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Typo posted:With sufficient migrants from the desolate wasteland that is Ontario Alberta might follow its hero Texas into having a competitive electoral environment instead of voting right 100% of the time outside of Calgary Lol, what? Edmonton is called the “eye of Layton” for a reason. Calgary is more UCP than NDP.
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Jan 18, 2023 03:37
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Typo posted:With sufficient migrants from the desolate wasteland that is Ontario Alberta might follow its hero Texas into having a competitive electoral environment instead of voting right 100% of the time outside of Calgary More likely you get the Beto effect, where native born Texans are willing to elect a Democrat but the people who moved there aspiring to the Texas lifestyle overwhelmingly voted for Canadian Ted Cruz.
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Jan 18, 2023 22:41
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More like Crap-tanian Ted Ooze
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Jan 19, 2023 00:17
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CBC has been running these title fraud stories for a couple weeks now, and this one seems to have the most detail of all, and unfortunately hits a lot of stereotypes. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/title-fraud-toronto-condo-1.6720439 CBC posted:But Yu, a former international student who now lives in China's Hubei province...only noticed that "something unusual" was going on with her condo, which she bought in 2017 for more than $800,000, when her monthly property management fees weren't charged last July. Million dollar condo sitting empty for three years, perfectly normal economy.
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Jan 20, 2023 17:04
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Yu, 24, only noticed that "something unusual" was going on with her condo, which she bought in 2017 for more than $800,000, when her monthly property management fees weren't charged last July. Yu, who moved back to China in 2019, said she reported the matter to police and her insurer. love to buy 800k condos at 18 years old before moving back to my home country for 3+ years
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Jan 20, 2023 17:10
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truly revolutionary expropriation of property from the rich
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Jan 20, 2023 17:10
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The Star had a pretty good article about international students and how the system is designed to extract maximal tuition (from undergrads) and cheap labour (from grad students) and it's just  to see so many layers of scamming like a mille-feuille of self-ownage (or not, anymore, for Ms Yu, 24).e: Tim Hudak popping in halfway through to hawk extra insurance that doesn't even do so much as photocopy your deed for the low price of $1000 and that, notably, Yu had and that did not in any way prevent the fraudulent sale of her "beloved property filled with all my memories", like a little museum of her time in undergrad, is a neat touch too. Precambrian Video Games fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 20, 2023 17:32
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So does title insurance just work totally backwards here? In the U.S., title insurance is there to reimburse the buyer and the lender in a scenario where it turns out the buyer doesn't end up holding title to the property (as would happen in this case) and the loan isn't secured against anything. There's basically no reason for an owner to purchase title insurance after closing.Segue posted:Million dollar condo sitting empty for three years, perfectly normal economy. I'm assured that empty condos aren't actually a thing that happens, and we can fix this problem that doesn't exist by building more condos that definitely won't sit empty.
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Jan 20, 2023 18:58
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I wonder how many empty condos owned by absent owners are being occupied by heroes without the owner knowing
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Jan 20, 2023 19:16
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RealityWarCriminal posted:Yu, 24, only noticed that "something unusual" was going on with her condo, which she bought in 2017 for more than $800,000, when her monthly property management fees weren't charged last July. Segue posted:CBC has been running these title fraud stories for a couple weeks now, and this one seems to have the most detail of all, and unfortunately hits a lot of stereotypes. To be fair, my mid-20s Chinese trust fund landlord is probably one of the better landlords I've ever had so far. Much better than the Canadian mom & pop landlords that evicted me the second the parabolic increases in housing values started to slow down.
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Jan 20, 2023 19:18
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Segue posted:CBC has been running these title fraud stories for a couple weeks now, and this one seems to have the most detail of all, and unfortunately hits a lot of stereotypes. well, that's one way to increase housing supply
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Jan 20, 2023 20:19
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Segue posted:CBC has been running these title fraud stories for a couple weeks now, and this one seems to have the most detail of all, and unfortunately hits a lot of stereotypes. I don't believe for a goddamn second that not one of the agents or lawyers was in on this poo poo.
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Jan 21, 2023 15:34
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With the huge organized crime presence in Toronto and the massive amounts of money that change hands in real estate sales and development there's definitely organized criminal involvement in the market. Then throw in the absolute idiocy of the Toronto police and.. god knows whats really going on.
