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I think there's plenty of blame on system that both diminishes the value of human life, and enables wealthy and powerful companies to openly profit off of addiction.
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Jan 9, 2023 03:58
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:The opioid problems roots is pharmaceutical companies basically bribing doctors to prescribe as often as possible and Florida having basically no rules for prescriptions for a good decade. Opioid prescriptions are down ~45% from a decade ago and yet drug overdoses reach record-setting heights each year. Overprescribing doctors were a scapegoat, its about worsening material conditions.
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Jan 9, 2023 04:06
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So are we looking at 2 years of nothing happening but judges being confirmed or what?
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Jan 9, 2023 04:12
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pencilhands posted:So are we looking at 2 years of nothing happening but judges being confirmed or what?
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Jan 9, 2023 04:25
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes, except that in the summer we are staring down a default because it's unlikely that the GOP House will vote to pass a debt ceiling increase And the Republican's having the Commerce department finally determine how huge Hunter Biden's hog truly is.
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Jan 9, 2023 04:32
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FlamingLiberal posted:Yes, except that in the summer we are staring down a default because it's unlikely that the GOP House will vote to pass a debt ceiling increase Democrats and the least crazy Republicans will team up to force it through. There have got to be enough Republicans that still listen to capital to make it happen, it would only take a handful And unlike the Senate, the House does have the ability to defy the Speaker through discharge petitions
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Jan 9, 2023 06:09
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This xylazine is new to me and now I will probably start seeing it in the ER and Medicine wards. How horrible. It reminds me of when cocaine was being cut with Levamisole, a chemotherapy agent. Levamisole would cause some of the same nasal numbness, had the same consistency/color and taste as cocaine and back in the late 2000s I guess South America/Mexico had tons of the stuff laying around because it was a seldom used if not discontinued cancer drug. When I was a resident in Dallas we so a few patients who really got hosed up by the stuff. It causes horrible vasculitis. So when people are snorting coke cut with it their nose, maxillary sinuses, and face would literally necrose and eat itself off from the vasculitic inflammation. It was absolutely horrific. Literally people with a purplish necrotic burnt looking crater where their nose used to be.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:26
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haveblue posted:Democrats and the least crazy Republicans will team up to force it through. There have got to be enough Republicans that still listen to capital to make it happen, it would only take a handful The propsed rules will alow the Speaker and the HFC to refuse to present that bill. So, the sane GOP members would need to be willing to call a motion to vacate and overthrow McCarthy. Moreover, they would need to be willing to quickly vote for Jefferies or an already agreed upon with the Dems compromise candidate to be speaker. By the time those republicans agree that they need to do all those things it will probably be too late to do all those things in time.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:37
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Charlz Guybon posted:The propsed rules will alow the Speaker and the HFC to refuse to present that bill. So, the sane GOP members would need to be willing to call a motion to vacate and overthrow McCarthy. Moreover, they would need to be willing to quickly vote for Jefferies or an already agreed upon with the Dems compromise candidate to be speaker. McCarthy broke discharge petitions to become speaker? Lol
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Jan 9, 2023 06:39
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Charlz Guybon posted:The propsed rules will alow the Speaker and the HFC to refuse to present that bill. So, the sane GOP members would need to be willing to call a motion to vacate and overthrow McCarthy. Moreover, they would need to be willing to quickly vote for Jefferies or an already agreed upon with the Dems compromise candidate to be speaker. This also presupposes the continued existence of "sane" Republicans, which is a fallacy. They're all bonkers boyos at heart and the ones that don't have the guts to pull the trigger and shoot the hostage themselves will stand back and let the ones who do do it for them and then chuckle with nervously fulfilled delight after it's done like that pindicked chud dad from The Boys after Homelander just straight up murders another man in front of him.
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Jan 9, 2023 06:52
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Kavros posted:I generally feel like it runs both ways. Economic desperation is incredibly stressful and mentally toxic to most people, no matter how mentally 'strong,' and it creates the conditions for people to ease into substance abuse disorders just to try to get back any semblance of pleasure in their lives, especially when their families are running pretty close to the waterline. A fair number of people get into opioids for the first time because of chronic pain and health problems caused by working long hours at physically demanding lovely jobs and become increasingly dependent on them to get through the day because economic realities mean that they have to keep up the grind and can't cool down and let their bodies properly heal or seek alternative treatments. Some poor fucker lobbing boxes 10 hours a day at Amazon to make end's meet fucks up their knees and/or back, gets a script for tramadol from their doctor, and becomes basically unable to function without it because they literally can't afford to let their body properly heal so they just mask the pain endlessly while it gets worse and worse. Their doctor cuts their script back or their poo poo insurance stops covering it, they start seeking the fix elsewhere because they've come dependent.
