|
It wouldve been cool if there was an event that had a Caesar or Hannibal type figure appear, named appropriately if youre playing a specific tag. In CK2 it was always cool to be able to get a Joan of Arc analogue during a protracted war.
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 03:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
Rody One Half posted:THAT'S A MOD? Paradox always have a fine line to tread with how much of history should repeat in their games. In general, for the titles spanning hundreds of years they don't railroad much after the start date nowadays. EU4 doesn't guarantee that Robespierre will guillotine Marie Antoinette in any way, unlike EU2 which tried to. Unmodded Imperator does in fact have an event that can spawn Hamilcar Barca and his sons as characters in Carthage. I don't believe Rome has one that gives you a Gaius Julius for a general, but the family exists and I think the name generator can make one. Imperator has plenty of issues, but I don't think that the choice to make a system where generals can get a little ambitious under the right circumstances rather than have the same guy take a walk over the Rubicon after playing for 250 years in every game is bad in principle.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
hashashash posted:huh, in that case I think one of the mods I've been using (the one that brings in historical characters like Caesar and Hannibal) actually made Rome much stronger, because it adds an event chain for Rome to become an empire and makes it impossible for them to do so any other way lol we were playing with a romaboo mod.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
1stGear posted:The game starts in 304 BC while Hannibal and Caesar were born in 247 and 100 BC respectively. None of the Paradox games force historical events to happen or people to exist (except for broad stuff like the Black Plague or whatever). I assumed it had multiple start dates that might include them, as you DO see in other Paradox games. I guess that might have been on the dev timeline at some point before the game was killed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2023 08:02
|
|
 Part 7 — Third Punic War — 85 BCE to 25 BCE For ten days and nights, a flaming star streaked across the skies above the Mediterranean. In more distant places, they would interpret the comet as the dawn of a new age, but in Rome and Carthage, it was taken as a fiery prophecy of death and destruction — and because it fell into the south, the citizens of Rome named it Carthago’s Doom… …but wars were not won by words alone. Just a few weeks after the declaration of war, the Roman fleet is met by Carthage’s enormous navy in the waters off Sardinia. Outnumbered and outwitted, the Romans were forced to make a hasty retreat.   Only to be pinned down again, within sight of Ostia — and this time, there is no escape. Utilising their superior numbers much more effectively, the Carthaginians sink or capture every single Roman ship, not a one surviving the bloodbath.   And with that, scarcely a month into the Third Punic War, Carthage had won the seas. The battles on land were a very different matter, however. The discipline of the Roman legion was infamous, their numbers were enough to blot out the sun, and almost any war they started was already a foregone conclusion… almost. There was one battlefield in which Carthage thoroughly outmatched Rome — wealth, sheer wealth that was immediately spent on recruiting the largest, fiercest mercenary companies in the Mediterranean, enough to reach an even footing against Rome.  So when the Sophet of Carthage, Ummashtart Gisgo, lands in Sicily in 83 BCE, he takes charge of an army numbering almost 200,000 — Punics, Numidians, Greeks, Libyans, Iberians, and many more, this constellation of peoples crosses into Italia to face the far more homogenous Roman legions. Small-scale battles are fought and won; nothing decisive, but enough for Carthage to besiege and capture the key fortresses of Magna Graecia.    There are no attempts to stabilise these occupations or pacify the countryside, however; Ummashtart knows that the enemy couldn’t be allowed the time to gather all their strength, and so he plunges northwards, towards the the heart of Italia — Roma.  The city is put to siege, but it very quickly becomes clear that the defenses of Roma have been redoubled since the sacking in the Second Punic War — siegeworks are raised, mines are dug, assaults are ordered, but the city manages to withstand it all for over a year. In fact, when the first true Roman army arrived to make battle in 80 BCE, the city was nowhere near capitulation. Faced with a choice between abandoning the siege, or facing the Romans in battle…  Ummashtart chooses the latter, and battle is met —  Whilst his 50,000 Carthaginians attempt to hold out against 50,000 Romans, the Sophet also sends summons to his outlying armies, ordering them to converge on the battle and reinforce his position. A clever ploy, had the Roman consul not intercepted these incoming reinforcements with armies of his own…    And though the Carthaginians managed to defeat the Romans at Circeii and Tibura, they would arrive too late to reinforce the more important battle at Roma…   Finding himself completely outmatched by Sulla’s tactics, Ummashtart loses more than half his army in a single disastrous day of fighting outside Roma. He is forced to flee the field with the survivors, and it is only the Punic navy — charged with patrolling the seas and safeguarding the straits — that stopped the Romans from pursuing him into Sicily, and so prevent a total collapse of the war effort. Nevertheless, the towns and fortresses captured by Carthage are promptly besieged and retaken over the next few months.   