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30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Just read all the lore and found out that the trans allegory was made explicit in an abandoned storyline in the matrix online several years before Lana Wachowski made her transition public, which is the most incredible poo poo I've ever learned. neo's body vanishes after the matrix 3 and everyone is trying to figure out what happened it in the game, but he woke up in the matrix as a woman

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busalover
Sep 12, 2020
Was the trans allegory in the original Matrix comic? Because I keep reading about the red pill being a reference to the color of a hormone pill, but the red pill afaik was used in pop culture before, and not in reference to particular real life medication.

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
The Wachowski sisters have been up front about that yeah

https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-53692435

busalover
Sep 12, 2020
No, I mean is the 'red pill scene' in the comic the Matrix movie is based on, and does it have the same connotation.

Meskhenet
Apr 26, 2010

I'm going to throw pre 1.7 AA (Archeage) in there as being good.

With alpha being super fun.

Combat was ok, pvp was okish. trade runs were right up my alley. Housing was very good.

It was killed by greed.

I recon if there was a decent private server id spend an hour a day just doing stuff on a few plots of land again

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006

busalover posted:

No, I mean is the 'red pill scene' in the comic the Matrix movie is based on, and does it have the same connotation.

The only matrix comic I know about is the promotional & tie in comics they did for the movies

arsenicCatnip
Dec 23, 2022

:33< i KNOW, i was speaking metafurrikitty :33



busalover posted:

No, I mean is the 'red pill scene' in the comic the Matrix movie is based on, and does it have the same connotation.

the first matrix movie isn't an adaption of anything.

busalover
Sep 12, 2020
Ah. I was told the Animatrix is based on the source material that came first.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
technically matrix is inspired in relatively big part by the ghost in the shell comics/movie so you could have confused it with that :v:

arsenicCatnip
Dec 23, 2022

:33< i KNOW, i was speaking metafurrikitty :33



yeah that's what I'm thinking. Matrix cribbed a lot aesthetically from anime and Animatrix is an anime...

CuddleCryptid
Jan 11, 2013

Things could be going better

Meskhenet posted:

I'm going to throw pre 1.7 AA (Archeage) in there as being good.

With alpha being super fun.

Combat was ok, pvp was okish. trade runs were right up my alley. Housing was very good.

It was killed by greed.

I recon if there was a decent private server id spend an hour a day just doing stuff on a few plots of land again

I'm not sure if it was good but it was certainly funny. My enjoyment of the game was almost entirely because I happened to have a sick day on the day of launch and was able to get a plot of land before they got devoured five hours after launch and all the plebs with jobs had to use the lovely public land to grow things on. gently caress you, got mine, capitalism ho!

It was ruined by greed but that's also because the western release was so restricted on how it could patch things. I'll never forget the goon that got rich because they realized they could clip through the floor and plant thousands of trees unrestricted on the *underside* of the map.

Jackard
Oct 28, 2007

We Have A Bow And We Wish To Use It

busalover posted:

No, I mean is the 'red pill scene' in the comic the Matrix movie is based on, and does it have the same connotation.
Maybe you saw the matrix storyboards?

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006

busalover posted:

Ah. I was told the Animatrix is based on the source material that came first.

The Animatrix came out after the first movie, so technically correct

Jimlit
Jun 30, 2005



30.5 Days posted:

There's a karma system that is reasonably annoying if you kill someone unprovoked, so I haven't seen hardly any ganking, maybe twice over a very long period of time, but the social mores of BDO are that the stronger person gets the spot. This doesn't USUALLY cause issues, because they've made a lot of strides in balancing grind spots so that higher-difficulty zones semi-consistently give better rewards, so it's somewhat rare to encounter way stronger people at a spot. If you can way outgrind someone (i.e. you're in a PVE-focused class and start just racing them for spawns), they might just back off and let you have it if they don't like PVP themselves or don't want to deal with the karma penalty, but a lot of times they'll fight you for the spot. People will also generally offer to duel the spot first so it's rare to just get merked. If you ignore them and try to hang onto it anyway, though, they'll kill you. Getting killed by players also doesn't have massive consequences (every spot has a nearby spawn point and death penalties are lighter than wow's at lower gear levels, without the corpse run. at higher gear levels you might break some socketed gems so it's a repair bill of 5-10min of grinding unless you decked yourself out beyond your means). Lastly, every area has multiple viable rotations for grinding and you can switch servers every half hour or so if you want to roll the dice on a rotation not being camped, so a stronger player laying claim to a spot you wanted doesn't really derail your day.

