[Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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ContinuityNewTimes: Dec 30, 2010; Я выдуман напрочь

They'll never be Big Israel if they can't shoot down missiles

# ? Jan 15, 2023 21:31

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# ? May 26, 2024 22:28

Turtle Watch: Jul 30, 2010; by Games Forum

gradenko_2000 posted:

https://twitter.com/itsginnydi/status/1611514509553991681?t=bRkM2tVkbJ6_jTTqMSTYjA&s=19

Complaints about tusks, she doesn�t even have to film a whole movie!

Paula Patton is goated with the tusks

�But those tusks - not the monster-sized horns of other orcs - still needed some getting used to without dribbling.

"I needed to stretch out my bottom lip, so I would wear them around the house, make it fit my mouth and not sound ridiculous when I spoke," she said.�

It�s not just that [Paula�s costume] is skimpy,� Kebbel told us, �It was freezing in Vancouver� but she had to walk out and do that and be that person right from the beginning when everyone�s in cool armour wearing wigs, looking awesome, and she�s wearing tusks and dealing with dry mouth.�

# ? Jan 15, 2023 21:35

mawarannahr: May 21, 2019; Can't post for 5 hours!

🌐

https://twitter.com/tsihanouskaya/status/1614723513528553474

# ? Jan 15, 2023 21:52

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

every time i see ukranians on twitter screaming at people to not buy videogames made by russians or funded by russian companies i really feel bad for them because they clearly have no idea how many lovely governments fund all sorts of media and theres no way to escape it, america, china, saudi arabia, etc. all these people have massive shares in all sorts of media enterprises.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:09

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

Al-Saqr posted:

drat i should really splurge 100 bucks and get a big slab of beef and make a roast beef and cheddar sandwich

I didn't know Arby's was on Goldbelly

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:10

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

Futanari Damacy posted:

I didn't know Arby's was on Goldbelly

https://youtu.be/L9Z66QI_fKU

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:14

Futanari Damacy: Oct 30, 2021; by sebmojo

Frosted Flake posted:

I don�t want to say �relish�, but I find it interesting when Ukraine is struggling while trying to create a media narrative, given how ironclad the message discipline behind them is.

It takes time to get your stories straight when you and your buddies shoot down a missile en route to hit a substation and because of you specifically loving up it hits a residential building instead. You don't care, but it might mean someone in the west might feel bad about giving you more guns if they knew the truth.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:19

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Al-Saqr posted:

every time i see ukranians on twitter screaming at people to not buy videogames made by russians or funded by russian companies i really feel bad for them because they clearly have no idea how many lovely governments fund all sorts of media and theres no way to escape it, america, china, saudi arabia, etc. all these people have massive shares in all sorts of media enterprises.

Ah but you see, Russia is uniquely evil, worse even than the nazis.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:36

speng31b: May 8, 2010

If you cancel icepick lodge games you're the one who loses, ill still play the heck out of it

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:41

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

Weka posted:

Ah but you see, Russia is uniquely evil, worse even than the nazis.

Cold War propaganda really did melt the brains of entire generations into believing exactly that

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:44

dk2m: May 6, 2009

i've traveled overseas for a bit in asia and the reaction to this war was fascinating, it ranged from people who didn't give a poo poo about it, to being non-aligned but still wary of the west's poo poo, to supportive of the donbass but not exactly pro-russia

its wild that they would have all been considered putin supporters if they lived here

i didn't really meet anyone that was outright pro-ukraine or pro-russia too, it was either total non-chalance or a some sort of nuanced take

even the media i was watching was much more "news" like than editorializing that is now just considered news here

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:47

redneck nazgul: Apr 25, 2013

look either you get a saint javelin tattoo or you want to be putin's concubine, i don't make the rules

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:49

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

Not So Fast posted:

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/1614623778872369154?t=pFIfVpkwWOzvMm_qbu33Jg&s=19

Warlord era for Russia, this is fine

https://twitter.com/andersostlund/status/1614518657874333697?s=20&t=x378lrdImz1MaESgy-GVtg

It's ok we will buy all the nukes.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:54

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

lol at the idea of people just selling you nukes after you caused the downfall of their entire civilization

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:56

speng31b: May 8, 2010

Truga posted:

lol at the idea of people just selling you nukes after you caused the downfall of their entire civilization

once you complete the balkanize Russia quest they just start selling them at the npc shops

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:58

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

also lol at the idea of warlords needing to sell nukes instead of, maybe wanting to keep them on account of being warlords???

