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Sandwolf posted:Now why gently caress is that the case? X was the only way I had to fight this stupid loving wong-mystique-BP-Zola poo poo I have been getting slammed with. Wait I missed that too, what the gently caress lol
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Jan 10, 2023 20:42
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Sandwolf posted:Now why gently caress is that the case? X was the only way I had to fight this stupid loving wong-mystique-BP-Zola poo poo I have been getting slammed with. I mean, it's under Known Issues... so I should clearly play Dino Zola while I can 
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Jan 10, 2023 20:54
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Lol, they still don't even address the Vormir issues? I guess technically everything WORKS, but sure is annoying when both you and opponent play, like, a Wolverine or Bucky on it and it takes ages to finally resolve both.
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Jan 10, 2023 20:54
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I swear you do not draw into KM you either have him in your hand or you dont see him
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Jan 10, 2023 20:56
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lol guess I’m never gonna be a Pro. The patch notes were real and wow those buffs/nerfs are awful. It’s like they didn’t even consider the possibility of having to balance cards that don’t care about power or energy adjustments. It’s starting to feel like Second Dinner is way too small to handle a game on this scale.
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Jan 10, 2023 20:58
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No Wave posted:When your nut draw loses to a 60th percentile draw when is the right time to snap? What you have in hand isnt very relevant you have to a.) predict what the opponent is playing and b.) predict how many pieces your opponent drew. When you're playing the weaker deck your opponent is making much more educated bets and the shuri red skull player can just see shuri in hand and snap and take your cubes. Having a bad deck makes you worse at snapping because you do not have access to the most important information and your opponent does. I'm agreeing with you that Pool 2 decks can't realistically compete. They could make it, but so could a random selection of cards in a random string of games that goes on for long enough. Frankly, I'd bet more on the random batch of cards because matchmaking has got some things going on. I've won 4-8 cubes more often playing JunkThatNeedsToBeBoostedToUncommon.dec than is reasonable. Yes, snapping and retreating are important. But without a semblance of parity between players it can only do so much. I'm saying this all as someone who is in the mid 80s right now, CL2100 or so, and has hit Infinite the last 3 seasons. There are fundamental flaws at play and a lot of that is from the nature of game design intersecting monetization strategy.
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Jan 10, 2023 21:10
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Snap.fan's stats are a lot better now btw. They have a lot of data with a lot of filters that can be useful if you're willing to put in some effort to interpret them (I recommend the CL3000+, ranks 80-100 bucket because >100 is tiny at the moment). Sort by cube rate when drawn to find exciting new decks to climb with.
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Jan 10, 2023 21:10
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BGrifter posted:lol guess I’m never gonna be a Pro. I physically recoiled from this image. Legit. What the gently caress? They aren't even trying to obfuscate it. The audacity.
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Jan 10, 2023 21:13
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Should've called it 'Sucker Bundle'
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Jan 10, 2023 21:15
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BGrifter posted:lol guess I’m never gonna be a Pro. Sunspot bundle honestly looking like a great deal compared to the two this week
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Jan 10, 2023 21:19
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No Wave posted:When your nut draw loses to a 60th percentile draw when is the right time to snap? What you have in hand isnt very relevant you have to a.) predict what the opponent is playing and b.) predict how many pieces your opponent drew. When you're playing the weaker deck your opponent is making much more educated bets and the shuri red skull player can just see shuri in hand and snap and take your cubes. Having a bad deck makes you worse at snapping because you do not have access to the most important information and your opponent does. The concept you are talking about is true but the assumption that other decks' best possible draws lose to a Shuri list's 60th percentile is straight from your rear end. The data we have isn't great but if that was anywhere close to true, you would not expect to see Shuri/Red Skull averaging only 0.01 more cubes per game than KaZoo, within the 3000+ CL bracket.
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Jan 10, 2023 21:22
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Sandwolf posted:Sunspot bundle honestly looking like a great deal compared to the two this week Ironically, being able to buy bundles that include tokens with gold has destroyed all other gold sinks. Why would I buy 3 variants when I could buy a bundle that contains tokens, the only meta currency that can actually directly expand my collection?
