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CommonShore posted:Yeah any activity >>> no activity. Just find a place that you think you're happy to hang out and get your body moving.  Another red flag might be not being up front about costs. We've recently gained quite a few members from a local ITF school because they've upped their prices significantly and supposedly won't tell prospective students dues until after you go "into the office" to chat. Sounds like buying a car at a dealership. Make sure they're approachable, answer your questions (and always ask something you're unsure of) and don't seem to be full of poo poo. Don't be scared to ask a question about their qualifications or their "pedigree" for lack of a better word. I know a club that touts themselves as "provincial champions" which, while not a lie, is based on a small tournament with only a handful of related schools competing. Ask about insurance. Sit in on at least one class without participating (on the sidelines like a parent watching their kid) and get a feel of the vibe. Watch how the instructors and other members interact among themselves but especially the junior members (should be easy to recognize) because that'll be you. Arguably the toughest decision is figuratively going through the front door, especially as an adult on your own volition. I started about 6 years ago, ~44, totally outside my wheelhouse and didn't know a god drat person or have a clue what it was about, so it was quite a leap and totally out of character. I now have a fairly deep social circle with many members are now among my closest friends. Like you I was terrible at getting motivated and sticking with exercise and my body was definitely starting to feel my age. Having a schedule of when you know class is on, your friends will be there helps me get off my rear end. Even to this day sometimes I really don't feel like going, but going there lets me forget about my daily crap with my life/job and I'm always glad I went afterwards, even if I didn't feel quite up to it before hand. If I don't train for more than a few days, I get cagey and feel a *need* to do it, or of not specifically train in my art to do some fairly strenuous activity for at least a half hour or so. I actually had a BB come back to our club (moved away for school in 2018) and when I first saw him last week he looked at me and said "You know, you look younger than when I last saw you" which, as a guy who just turned 50, was possibly the best thing anyone has said to me out of the blue in some time. . . . Regarding meals and eating, I find what works best for me is when I have my lunch as my primary meal at 12-2ish (depends on what I'm doing) and that'll generally take me until I train usually ~7 and generally it's mostly moved through the upper digestive tract by then. If I get a feeling like I need to eat something before then I'll have something light... peanut butter toast, maybe an energy bar, some dried fruit and/or nuts or something. After I get home at 8:30-9 I might have a small meal. I do not do well training on a full stomach. This is actually probably the single biggest thing where my training causes contention with Mrs. Slidebite, is we often don't eat together and she misses it.
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Jan 19, 2023 16:22
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"Is X suitable for a beginner" is always such a funny question to me. Like how do you think people become not-beginners
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Jan 19, 2023 16:33
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Mechafunkzilla posted:"Is X suitable for a beginner" is always such a funny question to me. Like how do you think people become not-beginners oh yeah I missed that question. I like telling new people "hey just keep showing up - a black belt is a white belt who was too stupid to quit"
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Jan 19, 2023 17:01
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Mechafunkzilla posted:"Is X suitable for a beginner" is always such a funny question to me. Like how do you think people become not-beginners To address this and what the other person remarked on (planning to fight): I had just done a bit of reading on arts that I felt were interesting--priniples/objectives, etc, and a few things that were commonly sprinkled around various analyses and forums was that WC is very utilitarian and combat-centric, because of its short range and pressure. So it would make sense for someone who--for example--wants to compete and up their repertoire, ro someone who's already athletic and wants to try martial arts with their already-capable body. I'm neither of those, so I wasn't sure if I should try anything easier! But all of your responses are encouraging, and I'll definitely drop by after work today. Hoping it's a good place, because it's the only interesting locale within a half hour of me.  Thank you, folks! (And please continue if you do have more input/advice) Morter fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 17:12
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Morter posted:To address this and what the other person remarked on (planning to fight): I had just done a bit of reading on arts that I felt were interesting--priniples/objectives, etc, and a few things that were commonly sprinkled around various analyses and forums was that WC is very utilitarian and combat-centric, because of its short range and pressure. So it would make sense for someone who--for example--wants to compete and up their repertoire, ro someone who's already athletic and wants to try martial arts with their already-capable body. Having spent some time around the Chinese martial arts community when I've competed in shuai jiao, I will say that having an aleady fit and athletic body is not something you will have to worry about, friend