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Jan 9, 2023 07:46
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nine-gear crow posted:This also presupposes the continued existence of "sane" Republicans, which is a fallacy. They're all bonkers boyos at heart and the ones that don't have the guts to pull the trigger and shoot the hostage themselves will stand back and let the ones who do do it for them and then chuckle with nervously fulfilled delight after it's done like that pindicked chud dad from The Boys after Homelander just straight up murders another man in front of him. It's also presupposing that Joe "I Long To Cut SS/Medicare" Biden and the Very Serious Business Liberals don't try and actually cut a deal instead of forcing a clean raise through.
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Jan 9, 2023 07:52
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Kanos posted:A fair number of people get into opioids for the first time because of chronic pain and health problems caused by working long hours at physically demanding lovely jobs and become increasingly dependent on them to get through the day because economic realities mean that they have to keep up the grind and can't cool down and let their bodies properly heal or seek alternative treatments. I don't know what is pushing the current epidemic but I can tell you with 100% certainty that during the height of the opioid crisis it was doctors and only doctors, not some economic hardship or "Poor people need to get high to avoid the realities of life" It was doctors wanting to make money off addicts, and doing everything in their power to create more addicts. I was in a car wreck. And walked into a Dr's office having never done drugs, taken a pill, or even been interested in doing so. Guy wrote me a prescription for Hydrocodone, and told me to come see him again in a month. So I did. It took a year before he got me an MRI to find out I had two herniated discs in my lower back. And when I showed him the MRI results he shrugged and told me to come back and see him next month for more pain pills. By then I was addicted through the balls to the things. At the end of my addiction cycle I was seeing 3 doctors a month, each of whom was writing me enough pain pills to last me a month, which i was going through weekly. None of them offered any treatment option for my back. I had trouble walking, could barely feel my right leg at times. Every doctor I saw just wrote me more pain medication and told me "See you in a month". At that point everybody I knew was addicted to them as well. You walked in a Dr's Office and told them any part of your body was hurting, you walked out with a prescription for hydrocodone.
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Jan 9, 2023 13:24
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Gyges posted:It's also presupposing that Joe "I Long To Cut SS/Medicare" Biden and the Very Serious Business Liberals don't try and actually cut a deal instead of forcing a clean raise through. Ah, yes, similar to when Obama agreed to cut the ACA back in 2013-2014 when he was resolving the debt ceiling/government shutdown. Those Democrats just love losing, I don't understand why! Kalit fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 14:53
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https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/01/09/dc-home-rule-kevin-mccarthy-budget-riders Knew this was gonna happen, makes me extra mad that the Dem-controlled Congress didn't go for DC statehood when they had the chance. DC always gets screwed in these situations. Andy Harris in particular has made loving with DC his pet project. quote:What happened: Two antagonists of hometown Washington — Andrew Clyde and Andy Harris — are part of the conservative House Freedom Caucus that humiliated McCarthy by dragging out his nomination for speaker. Youth Decay fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 16:39
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Always seemed pretty obvious, but for the people still holding out hope/thinking that Biden wouldn't run for re-election: https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1612239251768229888 Supposedly, they plan to make the State of the Union an unofficial campaign launch speech with the formal paperwork filing and announcement in April. The only "concrete" info on any changes is that they have apparently spent a lot of time and money figuring out ways to get on WhatsApp and TikTok to reach people (especially non-English speaking people) compared to 2020. The rest is pretty generic stuff about finding out what issues to focus on, which policies that they failed to achieve should be brought back, and what new ones should be added. They have spent weeks crafting the State of the Union to be a test run for announcing them, but haven't finished and the article has no info on what they are planning to focus on.
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Jan 9, 2023 16:41
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Youth Decay posted:https://www.axios.com/local/washington-dc/2023/01/09/dc-home-rule-kevin-mccarthy-budget-riders Knew what was gonna happen? The article doesn't actually say anything is happening. It just describes a hypothetical situation that could potentially happen.
