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X-Factor #7 is the second issue Louise Simonson wrote. X-Factor #6 is the first issue Louise Simonson wrote, which retconned the planned shadowy mastermind into a new character, Apocalypse. Previously Layton was going to have it be The Owl. So on some level it's fair to say that everything Simonson did was building off of but wildly diverging from Layton's original outline, which may not have included the whole "this is a bad idea", either in-universe or editorially. Mutant Massacre started two issues later.
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Jan 16, 2023 05:55
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Edge & Christian posted:X-Factor #7 is the second issue Louise Simonson wrote. It says that Louise started at #9.
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Jan 16, 2023 06:16
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MonsterEnvy posted:It says that Louise started at #9. I dont know what "it" youre referring to is because with my eyes and my brain, i can see the issue X-Factor #6 and see the writer credited being Louise Simonson and not Bob Layton
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Jan 16, 2023 06:25
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Alaois posted:I dont know what "it" youre referring to is because with my eyes and my brain, i can see the issue X-Factor #6 and see the writer credited being Louise Simonson and not Bob Layton Marvel Unlimited and the Marvel Website.   
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 06:28
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There are a lot of CMS errors on the Marvel Unlimited site, based on the actual published comic books Louise Simonson did in fact write X-Factor #6: Looking back at solicitations, Layton was originally listed as the writer for X-Factor #6, but by the time previews came out for issue 7, Simonson had replaced him:   Not that I think that they were combing through old issues of Marvel Age for solicited creator info to fill out those pages. For what it's worth, based on the actual comics (and even more obviously just looking at it), X-Factor #8 was not only written by Louise Simonson, it was drawn by Marc Silvestri (with finishes by Joe Rubenstein, originally solicited as Guice), so that listing is doubly wrong. I feel like whoever did the data entry for Marvel Unlimited did a lot of wild "Ctrl+D" to fill in fields or something. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 06:40
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Silvestri is too cool. I wish I was part of a CyberForce.
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Jan 16, 2023 06:44
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Edge & Christian posted:There are a lot of CMS errors on the Marvel Unlimited site, based on the actual published comic books Louise Simonson did in fact write X-Factor #6: Marvel Unlimited is also missing the letters pages a lot of the time, I am interested in seeing people's thoughts back then.
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Jan 16, 2023 06:48
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That and the pre-letters monologue by the author are a big plus for singles. Especially Kirkman books, Brubaker back matter, that's good stuff. I noticed Walking Dead and also Duggan's Deadpool included the note by the author on the end of the run thing in the trades too, which is nice to see.
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Jan 16, 2023 06:50
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Edge & Christian posted:X-Factor #6 is the first issue Louise Simonson wrote, which retconned the planned shadowy mastermind into a new character, Apocalypse. Previously Layton was going to have it be The Owl. Why haven't we ever gotten an Age of the Owl alternate universe?!
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Jan 16, 2023 07:54
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I still can't imagine how lame that would have been. The Owl.
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Jan 16, 2023 08:42
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It would have been perfectly in line with the dreary dreadfulness of the first six on X-Factor. Simonson really made something out of nothing there.
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Jan 16, 2023 09:13
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Android Blues posted:It would have been perfectly in line with the dreary dreadfulness of the first six on X-Factor. Simonson really made something out of nothing there. bob layton's first attempt at creating a hot new young mutant in his very first issue of x-factor really sums up everything about it: rusty collins
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Jan 16, 2023 09:39
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How different would comics be now if Jean Grey had just stayed dead back then?
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Jan 16, 2023 09:57
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Alaois posted:bob layton's first attempt at creating a hot new young mutant in his very first issue of x-factor really sums up everything about it: rusty collins https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Russell_Collins_(Earth-616)#Krakoa lol "finally"
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Jan 16, 2023 13:09
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Still doing better than Hollow, who apparently just got eaten by Monet.
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Jan 16, 2023 16:01
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PoptartsNinja posted:Still doing better than Hollow, who apparently just got eaten by Monet. Wait, I thought Hollow WAS Monet. Did she eat her sisters?
