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Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 19 minutes!
As if not knowing who to blame ever stopped me before.

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Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!

Pollyanna posted:

My current team expects everyone under the same umbrella organization to pull their weight on everything software, network engineering, graph modeling, device curation, and infrastructure/deployment as needed. We tend to be the catchall bucket for any work to unblock the org’s current pet project, so I know way more and call way more shots than I should.

Site reliability engineer?

captkirk
Feb 5, 2010

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Site reliability engineer?

SREs, they're like SWEs but they know how computers work.

Hughlander
May 11, 2005

Pollyanna posted:

My current team expects everyone under the same umbrella organization to pull their weight on everything software, network engineering, graph modeling, device curation, and infrastructure/deployment as needed. We tend to be the catchall bucket for any work to unblock the org’s current pet project, so I know way more and call way more shots than I should.

If poo poo ever breaks, you know who to blame 😋

This is what video game players think game dev is like. "Why are they wasting time with new models and animations and not fixing the lag! Anyone not working on rebalancing this weapon needs to be fired!"

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Hughlander posted:

This is what video game players think game dev is like. "Why are they wasting time with new models and animations and not fixing the lag! Anyone not working on rebalancing this weapon needs to be fired!"
In truth, 95% of game dev is managing piles of extremely burnt out people, where you want them to have enough camaraderie that they stop literally abusing each other, but not so much that they all quit at the same time or unionize. Out of the engineering team, there are four people who know everything about the engine but never talk to each other, and dozens or hundreds of other people who are constantly in meetings but still work with little or no intentionality at all

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Hughlander posted:

This is what video game players think game dev is like. "Why are they wasting time with new models and animations and not fixing the lag! Anyone not working on rebalancing this weapon needs to be fired!"

Lots of people think this way about EVERYTHING. "Why is the government working on X when Y is still a problem?" as if it's impossible to be working on multiple objectives simultaneously.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

New Yorp New Yorp posted:

as if it's impossible to be working on multiple objectives simultaneously.
"At a large organization" the big problem is that when you depend on another team but their priorities are not aligned with yours, and if you're not allowed to go fix it for them (edit: and if the managers are afraid to escalate to leadership about it, to secure that alignment)... then it actually is impossible to work on multiple objectives simultaneously. Entangling dependencies are everywhere.

Love Stole the Day fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jan 11, 2023

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!

Vulture Culture posted:

In truth, 95% of game dev is managing piles of extremely burnt out people, where you want them to have enough camaraderie that they stop literally abusing each other, but not so much that they all quit at the same time or unionize. Out of the engineering team, there are four people who know everything about the engine but never talk to each other, and dozens or hundreds of other people who are constantly in meetings but still work with little or no intentionality at all

Wait I thought I worked in semiconductors but I think I work at a game company now.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you

Vulture Culture posted:

In truth, 95% of game dev is managing piles of extremely burnt out people, where you want them to have enough camaraderie that they stop literally abusing each other, but not so much that they all quit at the same time or unionize. Out of the engineering team, there are four people who know everything about the engine but never talk to each other, and dozens or hundreds of other people who are constantly in meetings but still work with little or no intentionality at all

Please stop doxxing me

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Rocko Bonaparte posted:

Site reliability engineer?

Hell motherfucking no. I write software to translate network graph models into network device configuration snippets, my job should be very specifically about what it takes to get from point A to point B. I do not want to care about point C or country X.

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!

Pollyanna posted:

Hell motherfucking no. I write software to translate network graph models into network device configuration snippets, my job should be very specifically about what it takes to get from point A to point B. I do not want to care about point C or country X.

It really dotted the i's and crossed the t's though. I guess the exception was no mention of always being on-call.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

New Yorp New Yorp posted:

Lots of people think this way about EVERYTHING. "Why is the government working on X when Y is still a problem?" as if it's impossible to be working on multiple objectives simultaneously.

Pro tip: they don't actually care about Y, they just don't want X and are using whataboutism.

AgentF
May 11, 2009

Volmarias posted:

Pro tip: they don't actually care about Y, they just don't want X and are using whataboutism.

See every argument against tackling climate change.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Rocko Bonaparte posted:

It really dotted the i's and crossed the t's though. I guess the exception was no mention of always being on-call.

Yeah my team is way overloaded because this org is all sortsa crazy. I have no idea why or how, and honestly I don’t want to do management or PM work so I have no idea how to help.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Pollyanna posted:

Yeah my team is way overloaded because this org is all sortsa crazy. I have no idea why or how, and honestly I don’t want to do management or PM work so I have no idea how to help.

Reading this as if the distressed cat in your av is writing it

Che Delilas
Nov 23, 2009
FREE TIBET WEED
So I put my notice at my current company at the beginning of the year, and my last day is today. In those two weeks, I've heard that
1. They're going to actually start enforcing their return to office policy with some kind of consequences, next month.
2. They're trying to figure out how to evaluate team performance; so far they've come up with the following ideas:
- Number of commits
- Number of PRs
- "Jira tickets" (unsure if that means the number of tickets closed or something else)

I knew the first was coming, that's why I started replying to recruiters in the first place. But I feel like I Matrix-dodged out of the way of the second one. Yeesh.

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
Got a meeting with the CEO next week because "this Chat-GBT thing is big, how can you help us be the first to deliver it to Norway" :stare:

Nybble
Jun 28, 2008

praise chuck, raise heck
sounds like you just lucked into a business trip to Norway

prom candy
Dec 16, 2005

Only I may dance

Nybble posted:

sounds like you just lucked into a business trip to Norway

i'm not sure if Chat-GBT will fit in their luggage though

thotsky
Jun 7, 2005

hot to trot
As far as I know that poo poo is proprietary and they don't allow self-hosting so not sure what the guy wants.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
Work smarter. Don't introduce it to Norway, introduce Norway to IT.