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Jan 9, 2023 16:44
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General_Disturbed posted:I don't know what is pushing the current epidemic but I can tell you with 100% certainty that during the height of the opioid crisis it was doctors and only doctors, not some economic hardship or "Poor people need to get high to avoid the realities of life" It was doctors wanting to make money off addicts, and doing everything in their power to create more addicts. 1. We don't say "addict" anymore. You were not an addict, you had a use disorder. This might seem like a pointless distinction, but it's easy to subconsciously disregard someone who is just "an addict." The guilt and shame people feel about what they're doing, what they've done etc is a huge barrier to treatment, and it's generally the first thing I try to cut through. A person has tuberculosis; we don't call them consumptive. 2. Height? Height generally implies things are getting better. 3. People get prescribed opioids for different reasons, abuse them for different reasons, and become addicted to them for different reasons. You had a very bad experience with a pill mill doctor. Maybe what you mean is during the height of doctors spraying people down with pills, which has been curtailed substantially: it peaked in 2012. Now obviously there are connections between the pill mill epidemic and the rise in heroin/fentanyl overdoses, but heroin existed in the 90s. It was a problem then as well, but those people (for whatever reasons) were just disregarded as addicts and not worth worrying about. Or used as an example of a bad thing that would happen to someone if they smoked weed/went to a big city/etc Blaming doctors and only doctors is reflective of your personal experience, and it certainly identifies a contributing factor, but it is oversimplified and not reflective of the reality of the situation. Do you think that every person who became addicted to opiates saw a medical provider first? FizFashizzle fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 17:27
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Main Paineframe posted:Knew what was gonna happen? The article doesn't actually say anything is happening. It just describes a hypothetical situation that could potentially happen. The article and quote of said article establishes the precedent of Obama in 2011 shitcanning abortion in DC as a consequence of the acts that were permited to be done previously by the actors involved now. Presenting dry procedural tricks as if they have no consequences is poor reporting.
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Jan 9, 2023 17:45
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Not to give Biden and Senate Dems too much credit but it's a way different landscape now, 10 years later and abortion access being one of the top political issues.
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Jan 9, 2023 17:57
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Kalit posted:Ah, yes, similar to when Obama agreed to cut the ACA back in 2013-2014 when he was resolving the debt ceiling/government shutdown. Those Democrats just love losing, I don't understand why! I'm sorry, are you saying that Joe Biden, Democratic Leadership and every Democrat President since at least Carter haven't tried to bargain with the Republicans to cut SS and other entitlements? Because that's what I was talking about, not trying to get Obama to wreck up the accomplishment he's most proud of.
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Jan 9, 2023 17:59
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I've worked in pharmacy for 15 years, particularly specialty pharmacy and long-term care where I deal with a lot of patients who deal with both acute and chronic pain as well as their providers. I even did medical coding and billing for a hot minute when I was burned out on dispensing 20 to 30 meds per elderly patient. This issue is definitely more complicated than overprescribing by doctors. There are definitely providers out there guilty of this, but I've also directly read over medical notes where a use disorder presents itself this way: 1.) Patient has chronic pain, provider tries Tylenol, then ibuprofen, then Tylenol #3, and they all fail to work sufficiently. 2.) Patient is begrudgingly started on stronger opiates, either Tramadol or Norco after the above fails to manage pain. If it's pain on the 8-10 scale, Percocet or Morphine. 3.) The patient is on it for, let's say, a week. Often the provider doesn't have a say in this - at least in my little slice of Medicare/Medicaid patient care, there's something called "opiate naive" status where if a patient hasn't already received opiates in the last 60 days, they can only get a 7 day supply covered by insurance(there's exceptions, but only usually they're end of life/hospice care related). Since these patients are retired, they're not paying out of pocket so 7 days it is! 4.) Patient now has a higher threshold for what they consider relief from pain. Stubbed their toe? Regular Tylenol leaves too much discomfort, they now want to go straight back to complete relief. They begin to get more aggressive whenever pain management comes up on getting opioids. They start calling us after several more rounds given to them by the provider. 