|
Main Paineframe posted:The people who'll have their lives made worse by ChatGPT'd legal arguments won't be judges and lawyers, it'll be poor people hoping for cheap legal advice. Automation of this stuff is already hurting them and will never help them. That aspect isn't changing no matter what.
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 22:52
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:52 |
|
|
PT6A posted:Instead of wondering if it could replace skilled professionals, the real question is, in my opinion, can AI aid skilled professionals? It can definitely aid professionals. It can clear out a lot of the early work needed in writing up something that simply needs editing and corrections after, which tend to take far less time than writing the whole drat thing in the first place. The problem lies in, "okay, then what?" because if you're a professional billed hourly, then you're outputting more but not necessarily making more. If you're a professional paid on salary, you might not see a salary boost with increased output, and/or others are let go to keep the few editors needed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 23:03
|
|
|
JIhad. Butlerian.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 23:10
|
|
|
Tech advances will regularly push people out and that's fine when we properly account and plan for it. The end goal of this stuff should be that people need to work fewer and fewer hours while keeping the same or a better QOL. Granted, that isn't how the real world has gone, especially in the US ever since Reagan got into office and productivity:wage ratios went to poo poo.Boris Galerkin posted:I was curious about the actual route of this tunnel and lol It's peak techbro bullshit and truly amazing. Exactly the kind of genius I'd expect from the company that wanted to do this poo poo in Miami, a city that's going to pull an Atlantis over the coming decades and sits atop extremely porous limestone. Main Paineframe posted:The people who'll have their lives made worse by ChatGPT'd legal arguments won't be judges and lawyers, it'll be poor people hoping for cheap legal advice. You have the right to an attorney, nobody ever said it had to be a person and not just an AI giving you "advice"  PDs would probably love the ability to punch their excessive workload into a system and have an AI churn out a rough draft for them to read over for a client's case though. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jan 10, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 23:17
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Exactly the kind of genius I'd expect from the company that wanted to do this poo poo in Miami, a city that's going to pull an Atlantis over the coming decades and sits atop extremely porous limestone. Not only is limestone porous, it also easily dissolves in acid. And one of the many consequences of increased CO2 in the atmosphere is ocean acidification.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2023 23:24
|
|
|
Epic High Five posted:Godspeed I say, if the courts don't like it they should ban it. This is banned, has been for decades. That's why it's so funny that those startups don't do the bare minimum of research
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 00:09
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Instead of wondering if it could replace skilled professionals, the real question is, in my opinion, can AI aid skilled professionals? Is it decent enough that, for example, a lawyer could merely look over its arguments and correct certain aspects with their professional expertise and judgement? Could it access an amount of case law that a human would have trouble being familiar with? Probably. That sounds like a really useful tool. I don't think it's going to replace a lawyer, but it sounds like it could really help a lawyer do their job more effectively and with less effort and time involved. If one person works three times as efficiently, then two people are losing their jobs. It's not as different of a scenario as you're imagining. AI-assisted legal search engines definitely make sense, but you'd still have to actually go and read all the cases it cites just in case it's getting them rear end-backwards, though. Edit: Human lawyers are already pretty bad about skimming cases and extracting quotes that sound good out of context, so I can only imagine AI will be worse. Clarste fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jan 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 00:14
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:Jihad, Butlerian, hot.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
Call 1-800-WESTLAW and ask them when they're investing in it. That's when you'll know it's real for legal research. Actually LexisNexis would probably buy it first.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