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Jan 21, 2023 15:40
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RBC posted:Then throw in the absolute idiocy of the Toronto police The one believable part is someone could steal your entire house, bank account, wife, children, pets, and Toronto cops would just tell you "this is a civil matter" and go find a parking lot to hang out in.
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Jan 21, 2023 16:40
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Fidelitious posted:I don't believe for a goddamn second that not one of the agents or lawyers was in on this poo poo. This is the third of these stories I've read recently. Passed the second one along to a real estate lawyer I know and his response was pretty much "maybe things are very lax and different in Ontario, but it seems pretty much impossible for this to happen unless the lawyers and realtors are in on it."
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Jan 21, 2023 20:38
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I guess I should have read the article first- I thought someone had just moved into the unoccupied house, I didn’t realize identity thieves profited
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Jan 21, 2023 21:49
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My institution requires title insurance on all purchases to protect/weed out fraud. Its usually some sketchy lawyer needed to make title fraud work.
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Jan 21, 2023 22:56
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The article suggests that someone is living there now (presumably the buyer, who may or may not be in on the scheme), and that the original "rightful" owner had title insurance which should compensate her for the fraud. Anyway, a largely unremarkable article about Why Canada’s housing market is stronger than it looks — and a recovery is not far off, which I suppose reflects what people in the know want you to think: quote:It is difficult to imagine a weaker housing market than the one we are enduring. (god these single-sentence-fragment paragraphs are terrible) Anyway, gently caress this guy and the FYGM bullshit sprinkled throughout the article. I'm going to fantasize about a much, much "weaker" housing market than ever before seen.
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Jan 21, 2023 23:37
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But the market is stronger than it looks. And that will become apparent later this year and next.
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The immigration stuff is and always will be bullshit. It's never put into the context of our declining population via low birth rates and boomers starting to die by the bucketful. There are so many people out there who are completely hosed by rising rates. They maxed out their budget based on a 2% mortgage and we are so, so far beyond this now. They're hosed.
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Jan 21, 2023 23:49
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Segue posted:CBC has been running these title fraud stories for a couple weeks now, and this one seems to have the most detail of all, and unfortunately hits a lot of stereotypes. I do not know why, but after reading this article Google and Facebook ads are convinced I should try moving to Canada now.
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Jan 22, 2023 01:01
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RBC posted:The immigration stuff is and always will be bullshit. It's never put into the context of our declining population via low birth rates and boomers starting to die by the bucketful. Well this means almost our entire population growth requires housing now, not in 20 years. Also contra the baby boom when we had a massive construction program, we just aren't gonna bother. E: to be clear immigration isn't the problem it's our decision not to actually build the necesarry infrastructure that is the problem.
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Jan 22, 2023 01:06
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Even with all the boomers dying and our lack of natural growth, StatsCan still sees population growth as a giant up and to the right.quote:From 2016 to 2021, Canada's population grew at almost twice the pace of every other G7 country. While the pace of growth slowed in 2020 with the COVID-19 pandemic, it rose again in 2021 and, from January to March 2022, it was the highest of all first quarters since 1990. Will be real interesting to see what happens if Canada does slip into a real recession. I see that as the only real event that will induce some real severe price declines, but along with that will be a lot of very Big Problems so I suspect none of us will really be able to capitalize on such an event. Was chatting with my dad about the recession in the early 1980s. He had a variable rate mortgage at 12% (because surely it can only go down from here) which spiked to 24% lmao. He was effectively bankrupt but his uncle picked a convenient time to die and a massive inheritance bailed my Dad out of his looming financial problems.
