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It's absolutely wild how common a belief it is that things can just never run out and can keep growing exponentially forever. I remember when I was waiting tables getting into it with one of my regulars who did one of the two most common things when cornered, which was to say that God would simply refill all the oil reservoirs for us if we ran out. The other one, of course, is the more honest "I'll be dead by then so I don't care" which really breaks peoples brains when it starts happening way ahead of schedule. I guess you sort of have to believe that or go insane if you're an end of history type. God or technology, both as likely as the other to come to the rescue.
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Jan 19, 2023 00:34
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Dpulex posted:They do create art, it's just universally poo poo. His approach seems to be that all conservatives need to do is to make their own version of leftist art. Take what made leftist art well received and do that with conservative themes. The responses seem split on the ultimate culprits; some are blaming cancel culture and believe that plenty of skilled conservative artists exist, they just have to keep their mouth shut else be canceled by the woke mob. Others actually blame older Republicans/boomers for discouraging people from pursuing art careers and think it's a self fulfilling prophecy that they inevitably cede that part of the discourse to the woke mob. George is one of the few chud artists to actually bring up the problem to other chuds, at least that I've seen.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:29
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Panfilo posted:Interesting replies in here about conservatives and art. Oh they try. God is Not Dead, Saving Christmas, whatever it is Dinesh D'Souza does, Tim Allen had a TV show...It just all almost objectively sucks and even conservatives don't want to watch any of it. Conservatives are particularly bad at comedy. ANd not because they cross the line and try to be edgy, but because they;re not funny when they do it and think that rattling cages and being anti politically correct IS the joke. I've posted before about a guy whose name i think is Mark Kaye who does "zany" bits involving trivia and a bit of audio with call in contestants and jesus christ is it terrible.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:33
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Epic High Five posted:It's absolutely wild how common a belief it is that things can just never run out and can keep growing exponentially forever. I remember when I was waiting tables getting into it with one of my regulars who did one of the two most common things when cornered, which was to say that God would simply refill all the oil reservoirs for us if we ran out. The other one, of course, is the more honest "I'll be dead by then so I don't care" which really breaks peoples brains when it starts happening way ahead of schedule. BiggerBoat posted:Oh they try. God is Not Dead, Saving Christmas, whatever it is Dinesh D'Souza does, Tim Allen had a TV show...It just all almost objectively sucks and even conservatives don't want to watch any of it.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:40
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most good comedy involves saying uncomfortable truths and punching upward punching downward is just being a bully and bullies suck, people only laugh along with bullies because they are scared of being the next victim of the bully
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Jan 19, 2023 01:44
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Because art at it's very base is about emotion and that takes empathy.Jaxyon posted:most good comedy involves saying uncomfortable truths and punching upward We can still laugh at chuds though, right?
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Jan 19, 2023 01:44
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Panfilo posted:Why do they miss the mark so much? My guess is that they don't understand subtext and thus don't understand what makes things funny/good. I think one of the most popular explanations is there's a very low limit on how funny you can be when you're punching down versus up (at at yourself), but they're ideologically incapable of doing anything else. It's lovely and mean spirited and aimed to please people who are lovely and mean spirited, and it's created its own incestuous economy because every attempt to venture out fizzles at best. God's Not Dead 3: God Dies starring world famous actor dril gets made for pennies and released in a very select and narrowly advertised way and local churches buy the theaters out for every showing. It's all profoundly astroturfed in the same way chud books are mysteriously some of the best selling around despite being aimed at a cohort that proudly defines itself as being intellectually incurious. Grift and graft top to bottom, and it instantly dries up once the patronage networks move on to another wunderkind or washed up actor who did something silly like say maybe an ethnostate isn't very liberty freedom when you think about it. Conservatives can create good stuff at times, they just can't create good conservative stuff because conservatives don't want that and what they want almost nobody else does. Leslie Nielson did some chud stinkers but also is one of the greatest comedic actors of our time. His highly instructive video on how to best cheat at golf is a generational bridge on par with emojis in all chat boxes becoming standard.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:50
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Burning_Monk posted:We can still laugh at chuds though, right? Yes you can still laugh at belligerent assholes who are fighting to make the world worse for everyone around them.
