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orange juche posted:Remind me again why the gently caress the US continues to stick with imperial measurements when metric is objectively better in all ways, including providing a convenient socket in every tool set (10mm) to hurl across your garage into a dark corner to just go ahead and get it over with? Pfft, as if you have a 10mm socket available to hurl anywhere.
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Jan 15, 2023 08:47
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:The really lol part is all the American engineers I know work in metric and have to convert it back to imperial for the home market Metrication in the US is a loving mess CainFortea posted:Pfft, as if you have a 10mm socket available to hurl anywhere. It was just in my loving hand?!?! 10mm fairies teleporting in and stealing sockets to build an impenetrable fortress from which they plot to steal more 10mm sockets
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Jan 15, 2023 08:48
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10mm is what like 3 inches
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Jan 15, 2023 09:08
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I like what I get when I put the battalion (50) of Bradleys together with a squadron (14) of Challenger 2s. That gives you four M2 companies that can do bounding advances on about a 2km front, in two lines of two companies each. Then you have a company each of Bradleys and Challenger 2s in reserve to rush forward when the breakthrough is made. The Bradleys in the four line companies mark targets for precision fires, that leaves the Challengers free to exploit their mobility instead of their firepower. That'll put a squadron of MBTs and a company of mechanized infantry loose in the Russian rear areas. You'll lose some vehicles and squads to defensive fire (20-ish at a guess), but that puts a lot of armor in the exploitation phase. If you do a good preparatory bombardment and use smoke to protect the flanks of this force, I think this is a good recipe for tearing a hole in Russian defensive positions. This scheme also has the advantage of concentrating the logistical burden of Western AFVs in one spot, that's an important consideration.
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Jan 15, 2023 09:08
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mllaneza posted:I like what I get when I put the battalion (50) of Bradleys together with a squadron (14) of Challenger 2s. Nah
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Jan 15, 2023 09:15
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That's not that far off from what they did around Kharkiv except with Russian/donated vehicles. They also HIMARSed the regional command post right as the offensive started, which bought them a lot of time before there was a coherent response. idk how repeatable that is since it depended on both a lot of fortunate command chaos plus a major numerical mismatch and Russian defenses in the region were not really set up effectively in as much depth as they've since shifted to. They also benefited from Russia somehow failing to effectively react to Ukraine building up, what, two brigades around Kharkiv. Also hard to overstate how night and day different the manpower situation is on the russian side now compared to 5 months ago. They've often got more people around than they even know what to do with, especially now that the last of the big mobilization wave are making it to the front. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Jan 15, 2023 |
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Jan 15, 2023 09:17
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orange juche posted:Remind me again why the gently caress the US continues to stick with imperial measurements when metric is objectively better in all ways, including providing a convenient socket in every tool set (10mm) to hurl across your garage into a dark corner to just go ahead and get it over with? Protectionism. Harder for foreign firms compete for contracts if they have to retool.
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Jan 15, 2023 09:23
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Tanks would be one of the least possible things to transfer secretly, too, no? Almost every step of the process would be visible to satellites and there's a finite number of land routes into Ukraine Ukraine is pretty accessible through the Bosphorus and you have NATO allies right next door anyways. If you really have balls just send a US flag and tell Russia you're bringing humanitarian aid to Odessa and dare them to hit it. I think the Cape Rise is doing a bunch of the heavy lift over there anyways.
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Jan 15, 2023 09:25
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doesn't turkey not let you do that
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Jan 15, 2023 09:26
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I doubt that Ukraine will be able to manage another lightning breakthrough like they did around Kharkiv, it was a perfect storm of Russian idiocy and clever planning by Ukrainian commanders, but the Ukrainian commanders are definitely better at their jobs than their Russian counterparts. The Russians just have a lot more materiel and cannon fodder to burn through.
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Jan 15, 2023 09:26
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lightpole posted:Ukraine is pretty accessible through the Bosphorus and you have NATO allies right next door anyways. If you really have balls just send a US flag and tell Russia you're bringing humanitarian aid to Odessa and dare them to hit it. I think the Cape Rise is doing a bunch of the heavy lift over there anyways. The PR blowback from lying to the Turks about what you're transiting the Bosphorus with, and then very publicly offloading a bunch of military hardware in Odessa would far outweigh any benefit.
