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TV tropes uses the concepts you learn in such a course as a blunt sledgehammer for bad faith criticism rather than as a set of tools for analysis which is how they're intended. It reduces them to rules for a checklist as opposed to a form of guidance. Chekhov's gun can be a useful term and invoking it does not necessarily align yourself with TV tropes or cinemasins though, and implying it does is somewhat bad faith. It really depends on the substance of your complaint. I never saw Army of the Dead so can't say either way. It's all worth it for this though https://twitter.com/ShitpostGate/status/1612204636135366656?t=54aIHxea7ZoscbhH2UxhUg&s=19 Karloff fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 17:58
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At the beginning of the movie they walk through a massive crowd of dried out, immobile zombies. The coyote (as in people smuggler, not the animal) says "You should see them when it rains" and then it never rains.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:04
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I really hate internet critics that half understand some concept like Chekovs Gun or Death of the Author. No, it doesn't mean every piece of set dressing has to be important to the plot, it could just be set dressing, and Death of the Author does not mean you can say a work means whatever you want it to be. Or McGuffin, that one is often misread as being inherently bad. Wow what a lazy writer Tolkien is, making this magic ring the reason everything is happening!
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Jan 9, 2023 18:15
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Aphrodite posted:At the beginning of the movie they walk through a massive crowd of dried out, immobile zombies. The coyote (as in people smuggler, not the animal) says "You should see them when it rains" and then it never rains. This is what I was getting at yeah, idk why people are talking about TV tropes or Cinema Sins or whatever. That scene immediately sets up a "oh poo poo this is going to be awesome" scenario that it never comes back to and it's one of the only things I can remember about the movie.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:25
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I can sort of forgive the terminator zombies and stuff because that's sequel bait (even if it was done in an exceptionally bad way), but the dried out horde gets nuked so that's not coming back.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:28
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Chekhov's gun is not in sexy lingerie and giving me a lapdance. Ding.
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Jan 9, 2023 18:31
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Aphrodite posted:I can sort of forgive the terminator zombies and stuff because that's sequel bait (even if it was done in an exceptionally bad way), but the dried out horde gets nuked so that's not coming back. Army of the dead just threw a bunch of insane poo poo and never went back to it. The movie literally begins with the virus being carried out from Area 51 with UFOs in the background. Then you have the robot zombies. Then you have the time loop where the crew finds their own remains. Just batshit insanity start to finish.
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Jan 9, 2023 19:22
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Karloff posted:The cult of personality around certain directors is very much tied to their attachment to superhero films imo. Snyder is the most extreme example, but the only other filmmakers who come close to that level of fanbase is Nolan and Raimi. Super famous directors like Spielberg and Scorcese, though more celebrated widely, don't have a vociferous fanbase in the same way. Raimi’s cult comes from evil dead and his previous movies.
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Jan 9, 2023 21:58
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Don't get me wrong. He's maybe my favourite director - I'm not dissing Raimi fans because I am one. But when I have argued, strongly, about how awesome he is, the argument has normally been about the Spider-Man films (there are no internet slapfights about A Simple Plan). If you go to Raimimemes on reddit, it's all Spider-Man, very little Evil Dead. He was a beloved maker of cult films before Spider-Man, yes, but in terms of how the fanbase manifests in 2023, it very much feels like an outgrowth from superhero fans. Particularly those who grew up on his Spider-Man trilogy. In fact I'd argue the key to it is a filmmaker with a very distinctive authorial style combined with a superhero character. This ends up with a very devoted fanbase. That is true for Nolan, Snyder, and Raimi. Karloff fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 9, 2023 |
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Jan 9, 2023 22:56
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maybe it's just "comic book fans are obsessive"
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Jan 9, 2023 23:16
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Comic book fans are a tiny amount of people compared to comic book movie fans.
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Jan 9, 2023 23:48
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Army of the dead just threw a bunch of insane poo poo and never went back to it. The movie literally begins with the virus being carried out from Area 51 with UFOs in the background. Then you have the robot zombies. Then you have the time loop where the crew finds their own remains. Yeah. The movie is a ton of ideas thrown out there and not done anything with. I thought it was an ok enough spectacle on a first watch but once I actually started thinking about it I got annoyed and couldn’t get far into a second watch.
