|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I thoroughly enjoyed the Auberyad, and have been on a bit of a Napoleonic Era kick ever since. I was wondering, what is this threads opinion on the Sharpe books? I have heard that they get on the repetitious side of things, but that aside are they worth the time it takes to read them? Not Napoleonic and kind of wildly different, but the Flashman books are pretty fun in their intentionally awful way. E: just, uh, don't listen to any of the Flashman audiobooks on a speaker in public. Kaiser Schnitzel fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Jan 16, 2023 |
#
?
Jan 16, 2023 18:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 09:08 |
|
|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I thoroughly enjoyed the Auberyad, and have been on a bit of a Napoleonic Era kick ever since. I was wondering, what is this threads opinion on the Sharpe books? I have heard that they get on the repetitious side of things, but that aside are they worth the time it takes to read them? They're great, just repetitive. Sharpe meets a woman. Sharpe meets a snobby officer. Sharpe gets a task from Wellington. Snobby officer kidnaps woman/is working for the french/both. Sharpe fights officer. Sharpe completes task. Sharpe gets woman. Wash, rinse and repeat. They're a *fantastic* way to learn about Napoleonic battles though, so I highly recommend them until you get bored of the pattern. I'll still pick one up every now and again because I know what I'm getting and I know it will be entertaining. Honestly though, if you loved Aubrey-Maturin, my recommendation goes in a slightly different direction: Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. It's the same type of humor.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2023 18:53
|
|
|
Jeez, spoiler alert there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2023 18:57
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I thoroughly enjoyed the Auberyad, and have been on a bit of a Napoleonic Era kick ever since. I was wondering, what is this threads opinion on the Sharpe books? I have heard that they get on the repetitious side of things, but that aside are they worth the time it takes to read them? As others have said, they're very good, just not great -- better than most historical fiction just not on the same level of prose or characterization as Patrick O'Brian's writing. They're one of the few series where you probably want to read them in internal chronological order, rather than in the order the author wrote them, because Cornwell plotted Sharpe's whole career out start to finish first, then wrote whichever parts seemed interesting until he'd filled it all in.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2023 18:59
|
|
|
Going to third Jonathon Strange as probably being closer to what you are looking for in some respects. Beyond that, the Sharpe novels are worth reading but as soon as you start getting bored, stop, because they won't change or get better or do anything new. They're fun, but also repetitive. I don't know, imagine if Aubrey captures the Cacafuego and then at his court martial is reassigned to another sloop and next book, he takes that sloop and sinks a frigate and would be promoted except for that dastardly admiral Harte so next book he takes his sloop and loses his first ship but he sinks two so he gets another ship again. Then in the next book he captures a fort or something, which is oddly like a ship that doesn't sail anywhere. Then he he gets a really big ship and sinks some bigger ships. They'd still be fun, they just wouldn't be elevated the O'Brian does it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2023 00:46
|
|
|
The trick to the Sharpe novels is to space out reading them. They do not hold up well when binged.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2023 01:59
|
|
|
Echoing both Sharpe and Strange&Norell. Sharpe is using the same servicable pulpy plot over and over to show you the campaigns of Wellington. He is very much not using it as a vehicle to say anything about the human condition or what ever. I have enjoyed them as they scratch the Napoleonic tactics itch very well, but unlike O’Brian, that’s all they do. Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell is a fantastic fun look at Regency England, told in a mock contemporary voice. I am on my way through for the third time now, this time listening to the audiobook, which is also excellent. There are TV series to both. I haven’t really looked at Sharpe in a long while, but the Strange & Norell series is reasonably recent and really good as well. Here’s the TV:IV thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3727094&perpage=40&noseen=1 bondetamp fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Jan 17, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2023 12:21
|
|
|
I'll put in a word for Brigadier Gerard by Arthur Conan-Doyle, a view from the French side and very funny. https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/11247
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2023 13:04
|
|
|
Thanks for the posts, friend goons! The narrator for the sharp audiobooks is pretty good, so I can see myself listening to at least the first book or two before possibly getting bored. I’ll look into those other suggestions as well! I haven’t heard of them before this thread.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2023 15:39