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Jan 15, 2023 09:28
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Why are we sending Bradley's I thought we were trying to help
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Jan 15, 2023 09:34
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As well as the challenger 2 tanks the UK is also now sending 30+ AS-90 self-propelled artillery guns. Theres also reports that 4 apache gunships are going - though I've not see any confirmed reports on that.
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Jan 15, 2023 10:41
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there's less than zero remotely credible source on the apache stuff
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Jan 15, 2023 10:42
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Baconroll posted:Theres also reports that 4 apache gunships are going The Mirror is not a credible source, that's like "the bum behind the corner store told you" as far as credibility, they just wholesale make poo poo up.
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Jan 15, 2023 10:54
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not caring here posted:Why are we sending Bradley's I thought we were trying to help we are sending Bradley Cooper to voice private Raccoon
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Jan 15, 2023 11:02
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Press release says 50 Bradleys but its 50 people named Bradley
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Jan 15, 2023 11:47
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orange juche posted:Remind me again why the gently caress the US continues to stick with imperial measurements when metric is objectively better in all ways, including providing a convenient socket in every tool set (10mm) to hurl across your garage into a dark corner to just go ahead and get it over with? Could be worse. The UK uses a mixture of metric and imperial that makes things even more complicated.
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Jan 15, 2023 11:49
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psydude posted:Could be worse. The UK uses a mixture of metric and imperial that makes things even more complicated. So does the US since 1975.
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Jan 15, 2023 12:02
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CSM posted:As I understand it, Abrams aren't a very good fit for Ukraine because of the high fuel consumption and maintenance requirements. At this rate, the US will be referring to the Germans and Germany will still be blocking transfers over "escalation concerns" in 2026 when the Polish K2 Black Panther factory starts up. I wouldn't be surprised if Ukraine will receive neither Abrams nor Leopard, but K2PL tanks. By then we'll be well north of a million casualties.
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Jan 15, 2023 12:07
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Herstory Begins Now posted:there's less than zero remotely credible source on the apache stuff Leaving credibility aside, would Apaches be worth anything at all given the state of AA in Ukraine? My understanding is that AA density is high enough on both sides to make offensive air ops risky (unless they do poo poo like long range rocket lobbing). Doubly so for slow-moving helicopters.
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Jan 15, 2023 12:28
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orange juche posted:Well if the UK is giving them Chobham on the Challenger 2's (dunno if they're doing this, since the ink is barely dry on the deal between 10 Downing Street and Kyiv), then there's been a re-evaluation of how classified it is. Since the UK developed Chobham and licensed its production to the US and other NATO members, they get to decide what they do with it. The armour is totally integral to the design of the tank so yes it will be on them. The UK stuff on the C2 is referred to as Dorchester but it's unclear how that differs from the OG Chobham/Burlington armour, probably not much. I posted this blog link a while back which has more info than I've seen anywhere else https://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.com/2016/03/chobham-armor-facts-and-fiction-1.html?m=1
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Jan 15, 2023 12:43
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Baconroll posted:As well as the challenger 2 tanks the UK is also now sending 30+ AS-90 self-propelled artillery guns. Theres also reports that 4 apache gunships are going - though I've not see any confirmed reports on that. The Apache article from the Mirror was retracted.
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Jan 15, 2023 13:02
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orange juche posted:50/50 most likely, it takes time for bureaucratic poo poo to happen. Western intel was predicting that Ukraine would fall in like 96 hours. It was really wild how badly everyone overestimated the Russians and underestimated the Ukrainians. Even after it became obvious that the Russian military was horribly underprepared beyond the rosiest of assesments, there was still the lingering doubt that continues even now that Ukraine can actually pull it out to the pre-2014 borders. Russia is loving terrible, and completely unable to fight this war, but quantity is a quality all its own. How does the M1A1 compare with anything currently seen in the field on the Russian side though? It doesn't have to be better than the Challenger 2 to be effective, and it's not a case of "If we send older Abrams, you don't get Challengers".
