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Yeah, I would not do this on the Rubicon trail. It'd be on forest service land next to a CA Sno-Park, or similar.
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Jan 16, 2023 16:46
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Yeah nah don't be an idiot. Snow season in the Sierras is incredibly unpredictable. E: When snow started falling in the Sierras there's a reason why I hosed off southward. Despite having a winch, lsd, 4wd, recovery gear, amateur radios, and enough supplies to last up to 6 weeks in the freezing. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jan 16, 2023 |
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Jan 16, 2023 18:16
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I think that encouraging fellow goons to do something that might result in their death is a bannable offense. Encouraging someone (ai goons in particular) to do something that might result in their financial ruin on the other hand is typically encouraged.
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Jan 16, 2023 20:50
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I wouldn't do what you're contemplating even with 4wd, dual lockers, a winch, radios, supplies, and 13 years off-road experience. In fact I specifically would not do it because of 13 years of off-road experience. At least bring a couple other goons with separate vehicles so you can either recover each other, or eat each other.
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Jan 16, 2023 23:35
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kastein posted:I wouldn't do what you're contemplating even with 4wd, dual lockers, a winch, radios, supplies, and 13 years off-road experience. Look. When Ken says its a bad idea maybe look inward for a moment and have a big think.
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Jan 16, 2023 23:40
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Holy poo poo, you guys. Above-zero-F winter camping (in a vehicle, no less!) isn't as much of a death wish as some of you think. Normal(-ish) people do it! You're inventing the dumbest scenario you can think of (lol Rubicon trail), then imagining I'm going to do that dumb thing, then getting all worked up about how dumb it would be.
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Jan 17, 2023 02:26
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I dunno mate, although it doesn't snow where I live so maybe I'm talking out my arse, but deliberately stranding yourself in the snow doesn't seem the safest or smartest choice you could make hey. Anything where the best case scenario is you get stuck for a day or few just doesn't seem to justify the risk of a worse outcome.
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Jan 17, 2023 02:47
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ili posted:I dunno mate, although it doesn't snow where I live so maybe I'm talking out my arse, but deliberately stranding yourself in the snow doesn't seem the safest or smartest choice you could make hey. Anything where the best case scenario is you get stuck for a day or few just doesn't seem to justify the risk of a worse outcome. Agreed. Seems like you could just go camping if you want to sleep in the snow. No need to intentionally bite off more than your vehicle can handle.
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Jan 17, 2023 02:52
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ryanrs posted:You're inventing the dumbest scenario you can think of (lol Rubicon trail), then imagining I'm going to do that dumb thing, then getting all worked up about how dumb it would be. Did you not just drive your van several hours home with totally shithoused steering?
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Jan 17, 2023 03:11
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ryanrs posted:You're inventing the dumbest scenario you can think of (lol Rubicon trail), then imagining I'm going to do that dumb thing, then getting all worked up about how dumb it would be. Both you and I break plenty of rules normally considered foolhardy. I've definitely done worse than your steering adventure in the past, though I wouldn't today. I've gone wheeling alone hundreds of times, and it has not ended poorly because I stick to areas I know, and am self reliant to a fault. But this intentionally getting snowed in thing is a bad idea, especially combined with going alone. I mean poo poo, I'm literally about to tow a moving trailer 3000 miles across 15 states with a 35 year old poo poo heap I basically built myself. In the dead of winter. Without a backup vehicle. This is also a very bad idea. But I'm not going to intentionally get myself snowed in off-road in it, I'll be sticking to major interstate routes and only even considering venturing off the beaten path where snow is not in the forecast.
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Jan 17, 2023 03:38
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Well here's one location I had in mind: off Mt Reba Rd. But it is at 7600 ft, and the altitude will kick my rear end if I have to shovel a ton of snow, so I'd be looking for a place a bit lower elevation. That road and parking lot is regularly plowed by Caltrans. It's might be impassibly snowed-in TODAY, but I expect it to be plowed in a day or two, if it hasn't already. You don't HAVE to abandon your car there all winter, you can just call AAA or whatever, if it comes down to it.
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Jan 17, 2023 04:09
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George Donner, 1846 posted:Holy poo poo, you guys. Above-zero-F winter camping (in a covered wagon, no less!) isn't as much of a death wish as some of you think. Normal(-ish) people do it!