This has also improved as they've added more content to the game, since the ceiling is much further away from where the average player hangs out. There are still some spots that give low-level items unavailable elsewhere that can crank up in price under certain circumstances (centaurs is a good example) so it's not unusual to find a god-king running the most valuable rotation there, but for the most part the super high level players are off on an elvia server or something and are not interested in your 180AP grind spot.

e: Also the season servers are a pretty good way to get into the game so you should check it out if you're interested in BDO. They've got Ye Olde Battlepass that will shower a new character with easily $60-$80 worth of stuff and if you play the season out to completion (i.e. max out all your junk before moving on) you can end up with a huge headstart into the game and a direction for a long while afterward.

Karma was a joke though. People would just have their guild declare war on yours and poof no more karma or consequences.

The main issue with BDO is how most of it's fun mechanics are abandoned / aren't viable at all for meaningful character progression (IE: a lot of life skills, sailing, housing etc...). Features that get the most dev hours like world bosses, arena stuff and territory control (PVP in general) are actively terrible. I quit BDO after a year of almost addict levels of playing after my first territory war battle. It's like it was developed in a vaccum with no understanding that nobody wants to play dynasty warriors if every character is lubu and its running at 5 fps in PS1 mode.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Jimlit posted:

The main issue with BDO is how most of it's fun mechanics are abandoned / aren't viable at all for meaningful character progression (IE: a lot of life skills, sailing, housing etc...). Features that get the most dev hours like world bosses, arena stuff and territory control (PVP in general) are actively terrible. I quit BDO after a year of almost addict levels of playing after my first territory war battle. It's like it was developed in a vaccum with no understanding that nobody wants to play dynasty warriors if every character is lubu and its running at 5 fps in PS1 mode.

Is this another Wildstar situation where the devs were actively hostile to the parts of their game they accidentally got right, or not quite that bad?

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
BDO was funny because I played with friends who just wanted to play truck simulator and drive wagons all day

If we ever saw another wagon on the road, we would declare war on them, and keep driving

The other guild would often freak out about this

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
I once had someone so upset that we declared war on them, they found my house out of town, found me sleeping in my bed, and sat there for 4 hours staring at me

cyrn
Sep 11, 2001

The Man is a harsh mistress.

Bruceski posted:

Is this another Wildstar situation where the devs were actively hostile to the parts of their game they accidentally got right, or not quite that bad?

No. While it certainly had many flaws, early BDO was full of thoughtfully designed game systems. A massive interconnected set of tradeskills that was actually a progression option instead of grinding, price controlled auction house to keep the game from being infested by bots, a non-instanced world with meaningful but not annoying travel, classes with interesting group roles but no holy trinity, satisfying gear progression even for small upgrades- a lot of difficult game design problems most MMOs don't even attempt to solve. Later content releases slowly broke a lot of these systems and based on the time the game started to really go off the rails I suspect the people responsible for the original game were tapped to make BDO mobile.

Sachant
Apr 27, 2011

doomisland posted:

Cohhcarnage buying (literally) into pantheon half a year ago might mean something will come out??

Something will probably come out, but it already hardly resembles what the game was supposed to be. It's like a worse EQ2.

ChickenMedium
Sep 2, 2001
Forum Veteran And Professor Emeritus of Condiment Studies

arsenicCatnip posted:

the first matrix movie isn't an adaption of anything.

Grant Morrison would beg to differ

Rexicon1
Oct 9, 2007

A Shameful Path Led You Here

Sachant posted:

Something will probably come out, but it already hardly resembles what the game was supposed to be. It's like a worse EQ2.

I’m gonna cast sow and ask for pp

This is the litmus test for a good mmo

Jimlit
Jun 30, 2005



Third World Reagan posted:

I once had someone so upset that we declared war on them, they found my house out of town, found me sleeping in my bed, and sat there for 4 hours staring at me

he understood that some victories aren't tangible.

Sachant
Apr 27, 2011

Rexicon1 posted:

ask for pp

Try that in FFXIV and report back on your findings.

