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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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Slavvy posted:You didn't really read what I said before mashing post but that's ok, I'll explain it again: I just contest the fact that the Abrams is no less reliable than diesel engine (or at least older American ones). quote:On the contrary, Army actual use figures show that the turbine-powered M1 requires unscheduled maintenance over five times as often as the diesel M60 tank.2 Furthermore, the M1 and M1A1 tanks cost three to four times as much to maintain as does the diesel-engined M60.3 (See Chart C) This is from the 90s, and perhaps the Abrams is better at this point (it hasn't sounded like it from stories from Iraq, they are still using Honeywell AGT1500s ) but there is clearly an issue with specifically the turbine. I don't disagree with everything else you said, but yeah the Abrams has a reputation for a reason. (Also, the Soviets had issues with the turbine in the T-80 as well, they are just more temperamental power plants.) Also, it seems like the reliability of the Honeywell turbine really suffers if you put it in stressful situtations (like a battlefield) and can't keep it fed with aviation fuel. Supposedly, the Australians have been having a lot of trouble recently. https://www.pogo.org/report/1990/01/armys-m1-tank-has-it-lived-up-to-expectations#heading-5 quote:The combat merits of them is also irrelevant, they are a tank with decent IR and a good gun, which is better than no tank or any kind of light armoured vehicle. The difference between any two western MBT's is irrelevant compared to the difference between any western mbt and any not-tank like a Bradley or bmp or marder or Hilux or guy with an nlaw and an indomitable will of iron The Ukrainians are taking what they can get, but the Abrams isn't the first choice... or the second one either. I do think the turbine issues (also fuel usage) is liability, but it still probably better than a Hilux or a M113 or whatever. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 08:02 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 07:44
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The m60 had a totally conventional mechanically driven diesel, comparing that to the engine in a Leo 2 or Challenger is like comparing a 350 Chevy to an F1 car lol. Idk how to better impart the idea that modern common rail diesels with eye watering horsepower are not reliable or comparable to anything from decades ago or even Russia today. I don't think the difference is a meaningful factor, they will all break down pretty often and the results are identical - tank out of action with slim possibility of repair. Fwiw I think Germany doesn't want to send Leo 2 because they don't want to be the first ones to jump another step on the escalation ladder and want big daddy America to do it first. Everyone knows the British tanks are a useless posturing gesture like everything else the UK does.
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Jan 19, 2023 08:00
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Slavvy posted:The m60 had a totally conventional mechanically driven diesel, comparing that to the engine in a Leo 2 or Challenger is like comparing a 350 Chevy to an F1 car lol. Idk how to better impart the idea that modern common rail diesels with eye watering horsepower are not reliable or comparable to anything from decades ago or even Russia today. I don't think the difference is a meaningful factor, they will all break down pretty often and the results are identical - tank out of action with slim possibility of repair. Well, the question then also becomes sending a m60A3 as well, they still exist. But even so the Australians have really been complaining about their Abrams tanks going down as soon as they start really pushing them. It isn't that the Leopard 2 or the Challenger are more temperamental than older diesel engines but question is they are temperamental versus a turbine under stress. That is where I am skeptical. quote:Army Head of Modernisation and Strategic Planning Major General Gus McLachlan recently hosted personnel from the US Army’s Tank and Automotive Command (TACOM) in Michigan to investigate what he describes as ‘very significant and reliability issues’ with the Abrams fleet in Australia. It sounds like the Australians committed the grave sin of actually trying to use the tank. quote:Fwiw I think Germany doesn't want to send Leo 2 because they don't want to be the first ones to jump another step on the escalation ladder and want big daddy America to do it first. Everyone knows the British tanks are a useless posturing gesture like everything else the UK does. Yeah probably, Germany specifically is also probably dragging their feet because they only have so many Leopard 2s and they don't want to have to shop around before the Panther is ready (who knows when). Ardennes has issued a correction as of 08:11 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 08:07
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Would Ukraine be better served by procuring the ms-09 dom or the rgm-79 gm?
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Jan 19, 2023 08:12
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Ukraine would be best served by procuring a big bunch of catapults and hunchbacks but because of their political bias they'll spend everything on a couple of maddogs and timberwolves instead which will be defeated in detail as they overheat
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Jan 19, 2023 08:16
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They should just save up for an Atlas just because of you know what it implies...
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Jan 19, 2023 08:21
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Stairmaster posted:Would Ukraine be better served by procuring the ms-09 dom or the rgm-79 gm? they would be better off procuring Tewi Fumos.