5.) After intervention, patient does not change behavior on drug seeking. It eventually evolves into an use disorder. Patient is eventually put on a rehab or recovery program if they have a good health plan. If not, they are simply taken off it with possibly Suboxone or Vivitrol prescribed to help them wean off. I rarely see a patient successfully weaned off. In elderly patients, they often have a bad fall or injury and wind up on them again for a lack of better options. In long-term care especially, where I work right now, providers are often yo-yoing between fear about the DEA taking their license due to prescribing for the wrong person at the wrong time, and patient grievances for their pain being mismanaged. In Medicare/Medicaid, grievances filed by patients can be a *big* deal for these practices. Too many grievances, and you're no longer in network for these patients. So, when the patient starts threatening a grievance for being denied opiates, providers often relent. I don't blame patients who develop use disorder, however I also don't blame overprescribing providers writ large for the whole of the issue. It's complicated, and honestly I think at the root of this is a plethora of things: not a wide enough spectrum of pain management options where we're at in medicine right now, the grievance system being divorced from consideration of use disorders, lack of good psychiatric care, and - this may be anecdotal, this last one - the lack of dignity in modern healthcare for the patient. Our elderly patients are often the most at risk for opioid use disorder, and they deal with insurance loving up their regimens on a daily basis. There's a certain degree of "you're on your own, you need to advocate for yourself" once their situation deviates further from how someone's medicine "should" be processed and dispensed, and it's infuriating to get caught up in that. They suddenly have to do dozens of phone calls a week for appointments, orders, specialists - the stress makes a drug that numbs and sedates you positively attractive in comparison to dealing with such a day to day reality. It's why I put up with them when they start yelling at the phone asking where their Norco is, unaware their provider refused to prescribe more yet. How they feel is valid. Often, the providers are doing their best, too. Sometimes these situations are a result of substandard care on a bureaucratic level or a result of social problems bigger than healthcare(I deal with elderly patients becoming homeless unexpectedly daily and, as you can imagine, that adds to their use disorders risks due to the added stress). Overprescribing is definitely a problem and I've seen that, as well, but let's not conflate all providers who prescribe opiates as part of the problem. That's how you get pharmacists refusing to fill legitimately needed scripts for opiates due to stereotypes about opiate use. We need to solve all of the attendant problems that lead to use disorders, one by one(providing social workers to the elderly consistently and also caretakers when they can't manage their own med compliance would be a big start).
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Jan 9, 2023 18:11
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FizFashizzle posted:1. We don't say "addict" anymore. You were not an addict, you had a use disorder. This might seem like a pointless distinction, but it's easy to subconsciously disregard someone who is just "an addict." The guilt and shame people feel about what they're doing, what they've done etc is a huge barrier to treatment, and it's generally the first thing I try to cut through. A person has tuberculosis; we don't call them consumptive. This is exactly how my brother died. I'm not an addict, I don't need treatment, I can handle it myself. Worked for a while until it didn't.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:48
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Zinkovich posted:This issue is definitely more complicated than overprescribing by doctors. There are definitely providers out there guilty of this, but I've also directly read over medical notes where a use disorder presents itself this way: Could someone who has comparable insight into pain management in other parts of the world chine in? In Asia Minor, I have observed relatives being prescribed small amounts of weaker opioids (tramadol, codeine) to deal with post-operative pain (stronger meds while in hospital). People who are dying can get fentanyl patches. Heroin addicts, in general, don't start this way in that country. Here are some excerpts from the opioid section of the UNODC World Report on Drugs 2022: quote:The non-medical use of pharmaceutical opioids began increasing in 1997, coinciding with an increase in prescriptions of opioids for pain management, particularly for chronic non-cancer-related pain management, and between that year and 2005, the number of such prescriptions surged more than 500 per cent.i quote:The availability of pharmaceutical opioids under international control for medical purposes more than doubled in the period 2000–2010 before declining by 15 per cent between 2012 and 2019 and remaining basically stable in 2020. The overall decline after 2012 was primarily driven by declines in North America, where, starting in 2010, state and federal government agencies tightened prescribing policy guidelines and monitoring. quote:Availability of pharmaceutical opioids continues to be highly unequal across regions and subregions quote:There are currently two main dynamically evolving non-medical opioid use epidemics in the world, both driven by the relatively high availability of opioids produced at low cost. One is related to illicitly produced fentanyls, which have been mixed with heroin and quote:The estimated prevalence of opioid use in North America is high in comparison with the global average, with an estimated 3.4 per cent of the population aged 15–64 years reporting past-year opioid use and 0.7 per cent reporting use of opiates in 2020. This translates to 11 million past-year opioid users and 2.4 million past-year users of opiates in the subregion. quote:The use of fentanyls has been reported by several countries, although, currently, there are no indications of an epidemic of non-medical use and its related health consequences outside of North America, where experience has shown that fentanyls (and other research or novel opioids) can spread rapidly. To me the opiate problem in North America, especially the US, seems exceptional in nature, and it looks to me that the proximate cause of its problem is overprescribing at a level that doesn't happen elsewhere. Are Americans less tolerant of pain than other peoples of the world? Why? quote:Fentanyls on the United States drugs market have been generally sold as “heroin”, identified as “fentanyl-adulterated or substituted heroin (FASH)”. I lost a cousin to FASH a year ago. My roommate’s brother has been miraculously hanging in there for decades of use; many of his friends are already dead. I'm getting tired of all the FASH in this country.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:58