Rexicon1
Oct 9, 2007

A Shameful Path Led You Here

Sachant posted:

Try that in FFXIV and report back on your findings.

You’ve led me down a Shameful Path

Chopstix
Nov 20, 2002

The Matrix has been accused of steal from Grant Morrison’s The Invisibles, which is what you may be thinking of

https://screenrant.com/matrix-inspired-invisibles-grant-morrison-comics-wachowskis/

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.
Gloria Victis is apparently launching into 1.0 on the 7th with fresh start servers. Any opinions on it? Not usually in to PvP heavy games but FF14 isn't quite scratching the itch at the moment and I have a hankering for a low fantasy setting. $20 is also pretty painless.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
I got a lot of words about this, but I am gonna say no.

Activity when I played a few months ago was low enough so that most things were not active on the NA server. Europe and asia was a bit more active. When the timed events come about, you might find more people, or no one. Some times it was 2v2 going after a castle.

The launch includes a new player server, which is ok, sorta. You can still travel to other servers as a guest. In wars, underdog factions would routinely have people from the other servers come and help out for the wars. Some times the wars were active, some times they were a waiting game where no one showed up.

The PvE is not good, the AI is mostly bad, except for a few things that just auto parry most of your attacks.

The crafting isn't good or fun. The harvesting is sorta ok. The skill tree is kinda meh and pidgeon holes you. The equipment trees are uninspired and down right depressing when you start looking at them.

Kevin Bacon
Sep 22, 2010

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2294660/Quinfall/

i can feel it, this is the one

in this one you can explore the impact of the monstrous god Pelyonas, the dragonborn gods Greis and Kreas, and many more gods on the universe, which i've never seen done or even attempted before



hundreds of different bone and muscle controls on the face will let you create unique characters such as this one

Cardboard Fox
Feb 8, 2009

[Tentatively Excited]
No, thanks. I'll just wait for ChatGPT to make the next generation MMO.

kedo
Nov 27, 2007

Kevin Bacon posted:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2294660/Quinfall/

i can feel it, this is the one

in this one you can explore the impact of the monstrous god Pelyonas, the dragonborn gods Greis and Kreas, and many more gods on the universe, which i've never seen done or even attempted before



hundreds of different bone and muscle controls on the face will let you create unique characters such as this one

And here I thought the Dune MMO wasn't coming out until 2024!

LuckyCat
Jul 26, 2007

Grimey Drawer
I think often about, if a decent enough mmo came out (for me, PVE) and there was a large enough community behind it that would be a win. I’m not asking for much! I know FFXIV and ESO exist but I’ve played FFXIV to death by now and ESO’s combat is just not fun.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

“We don’t really know where this goes — and I’m not sure we really care.”
My problem with modern MMO's PvE is they are way too easy. I enjoy a lot of ESO has to offer when it comes to PvE quests and exploration, but I could literally click one button and that's more than enough to do all the solo content.

And MMO PvP is just objectively bad, developers should stop wasting time and resources on it. Even the disaster of the BF2042 launch offers better pvp than any MMO does.

Online survival games have mostly replaced MMOs for me, but they're also plagued by having resources wasted on lovely pvp.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
So I want to rant about this.. tree... in gloria victis.



This is the white, T1 weapons. You use them and gain access to green T2 weapons.
As you use T2 weapons, you unlock the following.
2% damage
durability loss -10%
stamina loss -10%
3% damage and a title

Now, to get to T3 weapons, use T2 weapons. At this point there are now 3 lines. One for one handed weapons, one for two handed weapons, and one for ranged weapons. The rewards for each line are
2% damage
durability loss -10%
stamina loss -10%
3% damage and a title

Repeat with T4 except enemies need to be level 20+. You probably be on level 50+ enemies by then.

Now lets look at T5.

Here you can see, the same poo poo. The same bonuses. Except each weapon type is split up. If you max any line you get a title but it is the same if it is a one handed axe or a one handed sword, ect.
And again
2% damage
durability loss -10%
stamina loss -10%
3% damage and a title

So lets talk about armor.

The same poo poo.

mining? forestry? smelting? fishing? Same thing



But here are two funny ones.
archeology which lets you afk dig dirt to keep numbers up and maybe get a treasure map but mostly junk or fishing bait



diassembling

I just can't even begin with this one.