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Jan 10, 2023 21:22
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Vanilla Bison posted:The concept you are talking about is true but the assumption that other decks' best possible draws lose to a Shuri list's 60th percentile is straight from your rear end. The data we have isn't great but if that was anywhere close to true, you would not expect to see Shuri/Red Skull averaging only 0.01 more cubes per game than KaZoo, within the 3000+ CL bracket. Pool 2 Kazoo, featuring notable Pool 2 cards Ultron and Patriot.
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Jan 10, 2023 21:25
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PJOmega posted:Pool 2 Kazoo, featuring notable Pool 2 cards Ultron and Patriot. ...yes, when people are CL 3000+, they are generally going to play their cards?
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Jan 10, 2023 21:29
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for whatever reason the argument was that a deck with only pool 2 cards would have a bad time against a deck running pool 3/4/5 cards I don't really follow the argument any more than that premise (especially since I think the matchmaking doesn't even work like that?) but w/e
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Jan 10, 2023 21:31
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Vanilla Bison posted:...yes, when people are CL 3000+, they are generally going to play their cards? They were talking about the vitality of p2 decks when they get to p3 and have to go against whales with Shuri. What point are you even trying to make?
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Jan 10, 2023 21:33
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flatluigi posted:I don't really follow the argument any more than that premise (especially since I think the matchmaking doesn't even work like that?) but w/e Matchmaking 100% does work this way, you can’t artificially put yourself in a new group by playing all P2 cards or w/e
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Jan 10, 2023 21:41
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haha hazmat go brr
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Jan 10, 2023 21:44
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Game you can't offer me Knull, I don't have 6000 tokens. I would love death to go with my Destroyer though. I can't figure out how to use him without her.
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Jan 10, 2023 21:46
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Push El Burrito posted:Game you can't offer me Knull, I don't have 6000 tokens. I would love death to go with my Destroyer though. I can't figure out how to use him without her.
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Jan 10, 2023 21:48
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flatluigi posted:for whatever reason the argument was that a deck with only pool 2 cards would have a bad time against a deck running pool 3/4/5 cards Bottom Liner posted:They were talking about the vitality of p2 decks when they get to p3 and have to go against whales with Shuri. What point are you even trying to make? I believe these things: 1. Having access to more cards improves your deck quality. The best deck with all of pool 5 available is going to be better than the best deck with all of pool 4 available, and so on. 2. The difference made by access to specific cards allows you to play archetypes at their highest level or not. If the best Zabu list is Darkhawk, not having Darkhawk materially affects your win/cube rate if you're trying to run Zabu. 3. The magnitude of the difference from these effects is grossly overstated by a player base pissed off that the monetization strategy means they have to wait a long time or shell out outrageous amounts of money to play with new cards. 4. Player skill, particularly snaps and retreats, is a far larger factor in making Infinite than the particular decklist (making some basic assumptions about a reasonably functional list instead of a pile of garbage). I think this will become increasingly obvious over time as the bulk of the player base fills out their collections but only a small proportion continues to make Infinite. 5. Accordingly, a top level player can make Infinite with an extremely "budget" list. Limiting to only pool 2 would probably make it doable but grindy, having 1 or 2 key cards from pool 3 would not be far off from their performance with an unlimited collection. Vanilla Bison fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 21:50
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finally got the chance to read the patch notes myself and I think the person who was frustrated at 'Arnim Zola’s copied cards can be added to locations locked by Professor X.' might have missed that it was under 'known issues' and isn't intended new behavior
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Jan 10, 2023 21:53
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flatluigi posted:finally got the chance to read the patch notes myself and I think the person who was frustrated at 'Arnim Zola’s copied cards can be added to locations locked by Professor X.' might have missed that it was under 'known issues' and isn't intended new behavior Correct!
