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c355n4 posted:A good question that I should have answered previously and hopefully my answer isn't wishy washy. I have funds that I'd like to put into the house and hedge against electrical usage/bills going up in cost in the future. The various federal/state tax incentives are also playing a bit into this. I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm probably staying here until my kids get older. I currently have A/C, a natural gas furnace, and an electric hot water heater which needs to be replaced. I'm also planning to replace the insulation in the attic. I'm not concerned about emergency backup power. We don't really lose power often or for very long unless its some natural disaster like Sandy. Environmental statement isn't a factor in my decision; but I like the "idea" of solar and believe its good for the future. As Motronic points out, placing that money into an index fun with reasonable average annual returns compounded over the same timespan will almost certainly provide you with better ROI on your dollars. Like, by the time you hit the typical ten-year break-even point you could expect to have maybe doubled your money if you put the installation costs into an index fund. If you're still interested... For home solar to make any sense, you will need to have a south-facing roof that is not shaded, particularly during the summer. Websites like https://sunroof.withgoogle.com/ can help you figure out if you have rooftops that receive sufficient insolation, but the estimate there will be rough. In the event that you have an unshaded south-facing roof with sufficient real estate for solar panels that meet your needs, the break-even point with net-metering can be ten years or so, maybe shorter sometimes. However, the typical way this works is that you over-provision for your summer needs when you get a lot more solar power, and then bank those solar credits against your winter powers needs. For that to work, you really need to be heating electrically rather than via gas. Moving other appliances to electric will also move the calculations in your favor, but that's only sensible in cases where stuff actually needs replacement. Assuming you need to replace your total hvac already (and not just the water heater) and if the cost of the heat pump vs keeping gas are equal this may work in your favor. However, because you don't already heat electrically you will need to do some math to figure out what your winter heating bills (really, kwh usage) would be like using a heat pump and then feed that into your calculations about over-provisioning your summer solar generation and if your roof can support the array size you need. Also, if you need to replace your roof before you hit the ten-year break-even point then this messes up the calculations because the solar array has to come down first and you definitely don't want a roofing company doing that for you, so you'll have to pay an installer to remove and install it all again, at a minimum. This is all to say that it's not necessarily a terrible idea but it's not a slam dunk decision and you will have to spend a lot of time doing some legwork particular to your situation to figure out if the opportunity cost makes sense for you. Based on your post it sounds like maybe you wanted it to be an easy decision, in which case the index fund is probably the better move. Edit: Also utilities hate the economics of net-metering and are doing their best to get rid of it. Depending on the laws in your area you might not be able to depend on net-metering to help you reach your break-even at the end of ten years.
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Jan 11, 2023 21:44
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Batteries are the only hedge against net metering going away in the future. And "good for the future" is an environmental statement.  If you really want solar so it makes you feel guilt free when you blast the AC in the summer then go for it. Local reputable installer is the way to go - this is not the person at home depot. They will not be the cheapest. Panels matter in that you want ones that are not the cheapest ones, though you also absolutely do not need to get the tippy toppest of the line, it turns out the top of the line ones from a decade ago which are now mid-grade are holding up just fine. If the local installer has been around for that whole decade it speaks volumes. Ask people who have solar who put theirs on, and what happened when their inverter died. If the answer is "We were on grid power for about 5 days while they got the parts and swapped it out" that's golden. If they groan, run. If you're going solar size the load for basically what you're at in the summer with the electric appliances. I wouldn't go over on that, and net metering being precarious at best in NJ I wouldn't bank on the PoCo being your battery. Don't swap out your electric water heater for a gas one, but also don't toss your functional gas range for an electric yet either. Just make sure your panel has the available spots to do so when you decide you want to upgrade to induction. Remember your stove, while costly, is in theory only on for an hour a day. Even if you eat 3 meals a day at home.
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Jan 11, 2023 22:00
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Thanks everyone for the insight everyone. Lot of numbers to crunch and factors I didn't consider initially. Maybe I should just add an addition to my house instead. I do have some spare drywall... How do people make solar work? Or who does it work for?