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:59

dk2m: May 6, 2009

redneck nazgul posted:

look either you get a saint javelin tattoo or you want to be putin's concubine, i don't make the rules

# ? Jan 15, 2023 22:59

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

They�re really not bringing out their best brain commanders

Unless they are, which is depressing

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:00

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

Number will save the day

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:01

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

i mean, if russia somehow breaks apart over the stupid proxy war, some those nukes are definitely going to end up in washdc by express shipping :v:

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:03

Jel Shaker: Apr 19, 2003

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

https://twitter.com/andersostlund/status/1614518657874333697?s=20&t=x378lrdImz1MaESgy-GVtg

It's ok we will buy all the nukes.

honest question why didn�t the us buy all the nukes, i thought yeltsin was a stooge so surely they could have right?

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:04

dk2m: May 6, 2009

major think tanks like Hudson Institute are explicitly lobbying for balkanization as an opportunity for western governments and institutions to finally destroy russia after we came close but couldn't seal the deal in the 90s

https://www.hudson.org/foreign-policy/preparing-final-collapse-soviet-union-dissolution-russian-federation

quote:

The success of Ukraine on the battlefield against Russia could offer a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to put Russia back inside its geopolitical box for a generation. This would create a new geopolitical reality not seen in a generation.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:06

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

One of the big issues with the nuclear arsenal of a failed state is that without constant supervision and maintenance, those fuelled up and ready to launch missiles will quickly degrade and start leaking horrible chemical fog all over the place, and may even explode in their tubes. The actual nuclear payload doesn�t even need to go off for these things to be incredibly dangerous.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:09

genericnick: Dec 26, 2012

Jel Shaker posted:

honest question why didn�t the us buy all the nukes, i thought yeltsin was a stooge so surely they could have right?

I assume if he had tried someone would have shot him.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:11

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

Jel Shaker posted:

honest question why didn’t the us buy all the nukes, i thought yeltsin was a stooge so surely they could have right?

Yeltsin's Russia was already completely prostate before the west, no need to waste money on further weakening it.

Balkanise Russia types in 2022 might regret that but it's impossible for them to see 1 yet alone 30 yrs ahead

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:12

Fated To Be Fat: May 23, 2009; A branch without a tree.

Frosted Flake posted:

The Finnish map in The Hunter: Call of the Wild is a nice pastoral experience of mostly upland bird and waterfowl hunting, and the Finnish janitor in Control did a lot to further the narrative and add to the atmosphere, so obviously I�m conflicted.

Disco Elysium has 2 Finnish inspired characters: An obsessive autistic coder and a feral psychopath kid. These are also the 2 main types of a Finn that exist. Other common types are village idiot, the lucky drunk and the much maligned coast-fennoswede.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:13

speng31b: May 8, 2010

Jel Shaker posted:

honest question why didn’t the us buy all the nukes, i thought yeltsin was a stooge so surely they could have right?

he was too obvious a stooge to have the support within Russia to do that kind of stuff. maybe if we hadn't constantly favored NATO expansionism at every turn, we'd be in a different place today.

tbh the plan wasn't to disarm Russia because there would be no reason to if they just played the role the US wanted and plugged into europe as a big beautiful client state.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:21

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Yeltsin's Russia was already completely prostate before the west

whoa

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:22

Grimnarsson: Sep 4, 2018

Fated To Be Fat posted:

village idiot, the lucky drunk and the much maligned coast-fennoswede.

This is one type.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:23

Endman: May 18, 2010; That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even anime may die

If I was a Soviet missile base commander in 1991 I would make Yeltsin kiss my boots before I handed anything over

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:25

dk2m: May 6, 2009

Endman posted:

One of the big issues with the nuclear arsenal of a failed state is that without constant supervision and maintenance, those fuelled up and ready to launch missiles will quickly degrade and start leaking horrible chemical fog all over the place, and may even explode in their tubes. The actual nuclear payload doesn�t even need to go off for these things to be incredibly dangerous.