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Jan 10, 2023 02:17
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Army of the dead just threw a bunch of insane poo poo and never went back to it. The movie literally begins with the virus being carried out from Area 51 with UFOs in the background. Then you have the robot zombies. Then you have the time loop where the crew finds their own remains. ... You just fuckin' sold me on this movie better than any of the marketing did what the gently caress. All of this happens in the movie???
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Jan 10, 2023 02:33
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Vandar posted:... Yes, although the robot zombies are literally blink and you miss it and never addressed.
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Jan 10, 2023 02:38
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Lobok posted:And I've got at least five others through a combo of my library card, a VPN, and some passwords from American friends.  
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Jan 10, 2023 02:46
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Aphrodite posted:Yes, although the robot zombies are literally blink and you miss it and never addressed. Most of the ideas are. They’re all basically one random line or shot that’s never followed up on. So like don’t watch the movie to see all that weird stuff. The generous interpretation is they’re just there for flourish and the more cynical take would be that they’re there to feed speculation about things that the film didn’t actually do.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:06
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Snyder says the robots will be addressed in the anime, and the sequel is confirmed to be called Planet of the Dead which sounds like a time to bring in aliens fully to me. The time loop literally has a character saying "What if we're in a time loop?", although there's more subtle bits of it like the 3 AKs already in the vault.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:15
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I’m not denying the teases are in the movie. It’s just that there’s no followup or meat to any of them. They’re just passing mentions of “what the gently caress?” quick scenes. So like you can spend energy speculating about what they mean or how they could be paid off but Army of the Dead doesn’t do anything with them. It’s why I think the rain thing is such a common complaint. Because it’s the same basic problem but unlike the other stuff it’s not some weird side thing that could be a spin-off or something, it’s part of the actual zombie movie they made that just never gets followed up on.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:19
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Aphrodite posted:Snyder says the robots will be addressed in the anime, and the sequel is confirmed to be called Planet of the Dead which sounds like a time to bring in aliens fully to me. Cool I wonder what fascists and sex offenders he will cast for the next film.
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Jan 10, 2023 03:37
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Jamesman posted:Cool I wonder what fascists and sex offenders he will cast for the next film. Time loop means just all the same ones again!
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Jan 10, 2023 03:41
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I find the people who think The Dark Knight is the pinnical of all Superhero films and nothing will improve on it. They don't get evangelical about it, but they're still, a decade on, still pretend nothing has been better. The Doug Walkers of the world. I'm kind of at the point is they're the best of the "realistic" superhero movies, but I don't want Superhero movies to be realistic. Also, the Joker sucks, not because the performance is bad or anything, but that version has informed so many lovely peoples behavior its retroactively ruined it.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:13
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Jamesman posted:Cool I wonder what fascists and sex offenders he will cast for the next film. Didn't he replace some arsehole with Tig Notaro or do we just pretend that never happened now?
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Jan 10, 2023 04:15
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WfTEZJnv_8
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Jan 10, 2023 04:21
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This one feels like it gives a lot away, if you care about that. Good shot of MODOK in there, though
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Jan 10, 2023 04:25
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twistedmentat posted:I find the people who think The Dark Knight is the pinnical of all Superhero films and nothing will improve on it. They don't get evangelical about it, but they're still, a decade on, still pretend nothing has been better. I still like The Dark Knight but man I can't think of anything that's ruined a character and how other media has used them more than the Joker in that movie.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:26
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I don’t think you can post this in the Snyder thread
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Jan 10, 2023 04:29
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Jamesman posted:Cool I wonder what fascists and sex offenders he will cast for the next film. ????
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Jan 10, 2023 04:44
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D’Elia and Spicer.
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Jan 10, 2023 04:48
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Spicer was in it? Lmao
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Jan 10, 2023 04:59
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twistedmentat posted:I find the people who think The Dark Knight is the pinnical of all Superhero films and nothing will improve on it. They don't get evangelical about it, but they're still, a decade on, still pretend nothing has been better. I mean, I don't think anything really has been better to be honest. Spider-Man 2 maybe, though obviously that came out first. Spiderverse perhaps. But Dark Knight is still at the very top level imo. Not sure what is Doug Walker about that (though don't really know much about Doug Walker outside of that Dan Olsen Wall video).