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Jan 22, 2023 02:29
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COPE 27 posted:Well this means almost our entire population growth requires housing now, not in 20 years. Also contra the baby boom when we had a massive construction program, we just aren't gonna bother. It's very modest projected growth with an aging population. The growth rate is about the same as it's been here for decades. There's no surge like people are claiming. It's certainly nowhere near comparable to the baby boom. The composition is different in that it's more immigration than natural growth. That's it. We're the only country in the G7 that is trying to maintain our growth rate through immigration instead of watching it decline. Does this put pressure on housing? No more than it did in 1992 when our growth rate was double what it was this year. And housing was in a decade long lull. https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CAN/canada/population-growth-rate
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Jan 22, 2023 15:10
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RBC posted:The immigration stuff is and always will be bullshit. It's never put into the context of our declining population via low birth rates and boomers starting to die by the bucketful. I was thinking that it shouldn't be hitting quite yet except for variables since the prime rate didn't crater until Feb 2020. But, I suppose it's significantly higher now even for the people that got a 5-year fixed in 2018. Given that we're looking for a new house these, we've seen quite a number of listings pop up. And a good number of them feel like desperation sales.
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Jan 22, 2023 15:35
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Still waiting for the crash.
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Jan 22, 2023 18:07
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RBC posted:It's very modest projected growth with an aging population. The growth rate is about the same as it's been here for decades. There's no surge like people are claiming. It's certainly nowhere near comparable to the baby boom. The composition is different in that it's more immigration than natural growth. That's it. We're the only country in the G7 that is trying to maintain our growth rate through immigration instead of watching it decline. 90s might be an interesting time frame to watch as a comparable for the next bit going forward. Interest rates between 92-94 were between 5-6%, about the same as now. The big difference I see between then and now that I see was the casual ease in the 90s of creating more of that Canadian Dream™ SFH product. People just razed another forest at the margins and built more strip mall suburbs. It was enormously cheap and easy to create more housing of the sort that people really wanted. They were def doing tons of this when I was growing up. In contrast, these days there is there is dramatically less opportunity for that sort of thing. Using Metro Vancouver as an example, there's been limited few opportunities for this sort of green field development, limited pretty much to Surrey and Langley, and it is necessarily now more expensive townhome style development. IMO this has been a contributing cause driving what we've seen in the last few years of this significant outflow from Vancouver and Toronto out into other cities beyond the metro areas, as people seek that Canadian Dream™ of a SFH they can afford. quote:People are leaving Canada's biggest cities amid a housing crunch redbrouw posted:Still waiting for the crash. Quick glance but if home prices in Greater Vancouver plunge 37% the average home price will be back to what it was when this thread started.
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Jan 22, 2023 19:20
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That "drive till you qualify" was a thing is evidence that large municipalities repeatedly failed, over a period of decades, to build the housing their residents and prospective residents needed.
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Jan 22, 2023 19:34
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RBC posted:There are so many people out there who are completely hosed by rising rates. They maxed out their budget based on a 2% mortgage and we are so, so far beyond this now. They're hosed. redbrouw posted:Still waiting for the crash.
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Jan 22, 2023 21:13
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RBC posted:The immigration stuff is and always will be bullshit. It's never put into the context of our declining population via low birth rates and boomers starting to die by the bucketful. They were stress tested 
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Jan 22, 2023 23:54
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Purgatory Glory posted:They were stress tested Also, I know someone who is moving to Vancouver because "Toronto home prices are unaffordable". 
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Jan 23, 2023 02:37
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Rates are above the stress test rate for anyone that bought with mortgage of around 2% or lower. It was also only introduced in 2018.
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Jan 23, 2023 02:56
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Mr. Apollo posted:That's what I don't get. The stress testing criteria was well above the current interest rates, was it not? I can only assume that with this many people freaking out about mortgage rates that the amount of fraud on applications is massive. I'm sure some people outright fabricated their income, but I would think that a larger problem is that several things typically happen after people buy a home: they spend more money maintaining and/or improving that home than expected, their parents expect the "gifted" down payment to be repaid (or need the money back to pay down the HELOC it was borrowed from), and people have kids. All of these things are bad for cash flow, especially at elevated interest rates, and none of them are captured by the stress test. redbrouw posted:Still waiting for the crash. You're talking about the most illiquid asset class there is, and it's not like prices aren't still trending downward. 
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Jan 23, 2023 03:21
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tagesschau posted:I'm sure some people outright fabricated their income, but I would think that a larger problem is that several things typically happen after people buy a home: they spend more money maintaining and/or improving that home than expected, their parents expect the "gifted" down payment to be repaid (or need the money back to pay down the HELOC it was borrowed from), and people have kids. All of these things are bad for cash flow, especially at elevated interest rates, and none of them are captured by the stress test.