|
|
|
Also I can't believe I didn't suggest the obvious. Jane Austen. My love of Aubrey-Maturin taught me to read Jane Austen, and they're very similar in feel, since she was POB's favorite author.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
yaffle posted:I'll put in a word for Brigadier Gerard by Arthur Conan-Doyle, a view from the French side and very funny. I remember reading these! Absolutely hilarious. The fox hunting bit really sticks in my memory.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2023 22:13
|
|
|
yaffle posted:I'll put in a word for Brigadier Gerard by Arthur Conan-Doyle, a view from the French side and very funny. And here's the second collection There's some turns towards seriousness in some of these that work really well - there's a lovely melancholy sequence where he watches troops heading off to the Crimean war (I think) before launching into one of his stories and the rout at Waterloo is wonderfully described. Are there any other historical series that take the French side of the Napoleonic era? There's the Gerard stories and Dumas's Sainte-Hermine books, but I can't think of anything modern.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2023 21:24
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I thoroughly enjoyed the Auberyad, and have been on a bit of a Napoleonic Era kick ever since. I was wondering, what is this threads opinion on the Sharpe books? I have heard that they get on the repetitious side of things, but that aside are they worth the time it takes to read them? I've read them all and enjoy them but whether I'd recommend them or not depends on what you like about the Aubreyad. In addition to the fact that they get repetitive and they're more of a pulp/action style of book than O'Brian, the characters are discernably more modern. Cornwell is better about that IMO than a lot of authors, but his characters' motivations and general worldview is a little more simplistic and influenced by modern thinking than O'Brian's characters. Sharpe has basically no echoes of Jane Austen, while one of the thing I like about O'Brian is how his characters feel authentic to the period and like they were written by a contemporary. I think the Sharpe series is more like the Hornblower series than Aubrey/Maturin. But still, IMO it's worth reading and it will give you a very different point of view on the wars than you get from O'Brian, where the wars on the land are barely even mentioned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 19:13
|
|
|
Sharpe also bizarrely manages to be at Trafalgar while Aubrey doesnt
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 19:17
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:Sharpe also bizarrely manages to be at Trafalgar while Aubrey doesnt
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 21:29
|
|
|
Nektu posted:Huh? Didnt he serve under nelson in that battle (as mipshipman I think?), or was that a different important battle? No, I think Aubrey was a Lt at the Nile. I think that Trafalgar occurs between HMS Surprise and The Mauritius Command.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 21:42
|
|
|
I know the timeline is pretty nebulous, but this one does put it about then.quote:HMS Surprise
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 23:39
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:I thoroughly enjoyed the Auberyad, and have been on a bit of a Napoleonic Era kick ever since. I was wondering, what is this threads opinion on the Sharpe books? I have heard that they get on the repetitious side of things, but that aside are they worth the time it takes to read them? Sharpe also has way more to say about just how poo poo 19th century aristocrats are, so if you want slightly deeper commentary than the A-M books, that might be interesting. Edit - Sharpe doesn't have a consistent crew (though he does eventually get a consistent sidekick), commander, nemesis (kinda, he gets 2-3 through the series and the Indian prequels really lean into "you know this guy isn't going to die because he shows up later"), love interest (half the stories don't even have one) scale or nature of operations ("go do a thing" ranging from "pretend to desert" "find a treasure" "kill a dude" "uncover a spy" "fight an actual battle with no particular part reserved for your heroics" "fight at Trafalgar, which is described in a way that's actually more interesting and understandable than any naval combat in A-M"). Raskolnikov2089 posted:Every book is basically the same. Xander77 fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 01:10
|
|
|
Xander77 posted:In my opinion, the Aubrey-Maturin books, with the same basic setting (a ship), same crew of characters and same gags are WAY the gently caress more repetitious than Sharpe. But others in the thread don't share that opinion. ADDING Aubrey-Maturin has a much better film, but there’s more of Sharpe’s films, and they’re (mostly) good and entertaining, with only one real stinker out of the lot, also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE8d-uGmIWk I like Sharpe very much but they did not worm deep into my brain the way Aubrey-Maturin did, but the series complement each other imo and are worth the time and investment.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 01:57