Not to mention that securing and maintaining these facilities deep in the heartland of inhospitable places will require a coalition invasion, which means security co-operations with places like China and forging alliances across patchwork nationalist groups that would emerge in any serious vaccum - it's not a realistic situation that we could ever hope to contain

ironically, it would be much easier to have a strong central government in Moscow to clamp down on the dangers that fragmentation would pose, which would inevitably lead to the exact same succession dynamics as Yeltsin to Putin as russia reasserts itself

But apparently you don't need to know any history or know anything at all to get a job at some prestigious think tank saying insane poo poo

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:25

Slim Jim Pickens: Jan 16, 2012

Weka posted:

The difference is in how well it copes with those threats and in how well it performs it's purpose, ie breakthroughs.

Tanks do not cope with mines or uavs or artillery, they are all about as vulnerable to such things as any other. The Leopard and Challenger might actually cope very poorly with kamikaze drones because they have thinly armoured ammunition bustles in the turret.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:26

Weka: May 5, 2019; That child totally had it coming. Nobody should be able to be out at dusk except cars.

Jel Shaker posted:

honest question why didn�t the us buy all the nukes, i thought yeltsin was a stooge so surely they could have right?

Yeltsin was not an absolute dictator.

Endman posted:

They�re really not bringing out their best brain commanders

Unless they are, which is depressing

It makes me happy.

Grimnarsson posted:

This is one type.

I am NOT a fennoswede!

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:32

Fat-Lip-Sum-41.mp3: Nov 15, 2003

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Yeltsin's Russia was already completely prostate before the west, no need to waste money on further weakening it.

hitting yeltsin's spot

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:33

lobster shirt: Jun 14, 2021

Endman posted:

One of the big issues with the nuclear arsenal of a failed state is that without constant supervision and maintenance, those fuelled up and ready to launch missiles will quickly degrade and start leaking horrible chemical fog all over the place, and may even explode in their tubes. The actual nuclear payload doesn�t even need to go off for these things to be incredibly dangerous.

dont solid fuel icbms not really have these issues? its the liquid fuel that is fuckin dangerous and maintenance intensive.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:35

SplitSoul: Dec 31, 2000

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Yeltsin's Russia was already completely prostate before the west

That's a victim alright.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:36

speng31b: May 8, 2010

ModernMajorGeneral posted:

Yeltsin's Russia was already completely prostate before the west

thread title

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:37

ModernMajorGeneral: Jun 25, 2010

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:39

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Found an interesting essay about our favourite region any why nationalism and anti-semitism are inexorably linked:

The Pogrom of Jews During and After World War I: The Destruction
of the Jewish Idea of Galicia

Jagoda Wierzejska posted:

Abstract The idea of Galicia was a transnational political concept which repre- sented a multinational coexistence in a situation of irrevocable national divisions and growing nationalist tendencies in the Austrian province called the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria. The Jewish variant of this idea was connected with the emergence of a specific Jewish-Galician identity which enabled the Galician Jews to identify with the province, in all its national and religious diversity, and with the Habsburg empire as a whole. The destruction of the Jewish idea of Galicia was connected with the outpouring of anti-Semitism expressed in the form of violence and pogroms after 1914. That tragic phenomenon was described, among others, by Ansky (Shloyme Zanvl Rappoport), Abraham Insler, Icchak Gr�nbaum, and Emil Tenenbaum. The most catastrophic event for the Galician Jews was the pogrom in Lviv in November 1918, which followed the outbreak of the Polish-Ukrainian War, and which was long falsified by Poles, the winners in the said war. The pogrom began an immense growth of anti-Semitism in the Second Polish Republic which signalled the end of the Jewish idea of Galicia.

Introduction

The great area of East-Central Europe that extends north from the Carpathian Mountains, between 1772 and 1918, under Austrian rule was officially known as the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, and commonly referred to as Galicia. Since its creation in 1772, as a result of the first partition of Poland, Galicia seemed to be an artificial solution, unable to find legitimacy for its geopolitical existence, either in pre-Austrian history or geography. The only warrant for the incorporation of the region into the Habsburg Empire was the need to maintain the balance of power in Europe as it was understood at that time. Austria had never lodged any claims to the Polish territory but had to take part in the partitions masterminded by Russia and Prussia. In the wake of that move, the Habsburgs acquired a territory that was not only separated from the Hungarian part of the later monarchy by the Carpathian Mountains, but first and foremost differed from the rest of the country in terms of politics, social and economic relations, as well as ethnic and religious structure.

