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shame on an IGA posted:US code allows three prong outlets with no ground wire IF they are protected by a GFCI device AND have a sticker applied to the faceplate For clarification: A warning sticker saying "No Equipment Ground" so that people using the outlet are aware that it is not properly grounded.
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Jan 12, 2023 17:58
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and every GFCI I've purchased comes with a pack of stickers for downstreams
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Jan 12, 2023 19:30
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Can you use (do they make?) GFCI breakers on a 220 dryer circuit? I have done the general 110 work around my house, run a new circuit, move a light switch, question why my 1980s house has so many dimmers switches but I never touch the 220.
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Jan 12, 2023 20:30
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Calidus posted:Can you use (do they make?) GFCI breakers on a 220 dryer circuit? They do! They're crazy expensive!
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Jan 12, 2023 20:40
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My laundry room sink is like 2ft away from my dryer outlet. I am replacing the sink, which is what got me thinking about this. I assume newer houses have better layouts? Or do laundry plugs have different code for water than your standard 110 outlet?
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Jan 12, 2023 20:52
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I wouldn't worry about it. Yes it should be gfci for safety and modern code, no I would not spend the scratch right now. Don't drop your dryer in the sink while it's plugged in.
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Jan 12, 2023 20:58
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H110Hawk posted:I wouldn't worry about it. Yes it should be gfci for safety and modern code, no I would not spend the scratch right now. Don't drop your dryer in the sink while it's plugged in. I performatively overengineered my dryer by mounting it on a DIN rail so it can't fall into the sink  edit: did you know Wago makes a carrier to mount the lever nuts on a DIN rail SyNack Sassimov fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jan 12, 2023 |
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Jan 12, 2023 23:02
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I am wago convert after dealing with 4 Romex pulls in a 2 gang box. Under cabinet lights are also much easier than I expected now that you can buy IP rated led strips and 12v power supplies.
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Jan 15, 2023 13:45
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Calidus posted:I am wago convert after dealing with 4 Romex pulls in a 2 gang box. Under cabinet lights are also much easier than I expected now that you can buy IP rated led strips and 12v power supplies. Do you have a recommendation for some lights? I'm doing some cabinets and I was looking for some.
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Jan 15, 2023 14:00
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Super-NintendoUser posted:Do you have a recommendation for some lights? I'm doing some cabinets and I was looking for some. This is what I got https://www.ledsupply.com/led-strips/waterproof-12v-led-strip. It’s the same thing my general contractor used when they made a lighted niche in a shower. LED Supply has various color and power supply options. I have only used the hard wired 20watt supplies.
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Jan 15, 2023 14:59
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Resistance heat is 100% efficient! All the power you put in comes out at heat! I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic, but that statement drives me nuts because I’m trying to find a way to improve the baseboard heat in my townhouse and it keeps popping up and ruining discussions online. 1) the output most people want from a heater isn’t just heat, it’s a comfortable room temperature. In larger rooms most electric resistance heat (often baseboard heaters) overheats part of the room to get the entire room comfortable. This is worse in larger rooms. 2) the relevant measurement for inputs for most people isn’t energy, it’s money. For most people in most places gas or a mini split is a substantially more efficient heat source where the input measured is dollars and output is measured in having a comfortable temperature across the entire room. On that note, anyone have any experience using the wall mounted resistance heaters with a built in fan? We’re they much of an improvement over basic baseboard heaters?
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Jan 15, 2023 15:01
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MrAmazing posted:I’m assuming you’re being sarcastic, but that statement drives me nuts because I’m trying to find a way to improve the baseboard heat in my townhouse and it keeps popping up and ruining discussions online. No, that's not sarcasm. Resistant heating is described as being 100% efficient because every bit of power you put into the heating device turns into heat. We just happen to have better ways of using electricity to generate more heat using an external source (heat pump, geothermal) which are generally 200-300% efficient. So I'm not sure why it's "ruining discussions" other than people being too pig headed to accept and understand the generally accepted terminology around the thing they want to discuss. MrAmazing posted:For most people in most places gas or a mini split is a substantially more efficient heat source where the input measured is dollars and output is measured in having a comfortable temperature across the entire room. A mini split is 200+% efficient, so considering it's doing twice as much with the same amount (cost) of electricity then yes, it will be cheaper. This isn't really a surprise. How much cheaper or more expensive gas is relative to resistance heat or a mini split depends entirely on what you pay for both electric and gas. How are a bunch of people in an online discussion going to know this about your particular area? Motronic fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Jan 15, 2023 |
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Jan 15, 2023 17:12
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Motronic posted:No, that's not sarcasm. Resistant heating is described as being 100% efficient because every bit of power you put into the heating device turns into heat. We just happen to have better ways of using electricity to generate more heat using an external source (heat pump, geothermal) which are generally 200-300% efficient. By this do you mean they are 2-3x as efficient for your money as resistance-based heaters? If not, how can something be more efficient than 100%? Not being pedantic just curious.