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Jan 10, 2023 05:01
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Vandar posted:I still like The Dark Knight but man I can't think of anything that's ruined a character and how other media has used them more than the Joker in that movie. I dunno about this. While being extra creepy and having a hosed up look aren't exactly great add-on traits, Joker's biggest problem for the last... since Jason Todd died is the mixture off his willingness and ability to kill literally anyone, in ludicrous amounts, and his implausible level of competence and resilience. Him getting into tedious circular philosophical arguments with Batman isn't half as annoying to him, a a dude in clown makeup, somehow turning into the lynchpin to several apocalyptic scenarios
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Jan 10, 2023 05:43
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OnimaruXLR posted:I dunno about this. While being extra creepy and having a hosed up look aren't exactly great add-on traits, Joker's biggest problem for the last... since Jason Todd died is the mixture off his willingness and ability to kill literally anyone, in ludicrous amounts, and his implausible level of competence and resilience. Maybe this process started in the comics first but that's how he is in The Dark Knight too. The Dark Knight is basically structured so that Joker is a crime genie who can magically predict everything and everything works out perfectly for him until the very end, with the Boat scene. Because that was the only plan that depended on other people being evil to each other, which is why it fails. It's a good movie! But everything else just copies Super Terrorist Joker without the resolution to it.
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Jan 10, 2023 06:02
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mycot posted:Maybe this process started in the comics first but that's how he is in The Dark Knight too. The Dark Knight is basically structured so that Joker is a crime genie who can magically predict everything and everything works out perfectly for him until the very end, with the Boat scene. Because that was the only plan that depended on other people being evil to each other, which is why it fails. While I agree that comic book Joker has escalated to stupid heights where every thing now needs a body count in the thousands I wouldn't blame that on Dark Knight. In Batman 89 he racks up a huge body count too and the comic book stuff seems closer to the plans in 89 than the stuff he was pulling in DK.
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Jan 10, 2023 06:17
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TDK film also directly adapts many of its "master serial killer Joker" scenes from Gotham Central, which is generally regarded as an amazing comic book. But it's really one of those things where the depiction gets more and more worn, less and less interesting, with each subsequent take...and there have certainly been many, many subsequent takes 
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Jan 10, 2023 06:35
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This looks dope. I'm pretty excited for this. I am in for more Kang and more Jonathan Majors in general.
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Jan 10, 2023 07:49
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MODOK's face is weirding me out in the Ant-Man trailer. It just gives me a vibe of they took a picture of someone's face and just blew it up so my brain is telling me that it doesn't match with everything else in the shot. Also I was hoping for him to look way more hosed up. Like, Comic Book MODOK does not look like he's got a normal human head at all, which I think would work better for the effect here. The mask is the exaggerated design I'm looking for.
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Jan 10, 2023 08:00
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Army of the dead just threw a bunch of insane poo poo and never went back to it. The movie literally begins with the virus being carried out from Area 51 with UFOs in the background. Then you have the robot zombies. Then you have the time loop where the crew finds their own remains. Strange how it felt such a task to get through. Outside of the beginning few minutes it was such a dull, blurry movie.
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Jan 10, 2023 12:04
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Karloff posted:The cult of personality around certain directors is very much tied to their attachment to superhero films imo. Snyder is the most extreme example, but the only other filmmakers who come close to that level of fanbase is Nolan and Raimi. Super famous directors like Spielberg and Scorcese, though more celebrated widely, don't have a vociferous fanbase in the same way.
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Jan 10, 2023 13:59
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I do think that is certainly a dynamic. But in many ways that's more about a hatred of Marvel than a love for Scorcese. Scorcese's criticisms against Marvel, which were largely measured and thoughtful, is just used as a silly justification for film twitter types to scold people for watching superhero films and engage in old fashined elitism and shallow low art/high art distinctions. It's not like they're defending the Irishman or something.
Karloff fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 15:07
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achillesforever6 posted:I'd say outside of Spielberg, a lot of New Hollywood directors do have a cult of personality with film twitter, especially since Scorsese gave digs at MCU films not being real "cinema" whatever that means People are really emotional about their love for Tarantino.
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