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Jan 11, 2023 22:14
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Yooper posted:My latest drier adventure involved a trip to the "Reputable" local appliance store where I bought a "quality" thermal overload that I thought was bad. It was not bad, so I ordered the Amazon kit with all the overloads, switches, and heating element. The "quality" unit I bought was identical, right down to the chemical etched part number style and tooling marks on the Amazon one. I don't mind paying extra for better parts, but it's frustrating when it's all the same garbage. the parts I picked up today look like official Whirlpool stuff, we'll see how it goes. Dryer's up and running but I haven't done a test load yet.
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Jan 11, 2023 22:15
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c355n4 posted:Thanks everyone for the insight everyone. Lot of numbers to crunch and factors I didn't consider initially. Financially in all but the most optimum of scenarios it doesnt for people. I went through the same exercise when I bought my new house 6 months ago. I was looking at a 30 year break even with a 15 year warranty on parts.
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Jan 11, 2023 22:21
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c355n4 posted:How do people make solar work? Or who does it work for? Financially it doesn't often make sense. I have relatively inexpensive power and a municipally owned power company. I cannot make Solar work for me in a 25 year scenario and I will probably only be here 10 more years. Often times it's a lifestyle decision and people can feel good about using solar. Some parts of the country (California) have crazy expensive electricity and it can make sense there. Payoff times go down when you're paying 50 cents a kWh instead of 12. My neighbor spent 40K on a huge system and then moved 18 months later. His house is not worth 40K more because of the solar panels. Netmetering rules can change as well. Right now my electric company does full net metering but there's nothing stopping them from removing that in the future. I'm pretty sure that happened in Phoenix where they used to do net metering and then they went to wholesale buy rate on excess power.
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Jan 11, 2023 22:25
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Ground solar for homes is also a thing that exists. The panels have more flexibility and can collect more energy, and they also don't gently caress with your roof and don't prevent you from having shade trees. But obviously you aren't doing it on your front lawn in suburbia; it only makes sense in limited circumstances, like in a rural area where land is cheap enough you have acreage and an extra field
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Jan 11, 2023 22:30
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i like nice words
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In terms of AC in the summer, a white reflective metal roof did a lot for me. No need for panels. Just need to send the daystar's deadly rays back into space.
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Jan 11, 2023 22:56
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c355n4 posted:Thanks everyone for the insight everyone. Lot of numbers to crunch and factors I didn't consider initially. Solar really stands out in scenarios where you are far enough away from an existing grid connection that get hooked up might cost you tens of thousands on its own or like Anne Whately said where you don't have to mount it on your roof so it's not on top of a critical part of your home. But for ground mount you need reasonably sized and mostly unshaded area that's not occupied by something else. A sensible national energy policy would probably incentivize putting solar on rooftops, but it won't be a piecemeal effort by individual homeowners. Edit: The other thing I was going to say is that even most big boosters for solar will typically advocate energy efficiency moves before you start thinking about solar. So the roof insulation should come before a solar panel, more efficient HVAC if it's at replacement age, etc.
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Jan 11, 2023 23:03
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Anne Whateley posted:Ground solar for homes is also a thing that exists. The panels have more flexibility and can collect more energy, and they also don't gently caress with your roof and don't prevent you from having shade trees. But obviously you aren't doing it on your front lawn in suburbia; it only makes sense in limited circumstances, like in a rural area where land is cheap enough you have acreage and an extra field How about a solar pergola, anybody do that?
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Jan 11, 2023 23:06
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Aspergola
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Jan 11, 2023 23:24
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bees x1000 posted:I don't see an appliance repair thread, so I'll ask about my dryer problem here. FYI for anyone who find this post in the future: a new thermal fuse and cycling thermostat did NOT fix the problem. Timer still doesn't advance and it will overheat unless I stop the cycle manually. This is beyond my googling skills now so I'm calling a repairdude.