For this abject failure, the commanders in charge of the campaign are recalled and then crucified, and a new Sophet is elected — one Melqartshama Mago, a prominent landowner from the Magonid family.  At the same time, further west, the Barcids were all too eager to take the fight to their hated enemy. Led by Hiram Barca, nephew of Hannibal and grandson of Hamilcar, the Barcids crossed the River Iber in force…  …only to be thoroughly crushed by 115,000 Romans descending from the Pyrenees.    This defeat was quickly followed by another at Dianum three months later…   And a third at Epora a year after that…   Unable to cross into Sicily or Africa, it seems the Romans had let their legions loose on Iberia instead — and so, on the order of the Adirim, the Barcids are forced to abandon their hardwon conquests and transport their remaining strength to Sicily, where the new Sophet was preparing for another offensive into Italia.    Just before this offensive is launched, however, a party of legates arrived with an offer of peace — for Sicily, Corsica, and parts of Iberia, there might be peace between Rome and Carthage.  Melqartshama derisively rejects the offer, of course. In fact, to take advantage of the distracted Roman legions, his war plans are accelerated so that, with the beginnings of spring in 75 BCE, Carthage crosses the straits for the second time —  But there are Romans waiting on the other side, and this time, every step towards Roma is met with steel and drenched in blood… There are over 20,000 dead and wounded at Tempsa, the first battle of the campaign…   …followed by almost 60,000 in twin battles at Laus, just three weeks later…     …20,000 at Nuceria, 10,000 at Karmo, 17,000 at Petelia, 20,000 at Aternum…     …and another 35,000 dead or dying at Cannae…   But at long last, with the volcanic walls of Roma rising behind them, the wolf and the elephant clash in the battle that would surely settle the fate of the peninsula —    A crushing defeat.  Again, after six long years on campaign, the Carthaginians stumble at the very end — though in this case, it is the betrayal and defection of cowardly mercenaries that spells defeat and ruin. The Romans doggedly pursue the retreating Carthaginian forces, no doubt hoping to force another decisive battle, but they are again halted at the straits of Sicily.   Unsurprisingly, another (slightly more lenient) offer of peace follows…  …and is swiftly declined. The Romans might have the edge in battle, but they were also nearing bankruptcy, and every year that passed seemed to bring Carthage better odds, better terms. A number of commanders are executed and the Sophet was deposed, of course — this time, however, the Adirim turn to the Bodona family for his replacement.  The next few years are slow and tensive, with Baaliation Bodona preparing for another campaign whilst Rome dealt with barbarian incursions —     It is only in 62 BCE that the Sophet is prepared to launch his campaign — the legion was recovered, a new generation of levies are raised, larger mercenary companies are recruited. Over twenty years after the start of the Third Punic War, and Carthage fields an army of 125,000.  And when the Sophet leads them across the straits of Sicily, there are only 40,000 Romans waiting to meet him…    …and defeat him.  The first, and only battle of the campaign — and it cost Carthage thousands of shekels, tens of thousands of lives, a dozen commanders captured by the enemy, and a dead Sophet somewhere in the chaos of it all.     The effects are immediate, with Roman legates flooding across the sea with peace terms (some of which were downright reasonable) —     Several governors and colonies rising in rebellion against Qart Hadasht —      And rumours even began to spread about plots to overthrow the Republic —   To forestall the most immediate of these crises, the great lords of the Adirim elect Abbar Barca as Sophet, and grant him the powers of dictator.  Completely ignoring Roman overtures for peace, the newly-invested dictator immediately turns his attentions to the rebellious provinces — and because only a few hundred survivors returned from Italia, new mercenary companies are bought out to put the rebels down.       As though that wasn’t enough to deal with, however, he also had to tackle the outbreak of famine in Sicilia and the eruption of slave revolts in Numidia.   But all of them — famine, slaves, rebels— all were harshly suppressed by the dictator, who then set his sights on Rome.    Even so, it would take Carthage twelve years to recover from the catastrophe at Skaleton — twelve years during which he clung to his dictatorial powers, rejected Roman plea after plea for peace (whilst blockading all their major ports), and slowly but surely prepared for yet another foray into Italia. Until, at long last, he launched the fourth and final invasion of the peninsula — with almost 125,000 levies and mercenaries crossing the straits in the summer of 50 BCE.  The Sophet, however, remains in Carthage… rather than lead the armies himself, he appoints his cousin, Hiram Barca, to take charge of the campaign, which the general does by storming Rigon…  …and then waiting, for he knows full well that the Romans would be arriving soon enough. And indeed, within the month 30,000 legionnaires are stamping towards them, determined to deal another defeat to their perennial enemies…  But having learnt from previous disasters (his own defeats in Iberia), and together with the extensive military reform implemented by the Sophet over the preceding decade, Hiram manages to overwhelm the Romans and win the day.     