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Jan 16, 2023 00:29
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VelociBacon posted:By this do you mean they are 2-3x as efficient for your money as resistance-based heaters? No, I mean they are 2 to 3x as efficient turning the electrical power you put into them into the desired set temp in your home. This of course translates to power consumption cost when you're comparing electric into one device with electric into another device to achieve the same result. Note I said power consumption cost, not operating cost. Resistance heating is simple, cheap, and requires basically no maintenance. But unless your power is basically free you'll quickly come out ahead with the more expensive and more maintenance required heat pump in almost all climates. VelociBacon posted:If not, how can something be more efficient than 100%? Not being pedantic just curious. Resistance heating has a single energy input: electricity. Heat pumps and geothermal have two energy inputs: electricity and the outside air in the case of a heat pump and the ground/water/whatever media for geothermal. Their function is to extract what heat is available from this second input using electricity and it's therefore much more efficient than simply turning power into heat. Motronic fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 00:41
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VelociBacon posted:If not, how can something be more efficient than 100%? Not being pedantic just curious. A heat pump uses 1 joule of electricity to move >1 joules of heat from the outside into your house. The outside gets colder and the inside gets hotter.
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Jan 16, 2023 01:06
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VelociBacon posted:By this do you mean they are 2-3x as efficient for your money as resistance-based heaters? If not, how can something be more efficient than 100%? Not being pedantic just curious. Let's set a baseline of efficiency S. A unit with S efficiency can keep the temperature of a reference space constant with a specific temperature difference inside the space and outside, using a reference amount of energy. Let's set S based on electric resistive heat and make up some numbers. Your resistive heater can keep a e.g. 70 degree room at 70 degrees with the outside temperature at 30 degrees using 1000W. This means it has an efficiency of S. Now you have a heat pump. It can keep a 70 degree room at 70 degrees with an outside temperature of 30 degrees, but only uses 500W to do it. So it has an efficiency of 2S, or 200% efficient. If you want to look at it another way, a reference heat pump is 100% efficient. Resistance heater is 30% efficient. A competing heat pump is 90% efficient. A newer model of heat pump is 120% efficient. If you have some magic device that can use Maxwell's Demon to move heat, then it can do the same trick using 0W, for an efficiency of infiinty S. This is why Maxwell's Demon violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics, and why actual heat pumps require energy input at all.
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Jan 16, 2023 02:00
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I came across this while looking up some other stuff wiring my garage lights: https://www.familyhandyman.com/list/the-most-common-electrical-code-violations-diyers-make/ In particular, the section on needing a neutral wire on switches reads fine, but then throws in a 3-wire (well, four if we are counting ground) in the picture. I have fifty feet of NM 3-wire I was about to open thanks to this. I was not planning to have a 3-way lighting setup though so I don't need a traveler. So was the deal just to use NM 2-wire as usual?
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Jan 16, 2023 09:05
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:https://www.familyhandyman.com/list/the-most-common-electrical-code-violations-diyers-make/ quote:Installing Too Few Receptacles groverhaus intensifies
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Jan 16, 2023 13:58
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I came across this while looking up some other stuff wiring my garage lights: That photo's weird-- it's depicting a switch leg, which you would need 3-wire for to get a neutral down to it, or you could do what most people do these days and go into the switch box first and then go to the fixture with only the neutral and switched hot. The diagram in the article has unswitched hot available at the fixture and the switch box.
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Jan 16, 2023 14:37
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Qwijib0 posted:That photo's weird-- it's depicting a switch leg, which you would need 3-wire for to get a neutral down to it, or you could do what most people do these days and go into the switch box first and then go to the fixture with only the neutral and switched hot. The diagram in the article has unswitched hot available at the fixture and the switch box. Yeah I did not really scrutinize it and thought it meant keeping a spare hot for adding an outlet or whatever later, but when I reread it later, it was all about the neutral. Edit: I get the idea that I want a neutral in case I use a smart switch later so I think the thing is I should run new circuits that have a switch with NM 2-wire instead of ... NM 1-wire? I don't think that is even a thing, but I guess you can see just hot and ground in older stuff? Rocko Bonaparte fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 15:36
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Yeah I did not really scrutinize it and thought it meant keeping a spare hot for adding an outlet or whatever later, but when I reread it later, it was all about the neutral. what are you trying to do, take existing garage lights without a switch and install one or are you running everything thing new? if you're taking existing lights that only have direct power, you will want that 14-3 so you can have constant power on black, switched power on red and neutral on white. if you want any switch smarter than a toggle (motion, wifi, timer, etc) you need that neutral. if you're running everything new, you'll run 14-2 to your switch box first and then to your lights. 14-3 is useful to run to your lights in case you want to have two switches for two sets of lights or a ceiling fan or something. if you're just trying to avoid opening the 14-3 roll then you can run a second 14-2, just make sure to label every cable and conductor
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Jan 16, 2023 15:58
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I'm adding circuits fresh in my garage. For this current conversation, I've been posting about the new circuit for garage ceiling light fixtures. These are the main lights for the garage, which I only ever intend to hit from the door into the house (attached garage). Side note: a separate circuit just for some LED garage lights is kind of overkill, sure. The circuit that's currently driving the single light bulb in the garage is taking care of an upstairs bonus room partially over the garage, along with some hallway lights, and all of my exterior front lights, so I want to take some pressure off of that circuit as I add more lights.