Clarste posted:If one person works three times as efficiently, then two people are losing their jobs. It's not as different of a scenario as you're imagining. AI-assisted legal search engines definitely make sense, but you'd still have to actually go and read all the cases it cites just in case it's getting them rear end-backwards, though. I agree with most of your points, but I would point out that in certain cases -- public defenders come to mind -- two people aren't getting fired, because they weren't there to begin with and you had one over-worked sod who was cutting corners to begin with. If this lets corners be cut with less consequence, it's a net good. HelloSailorSign posted:It can definitely aid professionals. It can clear out a lot of the early work needed in writing up something that simply needs editing and corrections after, which tend to take far less time than writing the whole drat thing in the first place. The problem lies in, "okay, then what?" because if you're a professional billed hourly, then you're outputting more but not necessarily making more. If you're a professional paid on salary, you might not see a salary boost with increased output, and/or others are let go to keep the few editors needed. This problem already exists to a point. If you are more efficient in getting the same product when getting paid by the hour, you lose money. I agree it's an issue, but it's not particularly novel. So you either raise your rates or pad your hours. Evil Fluffy posted:Tech advances will regularly push people out and that's fine when we properly account and plan for it. The end goal of this stuff should be that people need to work fewer and fewer hours while keeping the same or a better QOL. Granted, that isn't how the real world has gone, especially in the US ever since Reagan got into office and productivity:wage ratios went to poo poo. You're absolutely right. If you look at airlines in the mid-20th century, you had three people on the flight deck to deal with the workload. We don't anymore, outside some very niche operations using older airplanes. The need for a flight engineer is gone now. And, while I'm sure it seemed really hosed up at the time, it's not spelled doom for labour in the industry, because as it turns out, reducing labour costs makes smaller planes and thinner routes economical, and you have as many or more people working as a result. Another example is the automated ordering at McDonald's. Everyone said "well, that's putting cashiers out of work!" and it totally did, but it created a need for more labour in the back of house. Exactly as you say, it's no problem if you plan and account for it. The goal should be the most productivity with the least work. The issue is that it's used as an excuse to gently caress over labour and pay them less. That's the problem, and that's what needs solving.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 00:48
|
|
|
Boris Galerkin posted:I was curious about the actual route of this tunnel and lol Pretty sweet time we live in when the richest man in the world can invent a really expensive way for us to avoid doing a bare minimum of exercise. What a visionary.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 02:05
|
|
|
i mean, i get no one wants to walk .1 miles when it's 120F, sure. but there's got to be a better solution than having loving teslas drive you through tunnels.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 02:07
|
|
|
BiggerBoat posted:Pretty sweet time we live in when the richest man in the world can invent a really expensive way for us to avoid doing a bare minimum of exercise. What a visionary. You gotta hand it to him, it's incredibly American to have a single-seat rail tunnel connect two ends of a building.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 02:08
|
|
|
cinci zoo sniper posted:You gotta hand it to him, it's incredibly American to have a single-seat rail tunnel connect two ends of a building. Not nearly enough guns. Can the tesla drivers all be armed? And also there's another gun next to the passenger seat that you can rent via microtransaction?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 02:47
|
|
|
abelwingnut posted:i mean, i get no one wants to walk .1 miles when it's 120F, sure. but there's got to be a better solution than having loving teslas drive you through tunnels. The better solution is walking inside the air conditioned building, which you could do before this tunnel got built.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 02:51
|
|
|
musky didnt even achieve his goal of not having to seat with strangers/poor. the teslas still need a human driver that isnt dressed to the nines like supa butler Enrique, you have to group up with other people because it turns out it isnt economical just to transport one person + one driver.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 02:57
|
|
|
Imagine building a tunnel like this and not completely monetizing it with advertising on the tunnel walls. Capitalism is dead.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 03:07
|
|
|
Vegetable posted:Imagine building a tunnel like this and not completely monetizing it with advertising on the tunnel walls. Capitalism is dead. What if a European takes it and then you have to bore out and replace the concrete due to GDPR, because you're an American tech bro who doesn't understand it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 03:18