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Jan 12, 2023 03:15
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It seems like it would be cheaper to just replace it.
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Jan 12, 2023 03:28
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bees x1000 posted:FYI for anyone who find this post in the future: a new thermal fuse and cycling thermostat did NOT fix the problem. Timer still doesn't advance and it will overheat unless I stop the cycle manually. This is beyond my googling skills now so I'm calling a repairdude. Not gonna try replacing the Thermal Cut-Off kit or High Limit Thermostat? (Probably with another thermal fuse too)
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Jan 12, 2023 05:12
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I've got a 50's house where none of the outlets are grounded. There are GFCI outlets in the kitchen and bathroom, but all the other outlets are original 2 prong ones without grounds. I'm thinking of getting the breakers replaced with GFCI breakers (to prevent anyone from getting electrocuted), and then maybe also adding one of those whole house surge protectors at the panel (to cover any of the electronics), then replacing all the two prong outlets with 3 prong for convenience. Is that a solid plan? Obviously it would be best to run a ground to all the outlets, but that's going to be cost prohibitive right now. I think this gets me in a better spot in terms of safety without going crazy.
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Jan 12, 2023 05:24
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frogbs posted:I've got a 50's house where none of the outlets are grounded. There are GFCI outlets in the kitchen and bathroom, but all the other outlets are original 2 prong ones without grounds. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3090739 We have a whole thread just for YOU PEOPLE! Go take a picture of your panel with the door open to start.
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Jan 12, 2023 05:39
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H110Hawk posted:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3090739 We have a whole thread just for YOU PEOPLE! Go take a picture of your panel with the door open to start. Whooooaaaa! Thank you!
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Jan 12, 2023 05:42
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frogbs posted:I've got a 50's house where none of the outlets are grounded. There are GFCI outlets in the kitchen and bathroom, but all the other outlets are original 2 prong ones without grounds. If you have a panel that has GFCI/AFCI breaker options for it, you're set. My 50's house was setup just like yours, and I relied on GFCI's to be able to use 3-prong outlets until I rewired the house. Unfortunately my house was still on fuses so I had to wire up GFCI outlets at the beginning of each daisy chained room. Swapping out breakers would have been a lot easier. I eventually had a new panel installed and rewired the house and now all my outlets are 12 gauge, with GFCI/AFCI breaker protection, and they're grounded 
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Jan 12, 2023 05:48
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SpartanIvy posted:If you have a panel that has GFCI/AFCI breaker options for it, you're set. My 50's house was setup just like yours, and I relied on GFCI's to be able to use 3-prong outlets until I rewired the house. Unfortunately my house was still on fuses so I had to wire up GFCI outlets at the beginning of each daisy chained room. Swapping out breakers would have been a lot easier. I eventually had a new panel installed and rewired the house and now all my outlets are 12 gauge, with GFCI/AFCI breaker protection, and they're grounded Awesome, thank you for the info! I think i'm definitely going to go for the GFCI's at the panel to start (i'm just going to have an electrician do it). I'm still unsure of the whole house surge protector, will have to do more reading on that. How difficult was rewiring the house? Did you have to open up all the walls?
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Jan 12, 2023 06:10
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frogbs posted:Awesome, thank you for the info! I think i'm definitely going to go for the GFCI's at the panel to start (i'm just going to have an electrician do it). I'm still unsure of the whole house surge protector, will have to do more reading on that. I'm on a crawl space so I've been able to rewire through the crawl space without opening up any additional holes in walls. Just needed to widen outlet holes for modern boxes, and drill holes in bottom plates to run wires where they weren't already present. It's great to have a partner to help. Our panel is exterior mounted and we do have a big hole in the sheetrock opposite of it where we feed wires from the panel, down the wall cavity, and into the crawl space. That's it though.
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Jan 12, 2023 06:35
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bees x1000 posted:FYI for anyone who find this post in the future: a new thermal fuse and cycling thermostat did NOT fix the problem. Timer still doesn't advance and it will overheat unless I stop the cycle manually. This is beyond my googling skills now so I'm calling a repairdude. Would the overheating still be a problem if the cycles were completing on time? Our washer was getting stuck in it's cycles and the countdown would stop -- replacing the main control board seemed to fix the issue.