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Lutefisk.

Wibla
Feb 16, 2011

Akevitt.

AgentF
May 11, 2009
Website in the Norway TLD that redirects to ChatGPT. Collect paycheck.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
My team's at the end of the stream of a bunch of other teams working on our upstream dependencies. All of which are scrambling to implement and integrate, leaving us without enough time to integrate ourselves because they all just barely get their deliverables presentable moments before the demo. I've been calling out since we "estimated" our December deliverables that these were wildly optimistic and relied on everything falling perfectly into place, but got back that we'd just have to call this out as we went and that we wouldn't really be held too closely to our promises. I kept raising the issue as the ensuing month proved that, weirdly, things wouldn't just magically come together. Leadership, weirdly, held to their arbitrary milestone deadline and expressed displeasure at the incomplete delivery.

tl;dr: refer to the title of the thread

We've been hearing that we've got an unusually aggressive Q1 perf review process starting. At this point I wouldn't mind a month of funemployment.

Love Stole the Day
Nov 4, 2012
Please give me free quality professional advice so I can be a baby about it and insult you
You gotta document it and remind the managers about it every time you update it, so that they remember what to discuss in their meetings with the other teams' managers.

Make an article with a table that has these columns: created (date), updated (date), blocked by (team), severity (low or high), what you think should happen to mitigate the risk, and finally a description of the risk. Delete the row (or gray out its text and move it to the bottom) whenever an issue is resolved.

That way, next time you're in this situation, you can say that managers knew the risks from the start. Look at all the unresolved stuff in this article and your suggested mitigation steps that everyone ignored!

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Love Stole the Day posted:

You gotta document it and remind the managers about it every time you update it, so that they remember what to discuss in their meetings with the other teams' managers.

Make an article with a table that has these columns: created (date), updated (date), blocked by (team), severity (low or high), what you think should happen to mitigate the risk, and finally a description of the risk. Delete the row (or gray out its text and move it to the bottom) whenever an issue is resolved.

That way, next time you're in this situation, you can say that managers knew the risks from the start. Look at all the unresolved stuff in this article and your suggested mitigation steps that everyone ignored!
That's a great recommendation. Documenting these risks more explicitly should help discourage the tendency to handwave them away and give us something to point back to if we need to.

ChickenWing
Jul 22, 2010

:v:

Just be careful about how you're presenting it because aggressive CYA can get you labelled "not a team player" real quick

StumblyWumbly
Sep 12, 2007

Batmanticore!
The risk log should also get more and more specific as time goes on, otherwise its just fearmongering.

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

ChickenWing posted:

Just be careful about how you're presenting it because aggressive CYA can get you labelled "not a team player" real quick

also there's a good chance this will be called out as being Not Your Job. ime charts like that are created by, maintained by, and for project people

smackfu
Jun 7, 2004

Is it just inevitable that like 30% of our new graduate hires are just not suited to work in software? Either slow, lazy, or cursed, but with no signs of improvement after a year.

(“Cursed” is the people who run into problems every time they check out a new project that works fine for everyone else.)

Sagacity
May 2, 2003
Hopefully my epitaph will be funnier than my custom title.

smackfu posted:


(“Cursed” is the people who run into problems every time they check out a new project that works fine for everyone else.)
I will be using this term from now on, thanks!

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Some people aren't cut out for software development at all, but others need a little handholding at first or might just not be a good fit for your environment. What are you doing to support your junior devs and make sure the ones who can eventually cut it are getting help?

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed
Our "new grad success rate" which is based in some way on how many of them get promotions to non-junior roles is over 90%. I have no idea how much this is due to effective training and support and how much is just due to pre-filtering via the intern program, though.

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012




ultrafilter posted:

Some people aren't cut out for software development at all, but others need a little handholding at first or might just not be a good fit for your environment. What are you doing to support your junior devs and make sure the ones who can eventually cut it are getting help?

You do need to set people up for success but sometimes cursed folk at are the absolute worst. They always run into problems and have no curiosity or ability to actually resolve the issue. It's just something you can't really teach, they have to want to fix the issue.

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

smackfu posted:

Is it just inevitable that like 30% of our new graduate hires are just not suited to work in software? Either slow, lazy, or cursed, but with no signs of improvement after a year.

(“Cursed” is the people who run into problems every time they check out a new project that works fine for everyone else.)

I'm naturally cursed and it took years for me to grow out of it. I would get anxiety whenever I would open a new project because it would invariably break in some new spectacular way. I feel like I've had to get 3x as good at troubleshooting as everyone else because building new projects would never loving work and no one could explain why, but most I imagine give up.

Bruegels Fuckbooks fucked around with this message at 22:52 on Jan 16, 2023

a dingus
Mar 22, 2008

Rhetorical questions only
Fun Shoe
Most of the new grad hires or interns I've worked with have been good. They're eager and excited and haven't seen enough poo poo to be jaded yet. It's the contractors who are often cursed. Half of them can't even read a stack trace.

Pedestrian Xing
Jul 19, 2007

I've had one "buddy" (short term mentee) at my current job and they did really well. Was kind of fun. I'm not sure we have any juniors left at all.

brand engager
Mar 23, 2011

Does formatting not work in slack workflow variables? I'm trying to format commits sent like
`hash` message
`hash` message

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Jamus
Feb 10, 2007

smackfu posted:

(“Cursed” is the people who run into problems every time they check out a new project that works fine for everyone else.)

I used to work with a guy who'd somehow always run into absurd problems nobody else did. Not out of lack of technical ability, just really bad luck? I could never figure it out. He was curious enough and driven to solve his own problems eventually. I got into the habit of making him run my stuff on his machine just to shake out some fresh interesting bugs/documentation problems

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