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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nah, my thinking was more of the vein of DS9 Section 31, where you never really know if it existed outside of Sloane. I mean, that doesn't preclude organizing a strike team of disposables to go out and get poo poo done. But on a re-read of your original post I think I get what you mean.
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Jan 14, 2023 15:00
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Outpost22 posted:Didn't section 31 infect the founders with a bioengineered virus, leading to the Dominion surrendering and ending a bloody war that took billions of lives? There's a word for an organization like that: heroic. Heroic bioterrorists
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Jan 14, 2023 15:20
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nah, my thinking was more of the vein of DS9 Section 31, where you never really know if it existed outside of Sloane. <Sloan's emergency transporter saves him from the romulans interrogation> <He materializes a few km away on a random Romulan street in full makeup> <He begins the "Kevin Spacey walk" from the end of The Usual Suspects> <A grin begins to appear on his face as he continues> <Sloan hops into a waiting shuttlecraft on the side of the street> <His grin fades and turns into a look of confusion as he sees there is nobody behind the controls>
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Jan 14, 2023 15:24
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Outpost22 posted:Didn't section 31 infect the founders with a bioengineered virus, leading to the Dominion surrendering and ending a bloody war that took billions of lives? There's a word for an organization like that: heroic. Fascism is liberalism in crisis. Turns out the only way to have a liberal utopia is to also have a fascist genocidal arm of your society hidden away until you come across something liberalism can't handle (shapeshifters, climate change, paying living wages).
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Jan 14, 2023 19:48
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Outpost22 posted:Didn't section 31 infect the founders with a bioengineered virus, leading to the Dominion surrendering and ending a bloody war that took billions of lives? There's a word for an organization like that: heroic. That's not at all what Section 31 was going for though, it was just "kill all the Founders, then the Jem'Hadar will eventually wither for lack of ketracel white." Odo having the cure and being able to leverage that to convince the Founder to link with him and gain his perspective helped, but that could just as easily have gone wrong if the Defiant had been destroyed earlier that day, or if Garak got trigger-happy and shot the Founder, or any number of other circumstances.
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Jan 14, 2023 21:14
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me at 9: drat starfleet is awesome, im going to explore the galaxy and make mankind great 30 years later: who the gently caress would join starfleet? don't forget your pith hat on your expedition to find space blood diamonds and install a new regime about it you goddamn swine.
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Jan 14, 2023 21:19
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Nah, my thinking was more of the vein of DS9 Section 31, where you never really know if it existed outside of Sloane. This is the only version of Section 31 I found interesting, that ultimately it could just be one guy trying to whip up a homegrown Obsidian Order who was lying to Bashir about having institutional backing. That you couldn’t really know for sure if Section 31 was a real thing or if Slone was trying to set Bashir up as a fall guy for his spy schemes.
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Jan 14, 2023 22:56
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Trixie Hardcore posted:This is the only version of Section 31 I found interesting, that ultimately it could just be one guy trying to whip up a homegrown Obsidian Order who was lying to Bashir about having institutional backing. That you couldn’t really know for sure if Section 31 was a real thing or if Slone was trying to set Bashir up as a fall guy for his spy schemes. I like to think it’s real, and it’s been there from the beginning, but there’s never been more than one or two people involved at any given time. Maybe a half-dozen officers in starfleet intelligence have a feeling they exist, but they got no proof so they never include it in reports.
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Jan 14, 2023 22:59
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I think you could do a Section 31 show, but it'd have to be a very specific format; You do it like an anthology series, with just a Sloane-type character as the audience perspective on an incident or situation they're assisting. You have no context on what the greater goal is, only watching them play spy to help/hinder the episode's plot. And only in the finale learn what all the dominoes tipping in various ways amounts to. Actually, that could work. Have Georgieu toss down a series of PADDs with the bios of this week's experts in the teaser, then send them off on a mission that's only been vaguely described to the audience. After they cunningly manipulate the Proconsul into executing her most anti-Federation advisor or whatever they all pile into their box-van shuttle to head home... and then Georgieu pushes a red button in her apartment and the shuttle explodes, the fates of its occupants an eternal mystery.