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Jan 23, 2023 05:07
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Mr. Apollo posted:That's what I don't get. The stress testing criteria was well above the current interest rates, was it not? I can only assume that with this many people freaking out about mortgage rates that the amount of fraud on applications is massive. Yeah, people just let life fill in the gaps if they have excess money. It doesn't help that for whatever reason lenders moved to a 39% gds number up from around 32% it used to be. Allowing people to dump more money into housing costs.
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Jan 23, 2023 05:37
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Mr. Apollo posted:I can only assume that with this many people freaking out about mortgage rates that the amount of fraud on applications is massive. Hoo buddy does CBC have you covered. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/organized-crime-groups-behind-gta-home-sales-mortgages-without-owners-knowledge-1.6719978 CBC News posted:CBC Toronto has learned that a handful of organized crime groups are behind these real-estate frauds — in which at least 30 homes in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) have either been sold or mortgaged without the real owners' knowledge... Now it's a private investigation firm alleging this, and not a lot of proof shown, but if CBC if certifying this, odds are it's a real thing. It basically puts paid to the common argument that our banks are doing thorough research and stress testing everyone to make sure everything is legitimate. Which is obvious given the insane bidding wars and buying frenzies that have characterized the market in the last years. My Favourite Obvious Fact posted:CBC Toronto reached out to Toronto police multiple times for comment, but no one was available to speak on its title fraud cases. Hopefully this breaks open the dam on these types of stories and we get more and more evidence of the silliness. Fun times to watch and pray for a crash.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:00
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Mr. Apollo posted:That's what I don't get. The stress testing criteria was well above the current interest rates, was it not? I can only assume that with this many people freaking out about mortgage rates that the amount of fraud on applications is massive. The rate my wife and I were stress tested at when we bought in early 2022 is the rate our mortgage actually is as of the last round of rate increases. Now we actually do have the income we reported so it’s crappy but definitely doable. That’s partly because we both used pessimistic income projections (hers can fluctuate 10-20k a year) and we refused to get a mortgage above a certain amount even if we qualified. With the increased cost of literally everything, I can definitely see someone who passed the stress test without fraud in 2021/early 2022 and got the biggest mortgage their GDS dictated now ending up with negative cashflow. I’m not advocating for a bailout or anything. I am advocating for tighter lending rules because if somebody can meet all the criteria and guidelines and get hosed anyway then the criteria and guidelines are useless. That of course benefits those who have the money to not worry about borrowing even more but it’s not like wealthy people or REITS are suffering currently.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:01
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Please tell me you didn't get a variable rate mortgage in early 2022. The writing was clearly on the wall regarding future rate hikes by then.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:16
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McGavin posted:Please tell me you didn't get a variable rate mortgage in early 2022. The writing was clearly on the wall regarding future rate hikes by then. I have to agree, rates were starting their climb end of 2021. I can't believe any competent mortgage broker would let a client take a variable at that time. Like lol, banks weren't offering 0.9% variables at the time because they were really nice, they know which way the wind is blowing. Also on the stress test note. Yeah, rates are now higher than what quite a few people stress-tested at in the last 5 years. Not to mention however many people there are that used private lenders that don't need to stress test.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:49
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Fidelitious posted:I have to agree, rates were starting their climb end of 2021. I can't believe any competent mortgage broker would let a client take a variable at that time. idiot reporting in, i got talked out of an uninsured sub 3.4% 10 year fixed (and indeed any fixed at all) with a bunch of hoopla about how they're quasi scams where you're paying nearly all interest for long time and rates don't go up very much or very fast  and hey, they were the expert (i even talked to 3 and turned down something blatantly worse, in retrospect should have gone with the one that didn't push anything at all), and i was some dipshit who didn't know anyone more informed and had to make a high pressure decision with massive consequences very quickly having a cool time paying 900 bucks more a month and counting since starting half a year ago. it's not a disaster, i saved 20 down and shot for comfortably within my means (read: across the street from a homeless shelter), but it sure sucks
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Jan 23, 2023 15:57
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Global news.had their gas refinery expert guy on who said proces this summer will likely exceed last years due to maintained required reducing capacity. That could prop up inflation, prolonging the rate hikes.
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Jan 23, 2023 17:36
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