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Jan 10, 2023 21:58
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Vanilla Bison posted:I believe these things: The main factor to making it to infinite, as in most games like this, is having enough time to grind it out. At a respectable average of +0.5 cubes per game, ranking back to infinite from infinite in the previous season would take ~560 games. That's about 16 games a day (at least an hour of play), every day, for the entire season. Even longer if you're not starting from rank 70. Vulpes fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 22:01
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Vanilla Bison posted:3. The magnitude of the difference from these effects is grossly overstated by a player base pissed off that the monetization strategy means they have to wait a long time or shell out outrageous amounts of money to play with new cards. We have stats that prove all of this wrong but sure you can keep believing it. Hint: there's no amount of player skill that can replicate card stats, effects, on reveal triggers, or ongoing effects you're missing in your deck that as you say, is materially worse than the meta decks. You can still win cubes with a p2 deck and slowly work your way to Infinite (but maybe not even in the time frame of a season) simply because other players might retreat because they didn't draw their win cons, that doesn't mean you are more skilled or the game is more balanced than perceived. That meta currency (that again, means nothing) is not part of balance of the gameplay, cards, or decks. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 22:09
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Bottom Liner posted:We have stats that prove all of this wrong but sure you can keep believing it. No one's saying it isn't easier to rank up with certain cards. The argument is that player skill can, to a certain extent, compensate for a less effective deck. The entire game boils down to cubes over time, there is no other metric. All parts of the game factor into it. Good play can offset bad cards. The amount that it can do so is extremely difficult to measure since we only have generalized statistics.
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Jan 10, 2023 22:15
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I am trying to destroy the mythology of brain genius CL3000 gamers smoothly climbing to infinite with a pool 2 only dino deck. It doesnt happen.
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Jan 10, 2023 22:17
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Bottom Liner posted:We have stats that prove all of this wrong but sure you can keep believing it Cool, link them and let's see the argument. The 3000+ CL filtered Snap.fan stats I linked seem to support that the gaps between decks in the highest brackets are not large, and pool 3 only decks like Dino, KaZoo, and Leech Leader are doing just fine.
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Jan 10, 2023 22:18
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It's incredible that they made one of the most approachable and casual games all about a ranked currency that means nothing and players think that matters more than the actual card game. Cubes and snapping is a cool idea, but in a best of one system they are meaningless other than for players to feel like they are making progression outside the games. If they ever get around to implementing the best of 3/first to 10 cubes competitive mode it will be a much better system. But until then, no, I don't think cube gain is an insightful metric to discuss card balance.
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Jan 10, 2023 22:19
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Vanilla Bison posted:Cool, link them and let's see the argument. The 3000+ CL filtered Snap.fan stats I linked seem to support that the gaps between decks in the highest brackets are not large, and pool 3 only decks like Dino, KaZoo, and Leech Leader are doing just fine. That is a massive goalpost move. "Pool 3 only decks" that require like 2500+ CL to have a reasonable shot at completing is the same problem we're talking about with 4/5 cards. I'm 1700 and couldn't complete a single one of those decks if I hadn't bought Silver Surfer season. The gap of "complete 3 but no 4/5 cards" is indeed smaller than the gap of "normal players that are early in p3 and have poo poo choices" vs "complete 3/4/5" players. \/ Yeah knowing when to snap on a guaranteed win, a gamble, or if you should retreat is the easiest heuristic to learn in this game if you care about rank. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 22:21
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Bottom Liner posted:It's incredible that they made one of the most approachable and casual games all about a ranked currency that means nothing and players think that matters more than the actual card game. Cubes and snapping is a cool idea, but in a best of one system they are meaningless other than for players to feel like they are making progression outside the games. If they ever get around to implementing the best of 3/first to 10 cubes competitive mode it will be a much better system. But until then, no, I don't think cube gain is an insightful metric to discuss card balance. It’s one of my favorite things about Snap. The Snap button makes some players write elaborate fan fiction about how cool and smart they are for snapping/retreating/whatever. Most of the time you’re playing bots, children, or drunk people halfheartedly poking their phones. It’s not the final table at the World Series of Poker.