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Jan 14, 2023 23:55
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How about Get Smart in space? The organization they worked for was even named CONTROL.
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Jan 15, 2023 00:40
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John Murdoch posted:And then at the end it all turns out to be a Bluegill plot and somebody gets their head blown up. 
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Jan 15, 2023 00:56
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Fornax Disaster posted:How about Get Smart in space? The organization they worked for was even named CONTROL. RIP Don Adams. Please leave Get Smart in the past. It stopped after the original series and no movies, or other serieses were made. 
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Jan 15, 2023 02:12
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Nigmaetcetera posted:I like to think it’s real, and it’s been there from the beginning, but there’s never been more than one or two people involved at any given time. Maybe a half-dozen officers in starfleet intelligence have a feeling they exist, but they got no proof so they never include it in reports. And the ones that did consider doing so arrived at work one day to find a handwritten note on their desk that just said "Don't".
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Jan 15, 2023 02:26
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Neddy Seagoon posted:And the ones that did consider doing so arrived at work one day to find a handwritten note on their desk that just said "Don't". Noice
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Jan 15, 2023 02:27
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On one hand I'm excited to see Michelle Yeoh in more Star Trek and on the other hand a Section 31 show sounds dumb as poo poo
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Jan 15, 2023 03:34
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I thought you were all shitposting. Please tell me there isn't going to be a Section 31 show.
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Jan 15, 2023 04:54
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The Demilich posted:I thought you were all shitposting. Please tell me there isn't going to be a Section 31 show. They’ve said repeatedly they’re developing a S31 show starting Yeoh since at least Disco S2. Everyone thought it was quietly shoved under the rug the last few years due to her being stupid busy and SNW taking off, but Kurtzman and crew just mentioned they’re still working on it as of this month or whatever lol
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Jan 15, 2023 04:57
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Unless they're objectively villains... Gross. Mycomancy nailed it: mycomancy posted:Fascism is liberalism in crisis. Turns out the only way to have a liberal utopia is to also have a fascist genocidal arm of your society hidden away until you come across something liberalism can't handle (shapeshifters, climate change, paying living wages). They've taken the space communism of my youth and turned it into dogshit. All I'm expecting is something along the lines of all those greasy Dick Wolff cop shows that suck rear end. Bunch of intelligencia propaganda.
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Jan 15, 2023 05:01
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I haven’t seen any Star Trek shows after Enterprise so I don’t have a basis for comparison on what the modern Trek audience wants but I know enough about the plot of Picard to think those same people would make a show about Section 31.
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Jan 15, 2023 05:16
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Like think of all the trauma you could show, think of all the torture, think of all the fight scenes, think of all the shocking twists!
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Jan 15, 2023 05:18
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I tried watching SNW recently but I failed completely to even start it and just watched Showgirls (1995) instead so I'm not mentally healed from all the damage caused by watching Picard season 1
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Jan 15, 2023 05:29
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I don't hate the concept of Section 31, but I understand why a lot of people do. Section 31 as a 'cult' or 'vigilantes' could kind of work. Families that raise their kids up to be in the roles, convert people, living an official life and an unofficial one. People involved saw the value of making sure there was some group that could do the things the Federation literally couldn't do. It'd also be interesting to seem them be almost benevolent in their own ways. Starfleet doesn't interfere with pre-warp society? We're going to spend 30 years in hiding assets on some planet and help them get over their warp barrier in order to quietly assist in Federation interests in the region. Federation won't do anything to stop a civil war on an alien world? Section 31 will, because they foresee that it will eventually spill out into neighboring systems, causing widespread piracy and hijacking of Federation assets. Agitate a growing a political crisis on a non-Federation world? Yes. Horrible, but if they don't they forecast that in 5 years that world will be harshly annexed by Klingon Empire given the Empire's current trend of colonization. A short-term suffering now makes them more agreeable towards improving relationships with the 'eager to help' Federation through requesting humanitarian and mediation assistance from them rather than one group inviting Klingons in to turn the tide of the conflict. In five years, the Klingons will consider attempts to move on the world as not worth the effort.