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Jan 19, 2023 08:24
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Slavvy posted:Ukraine would be best served by procuring a big bunch of catapults and hunchbacks but because of their political bias they'll spend everything on a couple of maddogs and timberwolves instead which will be defeated in detail as they overheat Knight rush transitioning to Cav Archers can counter siege, and I don't think the Ukraine civ has a bonus to pikemen like the Byzantines do
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Jan 19, 2023 08:25
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Ardennes posted:Not one was ever destroyed, but with victory at hand they all peacefully retired upstate. https://twitter.com/rusembusa/status/1615940520685047810
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Jan 19, 2023 08:29
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Let’s Go https://twitter.com/medvedevrussiae/status/1615974846206197760 screenshot mawarannahr has issued a correction as of 08:34 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 08:31
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gradenko_2000 posted:Knight rush transitioning to Cav Archers can counter siege, and I don't think the Ukraine civ has a bonus to pikemen like the Byzantines do ukraine should build berserks and longships because they are clearly the vikings.
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Jan 19, 2023 08:32
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mawarannahr posted:Let’s Go To achieve world peace we must kill all our enemies and wipe their bloodlines from the face of the planet. I'll take my nobel peace prize with a latte to go thanks.
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Jan 19, 2023 08:40
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mawarannahr posted:Let’s Go The amount of times the US has lost a conventional war kind of proves that this guy's a wiener.
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Jan 19, 2023 08:40
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evilmiera posted:The amount of times the US has lost a conventional war kind of proves that this guy's a wiener. 
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Jan 19, 2023 08:43
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Meanwhile https://twitter.com/afp/status/1615973334940012544
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Jan 19, 2023 08:46
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zelenskyy is such a petty little bitch. keep whining dickhead
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Jan 19, 2023 08:53
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tell him off
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Jan 19, 2023 08:56
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https://twitter.com/rybar_en/status/1615866694374768647 the newest weapon of russian propaganda: cgi videos https://twitter.com/tom_username_/status/1615713036450385922 sometimes you just dwarf fortress yourself into a barbed wire and dragon teeth line Danann has issued a correction as of 09:02 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 08:56
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let him know what's up
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Jan 19, 2023 08:56
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evilmiera posted:The amount of times the US has lost a conventional war kind of proves that this guy's a wiener. The US considered using nuclear weapons in Korea. They considered using nuclear weapons in Vietnam. They considered using nuclear weapons over the Kinmen and Matsu islands! How does is that a rebuttal?
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Jan 19, 2023 08:59
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You may not like it, but Michael Tracey is right as far as the meaningless of the distinction of tanks vs. other vehicles, for this conflict specifically It doesn't matter if the vehicle in question is a tank or not, if you send it Zelensky will still be begging for more poo poo. "Wow thanks for all these self propelled artillery and armored fighting vehicles... need some tanks too though... seems like you've got a lot of those" How bout don't count MY military you loving homunculus 
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Jan 19, 2023 09:04
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Yeah, that isn't overdramatic in the slighest.
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Jan 19, 2023 09:04
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/over-9000-civilians-killed-ukraine-since-russia-invaded-kyiv-2023-01-17/quote:Over 9,000 civilians killed in Ukraine since Russia invaded - Kyiv somehow less than the us invasion of iraq in 2003 especially given all the western atrocity propaganda proclamations
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Jan 19, 2023 09:14
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DancingShade posted:To achieve world peace we must kill all our enemies and wipe their bloodlines from the face of the planet. this is the official NATO line btw https://twitter.com/natopress/status/1615778380669927448
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Jan 19, 2023 09:14
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https://twitter.com/dankgdl/status/1615864468814299137
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Jan 19, 2023 09:27
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Ardennes posted:Well, the question then also becomes sending a m60A3 as well, they still exist. But even so the Australians have really been complaining about their Abrams tanks going down as soon as they start really pushing them. It isn't that the Leopard 2 or the Challenger are more temperamental than older diesel engines but question is they are temperamental versus a turbine under stress. That is where I am skeptical. lmao, if only we could have known that Australia has difficult terrain before buying all these tanks
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Jan 19, 2023 09:41
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the man of the hour 
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Jan 19, 2023 09:41
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fizzy posted:What happened to all the talk about HIMARs in the media? This was a bit up-thread but supposedly the HIMARs were used quite extensively in the fall offensives where the Ukrainians had actually achieved a temporary and local superiority in firepower over the Russian defenders - more so in Kharkiv region but I've heard it argued that the same was true for a brief period of time in Kherson. I guess all those news stories we heard during the summer about the Russians massively outgunning the Ukrainians all the way along the line were partially due to the Ukrainians saving up their stockpiles for this big fall push. What seems to be the case however is that the HIMARs rockets (amongst other strategic resources such as what was left of Ukraine's tanks, armored vehicles and soviet era artillery) were not used in the most effective way during these offensives and now it's pretty questionable whether Ukraine has the rockets to fire from the systems that haven't been searched out and destroyed by the Russians.. at least they may not have the rockets to fire if they are yet again trying to save up for another offensive.