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Instead of wondering if it could replace skilled professionals, the real question is, in my opinion, can AI aid skilled professionals? Is it decent enough that, for example, a lawyer could merely look over its arguments and correct certain aspects with their professional expertise and judgement? Could it access an amount of case law that a human would have trouble being familiar with? Probably. That sounds like a really useful tool. I don't think it's going to replace a lawyer, but it sounds like it could really help a lawyer do their job more effectively and with less effort and time involved. We already automated away the actual effort, decades ago. For example, lawyers used to have to physically go to law libraries and search the shelves for relevant journals and cases (or, more likely, send a clerk or paralegal to do it for them). Nowadays, they can do it themselves from the comfort of their own office, using online legal databases and search engines. The effort of actually looking has mostly been automated away, and what's left is the creative work of knowing exactly what to search for and how to evaluate the information that comes back. It's high-skill knowledge work. Replacing "using your skills and knowledge to craft a legal argument" with "proofread our chatbot's output for legal mistakes" isn't automating away drudgery, it's creating drudgery. It means giving the actual creative elements of the work to the AI, and reducing the human role to that of a quality-control checker. Aircraft autopilots are not a great example of the benefits of AI, because they've actually caused all sorts of problems in the cockpit. Part of it is the same thing we see with self-driving cars: the human operator who's there to watch the machine for mistakes inevitably becomes prone to boredom or distraction, and is unable to effectively respond to issues if they actually occur. You're not just automating away busywork, you're automating away the human's need to pay attention. And that's even more important in airplanes where situational awareness requires more than just looking out the window. Plenty of aircraft disasters have happened because the pilot failed to understand what the autopilot was doing (whether due to pilot error or due to design/technical issues). At the same time, automation technology is being used by airlines as an excuse to cut pilot staffing and pilot training. Increasingly automated cockpits eliminated the flight engineer from the cockpit crew, and now airlines are arguing for getting rid of the co-pilot and reducing training requirements. Regardless, the bigger risk with ChatGPT right now isn't job losses - it's the fact that it will write things that are factually wrong because information doesn't actually mean anything to it. It's just putting words together based on how often people use those words together. It does not make any attempt to make sure it writes things that are actually true, it just tries to write stuff that looks vaguely plausible. It's a glorified autocomplete algorithm. Good enough for churning out marketing copy or class essays, but not when someone's life is at stake.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 03:33
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:Aircraft autopilots are not a great example of the benefits of AI, because they've actually caused all sorts of problems in the cockpit. Part of it is the same thing we see with self-driving cars: the human operator who's there to watch the machine for mistakes inevitably becomes prone to boredom or distraction, and is unable to effectively respond to issues if they actually occur. You're not just automating away busywork, you're automating away the human's need to pay attention. And that's even more important in airplanes where situational awareness requires more than just looking out the window. Plenty of aircraft disasters have happened because the pilot failed to understand what the autopilot was doing (whether due to pilot error or due to design/technical issues). At the same time, automation technology is being used by airlines as an excuse to cut pilot staffing and pilot training. Increasingly automated cockpits eliminated the flight engineer from the cockpit crew, and now airlines are arguing for getting rid of the co-pilot and reducing training requirements. Well, you're not wrong on this, but I can't say you're entirely correct either. Improper use of automation is absolutely a huge issue, and it comes from improper training standards which treat automation as a replacement for pilot proficiency, rather than another means by which the pilot uses their skill and judgement to control the aircraft. A large portion of this comes from the fact that a lot of training is conducted in simulators, where autopilots Always Work in the absence of a planned failure, as opposed to the real world where autopilots do need supervision because occasionally they will do incomprehensible things and try to kill you. It's still better to keep a close eye on them than fly by hand for hours on end. Regardless of the desire of airlines to move to one-pilot flight decks, I don't think it will happen any time soon. Even if the pilot monitoring isn't doing a whole lot at any given time, their ability to identify threats and trap errors cannot be understated, and the presence of a second person during emergency situations is very valuable. I suspect the FAA will look at those proposal and tell the airlines to pound sand. Mind you, I would also point out that the current pilot shortage is artificial in nature, and the current experience requirements (importantly, not training requirements) for first officers in the USA are broadly out of line with the requirements of Transport Canada and EASA for no particularly good reason. I think the retirement age for transport-category operations may go up, and I don't think it represents a threat to aviation safety given the strict medical standards that already exist, and further requirements that could be put in place (note that many pilots above the [Canadian standards here, I can't recall what the FAA equivalent is] retirement age for 705 ops do continue to fly safely for many years).
