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The Aptera is the worst possible compromise between a motorcycle and a car, the battery is twice the size of that Energica motorcycle, poorly protected by a composite frame with almost no crash protection, low visibility but it won't have the extra training requirements for a motorcycle (or more likely it will in states that require such things, but it will be 100% unenforced, especially since only wealthy white people will drive them). But it also won't actually be produced, since they're begging for $50M and 12 months before they "start production" on the "launch edition".
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Jan 24, 2023 00:22
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They should just sell blueprints for the Aptera for $50 and you build it in your garage like a Rutan plane.
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Jan 24, 2023 00:43
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MrYenko posted:If they can actually meet the efficiency goals they’ve announced, the solar panels totally make sense. In the more-probable event that they can’t meet those goals, then I absolutely agree with you. It's not like I'm buying it (or any EV) but I find it interesting from a design and engineering point of view. Like what would happen if you started designing from scratch for efficiency rather than trying to make the normal ICE shape work. Jason just did a video on the EQXX so this would be even more like that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kY7BGGtDeY Elviscat posted:The Aptera is the worst possible compromise between a motorcycle and a car, the battery is twice the size of that Energica motorcycle, poorly protected by a composite frame with almost no crash protection, low visibility but it won't have the extra training requirements for a motorcycle (or more likely it will in states that require such things, but it will be 100% unenforced, especially since only wealthy white people will drive them). The small battery was the whole point I thought, as it won't need a 100kWh to get the same range as a normal EV. Dunno about safety, it could be pretty good but maybe not. Definitely wanna see some test crashes though. In the end it's a niche car of course, basically like the Smart but for America, where you don't optimize for size but for long-distance range.
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Jan 24, 2023 00:59
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Rusty posted:My Neighbor has an Arcimoto 3 wheel electric thing and he drives it all the time. they don't seem to have to wear helmets in Oregon. Arcimoto is going bankrupt, because for some reason* they never got enough sales to become sustainable. * I wonder if it could maybe have anything to do with trying to sell an expensive open-air vehicle as a daily driver for anywhere but South California and then repeatedly refusing to put doors on it, even as people kept mentioning they might be interested if only it was usable in non-ideal weather
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Jan 24, 2023 01:51
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Just get a Chang Li, it’s got doors and everything!
GlassEye-Boy fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 01:57
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mobby_6kl posted:Dunno about safety, it could be pretty good but maybe not. the safety performance cannot be good. it can be good for its size perhaps. but i doubt it.
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Jan 24, 2023 02:12
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Man a hummer EV could plow through 2 dozen of those things without even slowing down
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Jan 24, 2023 02:13
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Elviscat posted:The Aptera is the worst possible compromise between a motorcycle and a car, the battery is twice the size of that Energica motorcycle, poorly protected by a composite frame with almost no crash protection, low visibility but it won't have the extra training requirements for a motorcycle (or more likely it will in states that require such things, but it will be 100% unenforced, especially since only wealthy white people will drive them). Sure but it's still rad. We should probably stop making huge vehicles that people don't need and make smaller efficient vehicles instead. That of course isn't going to happen. Less vehicles by improving rail would probably be a good idea too. Anyway I got a recall for my bolt, I think that makes it the third one. First one battery, second one software issue or something, third one something about the seatbelt tensioner causing fire in some crashes Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 02:19
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Bone Crimes posted:Oof! Did they give you a loaner? Also, what happened then the fault was detected? Did it stop or go into limp mode? I've had an A4 sedan loaner lol. There was no error message, just a gradual reduction in range. Once it was sub 100mi I got suspicious and plugged in an OBD dongle - there was like a half volt difference between the min and max cell voltage.
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Jan 24, 2023 03:10
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Figured out our electricity rates today. Looks like $0.05 - 0.098 per kWh off peak to peak. So at peak it looks like the Bolt would be just over half the cost of something comparable to my Prius at $3 gas and significantly cheaper when I'd actually be charging it. Not bad and it would make up the difference in price between it and a Corolla Hybrid pretty fast.
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Jan 24, 2023 04:15
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Duck and Cover posted:Sure but it's still rad. We should probably stop making huge vehicles that people don't need and make smaller efficient vehicles instead. That of course isn't going to happen. Less vehicles by improving rail would probably be a good idea too. It's called a hatchback, you have one, it costs the same as Aptera says (lol) their entry model will for the same range, it has usable space, four wheels, the possibility of you and your passengers surviving a low speed collision, everything you could want! I'm not a fan of everyone in the US driving half tons as their daily for some horrible reason, and I'd love to see more public transit, but in the meantime the answer is small cars, not gussied up scooters.
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Jan 24, 2023 04:47
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Elviscat posted:It's called a hatchback, you have one, it costs the same as Aptera says (lol) their entry model will for the same range, it has usable space, four wheels, the possibility of you and your passengers surviving a low speed collision, everything you could want!