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Jan 16, 2023 16:43
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Yeah I did not really scrutinize it and thought it meant keeping a spare hot for adding an outlet or whatever later, but when I reread it later, it was all about the neutral. It's a lovely diagram that is just confusing as hell, because it's rare that you would want both switched and always-hot to the same box, and then that box is probably going to be an outlet and not a light. Switch legs are an old way of wiring where the actual hot/neutral supply line ends at the fixture where the light is. The wire coming down from the fixture is directly in series with the light and can't be used to power anything else. The fixture has two-conductor wire (14/2 or 12/2) coming into the box from the breaker, and a separate two-conductor wire running from the fixture down to the switch. The switch box has a hot (in this diagram, the remarked white wire), but no neutral as the only other conductor leaves to power the fixture.  The modern way to do it is to run the power from the breaker to the switch at the wall first, so you have hot and neutral available at the switch box: 
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Jan 16, 2023 17:15
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Yeah I dunno if I've seen that around here but I guess everything I've touched is just newer. Well, I don't think I need this 12/3 then. It was quite a bit of money to pay for that red wire. I have a different question: how does one drywall retractable outlet boxes? Look at this as a reference: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-1-Gang-21-cu-in-New-Work-Non-Metallic-Electrical-Wall-Box-with-Adjustable-Bracket-B121ADJ-40R/202077339 So there's that plate over the front of the stud. Does that just get mudded over or something?
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Jan 16, 2023 17:51
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Yeah I dunno if I've seen that around here but I guess everything I've touched is just newer. Well, I don't think I need this 12/3 then. It was quite a bit of money to pay for that red wire. No, sheetrock goes over that. It's a new work box. Are you trying to install this in an existing sheetrocked wall? If so you need an old work box.
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Jan 16, 2023 18:01
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Motronic posted:No, sheetrock goes over that. It's a new work box. I have sheetrock pulled off where I am working but I hope to install new panels and have it flush with the sheetrock that is still there. They were being advertised as both old work and new work so I just went for it. I had always wanted to be able to pull the box out a bit or adjust it so they seduced me.
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Jan 16, 2023 18:09
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I have sheetrock pulled off where I am working but I hope to install new panels and have it flush with the sheetrock that is still there. They were being advertised as both old work and new work so I just went for it. I had always wanted to be able to pull the box out a bit or adjust it so they seduced me. I don't see how that could possibly be an old work box but maybe I don't understand how it's supposed to work. It also literally says it's a new work box.
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Jan 16, 2023 18:25
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I have sheetrock pulled off where I am working but I hope to install new panels and have it flush with the sheetrock that is still there. They were being advertised as both old work and new work so I just went for it. I had always wanted to be able to pull the box out a bit or adjust it so they seduced me. I think the description that listing is just a general description from some flier or product description that describes both an old and a new work box from the same manufacturer, and that's a new work box only but there's some matching old work box. Edit: Yeah, that product description matches this box, somebody just messed up on the website listing: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-14-cu-in-PVC-Old-Work-Electrical-Outlet-Box-1-Gang-B114RB/100404027
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Jan 16, 2023 19:32
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So we've got these white light fixtures that were kind of out of place with the rest of the house's mid century stylings that we were thinking about replacing. However, we were cleaning out the basement and found an unused fixture and realized that they were originally brass and previous owner painted them for some reason. Now we want to try and strip the paint, but when I started to take one down I realized I'm going to have to undo the wiring to get the brass piece off. And of course, the wiring is secured with something I haven't seen before, and is not in any of the videos or pictures I can find of rewiring a socket:  What is this? Am I going to be able to rewire it if I take it off? Not really even sure what to google here. I suspect the fact that I can't find an example like this means it's probably not how you're supposed to do it anymore.