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 04:47
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Instead of wondering if it could replace skilled professionals, the real question is, in my opinion, can AI aid skilled professionals? Is it decent enough that, for example, a lawyer could merely look over its arguments and correct certain aspects with their professional expertise and judgement? Could it access an amount of case law that a human would have trouble being familiar with? Probably. That sounds like a really useful tool. I don't think it's going to replace a lawyer, but it sounds like it could really help a lawyer do their job more effectively and with less effort and time involved. PT6A posted:Mind you, I would also point out that the current pilot shortage is artificial in nature, and the current experience requirements (importantly, not training requirements) for first officers in the USA are broadly out of line with the requirements of Transport Canada and EASA for no particularly good reason. edit with context about FAA rules: In addition to a commercial license, you are required to have >=1500 total flight hours before you can be a copilot on a commercial passenger airliner. In practice, this means that if you don't have those hours from the military, you go twiddle around in a light general aviation plane for a few years after you finish schooling (because those hours don't need to be multiengine, IFR, involve big airports, or really have much to do with flying commercially) before you are hirable by an airline Foxfire_ fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 05:27
|
|
|
Riven posted:The better solution is walking inside the air conditioned building, which you could do before this tunnel got built. There are two kinds of people in this world. Those with Teslas, and those who get driven over. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 07:31
|
|
|
Main Paineframe posted:We already automated away the actual effort, decades ago. For the industry I am familiar with, I'm not aware of central repository of knowledge, which is a real problem given the ever-expanding volume of information out there and often stuck in some real dogshit websites. This doesn't mean that the AI can be trusted to provide correct results from an initial search, but I've witnessed a lot of areas where there's a big gap between "I need to find something" and "evaluate what I have found", where getting to evaluation is a tremendous hurdle, while the evaluation itself is much more manageable. I cannot stress how much time and energy could be saved if I could instantly and cleanly search and compile every english-speaking government website (and non-english assuming the AI doesn't make translation or nuance errors) for policies and regulations they may have adopted so as to avoid reinventing the wheel for the 50th time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 07:34
|
|
|
Foxfire_ posted:edit with context about FAA rules: In addition to a commercial license, you are required to have >=1500 total flight hours before you can be a copilot on a commercial passenger airliner. In practice, this means that if you don't have those hours from the military, you go twiddle around in a light general aviation plane for a few years after you finish schooling (because those hours don't need to be multiengine, IFR, involve big airports, or really have much to do with flying commercially) before you are hirable by an airline CASA rules in Australia for an Air Transport Pilot Licence are similar although the 1500 hours does have to include sub categories such as 75 hours of instrument flight, 200 hours cross country etc. So unless you've come out of the Air Force you're going to spend a lot of time doing mail runs, charters, GA instructor (if you hold the endorsement). Autopilot tech is great for applications like a cruise control in a car - hold this heading, hold this speed, trim for best efficiency, manage the engine settings etc. I think these functions have huge benefits in reducing crew fatigue but I'm not an advocate for any kind of complete automated flight control (although you can theoretically fly an entire sector automatically if the aircraft and the airports support it). Even the basic flight automation is still susceptible to covered pitot tubes, incorrect fuel loadings entered, sensor failures, and a host of other mechanical and human failures.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 10:00
|
|
|
Some more good news for Twitter in Europe:quote:UK staffers fired by Twitter when Elon Musk took the helm are claiming the dismissals were conducted unlawfully and include unacceptable severance terms, marking the latest labour-related challenge to hit the billionaire. https://www.ft.com/content/44cda247-7f53-4296-abf0-9b7446f5d04f (non-paywalled archive link: https://archive.is/OmND3) It sounds like Twitter basically assumed US employment law applied everywhere in the world, that they could completely ignore local requirements (they did the same as this in Ireland too I know). Which I can only presume was because they had already fired their legal department at this stage, its hilariously incompetent for a huge multinational company.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 12:55