Now part of this is just being uninspired in the things the trees add and weird gate keeping of T1 -> T2 ect

The other part is who ever made these hates curved lines and probably also made their 'what to do' image


also if you read through the image, such wonderful things are on it such as 'screenshots'

Third World Reagan fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jan 31, 2023

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Next rant, crafting and crafting food.

This part I sorta like. You see the game has a hunger mechanic.



You have to worry about food quality and that is determined by the average of what you eat. Some food is easy to digest. Others are hard to digest and will give you gout.

Sadly gout only removes 3 quality from your food score here.

So lets look at a random dish.



Things to note. If you are not using a hearth or herbalist workshop+2, you are gonna be inefficient. This does matter if you value your time.

Honey has to be gained from behives found static in the world. Certain castles have them.
Anything with an arrow on it means you could use a substitute, cool and good.
Substitutes may be in different values, mostly noticed in wood billets vs say charcoal.
Lentils and herbs have to be grown.

There is a limited amount of farm fields, and the farther away from safe areas, the better it is. Other people can either help you farm or rip them up. You have a limited number of farms you can put down. For the most part, you can't go around griefing people's farms outside of say the center of the map.

When you farm, you must water it, fertilize it to speed up time, and remove the weeds. The weeds are optional, but give you fishing grubs and what not. But some crops take hours, some take 15 minutes. And so you have to start timing this poo poo. Also you are getting hungry the entire time.

So something else cool and horrible is that food only stays good or warm for so long.



but you can reheat it



unless it out right spoils

Some higher tier food lasts for 14 days like travelers cheese. But oh man is getting milk a pain in the rear end.

You have to find goats or cows in the world to milk, or buy some at a barn where how much they give is based on how happy they are but they also have a limited number of times you can harvest them before they die.

The other crafts are some what similar. You may need leather to turn into leather strips so that an armorer can make armor from it. But the metal requires a bloomery which is a structure you place down and leave running for a few hours and come back to. Brewing is the same, so are a few others.

It is a neat system but the time requirements are massive.

EDIT: as I was posting, this was said in chat

LuckyCat
Jul 26, 2007

Grimey Drawer
It looks like they took the best parts of Albion and made them bad

E: also I just personally hate food mechanics that are mandatory. It’s fine if it’s like EverQuest 1 where you just go to a merchant and spend a small amount of money for 100 stacks that last you weeks, but having to be concerned with quality, cooking, and ingredients is just not my jam unless it’s an optional tradeskill for food buffs or something.

LuckyCat fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 31, 2023

cmdrk
Jun 10, 2013

LuckyCat posted:

E: also I just personally hate food mechanics that are mandatory. It’s fine if it’s like EverQuest 1 where you just go to a merchant and spend a small amount of money for 100 stacks that last you weeks, but having to be concerned with quality, cooking, and ingredients is just not my jam unless it’s an optional tradeskill for food buffs or something.

Yes, big agree. EQ's food/drink were annoyances at worst. I don't know if this was the intentional design, but it certainly made you go back to the town or general player hub areas occasionally and pay a plat tax to restock. Games that make you starve to death are terrible. Take the life simulation to the logical conclusion and you get enthralling Star Citizen peepee poopoo mechanics :trustme:

While not an MMO, I think Valheim has one of the better food mechanics out there. There's no dumb starvation penalties and if you don't want to upkeep food/drink while doing chill stuff like working on your base, you don't have to. If you run out you do lose significant HP/Stamina, but you can still find forageable food around.

cmdrk fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jan 31, 2023

an iksar marauder
May 6, 2022

An iksar marauder glowers at you dubiously -- looks like quite a gamble.
lol your food can get cold? gently caress off

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
In gloria victis, if you want to stay at like 5 food, it is easy and fast. But I think the bar for good stamina regen is like 7 which takes a bit more work. And this is mostly important in long fights with heavier armor.

"Each stack of the buff gives 0.5% health and 2.5% stamina, and it can stack up to 10 times." from wiki

Third World Reagan fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jan 31, 2023

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.
Perishable items will decay into fertilizer. Your inventory is pretty big with bag expansions, and there is no sort. So you manually have to drag around the fertilizer into one stack.

you need like 50 fertilizer total for farming for a week

here is my inventory

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mirarant
Dec 18, 2012

Post or die
So it's all poo poo in the end.

e: actually just make that the title.

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