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Jan 15, 2023 06:12
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except this is the discovery version, where they are a well known federation agency while still being equivalent to the tal'shiar.
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Jan 15, 2023 06:14
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Trixie Hardcore posted:This is the only version of Section 31 I found interesting, that ultimately it could just be one guy trying to whip up a homegrown Obsidian Order who was lying to Bashir about having institutional backing. That you couldn’t really know for sure if Section 31 was a real thing or if Slone was trying to set Bashir up as a fall guy for his spy schemes. This is such a great idea and I’m retroactively mad that Star Trek Enterprise ruined the possibility 20 years ago
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Jan 15, 2023 06:19
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Yeah, my mind keeps going back to the DS9 and partially Ent. versions of the organization. We need James Bond Trek for Section 31. Every episode is a character walking around in Trekverse in an Our Man Bashir tux and no one blinks an eye because, "Well, it's odd, but have you seen what every other alien wears?"
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Jan 15, 2023 06:22
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The people making the Section 31 show would, if you asked them, say the CIA are heroes
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Jan 15, 2023 06:25
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they probably say it unprompted sometimes.
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Jan 15, 2023 06:30
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:except this is the discovery version, where they are a well known federation agency while still being equivalent to the tal'shiar. Isn't there a more secret version of the tal’shiar now? Maybe the shocking twist at the end of Season 1 of Section 31 will be there’s a more secret version of Section 31.
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Jan 15, 2023 06:54
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A Section Thirty....TWO?
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Jan 15, 2023 06:56
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Section 30, it’s even older than Section 31, even more twisted, wait til you hear about Section 29!
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Jan 15, 2023 07:12
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Section 31 is a remnant from WW3 and has been continuously operating since then. They predate the Federation, Starfleet, and Zephram Cochrane. Also their leader is yet another Noonien Singh.
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Jan 15, 2023 08:12
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JediTalentAgent posted:I don't hate the concept of Section 31, but I understand why a lot of people do. This is just "what if the futuristic CIA had positive impact on society?" the show. Dabir posted:The people making the Section 31 show would, if you asked them, say the CIA are heroes .
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Jan 15, 2023 08:26
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section 31 is just the deposed united states government
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Jan 15, 2023 08:36
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The crazy thing is that I could have seen someone pulling an 'Orville' of Section 31 to great success. Not so much a comedy, but just using the entire thing to homage a familiar Trek concept, but use the benefit of it being completely divorced from the canon and mythology to go into their own direction with a Space CIA concept.
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Jan 15, 2023 08:42
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Trixie Hardcore posted:Isn't there a more secret version of the tal’shiar now? Maybe the shocking twist at the end of Season 1 of Section 31 will be there’s a more secret version of Section 31.  John Murdoch posted:Section 31 is a remnant from WW3 and has been continuously operating since then. They predate the Federation, Starfleet, and Zephram Cochrane. Also their leader is yet another Noonien Singh. 
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Jan 15, 2023 08:44
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Yeah they’ll probably find a way to cast Spiner twice in it
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Jan 15, 2023 09:09
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If they don't cast him they're spineless
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Jan 15, 2023 09:15
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Data should’ve died in All Good Things, there I’ve said it.
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Jan 15, 2023 09:20
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Trixie Hardcore posted:Data should’ve died in All Good Things, there I’ve said it. Several did.
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Jan 15, 2023 09:52
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The reason phasers usually do gently caress and all to the monster of the week isn't because the galaxy is just that dangerous, it's because Section 31 diverts the real poo poo to their secret reserves and sends out subpar trash to the rest of Starfleet. A tar monster made of concentrated evil didn't kill Tasha Yar, Section 31 did.
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Jan 15, 2023 10:14
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