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Jan 16, 2023 17:59
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Dawgstar posted:Wait, I thought Hollow WAS Monet. Did she eat her sisters? okay so when Penance was revealed to be Monet and M was revealed to be Monet's sisters in Generation X, the twins switched places with Monet in the Penance body as... penance for impersonating her and letting her be trapped in the body. Then an explosion freed them from the Penance body but the body kept operating autonomously, and the autonomous Penance body became Hollow. because everything about the St. Croix family is so straightforward
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Jan 16, 2023 19:37
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Jan 16, 2023 19:42
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apparently when Hollow showed up in the Loners, written by C.B. Cebulski, he teased in an interview that there was a new consciousness that took over the body and the identity of this consciousness would be revealed later in the book! and then seemingly never actually was lmao
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Jan 16, 2023 20:00
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So you're saying she's a mystery mutant?
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Jan 16, 2023 20:21
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Alaois posted:apparently when Hollow showed up in the Loners, written by C.B. Cebulski, he teased in an interview that there was a new consciousness that took over the body and the identity of this consciousness would be revealed later in the book! CB Cebulski with unanswered questions about identity you say?
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Jan 16, 2023 20:42
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Alaois posted:okay so when Penance was revealed to be Monet and M was revealed to be Monet's sisters in Generation X, the twins switched places with Monet in the Penance body as... penance for impersonating her and letting her be trapped in the body. Then an explosion freed them from the Penance body but the body kept operating autonomously, and the autonomous Penance body became Hollow. Illyana is like, a gestalt of her soulless demon version, her Limbo-aged New Mutants version, and her dead little girl version now, right?
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Jan 17, 2023 00:28
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OnimaruXLR posted:Illyana is like, a gestalt of her soulless demon version, her Limbo-aged New Mutants version, and her dead little girl version now, right? Here's the perfect summary of Illyana now. 
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Jan 17, 2023 01:18
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This chat about Xavier not being written in ages without just being a Machiavellian rear end in a top hat in the story's core made me actually seek out those Infinity comics no one reads. It had a recent on-going where Nightmare, who got foiled by Jean Grey a while ago, came back for vengeance and got Charlie stuck on the Age of Apocalypse. That could have been a bad idea for a plot, but I actually rather liked it. He had obviously to survive there, and end up revising his thinking on Sabertooth, his own place in the world (considering he's been super isolated lately), and in the end even came up with a new dream that would make Hickman proud. Good stuff. This is Charles Xavier, not just a jerk.
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Jan 17, 2023 01:19
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I was reading a bunch of Silver Age X-Men for the first time a couple of years ago, and the characterization of Xavier as a dickhead is right there in the fundamental text. Even if you write off the basic premise of the book--older gentleman assembles small group of powered high-school kids to illegally train them as a paramilitary strike team--as just being comics, Xavier's also implicitly abusing his students' faith and trust in him to get away with some poo poo. He is, after all, the guy who faked his death for a year for no good reason, which got Changeling killed, then couldn't seem to understand why anyone would be upset with him about any of it. Fast-forward to the Giant-Sized era, and there's some genuine text about how Xavier is so monomaniacal about the idea that he's the teacher, and the leader, and that he's right, that he's made himself nearly unable to relate to the older members of his new team. He's absolutely capable of kindness and generosity, but he's also deliberately surrounded himself with people who are definitionally not his equals. The closest thing to a peer that Xavier's got up until Magneto's original face turn is arguably Moira, who has no powers (back then) and spends all her time on a different continent.
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Jan 17, 2023 01:49
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https://twitter.com/peppard_anna/status/1615074885683871780?t=vvnEHtht75Et2K12mAHw6Q&s=19 https://twitter.com/peppard_anna/status/1615079074325561360?t=-VFP_4jDW2HPAjrx9kmFFg&s=19
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Jan 17, 2023 02:26
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wish yana would have kept the horns... maybe the hooves. :3
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Jan 17, 2023 02:40
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Saoshyant posted:This chat about Xavier not being written in ages without just being a Machiavellian rear end in a top hat in the story's core made me actually seek out those Infinity comics no one reads. Yeah, it was a really good story. Plus, it was neat to get confirmation that AoA Moira also reincarnates.