The latter phenomenon is related to the fact that Galicia throughout its history was inhabited by a multiplicity of people of disparate cultural backgrounds. The three main groups in the province were Poles, Ruthenians (who considered them- selves Ukrainians from the second half of the nineteenth century onwards), and Jews. Although the Habsburg authorities manipulated census data to suit their own political purposes (Magocsi, 2005, p. 7), we can conclude, according to a survey by Paul Robert Magocsi, that in 1910 Galicia had 7.9 million inhabitants: 45.4% were Poles, 42.9% Ukrainians, and 10.9% Jews. In Eastern Galicia, however, Ukrainians formed a majority as 62% of the population, with 25.5% Polish, and 8.2% Jewish (Magocsi, 1983, p. 225; Magocsi, 1996, pp. 423�424; Magocsi, 2005, pp. 7�8). Other groups present in Galicia were Germans encouraged by the Habsburg regime to settle in the countryside colonies in the east part of the region, Armenians, Lemko-Rusyns, and Russians.

In the eyes of the Austrian authorities, such an immensely heterogenous pro- vince, whose position within the Habsburg Empire was uncertain until 1815, a clearly discernible fact during the Napoleonic interlude, needed a strong connection with the rest of the country to be maintainable in its boundaries. What served the purpose of bringing about the dependence of Galicia on the Austrian imperial state was a specific Habsburg political culture comprising elements of both history and fantasy. This political culture, which Larry Wolff (2010) describes using the notion of the idea of Galicia, aimed at presenting the province as a common and coherent territory, which all the inhabitants regardless of nationality could identify with. Wolff (2010) explains this goal as follows: �A Galician identity might (...) serve to reconcile Polish and German with Ruthenian and Jewish elements within the province. The invention of Galicia in the eighteenth century called for the invention of Galicians in the nineteenth century� (p. 80). Indeed, during the course of the nineteenth century a peculiar Galician identity emerged among the dwellers of the province. It was expressed in at least four languages, Polish, Ukrainian, Yiddish, and German: Galicia�s Poles regarded themselves as Galicyjanie, Galicia�s Ukrainians as Halychany, Galicia�s Jews as Galitzianer, and Galicia�s Germans as Galiziendeutsche. Nevertheless, in the case of each group Galician identity sug- gested a sense of being from the particular crown land of Galicia. Until national tensions were unleashed in the late nineteenth century, this sense could exist not only beside Austrian affiliation obliquely connected with it, but also apart from a national association seemingly opposite to it.

According to Wolff�s (2010) explanation, �Galicia was to be ultimately vindi- cated by an ideology of reconciliation: imperial totality and national rights, the national past and the provincial present� (Wolff, 2010, p. 261). The ideology inquestion or, in short, the idea of Galicia should be conceived as a concept in which a concrete geopolitical reality�a province of the Habsburg monarchy existing between 1772 and 1918�has been identified with certain ideological and cultural meanings. In the first half of the nineteenth century, this idea functioned as a transcendent political concept, opening the possibility of transnational convergence within the Habsburg heterogeneity. In the second half of the century, it represented a multinational coexistence in a situation of irrevocable national divisions and in the face of growing nationalist tendencies. In this paper I am going to present the Jewish variant of the idea of Galicia and two stages of its destruction: first, World War I, second, the Poles� struggle for a Southeastern frontier of reborn Poland. Reconstructing the cultural and socio-political background of the idea under study, I intend to point out what impact its collapse had on the Jewish population of the province. My objective is to show that after military and political turmoil in the period 1914�1919, the Galician Jews found themselves not only in a new country� the Second Polish Republic instead of Habsburg monarchy�but also in new cir- cumstances, much more complex and unfavorable than prewar ones.

...