A decisive victory, but Hiram does not immediately to follow up on it — instead, after receiving another 50,000 reinforcements from the Sophet, he opts to advance slowly, marching only a few miles a day and keeping his many armies in close communication, ever-watchful and ever-wary…    And as expected, the Romans are waiting to ambush his forces at the confluence of the Bucentius and Crathis rivers; Hiram springs the trap, and manages to coordinate his numbers so as to outmanoeuvre the Romans and defeat them in a summer of one-sided battles —         From there, Hiram begins to secure the roads and seize the key fortresses of Magna Graecia — but the Romans, knowing that the fall of Heraklea would open the road to Rome, rush to lift the siege with an immense army of 100,000…  They manage to pin the 65,000 Carthaginians besieging Heraklea, but Hiram quickly reinforces the battle with another 100,000 mercenaries and levies, and in a week-long contest that watered the battleground with blood and sweat and death, Carthage deals Rome a defeat she would not soon forget.  One year, three important victories, and all of Magna Graecia capitulates to Hiram — who is hailed as his grandfather reborn.    But still, he refuses to march on Roma. Not yet. Instead, wintering in the well-fortified town of Compsa, Hiram coordinates the ‘liberation’ of several Greek cities in the regions of Heraklea, Capua, Lucania and Marsa, so that when Carthage finally marches on Roma in the midst of 48 BCE, she does so with greater numbers than ever before — no less than 250,000 levies, mercenaries, auxiliaries and allies.   The Romans meet Hiram outside their sacred city with an army of hastily-conscripted citizens and slaves — a measly 50,000 boys and old men, thoroughly crushed by Carthage and her allies.   Roma is put to siege, but again, it holds out for a year…  Two, with the walls refusing to yield to man or machine…  Almost three years, with the garrison still stubbornly resisting despite the rank disease and starvation that was gnawing at them from within…  But eventually… Roma falls.   And she is shown no mercy. The city is brutally sacked, the senate house is burned to the ground, the riches of the Temple of Jupiter Maximus are plundered — but after five days of mayhem, Hiram summons his commanders and gathers his troops. The war is not yet over.        The peace terms that Hiram presents to Rome are very, very harsh — and so the fighting is dragged out for another seven years, as he campaigns into northern Italia, crushes the Romans in battles outside Pisae and Genua, captures their war-capitals at Aquileia and then Mediolanum, and threaten further invasions into Gaul and Germania… Only then, at long last, do the Romans kneel.  Victory. Three wars across three centuries, battles on land and sea, sackings and massacres aplenty, victory and defeat in equal measure, ruin and glory to wolf and elephant, but finally, finally, having brought her most treasured strengths — ships, money, and time — to bear against her most formidable enemy, Carthage is… victorious. The Third Punic War is over. Rome is conquered.  Nor would this hard-won victory be a temporary one — while the republic still survived in Gaul and Germania, further conflict would follow between Rome and Carthage; nothing on the scale of the Punic Wars, of course, with these instead being punitive campaigns to keep Rome subdued. And slowly, in the years and decades that followed, Rome would flounder and then fracture.  Rome one year after the conclusion of the Third Punic War.  Rome ten years after the conclusion of the Third Punic War.  Rome fifteen years after the conclusion of the Third Punic War. As for the city itself…  Roma is sacked, stripped, salted, so that nothing remains but her bones and memories.   And by the end of the century, it would become clear that only Carthage would reign in the West —  
hashashash fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Nov 10, 2023 |
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:03
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:20
|
|
|
Mercenaries, after all, can be replaced.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:22
|
|
|
Fuckin' finally, Roma Delenda Est
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:27
|
|
|
easy peasy lemon squeezy, now its time for a quick trip to alexandria and beyond to india
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:37
|
|
|
Always bet your money on Money.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:39
|
|
|
Props for overcoming a mod that was dedicated to how awesome and handsome Rome was.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 21:40
|
|
|
How many people died in that war? Millions?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 22:19
|
|
|
Holy poo poo. The IRL Punic wars were all very long, but this was *sixty years* of war. Genuinely wondered if you were gonna pull it off by the end. I guess in this timeline Carthage was somehow more suicidally resilient than Rome. Well done! Also, given the date, aren't we almost done with Imperator now? Or are you planning on going past the usually scheduled end date? It would make sense given that we still have centuries to go before ck3 begins.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 22:26
|
|
|
*Dusts off hands* Easy. As. That. Honestly I don't know why everyone else was having such a problem with these guys. All it took was an infinite amount of money and an ocean of blood and they went down like chumps. Easy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 22:34
|
|
|
Yes!! Eat poo poo rome!