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Jan 17, 2023 03:22
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Immortal X-Men status: great as always. You are never going to guess someone called Mr Sinister is now the headliner for an upcoming event, what a rascal! Dark Web X-Men #3, good ending though a wee bit hamfisted considering the previous issues. Status: Maddie recovered as a character, which had me worried since I was liking where she was heading after the New Mutants story and thought at first this crossover would ruin that. Saoshyant fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 18, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 20:31
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Today's Immortal X-Men was extremely relevant to the Xavier discussion. The narration is entirely his internal monologue, delivered like an academic lecture on the fact that he IS a jerk. He admits and accepts his biggest flaws, showing both a deep self awareness coupled with a seeming inability to ever fully correct them all. He builds himself up as both threat and martyr, and extends this contradiction out to mutants in general, thus the need to "protect the world that hates an fears them." It's a brilliant bit of writing that paints Xavier as a complicated figure trying to do good but painfully aware in all the ways he can and has come up short.
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Jan 18, 2023 20:57
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glitchwraith posted:Today's Immortal X-Men was extremely relevant to the Xavier discussion. The narration is entirely his internal monologue, delivered like an academic lecture on the fact that he IS a jerk. He admits and accepts his biggest flaws, showing both a deep self awareness coupled with a seeming inability to ever fully correct them all. He builds himself up as both threat and martyr, and extends this contradiction out to mutants in general, thus the need to "protect the world that hates an fears them." It's a brilliant bit of writing that paints Xavier as a complicated figure trying to do good but painfully aware in all the ways he can and has come up short. Yeah, I enjoyed today's issue especially in view of recent discussions in the thread. That ending has big implications!
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Jan 18, 2023 21:15
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That last page 👀👀👀
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Jan 18, 2023 21:56
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is the Immortal X-Men #10 reveal referring back to that one Sinister Secret from Powers of X (#10 reads "Which brainwashed mutant Sinister was replaced long before a certain bald somebody knew and has been in on the game for almost as long as the game was being played?"; I believe this is a typo and it's meant to say "mutant was replaced and brainwashed by Sinister" or something to that effect, since as written, it didn't make much sense.) Was wondering if that would be addressed in Sins of Sinister, or ever.
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Jan 18, 2023 22:15
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site posted:That last page 👀👀👀 Yeah, that...changes things.
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Jan 18, 2023 22:51
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Immortal: charles could only have been replaced somewhat recently, yes? Didn’t he have his helmet off in Legion of X? And then there was the time he died at the beginning of X force…
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Jan 18, 2023 23:41
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:Immortal: charles could only have been replaced somewhat recently, yes? Didn’t he have his helmet off in Legion of X? And then there was the time he died at the beginning of X force… He's resurrected in that same issue, post-Sinister attack on the council/Hope. He's in the resurrection montage at the bottom of one of the pages. I think they're saying that because they have to use Sinister's genetic database for resurrections, Sinister has co-opted the entire process and can produce Sinister clones of dead mutants when they resurrect, if he wants to. I do find it interesting how terrified he is of going back to Judgment Day, they've mentioned it repeatedly. We Got Us A Bread fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Jan 18, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 23:43
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We Got Us A Bread posted:He's resurrected in that same issue, post-Sinister attack on the council/Hope. He's in the resurrection montage at the bottom of page 10. I think they're saying that because they have to use Sinister's genetic database for resurrections, Sinister has co-opted the entire process and can produce Sinister clones of dead mutants when they resurrect, if he wants to. This is how I'm reading it. It would also explain why he wanted to kill Hope, who I assume could have prevented Sinister's plan, along with as many of the Quiet Counsel as possible. The more dead, the less threats, the more Sinisters. Also explains the preview pic of Emma stealing Sinister's look that's been floating around.
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Jan 18, 2023 23:50
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There was something liberating about hearing Xavier, of all people, go "The mutant metaphor is a bit silly because other people who suffer bigotry can't accidentally evaporate the tri-state area" Although I have to wonder if he's maybe got a lower opinion of Magneto than is warranted. Maybe I've got selective memory going on right now, but even at his most hostile he's always wanted mutant supremacy, not human extermination the way that say, AOA Apocalypse did. There's a reason House of M was basically the human/mutant dynamic flipped, and not full throated genocidal nightmare scenario.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:48
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OnimaruXLR posted:There was something liberating about hearing Xavier, of all people, go "The mutant metaphor is a bit silly because other people who suffer bigotry can't accidentally evaporate the tri-state area" Magneto would probably push the kill all humans button on a really bad day. Not most days. But humans would be extinct the day after Genosha, for example.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:55
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Yeah it's why Xavier says on his worst day Magneto would do it. He's right. Magneto has had moments where he's gone all "yo gently caress the humans" and would've killed them all with a thought even if it's not really what he would've wanted.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:23
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