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Jan 24, 2023 05:06
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Elviscat posted:It's called a hatchback, you have one, it costs the same as Aptera says (lol) their entry model will for the same range, it has usable space, four wheels, the possibility of you and your passengers surviving a low speed collision, everything you could want! Gussy up scooter sounds neat. Shame about all the people who think they need a huge vehicle. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 07:11
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Yeah if I had any confidence that I wouldn't be turned into meat sauce by one of my fellow citizens, an electric scooter of some kind would serve 90% of my needs if it had a good cargo compartment. As it is I'm lucky to have a mostly safe bike commute route.
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Jan 24, 2023 07:17
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https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cnxmh9aBtTA/ Aptera is now promising 40-60kw DC charging on the launch edition. Seems sensibly plausible, minus the overshadowing issue of actually manufacturing vehicles.
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Jan 24, 2023 12:35
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fknlo posted:Figured out our electricity rates today. Looks like $0.05 - 0.098 per kWh off peak to peak. So at peak it looks like the Bolt would be just over half the cost of something comparable to my Prius at $3 gas and significantly cheaper when I'd actually be charging it. Not bad and it would make up the difference in price between it and a Corolla Hybrid pretty fast. Out of curiosity how/where did you go to calculate the rates? I went on this fools errand some time ago and came up mostly empty
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Jan 24, 2023 13:57
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drhankmccoyphd posted:Out of curiosity how/where did you go to calculate the rates? I went on this fools errand some time ago and came up mostly empty The bill, probably? You'll either have the price per kW or just divide cost by kWh consumed.
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Jan 24, 2023 14:21
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drhankmccoyphd posted:Out of curiosity how/where did you go to calculate the rates? I went on this fools errand some time ago and came up mostly empty Mine are on my power bill.
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Jan 24, 2023 14:22
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I don't know if there's something fancier that the OP is referring to but my bill is pretty cleanly divided in to Peak and Off-Peak usage and shows the distribution and transmission rate components right there.
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Jan 24, 2023 14:28
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I don't know if there's something fancier that the OP is referring to but my bill is pretty cleanly divided in to Peak and Off-Peak usage and shows the distribution and transmission rate components right there. Mine just shows the billing code for the usage that I have to look up separately and then naturally the documentation Dominion has doesn't actually contain that exact billing code. I spent an hour trying to figure it out once and gave up. They installed a smart meter a few months ago so hopefully I'll get access to time-of-use billing soon.
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Jan 24, 2023 14:31
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Tiny Timbs posted:Mine just shows the billing code for the usage that I have to look up separately and then naturally the documentation Dominion has doesn't actually contain that exact billing code. I spent an hour trying to figure it out once and gave up. They installed a smart meter a few months ago so hopefully I'll get access to time-of-use billing soon. Your electric company is the voting machine fraud guys?
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Jan 24, 2023 15:29
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Alpenglow posted:https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cnxmh9aBtTA/ Bullying works.
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Jan 24, 2023 15:33
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I guess the Aptera will be the first non-Tesla to charge via Supercharger in North America, then. Edit: I have a feeling Tesla won't be ready for Aptera to use Superchargers so new owners will have to buy CHAdeMO adapters in the interim.
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Jan 24, 2023 15:39
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SlowBloke posted:Bullying works. the fact that they just kind of change spec arbitrarily in like a day has strong vaporware vibes the thing seems cool and i hope it works out for them but ehhh
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Jan 24, 2023 15:41
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Stultus Maximus posted:Mine are on my power bill. It's this but my girlfriend pays the electric bill so I didn't have it readily available to look at. The Bolt is definitely looking better and better even without the tax credit. I'll have to stop by the local Chevy dealer on my way to/from work this week and talk to them. It's a rural dealer with super low stock of anything so we'll see how that goes.
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Jan 24, 2023 16:47
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fknlo posted:It's this but my girlfriend pays the electric bill so I didn't have it readily available to look at. The Bolt is definitely looking better and better even without the tax credit. I'll have to stop by the local Chevy dealer on my way to/from work this week and talk to them. It's a rural dealer with super low stock of anything so we'll see how that goes. The dealer should be able to custom order a Bolt from GM for you, if you don't mind waiting an indefinite period. I was told actual production time tends to be 10-14 weeks, but that's after the dealer gets an allocation (prioritized, but not guaranteed, for a custom order). And then transport time after that, which varies depending on where you live in relation to Michigan.