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Also I can't believe I didn't suggest the obvious. Jane Austen. Can't second this enough. Austen is a delight to read, except I had to get older and gayer to realize this.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 03:07
|
|
|
https://www.somethingawful.com/awful-movie-database/sharpes-piss-pot/
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 14:17
|
|
|
Now I want a tour of Fort Attaboy
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 18:17
|
|
|
Huggybear posted:Can't second this enough. Austen is a delight to read, except I had to get older and gayer to realize this. My first introduction to Austen was Pride and Prejudice came downloaded for free on one of the first Kindles I got. Randomly decided to read it and loved it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 18:23
|
|
|
A Proper Uppercut posted:My first introduction to Austen was Pride and Prejudice came downloaded for free on one of the first Kindles I got. Randomly decided to read it and loved it. Yeah Austen is public domain, if anyone's interested. I read Pride and Prejudice last year and it deserves the hype.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 18:36
|
|
|
FWIW I like the bits of sharpe that go over battles and the perspective of one man during them. I don't think the narrative really talks much about human conditions, relations, etc in the same way that the Aubrey/maturin books do. Just as an example, the guy that rows maturin out to the birdshit island spends some time talking to maturin about his wife, how unhappy he is in his marriage and why he'd elected to go back to sea to get away from the situation as a whole. There's not anything approaching that sort of conversation in the Sharpe books I've read and I've read a lot (but not all) of them. I will further say that Aubrey/maturin got me into Jane Austen and her characters and situations are really intriguing for me. Ive really enjoyed a podcast called first impressions about Jane Austen's (and others) works.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 19:57
|
|
|
God I love these books. I started reading them in 04 and have gone through the series who knows how many times. I was a lubber when I first picked up the books and most of the technical stuff sailed right over my head, as it did for most of us. Then I learned to sail when I volunteered on a historic tallship - the Enterprize, a topsail gaff schooner, replica of the ship that brought the first settlers to Melbourne, Australia. She was a fat little merchant vessel, but full of charm. We did everything like in the old days, except with modern OHS. Hand stitched sails, hemp lines laid in stockholm tar, the whole nine yards. I tell you what, the first time I reefed the topsail at night in rough weather, standing on the ratlines out on the yard, and (due to the roll of the ship in heavy seas) I looked straight down into black water, I gained a new appreciation of the lives of the topmen! Reading the series for a second time afterwards, I understood more of the sailing terms and really gained an appreciation for the depth of OBrien's knowledge and research. I was in the military at the time and found solace in Jack's travails between appointments and ships, where I shared his frustrations as opportunities went to others. I ended up buying my own yacht, a fine old trimaran which I sailed throughout Asia and the Pacific. Many long night watches were spent with Jack and Stephen and my other old friends. I spent some five years on that boat, going from an enthusiastic amateur to becoming a professional skipper, hired to get boats out of difficult situations. Once I had to take over a yacht delivery, where the previous skipper had had a nervious breakdown and abandoned the boat in Palau Micronesia. I ended up taking it all the way to its final destination in New Zealand, and I got to hook one of the volunteer crew on the Aubreyad. It was a delight watching someone discover these books for the first time as we undertook our own sea adventure. When I first read them, I loved the battles and schemes and the wombat shenanigans as we all do. But now, when I read them again, it is the depth of the humanity in the writing that really resonates. How the intricate web of these people’s lives grow and change over the course of some twenty years reflects my own growth and change over that time. Reading through the Aubrey-Maturin Chronology that was posted above prompted this post, when you see how OBrien jammed too much into the first four books before he settled down and started the narrative arcs which would thread the series. It is perhaps the passage in the Commodore, which I'll link, where Stephen secretly listens to Jack playing his violin and realises that, even after all this time, there is still so much he does not know about his particular friend, that I most love. As it is with me and these novels, where after nearly twenty years, I can dip into them again and discover something new each time. It is for this reason that I can never get into Sharpe or Hornblower or anything comparable. They may have the adventures and the battles but they lack the humanity of the quiet moments, which is where I find the true magic of the O’Brien’s writing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 04:10
|
|
|