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Jan 17, 2023 05:46
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hello I work at an remote alpine mine in northern British Columbia. It probably doesn't snow as much here in extremis as down there, it's inland. Can still do 50cm+ a day in a decent storm, drifts can be two or four or six times that in the space of an afternoon if you get wind blowing stuff off a dump wall or something. You should consider: - Do Not park for a long period of time in a snowstorm in a location that you do not know, with absolute certainty, will be plowed. Not 50m away from the parking lot that you think might be easy to get recovered from, not half a mile down the road, not at a site that might just be written off for a month because one of the trucks hit the ditch and some foreman waved everyone off it, not "oh they usually do this one it'll be fine", you're in the parking lot where you know that at 6am the next day the plow truck guy will be sitting on the horn and yelling at you to move your piece of poo poo van. Particularly, don't park anywhere that you don't understand well enough to say with certainty that you know where wind will be coming from, how local vegetation is going to affect it, how snow will move around the immediate vicinity etc. I can take a walk in places at work and go from bare ground to a 3m deep drift to 5cm of snowpack so hard you could run a train on it back to a 3m deep drift back to bare ground in the space of, like, 50m horizontally. Moving snow, I cannot emphasize this enough, sucks poo poo and depending on the circumstances (particularly, drifting & wind direction) it can be literally impossible to move snow as fast as necessary to recover or remobilize a vehicle without, like, a bulldozer, even granting that you have the stamina to work at it for potentially hours upon hours upon hours at a time. Trying to make yourself a road can be an absolute exercise in futility, you can at best rely on being able to get yourself out/off of one a drift and onto otherwise open ground using human power alone. I have been in situations where I've made it 29m through a 30m snowdrift, beached the frame, and had to spend two hours digging to move that one additional meter because it's not a quick job when you have to retreat into the cab for 20 minutes to give yourself 5 minutes warm enough to work. Highway pullout on the road to a ski resort that's going to do its own road maintenance? Sure, why not. Ski bums have been doing that for decades. Anything more complex than that and you're rolling the dice on having a reeeeeal bad time. - Do Not rely on any kind of commercial recovery service to remove your vehicle from a situation like that. They might. Depending on where you it may even be likely! But, also, they might say, hey, you're a loving idiot for going out there and we're not going to get your piece of poo poo van because it'd take us 12 hours just to get to you right now and we have a 72-hour long waiting list as it is, rear end in a top hat *click* The actual way you get recovered from those circumstances, at least here in BC, is that you find an obscure facebook page called '[area] j33p krew' or something along those lines, you make a 'help im trap' post (probably the next morning, after you yourself have been recovered to somewhere with an actual phone signal), then at some point in the next one to several days one to several people show up to do something on a continuum between shaking their heads and telling you you're hosed to spending one to several hours of multiple peoples' time extricating you. It's all fun and games until your beautiful first-time wilderness snowshoe adventure to look at the winter wonderland dumps you face-first into a tree well you couldn't see and you break something, and now, whoops, it's a week before you're going to see another person! Good luck! In closing, for your snow adventure desires I suggest one of these instead  
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Jan 17, 2023 07:27
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Pretty rad dad pad posted:
Or at least, like, a Delica or something Steve Jorbs posted:I'm interested even if you just drove a graded forest service road and saw a squirrel, or whatever the Australian equivalent is. Better late than never, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3YHWsXLzbw The video starts off on Plateau Rd in Jarvis Creek Plateau Regional Park.   I make a turn off onto what is normally intended to be a walking trail, named the Hillas Track. Plateau Rd has many of these trails which run off the road, named after the family that farmed that area originally. All the trails turn into peoples farms about halfway down the mountain, meaning it isn't possible to wheel all the way down them. A lot of the farms in the area are still held by the same families that created them originally. I descend about 3/4 of the way down Hillas track, before turning around in a kind of picnic area. I could have driven down to the fence line, but turning around down there is slightly sketch. Nothing hectic, but has some nice incline to justify turning on 4L at least. DPM fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 17, 2023 |
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Jan 17, 2023 12:03
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cursedshitbox posted:Look. When Ken says its a bad idea maybe look inward for a moment and have a big think. Both Kastein and CSB make some of the most questionable offroad decisions and have some of the most ridiculous offroad repairs i've ever seen. I would not discount this advise.
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Jan 17, 2023 14:18
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Thanks for the specific warning re. drifts, that makes sense. And if I'm 100 ft from the parking lot, there's also the likelihood that the plowman will dump all his snow between me and the parking lot, which would be bad.