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 22:41
|
|
|
 That looked like a slog, glad it's definitely over now. But our borders do need some cleaning
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 23:06
|
|
|
Asterite34 posted:Fuckin' finally, Roma Delenda Est No, better. Roma Deleta est. Not that it matters, since Latin isn't going to be that important a language.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 23:19
|
|
megane posted:How many people died in that war? Millions? in terms of in-game casualties, definitely well over a million yeah
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2023 23:51
|
|
|
God, I really thought we were hosed after that defeat at Skaleton, but we made it! I feel a little bad Rome was burned and salted, but, well, I guess they'd do the same to us. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:00
|
|
|
I have been working all day on two of the five papers I need to have finished in the next week and somehow reading this was still the most stressful part of my day.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:13
|
|
|
Sweet, we successfully defeated the empire that threatened to control the entire Mediterranean! Now we can control the entire Mediterranean! Hellioning fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jan 9, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:54
|
|
|
Next stop: the Levant 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 00:55
|
|
|
Jesus loving christ. I expected the ROmans to just pull out another army, another massive army from nowhere, but we did it. We loving did it somehow.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 01:48
|
|
|
Jesus, this was a long struggle. It took centuries of warfare and millions of lives, but at long last, Roma delenda est. Also, wouldn't these be the Roman Wars from our perspective? Luca_024 fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jan 9, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 02:17
|
|
|
There once was a dream. A dream to top Rome.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 02:46
|
|
|
Catharge reigns supreme, none will oppose us.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 03:04
|
|
|
Goddamn that was a mess. Should be smooth sailing from here though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 03:05
|
|
|
I feel like we need a : hist99 : emote to rub it in. Combo of  and 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 03:48
|
|
|
Lemniscate Blue posted:I feel like we need a : hist99 : emote to rub it in. Given the multiple Paradox alternate history LPs in this forum's history, it's amazing one wasn't commissioned years ago. Not to mention all the times people just throw out bullshit fake history facts trying to sound authoritative!
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 03:56
|
|
|
Lemniscate Blue posted:I feel like we need a : hist99 : emote to rub it in.  sic transit Gloria Estefan
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 04:39
|
|
|
megane posted:
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 04:48
|
|
|
megane posted:
Come on, shake your body baby Do that conquer
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 04:48
|
|
|
Well, now you have to deal with the aftermath. Millions dead, from across Spain all the way to Africa. Recovering from such depopulation will take centuries, if it ever happens at all.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 06:08
|
|
|
Well, that was a hell of a fight. But now Carthage is the uncontested ruler! Shame about burning the place down. I would have kept it as a trophy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 07:42
|
|
|
Yes! I was worried this LP was gonna turn into the aftermath of Rome beating us, but no.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 07:48
|
|
|
It got pretty close though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 12:33
|
|
|
So how high is the revolt risk in our new provinces?
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 13:40
|
|
|
In an interesting bit of synchronicity, today's Featured Article on Wikipedia is... the Third Punic War!
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 15:05
|
|
|
this isn't what i meant by loving rome 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 15:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 07:17 |
|
|
Goodbye Rome, hellloooooo etrusca 
|
|
#
?
Jan 9, 2023 15:54
|
|