I think if you want the closest thing to more Aubrey-Maturin, then you should read the Hornblower series. I think they just about match O'Brien as far as feeling true to the time period, and they're solid reads. Hornblower does some fun things but the character in general is a much less fun than anyone in the A-M series, though, kind of a depressing stick-in-the-mud sorta guy. The books don't touch on life outside the Navy nearly as much, either, and the timeline isn't always consistent from book to book -- I think there are quite a few retcons as the author jumps around to write interesting events into different points in Hornblower's career. Still pretty good books, though, just can't compare to O'Brien. Agree with everything that's been said on the Sharpe books, too -- they're fun reads but you finish a couple and you've kinda seen em all. Xander77 posted:In my opinion, the Aubrey-Maturin books, with the same basic setting (a ship), same crew of characters and same gags are WAY the gently caress more repetitious than Sharpe. But others in the thread don't share that opinion. This is cracked, though, right? Sometimes they're stuck on land in England for most of the book, sometimes they're stuck on land in America, sometimes they go ashore on ill-advised trips through the desert, sometimes they're on a ship but stop in India or Australia or some desolate island, sometimes they're stuck doing convoy duty, sometimes they're out cruising and taking prizes, sometimes they're part of a squadron hunting for the French. I've only read 4-5 Sharpe books but I didn't think there was really any comparison.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 06:59
|
|
|
It's all just dudes sailing around on ships.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 07:02
|
|
|
Sometimes it's guys stuck on a remote southern island with no rudder and no forge
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 16:28
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Sometimes it's guys stuck on a remote southern island with no rudder and no forge My favourite adventure genre!!
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 16:33
|
|
|
For some additional Napoleonic recs, check out Mr. Midshipman Easy, by Marryat, who actually served in the royal navy, the Charterhouse of Parma, really more of a shaggy dog adventure story, but with Napoleon in the background and a memorable description of Waterloo. Stendhal served with Napoleon as well. Finally, if you have some time, I highly recommend War and Peace, wonderful descriptions of the Austerlitz campaign, as well as everything else you could cram into a novel. Wonderful characters, who feel true to life, including all the short sightedness and foolishness that we always we regret in ourselves and others.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 19:41
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:Sometimes it's guys stuck on a remote southern island with no rudder and no forge Sometimes it's guys stuck in the water with no remote southern island, no rudder, and no forge!
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2023 21:27
|
|
|
PatMarshall posted:For some additional Napoleonic recs, check out Mr. Midshipman Easy, by Marryat, who actually served in the royal navy, the Charterhouse of Parma, really more of a shaggy dog adventure story, but with Napoleon in the background and a memorable description of Waterloo. Stendhal served with Napoleon as well. Finally, if you have some time, I highly recommend War and Peace, wonderful descriptions of the Austerlitz campaign, as well as everything else you could cram into a novel. Wonderful characters, who feel true to life, including all the short sightedness and foolishness that we always we regret in ourselves and others. Mosfilm's YouTube channel uploaded high quality versions of Sergey Bondarchuk's War and Peace quartet as part of glut of war flicks to coincide with the Russian invasion of Ukraine. If you can get past the propagandistic framing (which is kind of appropriate for a production greenlit out of the mentality of an arms race - look foul westerners at how our historical epic is so much more loving ginormous than your historical epics and despair!) it’s a compelling watch, filled with bold, strange and indulgent choices that pay off more of than not – though Bondarchuk’s decision to play Pierre Bezukhov never does. Part one is a bit patchy and you get the sense that they weren’t sure how to wrangle to the scale of the production quite yet. But parts two, three and four are great and the massive crowd sequences – courtesy of the Russian army offering up tens of thousands of soldiers to work as extras – near the end at the Battle of Borodino and during the sack of Moscow are some of the most extraordinary ever filmed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2023 03:42
|
|
|
This was really cool to read, thanks for sharing
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2023 04:07
|
|
|
I'm on trip 3 with The Commodore. It is charming how ready Mrs. Woods is to accept Stephen's illicit advances and how little notice he takes of her interest, thinking about his poto and having already decided he's too old and ugly for her.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
Mr. Mambold posted:Sometimes it's guys stuck in the water with no remote southern island, no rudder, and no forge! No matter what, it’s about friendship. Sharpe is about sharpe being bad to the bone. Pay your money, make your choice. Lockback posted:This was really cool to read, thanks for sharing Agreed!