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Jan 17, 2023 15:14
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Funny you say that... This picture is from March 2011 after an unexpectedly brutal winter. Several months earlier I personally hand dug the trench my Jeep is pictured in. I had to dig a 7ft wide trench through a 30 foot long, 8 foot deep (at the time) snowbank. Why? Because I'd parked my spare Jeep at the back of the abandoned lot behind it, and my other spare Jeep that I'd been daily driving broke, and the one in the picture wasn't road legal, and I needed to get to work tomorrow somehow. It took me hours to dig through that, and more hours to get the pictured Jeep through 3 feet of snow behind the snowbank so I could use it to drag the Jeep I wanted back out through the whole mess. I got the recovery Jeep stuck multiple times - on flat ground mind you, the snow was just piling up in front of me - and had to get out and shovel myself out. I maintained the trench through the snowbank the rest of the winter since I only had one parking space at my apartment. According to my measurements on Google maps it is a distance of under 500 feet and I would have been hosed from January-ish until approximately end of May if I had not been within walking distance of home and in possession of a second vehicle to drag the first one out with. And that's with two vehicles with 10in of ground clearance, factory 4x4. One on brand new 33in ATs. This whole experience was on the back of my mind when I wrote the last few posts but I forgot I had a picture till you mentioned getting plowed in. So yeah, your idea may have reminded me of some very unfun experiences  My driveway also is similar to this at the moment - about 200ft of mild uphill - and as little as 2 inches of snow has resulted in friends with FWD cars and more confidence than vehicle capability getting stuck there for 45 minutes. It took me 2 hours once in the same XJ, the same winter. 4wd and lockers in my MJ? As long as it's under 2 feet I just put it in gear and drive, but if it's past that, I park at the top until I've cleared it.
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Jan 18, 2023 02:28
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DumbparameciuM posted:Or at least, like, a Delica or something A Delica with tracks. 
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Jan 18, 2023 03:04
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I'd take one of these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdWbotaWHYc Bombardier Muskeg.
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Jan 18, 2023 03:15
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I thought yall were being melodramatic about winter camping till I went back and read they literally want to go camp in a blizzard loving what.ryanrs posted:Well here's one location I had in mind: off Mt Reba Rd. But it is at 7600 ft, and the altitude will kick my rear end if I have to shovel a ton of snow, so I'd be looking for a place a bit lower elevation. Actually if your doing at a sno park next to a resort its probably fine, I still wouldn't try and do it in a literal blizzard though, I've never been in a blizzard but I've been in some pretty serious snow storms and they are scary. Also don't assume you can run your car for warmth, worst case scenario you'll have to keep the exhaust clear and crack the windows so you don't suffocate. Mr. Crow fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 19, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 18:41
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ryanrs posted:Thanks for the specific warning re. drifts, that makes sense. And if I'm 100 ft from the parking lot, there's also the likelihood that the plowman will dump all his snow between me and the parking lot, which would be bad. I had to do some road clearance today to be able to leave work so in order to take my mind off the scratty little toolcat making its usual worrying noises I thought it'd be interesting to try and illustrate the problem. This is a bare road across a hillside. It's fairly windy today, but not very windy, above freezing (unusual ~ Oct-Mar), last snowfall (dusting) was three days ago, last really significant significant snowfall was at least a couple of weeks ago, total snowfall for the season has been light so far. So, this is almost a best case scenario (extreme cold is usually better, in that there tends to be very little wind and the snow stays lighter for longer)  This is a 24hr drift a bit further down. As in, this road was completely cleared 24 hours ago. This is reasonably soft powdery snow, not too difficult to move.  A bit further down the road, that's not so bad...  Ah! Well. Nevertheless, See how the stuff coming out of the blower is more of a jet than a c loud, now, even though the wind's a lot stronger here.  Hey, I was just in here 10 minutes ago...  At the edge of the road this one is about level with my head sitting here, a little lower than I would be in a pickup. This is not nice soft powdery snow, it's more like wet sand. It builds up like a dune and migrates like a dune once it's built up. Hitting this with the blower at about 10km/h gives you maybe half a meter of forward movement before you stop. Or, you can creep forward slowly eating away at about 1/20th of the width of the blower at most. If you'd parked here, or needed to get through this thing, you'd be digging all day.  Two hours later when I left for home getting through that drift (that is, over the previously-cleared-by-me part of the road) was just about possible, with a decent runup. If I hadn't been in there earlier I wouldn't have tried, because it's hard to judge how deep or cohesive the snow is and if you don't make it through, good news - you get to dig yourself out while standing inside an ice scouring machine. Obviously this is a bit extreme in some ways - tree cover helps a lot with this and you're not going to find many rock dumps in snowmobile parking lots. At the same time...don't assume that a road that's open this morning will still be open this evening, even if it hasn't snowed recently, don't expect snow to behave similarly from one area to the next, and don't park downwind of bare slopes.