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skylined! posted:This is exactly how my brother died. I'm not an addict, I don't need treatment, I can handle it myself. Worked for a while until it didn't. There's a flip side to this - stereotypes about addicts can prevent friends and family from seeing the signs of drug abuse. My sister was a successful mother of a special needs child, successful in her career, and an incredibly kind person all around. She died from buying opiates off the street laced with Fentanyl. The hardest part from me was looking back at all the signs I missed. She definitely was high functioning for all the drug abuse I learned she engaged in that I had no clue about. Then, there's post-use disorder pain management - what do you do when a patient who has recovered from opiate use years ago develops cancer that causes profound pain? Well, this might be a case where the compassionate thing to do is prescribe them again despite a prior diagnosis because the pain is too severe. We can't adopt the notion that someone is an addict by nature uncritically, it can be harmful. Hell, adopting the phrase "use disorders" doesn't imply they can handle it on their own. If anything, the opposite - people rarely overcome their disorders individually when it comes to the big ones.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:00
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I wouldn't worry too much about Xylazine. That's just the animal sedative of the hour, and I've never even seen it come up in a screen. Tianeptine is the REALLY hosed up one that's already burning through people. Go to any construction site and you'll see industrial sized trash bags full of empty bottles. You can buy that in stores and it is a straight shot to IV fent. mawarannahr posted:
No but when you turn spend thirty years transforming healthcare around a model where providers are heavily rated around customer experience you create a lot of perverse incentives. Part of the way HCA grades their providers, which ties into compensation, is by trawling all the various review sites for mentions and putting it into a formula. On the extreme end you have people getting dinged because a patient couldn't get a parking space, but on the more common you're going to get people who did not "have a good patient experience" and express this. Sometimes this is valid, sometimes it because the doctor did not believe they were allergic to everything "except the one that starts with the letter D." And then there's the kind of sociopaths who will give you a bad review on TripAdvisor.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:13
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mawarannahr posted:Are Americans less tolerant of pain than other peoples of the world? Why? Americans have a combination of a) big availability of opiates b) a push to prescribe them C) a terrible healthcare system
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Jan 9, 2023 19:17
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quote:Could someone who has comparable insight into pain management in other parts of the world chine in? I can at least speak for it in the U.S. I process a lot of end of life care, and for our patients Fentanyl prescriptions are rare. Usually, it's liquid or IV morphine for pain, liquid or IV lorazepam for anxiety, and atropine given orally for secretions. Probably due to the dosage form, solutions and IV administration is superior to patches as the dosage can be controlled better. I've only seen fentanyl prescribed outside of EOL care for constant, peak pain - think state 3 or 4 cancer. The majority of scripts in regular use for opioids I see are for Hydrocodone and Tramadol by a mile. It dwarfs all the others quite a bit. I specifically service elderly patients now, though, so I'll be curious as to what other people have to say. quote:Here are some excerpts from the opioid section of the UNODC World Report on Drugs 2022: There's a few reasons beyond simply overprescribing - which yes, is a legitimate problem: 1.) The big one - preventative care in the U.S. is poor. We screen less due to cost, we take less interventive steps, and conditions escalate more often leading to a higher incidence of chronic pain for a given condition. Here's a source - the US is often last or close to last in healthcare access among first world countries: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/fund-reports/2021/aug/mirror-mirror-2021-reflecting-poorly Untreated conditions mean a higher incidence of severe pain. 20 percent of US adults report chronic pain, and 8 percent report severe chronic pain(!!!). See here: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6736a2.htm - I don't know the numbers for other parts of the world, but that's definitely a higher percentage than it should be. The opioid problem has a lot of unacknowledged factors to it, and in the US healthcare access is definitely one. Sometimes folks are so afraid of healthcare bills here they will wait until they're 7 to 10 on the pain skill to come in for treatment. Of course that's going to contribute, as well, to more opiates being prescribed. 2.) Homelessness, stress, and lack of psychiatric care can lead to untreated use disorders. If you can't get help or a treatment program, your ability to wean off these meds is going to be hampered. 