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2023 14:57
|
|
|
So I recently started reading these after rewatching the movie for the first time since it was in cinemas and I'm loving it. I just finished up Post Captain, which felt a bit disjointed, how was the first book received? Post feels like a slight reset after the first one took off more than expected? Spoilers from here, although I don't think there isn't anything in here that isn't in the blurb for the book Anyway, my question is, how exactly did Aubrey end up in so much debt? I must have missed something important and I think I'm not entirely sure on how the prize agent system works. So when they take a ship, it goes to a naval court to be decided on how to be divided up, and your prize-agent lobbies on your behalf for the best share of that prize? How did he end up owing some other debtors if the prize-agent ran away with the money? Was it because he spent big on that estate before he'd actually received the money? Wouldn't the Cacafuego have covered for anything like that? I kind of read it in two big chunks on either side of the Christmas break so I may have forgotten an important detail over that period. Also, would a giant bear costume really have worked? Were the people that easily taken? How the hell do you get a bear costume in wartime France anyway? That whole scene, while fun, seemed really out of place to me. screaden fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2023 00:17
|
|
|
The Cacafuego was not sold to the admiralty at all, so its prize was many times lower than they expected.* Young Jack wasn't exactly cautious about prizes he brought in, and he was sued by neutral owners for monetary damages from seizing and condemning their ships which he had no right to do. In course after such a successful cruise this wasn't a problem as Jack could easily pay damages if he lost his suit. But however after the prize agent absconded to South America with Jack's fortune, the liabilities from the suits against him were far, far larger than his net worth. * The Sophies treat this is a monstrous injustice, but from the admiralty's perspective the Cacafuego would have been a troublesome boondoggle. They were right to sell it at auction rather than buy it into the service. While it may be in the frigate weight class its still a xebec in construction and rig. Neither the officers nor the able seamen of the RN would know what to do with her. Being a frigate she's a substantial warship and an expense to keep in operation, but a constant headache for the port admiral to keep manned and supplied. Better to condemn her and just build another 32 gun fifth rate. This is straight from history by the way, El Gamo like her fictional sister ship was sold to an Algerian merchant. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jan 25, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2023 00:42
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:The Cacafuego was not sold to the admiralty at all, so its prize was many times lower than they expected. Young Jack wasn't exactly cautious about prizes he brought in, and he was sued by neutral owners for monetary damages from seizing and condemning their ships which he had no right to do. In course after such a successful cruise this wasn't a problem as Jack could easily pay damages if he lost his suit. But however after the prize agent absconded to South America with Jack's fortune, the liabilities from the suits against him were far, far larger than his net worth. Hell I totally missed all of this. I'm almost done with my first read (listen)through, I'll probably start right back over again and see a lot of stuff I missed, but will probably pick up the books this time.
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2023 00:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 16, 2024 09:08 |
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:and he was sued by neutral owners for monetary damages from seizing and condemning their ships which he had no right to do. Ah this was the part I must have overlooked somehow. Is it noted who the Cacafuego actually belonged to?
|
|
#
?
Jan 25, 2023 00:51
|
|