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Jan 19, 2023 01:54
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Epic High Five posted:Conservatives can create good stuff at times, they just can't create good conservative stuff. . . Leslie Nielson did some chud stinkers but also is one of the greatest comedic actors of our time. But yes, that same film has Jon Voight, James Woods, Kelsey Grammer, Dennis Hopper, and Robert Davi, all Republicans, all generally considered entertaining actors, yet the attempt at conservative comedy fell flat on its rear end regardless. Enver Zogha fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 02:07
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Enver Zogha posted:To be fair, I recall David Zucker being interviewed around the time An American Carol (his really lovely conservative "comedy") came out, and he said Nielsen agreed to be in it despite not being a conservative. This is extremely good news. And yeah if that wasnt going to transcend the fundamental issues, nothing will. Conservatives can be funny, but conservatism, only if you're there for what it is actually selling
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Jan 19, 2023 02:32
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Epic High Five posted:I guess you sort of have to believe that or go insane if you're an end of history type. God or technology, both as likely as the other to come to the rescue. It still boggles my mind that people really though that we had reached the end of history.
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Jan 19, 2023 02:40
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Capitalism beat communism, end of story, nothing else could possibly matter.
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Jan 19, 2023 03:16
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Most art isn't "leftist" at all and when it is it's usually just as terrible as any "conservative" art because its primary motivation is to be political in the first place. Just make something honest and your politics will be there even if you're not conscious of it.
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Jan 19, 2023 03:16
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I've used the "tragedy of the commons" fishing game in class. The right way to do it is to have them run through once where almost everyone tries to max immediate profits and everything collapses after a few turns. Then, have them discuss amongst themselves what happened and how they could get long-term profits that are essentially ongoing. When they figure out that controlling the resource and not going for immediate max profits, they can go forever making money. Sadly, this plays out in real life in my area with the oystermen. The number of oysters has dropped by 99% in the last century (partly from diseases, but mostly from overharvesting), and the oystermen still object to limits on their takes. "You're just trying to kill our way of life!" "We know where the oysters are, why not let us get them?" "The beds have to be worked or they die out" The last one is the worst, because how did the poor oysters manage to survive for millions of years without plucky men in boats to scrape them up regularly?
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Jan 19, 2023 03:38
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The latest Tim Allen Christmas movie on Disney + is just wall to wall conservative "comedy". Are you tired of pronoun jokes? Too loving bad!
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Jan 19, 2023 04:36
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MrUnderbridge posted:Sadly, this plays out in real life in my area with the oystermen. I play Dwarf Fortress and you cannot take this away from me.
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Jan 19, 2023 05:40
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MrUnderbridge posted:Sadly, this plays out in real life in my area with the oystermen. The number of oysters has dropped by 99% in the last century (partly from diseases, but mostly from overharvesting), and the oystermen still object to limits on their takes. "You're just trying to kill our way of life!" "We know where the oysters are, why not let us get them?" "The beds have to be worked or they die out" The last one is the worst, because how did the poor oysters manage to survive for millions of years without plucky men in boats to scrape them up regularly? At what point does a group of oystermen become an Oyster Cult?
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Jan 19, 2023 05:41
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MrUnderbridge posted:I've used the "tragedy of the commons" fishing game in class. The right way to do it is to have them run through once where almost everyone tries to max immediate profits and everything collapses after a few turns. One issue you likely encounter is that the people who do this type of job for a living act like their knowledge in the field trumps that of environmentalists. It often comes down to the fact that the men doing the hard dirty work act wiser than the scientists trying to tell those men how to do their jobs. After all, what would some limp wristed college boy really know? He's not the one toiling away sixteen hours a day in the bering sea or whatever. There's a whole series of 'gotcha' videos where some rancher will bust out truth bombs in response to something some 17 year old vegan believes about animal welfare for example.