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Jan 19, 2023 17:57
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Camaraderie and an atmosphere that offers structure but also room for questions and specific feedback should be what your looking for if you don't care about martial applications. There's a lot of bs out there, and WC schools, asking with other traditional arts, tend to be high in it. I personally would not want to go to a place where i was being taught that techniques that were not effective were actually deadly. WC has some good ideas, and I buy into the claim of "up their repertoire" -- having some new concepts to try out for managing the range just inside punch distance is a good thing. But it's very specific and there's much more going on outside and inside that range that WC doesn't address. That's immaterial if you like the institution and like your training partners. But yeah, Mechafunkzilla posted:I will say that having an aleady fit and athletic body is not something you will have to worry about, friend
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Jan 19, 2023 19:00
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Morter posted:To address this and what the other person remarked on (planning to fight): I had just done a bit of reading on arts that I felt were interesting--priniples/objectives, etc, and a few things that were commonly sprinkled around various analyses and forums was that WC is very utilitarian and combat-centric, because of its short range and pressure. So it would make sense for someone who--for example--wants to compete and up their repertoire, ro someone who's already athletic and wants to try martial arts with their already-capable body. I don’t want to ask revealing information if you’re not comfortable but does this school have a website we could look at? Sometimes you get a lot of info sometimes you don’t get any.
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Jan 19, 2023 19:56
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Thirteen Orphans posted:I don’t want to ask revealing information if you’re not comfortable but does this school have a website we could look at? Sometimes you get a lot of info sometimes you don’t get any. I mean, if you wanna!  https://www.mengsmartialarts.com/
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Jan 19, 2023 20:22
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Morter posted:I mean, if you wanna! The place honestly looks great
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Jan 19, 2023 20:53
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Morter posted:I mean, if you wanna! Wow, big organization! I have heard of Benny Meng and his Wing Chun, the “Shaolin Wing Chun,” but unfortunately I’ve never seen it in practice. Definitely worth the free trial class! Mechafunkzilla posted:The place honestly looks great I agree.
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Jan 19, 2023 20:55
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Avoid any dojo that looks like it's using website design less than 10 years old. If the website is slick hit da bricks.
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Jan 19, 2023 21:01
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Man, I'd totally check that place out; looks awesome! BJJ gi talk! I picked up a Sanabul Core when I started and am just now starting to see it shrink a little. Not terrible, but regardless, I wanted to get at least one more. Amazon has a bunch on their "try before you buy" deal, so I grabbed a couple of Hayabusa ones to try on. I'm wearing an A2 in Sanabul and know they run a little different sizing, so I got an A2 and A3. The A2 jacket actually fits fairly well, but man the pants are so tight in the hips I can't move in them and barely even get them on. The A3 pants fit a little better, but still a bit snug, but are a little long. The kimono feels like it fits "ok" in the body, but the arms go halfway down my hands. Anyone wear their stuff and see anything similar? ninja edit: I'm 5'10" 195 36-38 waist L/XL tshirt
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Jan 19, 2023 22:25
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Morter posted:I mean, if you wanna! I've seen the Meng sons compete in Sanshou at the national events I've been to. The sanshou instruction is obviously real and effective. But I didn't see any WC techniques in their competition style, even though they apply the Wing Chun label to the entire umbrella of their martial arts instruction. I can't quite figure out how they differentiate classes in their class schedule. kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 19, 2023 22:44
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EdsTeioh posted:Man, I'd totally check that place out; looks awesome! Do they have A2H options? I have wide hips and girthy thighs, and the "husky" pants tend to fit me a bit better while being an appropriate length. My mom can hem stuff for me, but it's a pain in the rear end, and I try to avoid it.
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Jan 19, 2023 23:56
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:Do they have A2H options? I have wide hips and girthy thighs, and the "husky" pants tend to fit me a bit better while being an appropriate length. My mom can hem stuff for me, but it's a pain in the rear end, and I try to avoid it. Nah, Hayabusa doesn't do H sizes. I'm thinking about trying out one of those Inverted Gear ones; I mean, who doesn't want a cool panda on their gi?