3.) Pain tolerance isn't exactly the issue if a patient is in severe pain due to runaway health problems left untreated by poor healthcare, and then develops dependency after their condition improves. The problem in these cases is the elephant in the room on the US opioid crisis: the number of people who can't afford to treat the conditions causing their pain. That discussion is definitely one many lobbies would like to avoid, because y'know, privatized healthcare. quote:I lost a cousin to FASH a year ago. My roommate’s brother has been miraculously hanging in there for decades of use; many of his friends are already dead. I'm getting tired of all the FASH in this country. I'm so sorry you went through that. Losing family and friends to addiction, I know the pain never quite goes away. I think limiting the prescribing of opioids and stopping there is a danger here in the US across the ocean in leaving the real problems out of sight, out of mind - we need to address substandard preventative care my country and increase healthcare access but we aren't doing anything to make it happen right now in a real way because many here know nothing about the differences in treatment between here and countries with universal access. It's sad and private healthcare and pharmaceutical companies are still the larger enemy in this scenario. Zinkovich fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 19:25
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Here is something that will probably be controversial. The American Academy of Pediatrics is now recommending that kids with weight problems be considered for new anti-obesity drugs as early as age 12 and bariatric surgery as early as age 13. Their study found that the eating habits of children rarely change once they become an adult and that early and aggressive anti-obesity treatment is the most effective method. According to the AAP, diet and exercise alone won't work for a small portion of people and a larger portion of people just can't/won't make the lifestyle adjustments required as an adult. That means that breaking the habits through drug or surgical intervention as a youth is the most effective technique. Some doctors, as mentioned in the article, are against this and worry it will shift people even further away from making lifestyle changes to reduce obesity. Additionally, they worry about the long-term impact of being dependent on surgery or drugs to maintain a healthy weight and that there isn't really a universal standard for determining who might need them versus who might be fine with other less serious interventions. https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1612460456647573504 quote:Consider drugs and surgery early for obesity in kids, new guidelines say: "Waiting doesn't work" Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 19:26
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...wasn't there just a study published that said that being "fat" produced no worse outcomes compared to being "skinny" after controlling for delayed diagnosis by doctors because the doctors told the paicents that their complaint was *because* they were fat and not cancer or whatever it ended up being.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:34
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Gyges posted:I'm sorry, are you saying that Joe Biden, Democratic Leadership and every Democrat President since at least Carter haven't tried to bargain with the Republicans to cut SS and other entitlements? Because that's what I was talking about, not trying to get Obama to wreck up the accomplishment he's most proud of. Your response was involved in the conversation that stemmed from FlamingLiberal talking about raising the debt ceiling while the Republicans were in control of the House. Which is exactly what Obama did without folding to a bunch of their demands and why I thought it was a relevant point.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:35
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Twincityhacker posted:...wasn't there just a study published that said that being "fat" produced no worse outcomes compared to being "skinny" after controlling for delayed diagnosis by doctors because the doctors told the paicents that their complaint was *because* they were fat and not cancer or whatever it ended up being. Was there? If there was, can you post it? I have seen some studies that say being 10-15 pounds overweight actually produced better health outcomes when suffering from a serious injury (because you had more excess fat to draw from), but I haven't seen anything that says that obesity has no impact on health outcomes. It would also help if we knew what definition of "fat" they were working with. Because being 15 pounds overweight is very different from being 200 pounds overweight.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:38
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Twincityhacker posted:...wasn't there just a study published that said that being "fat" produced no worse outcomes compared to being "skinny" after controlling for delayed diagnosis by doctors because the doctors told the paicents that their complaint was *because* they were fat and not cancer or whatever it ended up being. I thought it was if you were somewhat overweight it's fine but obesity comes with its own issues. I know BMI is being somewhat phased out too cause its just tries to put everyone in one box. I mean doctors are only looking at one slice of the pie here (er...so to speak), they are looking at the medical side so ok fine this is what they are recommending medically. The fact is our farm subsidies and lifestyle and lack of willingness to provide free healthy food at schools is going unaddressed. This is before we talk about how outmoded the school day is and we should probably allow for more outdoor physical activities for kids.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:40