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Jan 15, 2023 13:05
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A.o.D. posted:How does the M1A1 compare with anything currently seen in the field on the Russian side though? It doesn't have to be better than the Challenger 2 to be effective, and it's not a case of "If we send older Abrams, you don't get Challengers". I believe you're looking for the Battle of 73 Easting if you want to see M1A1s and Bradley IFVs vs T-72s etc. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72XLTfmcaAw Challenger 2 vs T-72 etc would go similarly, they both simply outrange a T-72 and have better optics, so they have a higher chance of winning a fight as long as they're dictating the terms of the engagement. While the Russians have T-80s and T-90s etc, they mostly have used them up and don't really have any that are mission capable anymore since they're literally "refurbishing" T-54s to fight. I dunno how you refurbish a 69 year old tank, but I sure as gently caress wouldn't want to ride to battle in a rattletrap T-54 like the mobiks are getting. orange juche fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jan 15, 2023 |
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Jan 15, 2023 13:16
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orange juche posted:Metrication in the US is a loving mess This is a bit of a digression from the purpose of the thread, but metrication in Canada was considered a formal success on paper in the 80s and the reality is that pretty much everyone mixes metric and imperial/US standard measurements fluently, even sometimes in the same sentence. There's a meme flowchart out there about "how to measure things in Canada" that attempts to explain what system to use for measuring various things and it's more complicated than some business operations flowcharts I've seen and it's 99% accurate to my experience as a Canadian. A local example: where I live, numbered streets and blocks are all on a grid of 8 streets/survey blocks is one mile, so estimating distance by street/block numbers is easiest done in miles, despite all road signs and regulations etc. being in kilometres. If I say to someone around here "it's about a mile and a half east of here" they'll be able to infer the distance pretty much instantly because a mile and a half is twelve blocks, or the distance between eg. 204th Street and 216th Street. Sure, it's a bit shy of two and a half kilometres, but in my head it's a mile and a half, and I and all of the people I know from around here can visualize that. And it's not like I live in the middle of nowhere, either; this is within the greater Vancouver area. Also we use feet and inches for human height and pounds for human weight, and both solid and fluid cups for cooking, but most groceries are sold in metric measurements, eg. meat is sold in grams/kilograms and priced in $/kg and milk is sold in cartons or jugs of 0.5/1/2/4 litres. Butter, on the other hand, is sold by the pound. At any given point in time in this country you're juggling and mentally translating two different systems of measurement. Whenever I think about this I wonder how kids these days handle this kind of thing. I'm rapidly approaching 30 and this is normal to me but I wonder how someone who's 15 handles these kinds of measurements.
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Jan 15, 2023 14:32
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I think for the vast majority of people it doesn't matter and you get by with intuitively knowing how much of something a thing is. Butter might be sold by the pound, but you aren't actually buying it by the pound, you buy a block of butter. How much does a pound weight? It's the feeling of a block of butter in my hand. A pint is the amount of liquid that fits in a pint glass and I know what one of those looks like. If you aren't working with measurements then 99% of the numbers that exist in your daily life are the same every day.
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Jan 15, 2023 16:02
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Kazinsal posted:A local example: where I live, numbered streets and blocks are all on a grid of 8 streets/survey blocks is one mile, so estimating distance by street/block numbers is easiest done in miles, despite all road signs and regulations etc. being in kilometres. If I say to someone around here "it's about a mile and a half east of here" they'll be able to infer the distance pretty much instantly because a mile and a half is twelve blocks, or the distance between eg. 204th Street and 216th Street. Sure, it's a bit shy of two and a half kilometres, but in my head it's a mile and a half, and I and all of the people I know from around here can visualize that. Surrey/Langley? Anything fixed before metrification is still in imperial, including the streets. If I go back home to Manitoba everyone still talks in sections and measures in miles because they know how many sections away something is. It’s also handy because 1 mile = about a minute driving on a gravel road in the summer.
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Jan 15, 2023 16:12
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MrAmazing posted:Surrey/Langley? Anything fixed before metrification is still in imperial, including the streets. Driving ~60mph on a gravel road seems a bit fast 
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Jan 15, 2023 16:24
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Icon Of Sin posted:Driving ~60mph on a gravel road seems a bit fast Chip and tar, in the midwest. It gradually turns into a smoother surface. We have compacted, graded sand/dirt rural roads here, and plenty of idiots fly up and down them at 60+ all the time.
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Jan 15, 2023 16:33
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You know what's fun? Working on a car that uses both Imperial and Metric. I always had to keep two sets of sockets on hand when working on my '80s Firebird. Is this the case with most US military vehicles? I'd imagine HMMWVs are like this since they seem to use a good amount of GM parts. I wonder if eastern Europe still unofficially uses arshins and other old types of measurement despite being all metric on paper, like Canada and Australia do with Imperial.