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Jan 24, 2023 16:56
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A PoliSci professor posted:We can either electrify the status quo to reach zero emissions, or the energy transition can be used as an opportunity to rethink our cities and the transportation sector so that it’s more environmentally and socially just, both in the US and globally. I mean, you're not wrong. And this lines up pretty well with this page of the thread. But I just don't see "rethinking our cities" happening any time soon. Maybe if we stopped subsidizing gigantic cars, that'd be a good first step. People clearly are afraid of the massive things flying around them, and want to feel protected. Even people in this thread. ... what if we subsidized smaller cars instead of bigger ones? Could that even happen, given the current political environment? Anyway, I would probably buy an Aptera if I was sure it existed. The changli is cool, but has a top speed of, what, about 23 miles per hour? My little town isn't built for things that wide and that slow. cruft fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jan 24, 2023 |
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Jan 24, 2023 16:59
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Tiny Timbs posted:Mine just shows the billing code for the usage that I have to look up separately and then naturally the documentation Dominion has doesn't actually contain that exact billing code. I spent an hour trying to figure it out once and gave up. They installed a smart meter a few months ago so hopefully I'll get access to time-of-use billing soon. This reminded me that it wasn't that long ago that smart meters didn't exist and the power bill was using made up numbers. Local power company measures by the hour and my power plan is based on electricity exchange pricing, so calculating the bill would require Excel. But at least I can be confident I'm paying for what I use. A danish friend bought a house last year and pays a gas bill 4 times a year based on an estimate. His first bill for a 2½ month period was for 396m^3 of gas. He had used 14m^3. Annoying to pay the gas bill of a four member family, the previous owners, as a single man household. He thinks his usage was less than the gas meter can accurately measure. This is what my electricity bill was yesterday. I'll just let computers do the calculation and hope they don't screw up.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:03
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Oh boy, $EMPLOYER just ordered a hydrogen fuel cell autobus. I wonder where they thing they're going to obtain the hydrogen in the middle of the New Mexican high desert. They're also doing a lot of other stuff I think will work better, like putting in bike paths, buying a fleet of e-bikes, installing electrical storage, and shifting to buying EVs. But the Hydrogen bus thing jumped out at me. What ever happened to that goon with the hydrogen car? I wonder how that's going?
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Jan 24, 2023 17:05
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Maybe they plan on storing excess solar energy using electrolysis?
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Jan 24, 2023 17:07
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Maybe they plan on storing excess solar energy using electrolysis? Maybe? I feel like that would have made the "key takeaways for transportation" bulleted list. It's a Department of Energy laboratory, many of us would get the significance.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:09
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Even then, it's still wasteful to consume a bunch of precious water in the middle of the desert to power a bus.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:10
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cruft posted:... what if we subsidized smaller cars instead of bigger ones? Could that even happen, given the current political environment? Just how much would we need to subsidize them if people are happily paying six figures for pick up trucks? Give ten grand for everyone who is willing to take a small car? Or just give a grand a month to everyone who doesn't use a large vehicle. Is it even possible to make public transportation good enough that large numbers will willingly give up their cars. I spent first 15 years of adulthood without owning a car and then I inherited an old one and then Covid quarantines gave the coup de grâce for public transportation. I use public if the car is in the shop or I plan to get drunk. I may switch back the day a driverless taxi opens the door when I walk out the front door. My parking spot is over twice the walking distance!
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Jan 24, 2023 17:17
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Nfcknblvbl posted:Even then, it's still wasteful to consume a bunch of precious water in the middle of the desert to power a bus. It's wasteful even if you ignore water. Okay, so hydrogen electrolysis is 70-82% efficient, and hydrogen fuel cells are 40-60% efficient. Let's take the best case here and say 82% and 60%, and we'll ignore any losses in converting the solar panel output into whatever the electrolysis machine wants. 1000mJ * 82% * 60% = 492mJ for solar-powered hydrogen fuel cell vehicles Now let's consider a battery. The lab already has things they're installing everywhere that consist of some solar panels hooked up to a battery, which is in turn hooked up to an L2 charger. A lithium battery is 80-95% efficient, and a DC-AC inverter is 85-90% efficient. Let's be super generous and assume the worst: 1000mJ * 80% * 80% = 640mJ for solar-powered BEVs The best case fuel cell is still only 77% the efficiency of the worst case battery EV.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:20
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cruft posted:Oh boy, $EMPLOYER just ordered a hydrogen fuel cell autobus. I wonder where they thing they're going to obtain the hydrogen in the middle of the New Mexican high desert. They posted in mid-December. As of that time, it wasn't going particularly well. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3932649&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=631#post528543017
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Jan 24, 2023 17:21
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cruft posted:It's wasteful even if you ignore water. The only way hydrogen becomes viable in the future is if electricity effectively becomes free so never.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:34
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or if the raw materials for batteries become scarce
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Jan 24, 2023 17:36
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I think we're good with materials to make batteries at a large scale, we won't even need lithium to make them. BYD's set to launch a sodium ion battery made by CATL car soon.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:47
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Nfcknblvbl posted:The only way hydrogen becomes viable in the future is if electricity effectively becomes free so never. Almost all commercial hydrogen is produced as a byproduct of natural gas extraction. It was always a scam by the petrochemical industry.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:56
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I've always felt that using lithium batteries in stationary applications is a waste, since you could use heavier or less space-efficient designs if you're not trying to fit it onto a chassis
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Jan 24, 2023 17:58
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