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Twincityhacker posted:...wasn't there just a study published that said that being "fat" produced no worse outcomes compared to being "skinny" after controlling for delayed diagnosis by doctors because the doctors told the paicents that their complaint was *because* they were fat and not cancer or whatever it ended up being. Saving this one alongside the Atkins diet thread in case it goes places
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Jan 9, 2023 19:40
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Twincityhacker posted:...wasn't there just a study published that said that being "fat" produced no worse outcomes compared to being "skinny" after controlling for delayed diagnosis by doctors because the doctors told the paicents that their complaint was *because* they were fat and not cancer or whatever it ended up being. I feel like if you post stuff like this it behooves you to actually find that study rather than repeating the outcome you half remember with nothing to back it up.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:46
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Mooseontheloose posted:I thought it was if you were somewhat overweight it's fine but obesity comes with its own issues. I know BMI is being somewhat phased out too cause its just tries to put everyone in one box. In elementary school we had to fight for more recess time. We managed to get up to twenty minutes from 15. Fifteen minutes of recess a day. For kids 5-12 (they also only had 15 minutes to eat). And then they wonder why they can't sit still and act up and are overweight/obese.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:47
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Twincityhacker posted:...wasn't there just a study published that said that being "fat" produced no worse outcomes compared to being "skinny" after controlling for delayed diagnosis by doctors because the doctors told the paicents that their complaint was *because* they were fat and not cancer or whatever it ended up being. Considering that the primary comorbidity with Covid was being overweight, I'm highly skeptical that such a study exists in the way you're phrasing it. The higher risk in health outcomes is associated with high levels of intra-abdominal fat which is not necessarily directly correlated with how overweight someone "looks". I'm not even sure how you can control for what you're saying, as it's doctors telling chronically overweight patients that they are at risk for diseases if they don't lose weight, and then they in fact get diseases. Xombie fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 19:54
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Oracle posted:In elementary school we had to fight for more recess time. We managed to get up to twenty minutes from 15. Fifteen minutes of recess a day. For kids 5-12 (they also only had 15 minutes to eat). And then they wonder why they can't sit still and act up and are overweight/obese. There's no time in the school day for recess, gotta cram in as much prep work as possible for the myriad array of standardized tests that've been implemented over the last quarter-century due to declining academic performance, which is obviously all teachers' fault and not at all the fault of a lack of investment in education and the breakdown of supportive family and community structures in society writ large. Gotta keep the teachers accountable and the wallets of the psychometrics industry full, so playtime is over, Johnnie and Janie, start hittin' the books!
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Jan 9, 2023 19:58
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Judgy Fucker posted:There's no time in the school day for recess, gotta cram in as much prep work as possible for the myriad array of standardized tests that've been implemented over the last quarter-century due to declining academic performance, which is obviously all teachers' fault and not at all the fault of a lack of investment in education and the breakdown of supportive family and community structures in society writ large. Gotta keep the teachers accountable and the wallets of the psychometrics industry full, so playtime is over, Johnnie and Janie, start hittin' the books! The education system is in a horrible state because it's so frequently shat upon by those in power, largely ignored by the people who can buy their way out of it, and the things that teachers and admins on the ground do to keep the poo poo down to shoe level are awful. No wonder we have a bunch of students who are stressed out, not learning much of any use, and physically inactive.
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Jan 9, 2023 20:08
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Judgy Fucker posted:There's no time in the school day for recess, gotta cram in as much prep work as possible for the myriad array of standardized tests that've been implemented over the last quarter-century due to declining academic performance, which is obviously all teachers' fault and not at all the fault of a lack of investment in education and the breakdown of supportive family and community structures in society writ large. Gotta keep the teachers accountable and the wallets of the psychometrics industry full, so playtime is over, Johnnie and Janie, start hittin' the books! This seems so odd because getting regular exercise usually improves educational outcomes, so depriving kids of exercise is just going to hinder academic performance. As a kid who was very overweight at 12, and then got down to a healthy weight in high school, telling parents their kid should have surgery seems kind of crazy to me. The article does say this is for kids in the 95th percentile of BMI, and I don't remember what I would've been at that age. Just seems like there are other approaches we need to take to address obesity that don't revolve around drugs and surgery. Those solutions are societal though.
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Jan 9, 2023 20:10
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