This way of conceiving Galicia resulted in the emergence of a Jewish-Galician identity, which enabled the Galician Jews to identify with the province, in all its national and religious diversity, and more or less (rather more than less) directly with the Habsburg Empire as a whole. In the nineteenth century, a vast majority of the Galician Jews started to consider themselves Galitzianer. This type of self-understanding lacked nationalistic pathos and a sense of strife with other national groups. Instead, it was predicated upon the moderately balanced circum- stances of existence in the province. Such an affiliation reflects in the way Torten explains what patriotism for the Galician Jews is: �We want the government to prosper. Why? Because then the citizens prosper too� (Tenenbaum, 1935, p. 55). Despite its apparent simplicity, Jewish-Galician identity was strong enough to let Galitzianer distinguish themselves from Litvaks, the Jews coming to the Congress Poland from the Russian pale of settlement, foremost from the western gover- norates, nowadays Lithuania and Byelorussia. That same identification survived amid over 3,00,000 immigrants who had come to the United States from Galicia for economic reasons between 1881 and 1914 (Soyer, 1997, pp. 23�27). For those immigrants, as well as for the Jews who decided to stay in the province, the Galician-Jewish identity remained the core of the idea of Galicia.

...

The writer begins his narrative with a characterisation of Russian propaganda and points out the anti-Semitic stereotypes strongly present in it from at least the second half of the nineteenth century. As a result of such trends, from the Russian perspective, the Galician Jews were presented as a group supporting the Germans and Austrians since the very outbreak of the war. The Russian mania for espionage was fostered by the image of a Jew-traitor watching every step of tsarist troops, signalling to the Austrian army, indicating which places to bomb, and cutting Russian telegraph wires. On the other hand, Ansky notes that such propaganda found a fertile ground in the moods of the Poles and Ukrainians having lived in the Galician areas occupied by the Russian army. Polish-Ukrainian-Jewish conflicts, present in Galicia before 1914, but to a considerable extent palliated by the abovementioned political culture of the Habsburg Empire in general, and the pro- vince in particular, broke out during the war with a boldness unseen before. The Galician Jews tried to maintain their balance between Poles and Ukrainians, and shifted their sympathy from one of these nationalities to the other. �Because of these shifts, the various ethnic groups resented the Jews all the more and viewed their behaviour as treacherous,� admits Ansky (2003, p. 64; see also von Hagen, 2007, pp. 30�37; Borodziej & G�rny, 2014, pp. 286�290).

...

What the future author of The Dybbuk (2003) observes and understands in Galicia is the identity of the local Jews based on non-national loyalty to the Habsburg monarchy.

(...) the generally favourable political situation gave Galician Jews a feeling of self-worth and security, a conscious sense of being full-fledged citizens. Their Austrian patriotism was strong, and their dedication to the old Kaiser, Franz Joseph, was cultlike. They loved him deeply and respected him as their protector and helper. At the start of the war, Austria�s Poles were in an ambiguous position, while the Ruthenians stood apart from everyone. The Galician Jews, however, stuck to their pro-Austrian orientation, flaunting it in the most delicate of circumstances, with no concerns for horrible consequences. Their self-scarifying allegiance was extraordinary. I saw Jews shedding bitter tears when they heard about the fall of Przemyśl to the Russians. (Ansky, 2003, p. 64)

It goes on, I highly recommend giving it a read.

The more I read about this stuff, the more it makes sense. Of course an Israeli national was killed on the first day of the present war as a "saboteur". Of course there has been a wave of antisemitic and anti-Roma violence for the same reason. Of course Ukrainian Canadians memorialize a loving Waffen SS division as the first and idealized expression of national independence. It goes unspoken in the current hagiography of Ukraine that the strain of nationalism we are supporting, arming, facilitating, staged a coup for is completely and inexorably tied to pogrom as an expression of national liberty.

So much here explains events since 2014 I'm frustrated that nobody has written about it much yet. One thing I will say, it does make the election of Zelensky almost incomprehensible as well as the "Big Israel" comments, since Ukrainian nationalism considers war against Jews as one in the same as war against the "Imperial" powers: Austria, Poland, the USSR, and the Russian Federation, that they associate with protecting Jews, and of course oppressing themselves, in the province.

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:39

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# ? May 26, 2024 22:28

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

mawarannahr posted:

🌐

https://twitter.com/tsihanouskaya/status/1614723513528553474

that�s not what bilateral means !!

# ? Jan 15, 2023 23:40

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Ukraine] EU: Nice minister, shame if something were to happen...

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