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Jan 16, 2023 21:07
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Not sure what part of this you're asking about. The wiring isn't "secured" with anything: it's solderd to the terminals. And no, you really shouldn't do it like that anymore. You should be able to find replacements for those sockets so you can rewire everything with modern parts in your old housings. They as well as any wire in there belongs in the garbage.
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Jan 16, 2023 21:15
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Apologies if this has been covered recently, but I skimmed the last several pages and didn't see anything. For the past couple of months, I thought I noticed my bathroom overhead light flickering, but it was always in that kind of way where you think maybe you're just blinking weird or something. Then a couple weeks ago, the light just turned off for a couple seconds after having been on for several minutes. It happened three more times in the past week, and seems to be staying off for longer each time (but still just a few seconds). It only happens when the light has been on for awhile (so, conveniently, in the middle of taking a shower the last couple times). Given this trend, is it likely there's some loose wiring? I have basic electrical knowledge (like, academically) but essentially zero home electrical knowledge\experience. Any chance this is something I could investigate on my own, or should I call in a pro?
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Jan 16, 2023 21:46
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Did you try replacing the bulb?
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Jan 16, 2023 22:06
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What kind of bulb? This is a common failure mode for LEDs.
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Jan 16, 2023 22:12
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You know, it is an LED bulb, and while it's "for damp environments," it's not rated for the completely enclosed fixture in which is installed (it's from the previous owner). I didn't realize that was a failure mode for LEDs; I always just experienced bulbs dying outright. I'll change it up and see if that helps. Any idea if the "for damp environments" is necessary? I haven't noticed it on other bulbs, but I do have bulbs for enclosed fixtures. E: looks like the ones I have say that, so we're good! I'll check back in if it doesn't solve the problem. Thanks! marjorie fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 22:46
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marjorie posted:You know, it is an LED bulb, and while it's "for damp environments," it's not rated for the completely enclosed fixture in which is installed (it's from the previous owner). I didn't realize that was a failure mode for LEDs; I always just experienced bulbs dying outright. I'll change it up and see if that helps. I doubt you need one for damp environments but you absolutely need one that is rated to be in an enclosure. It's turning off when it heats up (because the rectifier circuit is going bad from getting cooked) then turns back on again when it cools off enough to start working. It will eventually fail outright. Plug for my favorite site for bulbs because they have a great search and really nice products: https://www.1000bulbs.com/fil/categories/led-light-bulbs Search for the base and shape you need and add 90+ CRI and see what shows up that is rated to be in an enclosure (it's a filter for some base types). If you can't find what you need call or email them - they're really good with finding the right stuff for you and answering questions.
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Jan 16, 2023 22:52
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Motronic posted:Not sure what part of this you're asking about. The wiring isn't "secured" with anything: it's solderd to the terminals. Yeah that's what I meant. I thought it might be some sort of metal fastener that just punched into the terminal. Thanks
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Jan 16, 2023 23:26
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Fellatio del Toro posted:Yeah that's what I meant. I thought it might be some sort of metal fastener that just punched into the terminal. Thanks For replacements, antiquelampsupply.com is pretty great
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Jan 16, 2023 23:38
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csammis posted:For replacements, antiquelampsupply.com is pretty great Oh that's a pro click. A place I've used for reproduction fabric jacketed lamp cord in fun patterns and colors: https://sundialwire.com/
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Jan 16, 2023 23:55
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Motronic posted:I doubt you need one for damp environments but you absolutely need one that is rated to be in an enclosure. It's turning off when it heats up (because the rectifier circuit is going bad from getting cooked) then turns back on again when it cools off enough to start working. It will eventually fail outright. Excellent, thanks! And that totally makes sense about the LED\heat issue. I had previously bought a few packs of Cree bulbs that were rated for enclosures because pretty much all of the other bulbs here died within 2 months of me moving in, and I suspected that was part of the problem. I think the bathroom fixture is the largest of the lot, so that probably allowed for that bulb to limp along a little while longer (also for whatever reason all of the other bulbs in enclosures were CFL, and I'm guessing they get even hotter?). The Cree bulb is significantly less bright in the bathroom fixture though, so I'll check that site you linked and try out some options with more lumens (that are still rated for fully enclosed fixtures).
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Jan 16, 2023 23:57
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Is there a good option for outdoor cable management that isn't conduit? I've got a bunch of low voltage wiring (cable, fiber, doorbell...). I can clean it up with some zipties, but I'd like something a little more finished. Conduit won't work since I can't really re-splice the fiber to fit. The siding guys used some sort of sheet metal enclosure to hide the HVAC lines, I'm tempted to find something similar, although the one they used is way too big for the wiring I'm trying to hide.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:40
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