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Jan 19, 2023 06:09
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Dirk the Average posted:At what point does a group of oystermen become an Oyster Cult? When the city's on flame 
Hollandia fucked around with this message at 06:18 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 06:14
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When I think of "good" conservative directors, I think of John Ford, John Milius, and Clint Eastwood. They were, are in the case of Eastwood, all successful directors with terrible politics, who made movies that did well financially and critically, and weren't within the vein of evangelical propaganda films that are essentially sermons. They often have conservative messages too but they're at least subtle and usually not someone telling you how you're supposed to feel in a monologue. Eastwood less so as time goes on but he's also 92 and somehow still working. Hollywood was also very conservative in the 50's and 60's, until the end of the blacklist, because they were perfectly fine with loving over writers like Dalton Trumbo, one of the best screenwriters of the era, on politics alone. EDIT: This is also not dipping into the pre-WWII directors like D. W. Griffith and Cecil B. DeMille. RocknRollaAyatollah fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 06:30
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Panfilo posted:One issue you likely encounter is that the people who do this type of job for a living act like their knowledge in the field trumps that of environmentalists. It's a common occurrence when you have interactions between those who have made a dedicated effort to analyze a situation vs. people who have made a dedicated effort in taking part in a situation, which overlaps with the disdain towards higher learning. Those with 4 kids saying they know more than child psychologists, resource extractors saying they know more than the specific flavor of scientific analyst, cat breeders saying they know more than a veterinarian, that sort of thing. They have a myopic viewpoint of their situation because working within something means it's harder to see the wider picture while being insecure about what their knowledge and skills translate to within the overall situation and picking up bits and pieces as they go along which makes them (seem?) more knowledgeable than the average person outside the situation, but not more than those directly tasked to analyze it, so they hold on to their elevated status.
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Jan 19, 2023 06:55
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https://twitter.com/MeghanEMurphy/status/1615467889548759040?t=WpUBHaBXaL0df-FQsuiQlg&s=19 She's a free speech absolutist... Who thinks we should criminalize porn 
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Jan 19, 2023 07:11
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HelloSailorSign posted:It's a common occurrence when you have interactions between those who have made a dedicated effort to analyze a situation vs. people who have made a dedicated effort in taking part in a situation, which overlaps with the disdain towards higher learning. It's partly, I think, an extension of the Puritan Work Ethic. A job physically demanding gets interpreted as somehow being more worthy of respect. So to think those jobs are bad or harmful gets interpreted as coming from people who are too weak or lazy to do it themselves.
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Jan 19, 2023 07:35
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Arguably, Frasier is conservative comedy - Frasier himself is an effete ivory tower liberal snob who often needs to be brought back down to earth by his no-nonsense retired cop dad It's just that it's also a lot more than that Panfilo posted:Yeah it's this, but in the case of stereotypically masculine jobs (roughneck, miner, rancher, crabber, farmer, etc) there's a particular degree of fragility and defensiveness. These careers have some arbitrary degree of what I can only describe as "cultural authenticity". Criticism of the industries tied to these careers gets seen as a direct attack at the hardworking men that work there. I wonder how much of this is absorption of RW propaganda about REAL men not wanting things like "unions" and "sick pay" and "both arms"
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Jan 19, 2023 12:06
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Panfilo posted:
To me it's as simple as being gay/liberal/trans/vegetarian/democrat/ugly is the entire joke in and of itself but there's never any depth to it to demonstrate what's funny about it. And stuff like this can be done. Portlandia and King of the Hill, The Simpsons, SNL immediately come to mind as being able to cleverly skewer leftist stereotypes without punching down. Many stand up comics manage it too. Probably not a coincidence but, anecdotally, most conservatives sense of humor I notice seems to center around slapstick. Man Gets Hit With Football and Ow My Balls. Or memes. I don't think it's as basic as "not punching down" as much as it is cleverly subverting expectations to showcase the absurd or invoke a surprise. Conservative comedy offers none of that. Dirk the Average posted:At what point does a group of oystermen become an Oyster Cult? Whenever they're feeling blue? BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 13:01
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Panfilo posted:https://twitter.com/MeghanEMurphy/status/1615467889548759040?t=WpUBHaBXaL0df-FQsuiQlg&s=19 The person she’s responding to is a somewhat notorious online right-wing freak as well. And she’s an escapee from the Family International, so to be fair to her, the culture she’s describing is a hosed-up cult that rapes kids.
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Jan 19, 2023 14:13
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Is it me or is the American Far Right in the middle of a drive to co-opt the term misinformation and turn it into another "free speech" type thing. Seem to be seeing the usual suspects try to work that into their grievance mongering more and more that it's the Biden Administration or Fauci or any organization with a progressive angle doing the misinformation in order to continue the far rights trolling and culture war antics into the next phase. Probably something to do with the agenda of the current U.S House I imagine and getting everything in lock step and preparing it's narrative for at least the next couple years. Still ultimately comes across to me as just plain old loving whining though no matter how much spin they try to put on it. Probably just because of the sheer lack of credibility the people pushing this stuff have had over the years.