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Jan 10, 2023 22:23
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The snap.fan 3000+ CL rank 80-100 stats for a recent patch show me that "shuri clone" (a deck with zero nerfs) has 2x the cube rate of "leech leader" (a deck with 2 nerfs). These numbers arent gospel the deck section is super fuzzy I mostly enjoy them for shitposting. But its about what I was expecting.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 22:32
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Push El Burrito posted:Game you can't offer me Knull, I don't have 6000 tokens. I would love death to go with my Destroyer though. I can't figure out how to use him without her. Standard run of the mill destroyer deck doesn't use death. # (1) Ant Man # (2) Armor # (2) Colossus # (3) Mister Fantastic # (3) Captain America # (3) Cosmo # (4) Warpath # (5) Iron Man # (5) Professor X # (5) Klaw # (6) Spectrum # (6) Destroyer # eyJDYXJkcyI6W3siQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ29zbW8ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkFudE1hbiJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQXJtb3IifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IkNvbG9zc3VzIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJNckZhbnRhc3RpYyJ9LHsiQ2FyZERlZklkIjoiQ2FwdGFpbkFtZXJpY2EifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IldhcnBhdGgifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6Iklyb25NYW4ifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlByb2Zlc3NvclgifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IlNwZWN0cnVtIn0seyJDYXJkRGVmSWQiOiJEZXN0cm95ZXIifSx7IkNhcmREZWZJZCI6IktsYXcifV19 # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and paste it from the deck editing menu in Snap. Can swap out Klaw, Mister Fantastic, Prof X maybe others. Gameplan is the same, an armored lane and the destroyer lane. Or, use Spectrum for a totally different win condition (ongoing). Kaddish fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 22:38
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Opponent snapped and played Aero in Deaths Domain I am quite pleased
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Jan 10, 2023 22:39
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OK help me out guys. I keep seeing Surfer is favored against Leader but thats my main deck and as youve deduced from my whining I do not beat leader. What am I doing wrong. Obviously you can not literally see what im playing but what sequencing am I supposed to be using to not get hosed? The decks are varied enough to where Ice-Man/Scorp, Maximus etc arent that much of a tell. Hell ive played that combo in this very surfer deck I have been switching to surfer on 5 when I see white queen but thats it
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Jan 10, 2023 22:52
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Surfer technically beats leader but not his best friend leech. If thats what you mean. If leader copies your surfer it should be giving you more points than the opponent, but you also just plain lose to leech.
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Jan 10, 2023 22:58
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the_american_dream posted:OK help me out guys. I keep seeing Surfer is favored against Leader but thats my main deck and as youve deduced from my whining I do not beat leader. What am I doing wrong. Obviously you can not literally see what im playing but what sequencing am I supposed to be using to not get hosed? You goal is to be even to ahead on 5 and then on 6 you play a 0/3 that benefits your side of the board more than theirs because you have more 3 cost cards than they do. If you are worried about Leech/Leader then yeah play surfer on 5. But now you must be ahead going into 6 because they are going to Mirror you +3 stats on 6. But, you just played a bunch of stats on 5 and they played 3 stats. If you have not managed this, you retreat. If you are a Sera surfer deck, probably do not wait until 6 to play Brood because they really benefit from that. Something else you can be on the lookout for is where can you play on 6 that they can't benefit from, like can you play Brood on 6 into a lane where they already have 2-3 cards? You are also trying to get things like Bishop/Angela down before 6 so that it can grow on the last turn but they can't. doingitwrong fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jan 10, 2023 |
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Jan 10, 2023 23:14
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 Next two bundles were leaked, if anyone is pooling gold for the next bundle. The other bundle actually seems like a decent deal? Maybe? Probably worth $5
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Jan 10, 2023 23:16
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Sandwolf posted:
Nice of them to stop including Collector tokens in gold bundles after doing it once before F2P players could save up 6000 gold. The developers might be nice people but whoever’s running their monetisation is a oval office.
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Jan 10, 2023 23:22
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Sandwolf posted:
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Jan 10, 2023 23:24
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