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Jan 20, 2023 00:01
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Just came back from Meng's. Nice place, and I'm quite interested! This might be the wrong place to ask (and I'll edit it out if it is), but after observing on Tuesday, if I want, I can take an introductory 5 classes + uniform for $175. Does this seem like a fair price? I only ask because I have no real sense of reference/scale.
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Jan 20, 2023 01:51
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Morter posted:Just came back from Meng's. Nice place, and I'm quite interested! This might be the wrong place to ask (and I'll edit it out if it is), but after observing on Tuesday, if I want, I can take an introductory 5 classes + uniform for $175. Does this seem like a fair price? I only ask because I have no real sense of reference/scale. Did you get into regular monthly unlimited classes pricing? How many days a week do you think you'll be training?
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Jan 20, 2023 02:26
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kimbo305 posted:Did you get into regular monthly unlimited classes pricing? How many days a week do you think you'll be training? I did see a 'returning students $195'. I'm certain that's per month but I'll definitely make sure. They wanted minimum 2 classes a week (each an hour) and I can do up to 3 a week, but based on scheduling I can only do 2/wk anyway.
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Jan 20, 2023 02:49
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That seems complicated. We just charge monthly and you can show up for whatever.
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Jan 20, 2023 03:25
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Maybe the minimum was just the recommended instruction for meaningful progression. I tend to agree -- one hour a week is gonna be slow once your fitness catches up to the new workout demands. $195 is normal around here for unlimited. Not sure how cost of living works out, but if you can afford it, try it for a couple months. Is there a minimum contract term?
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Jan 20, 2023 04:19
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Sorry it wasn't clear: Minimum 2 classes a week, so at least 2 hours. Plus, literally my schedule only allows for two classes (because their adult classes start as my shift ends except on one day, and I can take the other on my off day) I don't know about the minimum contract, but i'll be sure to ask that too. I didn't do the haggling up front since the observation date's the better part of a week away.
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Jan 20, 2023 04:28
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Morter posted:Sorry it wasn't clear: Minimum 2 classes a week, so at least 2 hours. What's surprising is that there's any minimum requirement. A gym should be ok with you not attending but still getting your money. Requested attendance is high expectations of the student, but in a potentially productive way.
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Jan 20, 2023 05:04
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I've seen that before for beginners, when they're running a fairly strict syllabus and don't want to spend time/effort on catching people up. If anything, it's a sign that they care about progress and not just money.
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Jan 20, 2023 05:11
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That seems quite high to me, but I know our club 100% owns our building. I suppose in a place with high property costs and a mortgage/rent $$ is going to be high. Mandatory minimum classes, I kinda can see the logic in it, but we've never really had a problem. Different arts, different requirements? I guess the risk of the OPs scenario was if his schedule literally only allows a max of 2 classes per week, that's not leaving you much room in case ~life~ happens. Make sure you're OK with that and ask what happens if you miss a couple classes. Results of a top of foot meeting an elbow weds night.  Of course, we focused pretty much on kicking drills last night  Don't mind the ugly big toenail, I lost it last summer and it's finally getting close to semi-normal.
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Jan 20, 2023 15:47
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Edit: what an I thinking my gym is like $150 or something I'm just oblivious to it because it's been drafting for years and I don't think about it.
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Jan 20, 2023 16:03
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We're $85/month with unlimited classes (7 per week if you can swing it) and privileges at our sister schools. BUT, I suppose we're the outliers by the sounds of it.
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Jan 20, 2023 16:16
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I think it depends a lot on area and art. Around here, 125 to 200 gets you unlimited classes for mma or bjj. 30 to 50 gets you in the door at a boxing gym, but then classes are usually 20 each.
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Jan 20, 2023 16:19
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we're CA100 for unlimited grappling (6 classes/wk + 2 open mats + come down any time if you can find a keyholder to train with) or unlimited kickboxing (2/3 classes/wk + the rest), CA125 for all access, or CA75 for just two judo classes/wk. We're also in a place that you can buy a reasonable house pretty easily for under $250,000.
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Jan 20, 2023 16:28
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Where I live you can buy a reasonable house for about 5 million usd and monthly gym fees tend to be around 200-250
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Jan 20, 2023 16:31
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I miss when my gym was $25/mo, unlimited everything, and they gave me a key when they realized I was a legitimate adult who'd come in and help with cleaning and maintenance once in a while. I don't think they raised the fees til maybe 2011?