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Jan 21, 2023 04:36
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Ok, ok. Yeah the latest storm was way too intense. This is more of a vague future idea I've thought about, not something I'm about to do this season. My other ill-advised Sierra idea is to eat a marmot. I think they'd taste ok, they're basically giant squirrels, right? But most of the info I see online doesn't go into recipes, just warns that they carry bubonic plague. So I'll file the snow storm idea with the marmots. Interesting in theory, but probably not worth trying to get a doxycycline script from my doctor just so I can discover that marmots taste nasty. In other minivan news, I am debating whether to replace my weak and busted OEM tie down points with billet recovery points.   The recovery point is sized to accept a 1/2" crosby shackle. That's a bit undersized, but so are the 2x M10 screws that attach it to the body. Going bigger crosses the threshold from bolt-on to actual fabrication, though I suppose I could do it. The two M10 screws are the attachment point for the towing kit (which I don't have).
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Jan 21, 2023 06:52
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Those are less recovery points and more tie downs for the ride over in a seacan. Turning it into a recovery point is a great way to tear the captive nuts and surrounding bits out of the unibody.
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Jan 21, 2023 17:11
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I'm kinda worried that if those 2 M10 bolts break, then a 1 pound block of steel flies off and maybe kills me. That's not great! Alloy shackle WLL: 1/2" 3.3t 5/8" 5t Pulling the shackle 90 deg sideways reduces WLL by 50% according to Crosby. The van weighs a little less than 3t fully loaded. Not sure how much sideways force that translates to. My come-along is rated 1.5t straight pull, 3t with a pulley. The handle is designed to fail if you try to grossly exceed this rating. I'm thinking I should redesign for a 5/8" shackle, and wrap the recovery point around the unibody frame rail. This will let me grab a 3rd M10 screw on the side of the frame and make the recovery point a lot stronger, esp for sideways and twisting forces. e: cursedshitbox posted:Those are less recovery points and more tie downs for the ride over in a seacan. Turning it into a recovery point is a great way to tear the captive nuts and surrounding bits out of the unibody. I know. But it's the strongest available attachment point without doing massive car surgery. e2: Price estimate for 2x 5/8" shackle recovery points, with frame wrap and 3 bolt attachment: Chinese CNC + US laser cutting + me welding for free = ~$600 for two recovery points, lol. This is not the "major car surgery" option, but it's a lot stronger than just the 2 bolts, in exchange for roughly double the design effort and manufacturing cost. ryanrs fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Jan 21, 2023 |
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Jan 21, 2023 17:18
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ryanrs posted:The two M10 screws are the attachment point for the towing kit (which I don't have). By towing kit, you mean trailer hitch? ryanrs posted:I'm kinda worried that if those 2 M10 bolts break, then a 1 pound block of steel flies off and maybe kills me. That's not great! Four bolts instead of three: https://www.etrailer.com/p-c13511.html?hhyear=2000&hhmake=Toyota&hhmodel=Sienna Then get this:https://www.amazon.ca/Manufacturing...624727907&psc=1
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Jan 21, 2023 20:14
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Yeah, the trailer hitch. Two bolts per side, so only 2 bolts holding in a recovery point unless I tie them together with a horizontal bar, like on a trailer hitch. I don't want to butcher an actual trailer hitch, because they place the horz bar below the bumper (so the trailer can connect). I guarantee something like that will get hung up on stuff 10x a day. If I made one from scratch, I could tuck the bar higher up behind the bumper. But at that point it might be better to fabricate an entirely new rear bumper, etc, etc. Nothing on the van is ideal, and if I set out to rebuilt/reinforce every weak point, I will end up replacing everything. I need to work out a plausible compromise. e: it looks like the etrailer hitch has an elevated horz bar. It would probably not affect clearance if I cut off the hitch part that sticks out and fabricated my own shackle points.