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Jan 12, 2023 12:06
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c355n4 posted:How do people make solar work? Or who does it work for? Solar is working for me but I had a good situation: all-electric townhome with modern wiring and ample panel space, not south-facing but a truly full sun east/west roof with decent slope, and finally federal, state, and local incentives. Other people have mentioned it but if you want to splash some money on a cool environmental project go and do an energy audit with the blower test and thermal camera and all that jazz.
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Jan 12, 2023 19:19
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Solar doesn’t even usually make sense here in Phoenix, but that’s in part because of the scummy/scammy companies and less-than-stellar support of our two large electric utilities.
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Jan 13, 2023 18:44
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Question: I have a 2 story above ground home with an open main entry way all the way up to the ceiling of the 2nd. It's approx a 18.5-19' ceiling there. The base of the windows are approx 14.5-15' I can probably use an extension ladder to get at the windows to clean/dust, but the light fixture goes all the way up to the ceiling and is about 4' (ish) from the wall. High enough that it would be very awkward and probably unsafe for me to climb, stand on an extension ladder backwards, extend my arms to try and dust or change a light bulb. I suspect the builder just used a scaffold when constructing but I am plum out of scaffolds. What is the "best" way to get to the top here? I am not really scared of heights per say, like I can walk around on a roof fine but I've always been a little uneasy on the top rungs of an extension ladder... and I'd rather not damage my walls or window casings if I can avoid it which I kind of fear might happen with an extension ladder slidebite fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jan 13, 2023 |
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Jan 13, 2023 19:01
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I'm not a fan of ladders, so I would buy a telescopic pole made by Unger (they sell them at Home Depot), either 18 or 24 foot, whichever you fancy, 18 would probably be enough, and then some dusting, window cleaning, and lightbulb changing attachments for it. https://usa.ungerglobal.com/product-category/poles/
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Jan 13, 2023 19:17
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Thanks! I actually have something like that and indeed could probably be used for light dusting. Unfortunately the fixtures have like a glass "jar" that need to be unscrewed for bulb changing so the pole really is not suitable for that unfortunately. We do have LEDs in there but the house is starting to have a few LEDs die (about 7 years old now) so I know I'm going to inevitably have to get up there. Also thinking about window coverings for those windows too.
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Jan 13, 2023 19:20
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slidebite posted:Question: Beautiful home. It looks like there might be a landing opposite the lights, which seem to be the dangle-type. Do you think you could get something around them to pull them over to the landing and access them that way? As for the windows... that's a pretty simple ladder solution unfortunately. If you aren't comfortable that's just something I would pay someone else to do when you need it accessed. It's a flat hardwood floor and the ladder doesn't have to be at any unusual angle to get there so it's pretty much just a simple ladder job. Damage to anything from the top of the ladder is usually pretty easily avoided - you can wrap an old shirt around the top bits and tape it in place for example.
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Jan 13, 2023 19:28
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There is indeed a landing on the upper level but it is a long ways away from that fixture... probably 10-12' I do like being self sufficient and I do own an extension ladder (and actually a big A frame too) so I'll probably experiment one of these days and make sure I'm good and sober lol.
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Jan 13, 2023 19:34
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Do you have attic access above the light? You could get a winch installed to lower it.
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Jan 14, 2023 00:00
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LOL not really, the attic access is almost as far as possible from there as possible which would be a fun hike over, but I like the cut of your jib. I need to be able to get to the windows anyhow. I'll just have to grow a pair and try out one of my ladders. Just thinking that my big A ladder might not fit in the entryway because it opens up so wide though.
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Jan 14, 2023 01:23
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slidebite posted:LOL not really, the attic access is almost as far as possible from there as possible which would be a fun hike over, but I like the cut of your jib. Just something else to mention, if you do put a ladder up to the window over your door make sure you somehow block the door from opening into your ladder. Like yeah lock it but if there's a chance someone with a key will come home and open it I'd also put a doorjamb in there too etc.