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Jan 19, 2023 14:29
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Narcissus1916 posted:The latest Tim Allen Christmas movie on Disney + is just wall to wall conservative "comedy". Are you tired of pronoun jokes? Too loving bad! It's actually a Santa Clause limited series. My theory is that it only exists because Disney wanted to bribe Tim Allen so he would stop bitching about how he wasn't voicing Buzz in that Lightyear movie.
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Jan 19, 2023 14:32
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BiggerBoat posted:Oh they try. God is Not Dead, Saving Christmas, whatever it is Dinesh D'Souza does, Tim Allen had a TV show...It just all almost objectively sucks and even conservatives don't want to watch any of it. They're attempts at comedy tend to begin and end at lame trolling, harassing "liberals", lying about stuff, and just kind of being assholes thinking that's the joke yeah. It's hard to find much time to be funny in-between whining, complaining about "the other" doing a thing they probably aren't even doing and casting yourself as a victim of injustice all the time though. My loving god do conservatives loving whine a lot, it really is their defining trait in the post-Trump era.
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Jan 19, 2023 14:35
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If you have time for it there's a decent Some More News video on right-wing comedy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSXKzPOcYDU
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Jan 19, 2023 14:41
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bartok posted:It's actually a Santa Clause limited series. My theory is that it only exists because Disney wanted to bribe Tim Allen so he would stop bitching about how he wasn't voicing Buzz in that Lightyear movie. It exists because The Santa Clause is a popular franchise. The reason Allen did it despite his issues with Disney is because they let him cast his daughter in it
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Jan 19, 2023 15:22
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https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1615937367432466435?s=46&t=aGiLfCT3CXRxvTQz1i2S2A
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Jan 19, 2023 16:15
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Kale posted:Is it me or is the American Far Right in the middle of a drive to co-opt the term misinformation and turn it into another "free speech" type thing. Seem to be seeing the usual suspects try to work that into their grievance mongering more and more that it's the Biden Administration or Fauci or any organization with a progressive angle doing the misinformation in order to continue the far rights trolling and culture war antics into the next phase. If I am reading you right, to me it's along the lines of calling everything that they don't report "fake news" or any criminal investigation of a Republican a "witch hunt" steeped in bias unless the investigators, judge and/or jury are all christians, GOP appointed and voted for Trump (in no particular order). It's the thing Karl Rove mastered where you constantly accuse your opponents of doing exactly what it is you are doing until the narrative takes hold through sheer repetition, association and attrition. Coupled with a poo poo ton of whataboutism and crying about fairness unless everyone involved in a criminal investigation is a lifelong Republican. UNtil, of course, it's Mueller or a Bush/Trump judge, in which case they're RINO's now and woe is me because we can't get a fair shake and there'a a horrible double standard. Support law enforcement up until the FBI investigates Trump or Capitol Police defend lawmakers from a violent mob that wants to hang someone from the gallows. A recent example is how much I'm hearing about just how INSANE Biden's classified documents are and how the DoJ is handling it, FBI bias and RWM suddenly wanting the US to intervene in Russia and stop Putin. Also, how no RWM outlet I subject myself to ever mentions Santos at all but still squeezes in some AOC or Pelosi poo poo. Whatever Santos did doesn't matter because Biden plagiarized some speeches and Bill Clinton lied about his affair. Hell, they were going off on John Kerry yesterday so "support the troops" unless he's a Democrat then it's OK to mock them with Purple Heart band aids or boo them on stage if they are openly gay. Jan 6th doesn't matter because BLM/Antifa burned down some stores and broke some windows. Whatever cops do doesn't matter because "_____________" killed a cop/cops. Then bitch and complain about a double standard while refusing to acknowledge systemic racism. It's incredibly frustrating because so much of it is in bad faith.
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Jan 19, 2023 16:22
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Best phrase I've heard about this is that to a fascist, hypocrisy is a privilege not a problem.