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Jan 15, 2023 16:49
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Jimmy Smuts posted:You know what's fun? Working on a car that uses both Imperial and Metric. I always had to keep two sets of sockets on hand when working on my '80s Firebird. Is this the case with most US military vehicles? I'd imagine HMMWVs are like this since they seem to use a good amount of GM parts. Standard issue toolboxes for army mechanics (when I was in) came with both metric and standard. I doubt it's changed.
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Jan 15, 2023 17:17
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A.o.D. posted:How does the M1A1 compare with anything currently seen in the field on the Russian side though? It doesn't have to be better than the Challenger 2 to be effective, and it's not a case of "If we send older Abrams, you don't get Challengers". I think you can safely say that an M1A1 is no worse, in a spreadsheet analysis, than almost anything you would find on the battlefields of Ukraine. The only place where the “almost anything” comes into play is latest and greatest T-90s of which there are very few available to Russia. Providing even M1A1s in quantity would elevate the theoretical capabilities of the average Ukrainian armor unit to be at least on par with almost anything they would be tasked to fight and those units they don’t have technical superiority over they would outnumber. Where the real rub comes in is that the capabilities the US (and NATO) values in their tanks should also tend to provide better results on the battlefield regardless of the model of tank. Crew comfort is a higher priority in the west and would be expected to provide better outcomes when crews have been exposed to similar stresses and rigors during these many week deployments. Situational awareness is just better on M1s than any Russian tank. From more observation options to the commander to more people able to see the output of the best optics and IR sights should provide more examples of “the winner of the battle is the first crew to see the other one” Which goes hand in hand with the western tanks are just generally going to be able to acquire and engage targets better at night and at long ranges than almost anything Russia puts on the field. Much better reverse speeds (30+ mph for the west vs 5 for T-72/T-90) are surprisingly important to making the other guy miss or getting out of the way or just being able to better engage the enemy. Finally, western tankers often quote the ability of their guns to depress further as a significant advantage allowing them to use the terrain better to avoid exposing themselves while being able to engage the enemy but I expect this is going to be a lot more dependent on crew training and experience.
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Jan 15, 2023 18:18
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Is Chobam still a secret? I mean its been around for like 60 years I’m sure it’s more of a “secret” than an actual black box unknown at this point.
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Jan 15, 2023 19:24
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TK-42-1 posted:Is Chobam still a secret? I mean its been around for like 60 years I’m sure it’s more of a “secret” than an actual black box unknown at this point. It's another one of those "the real secret was the industrial process" things.
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Jan 15, 2023 19:42
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Icon Of Sin posted:Driving ~60mph on a gravel road seems a bit fast most gravel backroads ive experienced in canada are 80 km and its not uncommon to see someone doing 100 km
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Jan 16, 2023 01:20
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that's pretty fast for loose gravel but once it's packed/properly weathered into a baked mud and gravel layer you can haul rear end on gravel roads
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Jan 16, 2023 01:30
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Herstory Begins Now posted:that's pretty fast for loose gravel but once it's packed/properly weathered into a baked mud and gravel layer you can haul rear end on gravel roads Yeah the gravel road speed limit here is 50mph which is totally fine, except sometimes the county will dump a poo poo ton of fresh gravel on a spot and then 35mph+ becomes straight up perilous. When it's packed down and properly graded you can pretty safely go 60 or 70 in most passenger vehicles. 80mph and you start feeling like you're on the edge of stability IMO. I usually stick to 50ish.
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Jan 16, 2023 01:43
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Kazinsal posted:This is a bit of a digression from the purpose of the thread, but metrication in Canada was considered a formal success on paper in the 80s and the reality is that pretty much everyone mixes metric and imperial/US standard measurements fluently, even sometimes in the same sentence. There's a meme flowchart out there about "how to measure things in Canada" that attempts to explain what system to use for measuring various things and it's more complicated than some business operations flowcharts I've seen and it's 99% accurate to my experience as a Canadian. The most confusing part of all of this is you just admitted to being a goon under 30.... 
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Jan 16, 2023 01:49
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Bum the Sad posted:The most confusing part of all of this is you just admitted to being a goon under 30.... Someone in the gbs weed thread just turned 30 the other day. What would be weird is a 20 y/o goon.
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Jan 16, 2023 01:52
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