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Jan 20, 2023 21:52
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So I'm going to observe a (Wing Chun) martial arts class/session tomorrow, and I honestly have nearly every intention of joining. I have taken notes on cautionary things with regards to membership, but what red flags should I look for when observing a class? I've never taken one before so I don't have a good barometer as to what might be poor form, negligent, etc. Or should I just see how I feel about it after watching, if I'm comfortable with it?
Morter fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 03:25
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Morter posted:So I'm going to observe a (Wing Chun) martial arts class/session tomorrow, and I honestly have nearly every intention of joining. I have taken notes on cautionary things with regards to membership, but what red flags should I look for when observing a class? I've never taken one before so I don't have a good barometer as to what might be poor form, negligent, etc. Or should I just see how I feel about it after watching, if I'm comfortable with it? Financial scams and contract fuckery are the big things to watch for. If you stay there for a month and decide it's nonsense at least make sure that it's possible to quit.
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Jan 24, 2023 04:03
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if a place doesn't allow me to sign a month to month contract (i.e. they demand a prepaid year or whatever) im not going there no matter how good they seem otherwise
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Jan 24, 2023 06:56
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Morter posted:So I'm going to observe a (Wing Chun) martial arts class/session tomorrow, and I honestly have nearly every intention of joining. I have taken notes on cautionary things with regards to membership, but what red flags should I look for when observing a class? I've never taken one before so I don't have a good barometer as to what might be poor form, negligent, etc. Or should I just see how I feel about it after watching, if I'm comfortable with it? Disclaimer -- I'm conversant in a few traditional Chinese martial arts, but have only ever practiced tai chi. I have tons of experience in sanshou but don't consider it a traditional martial art. Techniques should be explained in a broader context of fighting -- - is this something that's supposed to work in a sport with a given ruleset? - is this something that couldn't work well with a sport ruleset, but we teach it for the following benefits (control, timing, value in a traditional form)? - is this something that could work in self-defense or a street fight? A lot of the cautioning you're getting around Wing Chun is that it's one of various martial arts that're billed as extremely effective or extremely dangerous (to your opponent) to people who don't know any better. At one of these "bullshido" schools, things that don't work at all or don't work without appropriate setups are touted as excellent techniques, and then people are not really given enough freedom to actually try the move out in a realistic way (which would likely reveal to the more skeptical students that it doesn't work). Here's an example of a technique that's effective and effectively taught -- the jab. A punch from your lead arm that goes straight out and comes straight back. This is fundamental in boxing, and you drill it a lot in most striking combat sports. You can tell it's effective by the fact that the better students at a gym will land a jab more often, to greater effect (breaking up their sparring partner's rhythm or attempted moves, snapping their head back). If you see a technique that lands against someone who's aware of the technique and is actively trying to avoid getting caught by it, then you know that technique can be made to work in a "realistic" environment. And here, realistic can still be limited, as in doing boxing sparring to simulate boxing competition. It's not necessarily realistic to street fighting or self defense. Instruction focused on self defense is kinda weird. There's so many variables that you can't really train for them all. If it ever comes up with new students, I take a minute to say the following: - be aware of your surroundings, avoid into dangerous situations - try to run if there's space - give up your belongings if it's a mugging - if they still attack you, well, except to get stabbed or shot or stomped on the ground by multiple people. You can still try to fight them using your martial art skills, but that's the last thing in the progression, and the least helpful. Teaching for a sport is comparatively much easier. The rules are always known. The competition is more or less an even playing field. So back to Wing Chun. Schools might have a lot of emphasis on you doing the 3 forms. These look cool (beating on the wooden dummy is probably insanely cool to a casual viewer), and probably will work up a decent sweat if you apply yourself, but they don't offer much combat application by themselves. The forms and most WC instruction is done open handed. There's plenty of emphasis on using your fingers as spears to the eyes. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely do that if I got caught in some insane fight on the street -- using a jablike form to poke at someone's eyes is faster , has better reach, and is harder to stop than doing the same jab with a 16oz boxing glove on. I'd argue that it might even be safer in terms of breaking bones in your hand. But it's obviously hard to fully train landing finger jabs in a gym. WC sticky hands is a sparring format where you try to control and limit your partner's arms while simultaneously getting yours into a position to strike them. It's an interesting sensitivity drill and gives you some more refinement in terms of managing the space around and through forearms, but even in the most free formats, you're still not able to actually do the eyepokes or (much worse) any full body grappling or clinching. Here's some sparring footage from an affiliate school: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CutkL2AuEys&t=523s "our sparring ... is done to feel out and understand a certain range of combat" That's a credible admission that WC technique is inside a very limited domain within the overall realm of striking and grappling. I'd say it's a positive that this school is realistic about what you're gaining out of their training. Most kickboxers with a few years of training could acquit themselves just fine if you threw them in against those two. Kickboxers know how to defend their face and can score with kicks even when met with defense. Further on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CutkL2AuEys&t=588s This is probably the kind of sparring you're going to see sooner: chisao, sticky hands. On its face, it's interesting, you can get better at it, and it might be a good enough workout for your interests. But I wouldn't say it gets you far down the sport combat road if you don't graduate to more free forms of sparring. You could be a master of chisao and get absolutely raked over in a round of gloves-on kickboxing rules, because you don't get punched in the face enough to truly work to be able to deal with that. To tie it back into sanshou -- Vincent Meng, one of the Meng sons, has won a couple national titles in sanshou. Full power punching, kicking, and throws allowed. He's also won a world title in Wing Chun sparring rules competition. His sanshou style (as I've seen it) is completely conventional; it's not as though he's applying WC techniques or tactics to sanshou rules. I can't find video of him sparring in WC rules. But I would claim this illustrates the relatively low ceiling of development you get from WC training. A national level sanshou fighter who didn't rank that highly in world competition is good enough within the WC ruleset (and presumably leans on some of his athleticism/fitness) to be a world champ. Anyways, Meng's Martial Arts obviously also teaches sanshou, so that is always an option for your depending on how you like WC.
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Jan 24, 2023 07:21
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I moved an hour and a half from my Kyudo dojo and that, combined with the fact that it closed for pandemic, kind of resulted in me losing the will to do a three hour round trip every Saturday and while I’m still part of the club I have effectively retired. Without maintenance and practice, my form is hella bad and at this point my sho-dan certificate isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on, I’d imagine. Lots of good memories though — got to grade at Meiji Jingu in 2018, made lots of friends, fun tournaments. Life just gets in the way. I do have a big martial art shaped hole in my head so I’m kind of investigating a local Iaido club. Fifteen minute drive across town, weekend evening beginner classes. I’d been through a Kyudo beginner class in ~2014 so I’d presume that the format for Iaido would be fairly similar, though from what I gather reading about Iaido, Kyudo is more limited in what you’re teaching students — there’s one basic form (with nuances based on school, I know) and the entire ritual is fairly standard. I guess my question is any advice on what I can presumably expect a beginner Iaido course to look like. I’m waiting to hear back from the dojo so they’ll answer this for sure — here I guess I’m just trying to feel out a typical experience. What’s drawing me to Iaido? It was always a toss up between Kyudo and Iaido for me, the Kyudo club just happened to be taking members first at the time. Plus I already know how to tie a hakama so I guess that’s half the battle, right??