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Jan 19, 2023 16:29
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Kale posted:They're attempts at comedy tend to begin and end at lame trolling, harassing "liberals", lying about stuff, and just kind of being assholes thinking that's the joke yeah. It's hard to find much time to be funny in-between whining, complaining about "the other" doing a thing they probably aren't even doing and casting yourself as a victim of injustice all the time though. My loving god do conservatives loving whine a lot, it really is their defining trait in the post-Trump era. Yeah, it's like "why can't I just enjoy a nice family christmas without my weirdo trans cousin and 'its'...uh...what's the pronoun these days? 'Partner'? Ruining my traditional Jesus' Birthday?" and THAT's the entire joke. Calling someone an "IT". It's Guess WHo's Coming to Dinner only with liberals, queers, atheists and know it all first year college students who care about the environment automatically making people uncomfortable. But I immediately think of a movie like Little Miss Sunshine, for instance, that managed to pull off a plot with a similar amount of family dysfunction, gay characters, crotchety but sympathetic "conservative" types and somehow make it work. Silicon Valley takes shots at every conceivable stereotype and is hilariously funny. It "punches down" on the character of Dinesh (for being ugly), stoners, militant feminists, some Asian stereotypes (Yang), upwardly mobile/cold female characters and all sorts of poo poo but it's not just "look at this person who is gay/fat/vegetarian/anti war/female" or whatever it is ruining America and getting in my way of happiness. You have to make your characters actual people and dig a little bit to unearth the hypocrisy, human flaws, sympathetic traits and nuances. I think I discovered the problem. Nuance is not a thing most conservatives are fond of or can deal with. BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 16:38
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Yeah, that's what I mean by subtext. Take King of the Hill for example. They mock leftists, but they do it in the same way they mock conservatives-Hank gets portrayed as the Voice of Reason but too uptight. The liberal strawman characters also often get redeemed in their own way through the episode; like the yoga physical therapist that helps exonerate Hank in court, or the anger management counselor that shows Hank the long term outcome of not regulating his anger. Meanwhile the conservatives Hank often likes initially let him down one way or another. They're portrayed as bad not due to simplistic partisan reasons but because they often let Hank down. They don't follow up on the beliefs they espouse and it holds Hank back. Hank desperately wants the approval and respect of his conservative idols and yet they trample all over him for it-take Cotton and Mr Strickland as examples. We went and saw Book of Mormon, and it skewered Mormonism in the same way-the protagonists weren't mocking the religion as being hypocritical and wrong, quite the opposite-they were the only ones trying to be sincere and consistent in their faith and struggling with how their faith didn't really care about any of that in the end.
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Jan 19, 2023 16:57
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Ichabod Sexbeast posted:Arguably, Frasier is conservative comedy - Frasier himself is an effete ivory tower liberal snob who often needs to be brought back down to earth by his no-nonsense retired cop dad Frasier is definitely conservative comedy if we need to add political labels to comedy (especially considering how homophobic some of the late season episodes get). I think it works for a few reasons. Frasier and Niles are privileged snobs, so it's punching up. The characters are caricatures, but they're lovable ones, not loathsome ones. Kelsey Grammar's dislike for the kind of person Frasier comes off as self-deprecating. And most importantly, it's not a polemic. Its purpose is not to make a political statement. Its purpose is to make viewers laugh at these absurd people and their hijinks.
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Jan 19, 2023 17:14
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Most of the comments are,  "You are a socialist, therefore you are a hypocrite for not being poor"https://twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1615955434007068673?t=Fx91G0lLj5_jnDpknIfUzw&s=19
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Jan 19, 2023 17:55
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Panfilo posted:Yeah, that's what I mean by subtext.
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Jan 19, 2023 19:17
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Any art, comedy movies or whatever, will be bad if it is created entirely for the purpose of serving some political agenda instead of for its own sake. This is true for liberals as well as conservatives but it’s the conservatives who have a paucity of creative members and are always trying to generate creative material to specifically be conservative comedy conservative movies etc which is why they are generally crap. And I wouldn’t even include Dinesh in this category, his stuff are specifically political propaganda pseudo documentaries without any other purpose like being a comedy or family film etc. Like someone who is talented but happens to have right wing politics like Charlton Heston or Clint Eastwood or Bruce Willis or even James loving Woods can appear in or even write, produce, direct stuff that has real creative value and even have a conservative slant as long as right wing politics isn’t the entire and only driving force behind it.
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Jan 19, 2023 19:19
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