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Jan 21, 2023 20:27
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Why cut off the hitch? Just use it as the recovery point.
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Jan 21, 2023 20:40
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Got ya, makes sense about the hitch lowering the ground clearance and getting caught on poo poo. It just wasn't obvious (to me) at first, I was all like "why the poo poo doesn't he just get a fuckin trailer hitch? If you got that hitch and then welded another piece of square/rectangle on the back of the horizontal bar that would strengthen it a bit, and also give more to weld some shackle mounts to.
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Jan 21, 2023 20:44
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Third screw on the side of the frame rail, inboard side: I think trailer hitches don't try to grab this 3rd screw because they can't account for vehicle-to-vehicle variances in the frame rail spacing. Curt uses oval holes for the two bottom screws.
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Jan 21, 2023 21:08
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So it looks like you might be able to drill an extra hole in the hitch (if you got it) and get six bolts holing it on. Moar stronger !!
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Jan 21, 2023 21:12
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Right, but I would have to fabricate/modify the hitch to the extent that I'm basically fabricating it from scratch, because I'd need to lengthen the horizontal bar. On Curt hitches, the horz bar is intentionally undersized, I think to account for Toyota manufacturing variances, or crash repairs, etc.  I guess I could do something gross like shove washers in there to fill the gap, eww. e: Other design tradeoffs Instead of sizing the recovery point bore to the shackle screw pin, make the hole large enough to accept the bow of the shackle. This prevents side loading of the shackle and the attendant 50% WLL reduction. CNC favors a heavy, squat design, without long protrusions. Laser-cut plate construction makes it cheaper, not as cool-looking, makes the oversize hole more practical. I can get 1/4" plate bent to order online, but will need two layers of it. 3/8" plate is probably strong enough in a single layer, but I will either need to avoid bending, or take it to a local shop with a giant press. ryanrs fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jan 21, 2023 |
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Jan 21, 2023 21:42
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Don't gap fill with washers ffs.
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Jan 21, 2023 21:49
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Wouldn't work anyway, because the horz bar obstructs the 3rd screw. I don't think butchering a commercially available hitch is the way to go.
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Jan 21, 2023 22:04
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ryanrs posted:Lots of posts including If you're going to the trouble of making custom recovery points, get the hole large enough to accept a soft shackle and have it nicely radiused or chamfered. Less need to worry about directionality and less metal in your recovery setup to boot.
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Jan 22, 2023 03:37
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Good idea, but I will have to radius it by hand with a die grinder, which will kinda suck. I'm moving away from the CNC milling idea. It is too expensive as this thing has gotten physically larger. I'll post a laser-cut, bent version in a bit. e: something like this:   Two laser-cut pieces of 1/4" mild steel, one bent, then welded together. Estimated cost: $30/ea, about 1/10th the cost of cnc milling (because I am welding for free). Downsides: Taller recovery points are definitely going to hit plenty of rocks. I better pack a file with those soft shackles in case I need to clean up any burrs, heh. ryanrs fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 04:19
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Any particular reason to go with the Curt rather than Harbor Freight or another trailer hitch receiver D-ring shackle thing? e: the Haul Master guy is rated to 3 tons, the Curt is rated to 6.5 tons. So that's why. Safety Dance fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Jan 23, 2023 |
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Jan 23, 2023 20:48
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Safety Dance posted:Any particular reason to go with the Curt rather than Harbor Freight or another trailer hitch receiver D-ring shackle thing? That I guess. But it was just the first one I pulled up in Google
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Jan 24, 2023 00:03
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I’ve not wanted to post anything…but after a few years of consideration and having well over a dozen JDM campers…I just don’t think that’s the way I wanted to go for me and the kids. It would just not get enough use to justify the lost profit. I’ve been waiting months for it to get here, and still not at the house til Wednesday. But I’m really hoping this is the answer and everything I’ve built it up to be. Just got the load pic from my driver 
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Jan 24, 2023 00:24
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everdave posted:I’ve not wanted to post anything…but after a few years of consideration and having well over a dozen JDM campers…I just don’t think that’s the way I wanted to go for me and the kids. It would just not get enough use to justify the lost profit. Holy gently caress, is that a Blue Marlin?!
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Jan 24, 2023 01:44
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why did i do this same post twice? I'm losing my mind
Vampire Panties fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Feb 2, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 05:35
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