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Jan 31, 2023 13:00
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some kinda jackal posted:I moved an hour and a half from my Kyudo dojo and that, combined with the fact that it closed for pandemic, kind of resulted in me losing the will to do a three hour round trip every Saturday and while I’m still part of the club I have effectively retired. Without maintenance and practice, my form is hella bad and at this point my sho-dan certificate isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on, I’d imagine. Lots of good memories though — got to grade at Meiji Jingu in 2018, made lots of friends, fun tournaments. Life just gets in the way. It'll vary a lot depending on the dojo. Most wont have a beginner course. A lot of focus on reigi and then *probably* you be handed a bokken and taught basic kamae, shomen-uchi and footwork. You'll get pointers and then sent to a corner to practice on your own, with someone occasionally checking in on you. Learning to sit in seiza and tate-hiza is probably also on the list, both which can be uncomfortable (or initially impossible) for westerners. I'd expect a good 6 months of regular practice before you'll be told to buy an iaito. ZNKR iaido is, if anything, even more stylized than Kyudo.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:38
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This sounds about what I’d expect tbh. It was probably eight months to a year before we were allowed to actually load and shoot arrows, so this tracks. Won’t lie, I’m quite excited to learn 
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Feb 1, 2023 04:04
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I realized I'm starting to have less and less imposter syndrome. The more I assist with teaching, the more confidence I get. I sort of enjoy leading class and running the warm ups and coming up with stuff to change it up. The students seem to enjoy it too. Coincidentally, a couple of us BBs were chatting with one of the heads of our school last week and realized how introverted and quiet many of the younger adult class students are (lets say 14-17 years old). Not sure if some of it is a symptom of the past few years but covid probably didn't help. The majority of them don't speak up in class or ask questions... and have little "cliques" that they gravitate to where they feel most comfortable. No different then what kind of forms in school I guess. So master came up with an exercise that I thought was interesting. We had a fairly good size class last night, probably around 24 students from yellow to 1st Dan and everything in between. He had all the senior/BBs in the class pair off with a junior belt. He specifically said partner with someone you don't know. Then we had the senior belt instruct the junior how to do a jumping back kick. The Sr had to answer their questions and demo it. This was a little unusual and took some prodding, but the students got it. This went on for about 5 minutes. You could tell many of the Sr belts were a little out of their comfort zone but they pushed through it. (As a side, it is fascinating to watch how people teach someone who doesn't know something and you can really pick up on who knows their stuff and can explain well) Afterwards we had them all come to attention and master asked "OK, I see everyones been working and everyone looks pretty good. Now, a question: How many of you know the name of your partner?" Maybe... 30-40% tops raised their hands. Here was the hidden agenda. "OK, now bow and introduce yourself, thank each other for their time and change to a new partner. Jr belts, ask your new senior belt about any technique you have a question about. Seniors, answer their question to the best of your ability and demonstrate." This time there was immediately more interaction and the students were talking more and more comfortable right from the get go. Master specifically asked me to not correct any instruction because he said nothing will shake someones confidence more than someone who is unsure of themselves being corrected in front of everyone. We would go through proper technique as a group later on. ANYHOW, I thought it was an interesting exercise. You're not going to give confidence or force an introvert to be comfortable to open up in 10 minutes but it will be interesting to see if doing things like this periodically opens them up a bit more.
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Feb 9, 2023 16:04
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One of my students was out for a few weeks from a concussion, apparently. We were doing some throw drills and he just landed really hard on one. Didn't notice it right away, but got really forgetful (not closing doors, misplacing his keys) and had a mild headache for a week. He says he's all fine now, but it spooked his regular training partner buddy to see him go through it. Even though I stress the importance of controlling your fall and prioritizing protecting your head, I suppose I should talk through paying attention and making sure you're not getting subconcussive hits from rough throws. I frequently volunteer to get thrown by every student to see what their technique is missing, and between the random timing and inconsistent power, I get rattled quite a bit. I feel it a looooot more than I used to, after my last fight that ended by TKO and a poor recovery following that.
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Feb 9, 2023 16:22
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kimbo305 posted:One of my students was out for a few weeks from a concussion, apparently. We were doing some throw drills and he just landed really hard on one. Didn't notice it right away, but got really forgetful (not closing doors, misplacing his keys) and had a mild headache for a week. He says he's all fine now, but it spooked his regular training partner buddy to see him go through it. This is something coming up in our gym lately. We have a big open floor plan so two classes happen at the same time quite frequently. I was catching my breath after a roll and saw the MT guys doing some throws in sparring and I just screamed at one teenager "GOOBER (not his real name) IF YOU KEEP LANDING ON YOUR ELBOW LIKE THAT YOU'LL gently caress UP YOUR SHOULDER". Now the MT coach (a friend of mine, I should add) is gonna get me to show his team some breakfall drills leading in to competition and make his competitors do them as part of their warmup. It would be the dumbest possible thing to have a kickboxer take a bad injury from a fall rather than from a ... kick or punch, but falling badly is dangerous as poo poo. When I went to Rajadamnern too, I saw a slam KO so this is a th ing.
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Feb 9, 2023 16:30
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