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Jan 19, 2023 09:41
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Starsfan posted:This was a bit up-thread but supposedly the HIMARs were used quite extensively in the fall offensives where the Ukrainians had actually achieved a temporary and local superiority in firepower over the Russian defenders - more so in Kharkiv region but I've heard it argued that the same was true for a brief period of time in Kherson. I guess all those news stories we heard during the summer about the Russians massively outgunning the Ukrainians all the way along the line were partially due to the Ukrainians saving up their stockpiles for this big fall push. To be honest, I don't think they have fire surperiority in Kherson persay, they were hitting the bridges pretty often but at the same time on the frontline they really didn't seem to make much of their own progress on the ground. If anything, it seems like the HIMARS sort of didn't much of a difference either way, and both sides admit the battle ended when they threatened to hit the dam (probably with artillery). They probably had fire superiority in Kharkov because there just wasn't much there beyond separatist infantry and police. Supposedly, there has been more shipments of rockets though, I guess the question is how many launchers are active and how many missions they can conduct. One thing it did clearly cause though was the Russians to spread out their ammo dumps which complicated logistics, and the Ukrainians occasionally can get a good hit in here and there.
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Jan 19, 2023 09:56
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ModernMajorGeneral posted:lmao, if only we could have known that Australia has difficult terrain before buying all these tanks Look they would have worked great if Australia only used them on levelled flat hard standing terrain suitable for truck parking, ideally with a refuelling station within a kilometre.
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Jan 19, 2023 09:57
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Starsfan posted:This was a bit up-thread but supposedly the HIMARs were used quite extensively in the fall offensives where the Ukrainians had actually achieved a temporary and local superiority in firepower over the Russian defenders - more so in Kharkiv region but I've heard it argued that the same was true for a brief period of time in Kherson. I guess all those news stories we heard during the summer about the Russians massively outgunning the Ukrainians all the way along the line were partially due to the Ukrainians saving up their stockpiles for this big fall push. If only amazon shipping wasn't clogged with christmas orders or else those gift wrapped pallets of ammo would have arrived already. Shame.
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Jan 19, 2023 10:00
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DancingShade posted:If only amazon shipping wasn't clogged with christmas orders or else those gift wrapped pallets of ammo would have arrived already. Shame. this reminds me of Wehrmacht soldiers getting their Christmas presents in March of 1942 because it took that long for the trains to resolve the backlog
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Jan 19, 2023 10:02
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France had been underperforming in sneaky underhanded deals so far, but imo offloading a bunch of unusually lethal helicopters at just-off-the-lot prices is like hitting a grand slam. Brings them about par with Poland.
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Jan 19, 2023 10:07
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Danann posted:https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/over-9000-civilians-killed-ukraine-since-russia-invaded-kyiv-2023-01-17/ look at the primitive orc who can't even do a simple genocide, superior western technology would have murdered at least ten times that number by now
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Jan 19, 2023 10:09
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:France had been underperforming in sneaky underhanded deals so far, but imo offloading a bunch of unusually lethal helicopters at just-off-the-lot prices is like hitting a grand slam. Brings them about par with Poland. Makes you wonder what else is everyone offloading onto Ukraine just to get them off the books and out of the stockpiles
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Jan 19, 2023 10:10
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and now that i wrote that i realized that some shitlib is going to make that exact argument unironically, aren't they?
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Jan 19, 2023 10:10
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Slavvy posted:Imo the turbine thing is largely immaterial because all NATO tanks are designed with a power pack layout that makes any in-vehicle engine repairs impossible and assumes you have a huge logistical train with a bunch of spare packs ready to go + the means to ship bad ones to the rear for refurbishing. If you think a bespoke, high performance modern common rail diesel engine is in any way simple or reliable I've got news for you. Broken turbine or broken ICE is irrelevant, if you can't swap the whole thing out you just have a 120mm rheinmetall smoothbore paperweight. The Leopard 2 engine comes in a mechanically driven fuel pump model too, it's still pretty high performance but servicing it or the common rail version is still a lot easier than a gas turbine, which wants a clean room and I guess specialist aviation equipment to say balance the turbine. It's possible for Ukraine to be given spare engines and spare parts and set up their own repair facilities and they've got a heck of a lot more people that can do that sort of work on a piston engine. evilmiera posted:The amount of times the US has lost a conventional war kind of proves that this guy's a wiener. "crucial for their destiny" probably doesn't include propping up quislings in Asia.
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Jan 19, 2023 10:10
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YOU ARE GIVING YOUR ARYAN BROTHERS BUM HELICOPTERS LIKE THEY ARE SOME SORT OF AFRICANS?
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Jan 19, 2023 10:10
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gradenko_2000 posted:Makes you wonder what else is everyone offloading onto Ukraine just to get them off the books and out of the stockpiles Has anyone run a geiger counter over any of the donated armor? Just idle curiosity.
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Jan 19, 2023 10:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:Makes you wonder what else is everyone offloading onto Ukraine just to get them off the books and out of the stockpiles MRAPs have featured a lot, and those things are worse than Vietnam-era M113s in every respect that matters. poo poo's not even worth the cost of storage.
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Jan 19, 2023 10:23
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