|
|
|
Capt.Whorebags posted:CASA rules in Australia for an Air Transport Pilot Licence are similar although the 1500 hours does have to include sub categories such as 75 hours of instrument flight, 200 hours cross country etc. So unless you've come out of the Air Force you're going to spend a lot of time doing mail runs, charters, GA instructor (if you hold the endorsement). Except that in Australia, as in Canada and Europe but not the US, you can act as a first officer without an ATPL, you only need the ATPL in order to be pilot-in-command of a multi-crew aircraft. In the US, this is not the case, you need the ATPL for either position.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 14:34
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:JIhad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 15:52
|
|
|
Blut posted:Some more good news for Twitter in Europe: Let's not pretend this was a Twitter decision when it was an Elon Musk The Captain Of Industry decision he made on a whim.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 17:55
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:Let's not pretend this was a Twitter decision when it was an Elon Musk The Captain Of Industry decision he made on a whim. Being pedantic about it, he IS Twitter
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 19:08
|
|
|
quote:This week, Mr. Musk, who also leads the electric automaker Tesla, emailed Twitter employees saying he was available for meetings after finishing “most of my Tesla work.” He reminded them that he must approve all product design and engineering changes “no matter how small,” according to a copy of the note, which was seen by The New York Times. This amount of micromanagement looks like a giant red flag to me, but I guess he's hoping he can pull a Chris Roberts-level of monetization.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 22:17
|
|
|
Even if he was skilled in all the areas he wants to provide oversight to, surely he's turning himself into a huge bottleneck if he wants to personally approve every change. I hope some staff are going to malicious compliance him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 22:33
|
|
|
Thanks Ants posted:Even if he was skilled in all the areas he wants to provide oversight to, surely he's turning himself into a huge bottleneck if he wants to personally approve every change. I hope some staff are going to malicious compliance him. He isn't. Period, end. He has never worked on, or supervised working on, large-scale code running in multiple data centers.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 22:45
|
|
|
i want to be in the time line where they change a pixel and submit it to musky,
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 23:01
|
|
|
Bubbacub posted:This amount of micromanagement looks like a giant red flag to me, but I guess he's hoping he can pull a Chris Roberts-level of monetization. His monetization and over-inflation of Tesla's stock value (which has is still too high even after the drop over the last year) is so far above and beyond anything Chris Roberts or most other people could dream of doing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 23:02
|
|
|
https://futurism.com/the-byte/cnet-publishing-articles-by-ai Anyone here who’s reading those, by chance? I’m curious how well they’ve gone for you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2023 14:43
|
|
|
I was under the impression that Cnet was basically SEO spam and has been for a decade. That's what I have them filed under and always skip articles should they sneak into my search results.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2023 16:03
|
|
|
So just over a day ago a load of 3rd party twitter apps stopped working. They still don't work and twitter has said nothing. Before I would have said gently caress up but under Musk I can totally see him deciding to block them at they can't sent ads to them. https://www.theverge.com/2023/1/13/23553161/third-party-twitter-clients-apps-outage-twitterific-tweetbot
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2023 10:59
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:JIhad. jihad on anyone with a butler
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2023 12:45
|
|
|
Mega Comrade posted:So just over a day ago a load of 3rd party twitter apps stopped working. They still don't work and twitter has said nothing. Free bandwidth to known bots!? Not on my watch!
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2023 23:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:52 |
|
|
Apparently Madison Square Garden was using face scanning tech to remove lawyers linked to firms/cases that are against MSG and removing them. ah yes making things hard for law magic users this will surely go well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2023 23:45
|
|