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Jan 14, 2023 02:13
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Do you have life insurance?
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Jan 14, 2023 02:37
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VelociBacon posted:Just something else to mention, if you do put a ladder up to the window over your door make sure you somehow block the door from opening into your ladder. Like yeah lock it but if there's a chance someone with a key will come home and open it I'd also put a doorjamb in there too etc.
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Jan 14, 2023 02:59
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I never understand what the gently caress builders are thinking (lol) when they hang fixtures like that in center-hall colonials. When I see them & they're part of my estimate scope it's usually for painting, so I write for scaffolding. Without the light fixtures & windows installed half-way to the loving Moon I can usually write for rollers on extension poles. Really do need a retractable mount so you can bring them down below compound-fracture level to clean/service/bulb change. Or build it closer to the second-floor hall so you can gaffe them over like the previous poster suggested. The only safe way that you're getting to that is by a) renting three levels of scaffolding, or b) hiring someone. PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Jan 14, 2023 |
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Jan 14, 2023 05:31
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Tunicate posted:In terms of AC in the summer, a white reflective metal roof did a lot for me. No need for panels. Just need to send the daystar's deadly rays back into space. Yeah but a metal roof is like 60k lol
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Jan 14, 2023 06:00
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c355n4 posted:
I just finished installing solar at our place this month. We found a local installer with a good reputation AND their prices were better than some of the big outlets. The incentives are about half of our project costs. If we’d had to upgrade the electric panels we would not have done it. Re-roofing almost also killed the math too. It makes financial sense for about 3 more months in California while you can get grandfathered in for 20 years under the old net metering rules and where you have .40 cents/kWh rates that keep going up dramatically. Payback under those old rules is certainly less than 30 years.
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Jan 14, 2023 13:23
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El Mero Mero posted:I just finished installing solar at our place this month. We found a local installer with a good reputation AND their prices were better than some of the big outlets. The incentives are about half of our project costs. If we’d had to upgrade the electric panels we would not have done it. Re-roofing almost also killed the math too. Holy poo poo. .40 cents/kWh. Ok, I see my initial disconnect as our rate is nowhere near that. Just wanted to say thanks to everyone for the info.
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Jan 14, 2023 14:17
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skipdogg posted:Netmetering rules can change as well. Right now my electric company does full net metering but there's nothing stopping them from removing that in the future. I'm pretty sure that happened in Phoenix where they used to do net metering and then they went to wholesale buy rate on excess power. Yep. I don't know the finer points of how APS does it since I've never had them as a utility, but SRP changed the rules fiveish years ago. Anyone who already had solar was good but new installs are subject to a demand based rate plan where the electricity you sell back is much, much cheaper. The upshot - for everyone - is that there's still so much solar generation happening that they reduced the peak time of use hours in the summer by starting it one hour later.
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Jan 14, 2023 14:17
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Also there are at least 3 major ways of determining the financial value of a solar install:
E: These get complicated if you're doing a solar loan, or trying to figure out what electricity will cost in 5 years, but honestly my take-away is that nobody is getting rich or going bankrupt over this home improvement and the ROI discussions make people crazy. If I break even or even lose a tiny bit I'll still be happy because I see solar as a hedge against future energy price volatility. If electricity prices plummet oh well, I still benefit via paying lower energy bills. If they go super high I'll benefit thanks to the hedge. If they stay flat it's a wash. El Mero Mero fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jan 14, 2023 |
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Jan 14, 2023 14:23
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c355n4 posted:Thanks everyone for the insight everyone. Lot of numbers to crunch and factors I didn't consider initially. My parents got an 8 kw solar setup for about 8k euros, electricity is 24 cents / kwh, for surplus power they're paid spot price. Which varies alot but seems to be a good deal most of the time.
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Jan 14, 2023 14:53
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