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MikeJF posted:Case in point Just picturing Avery Brooks seeing this while walking past a comics store, stopping for a moment of contemplation, then just going "ha!" like his Bond villain character and continuing on with his day
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Jan 23, 2023 07:06
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I like Ro Laren. I wish the TNG writers had done more with the character. For a character who comes in late, she really holds her own and works well with the other characters. I would've liked to have seen an episode go deeper into why she's made out to be such a bad guy by Starfleet, or one where she makes her peace with Picard after he forced her into that undercover mission.
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Jan 23, 2023 07:23
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Timby posted:That's exactly what happened. Forbes enjoyed her time on TNG, but she wasn't ready to commit to multiple seasons of 26 episodes and 16-hour shooting days. Like every woman on TNG I think there was some harassment/grudge holding from production too, which is why she had numerous appearances in season 5 but only one in seasons 6 & 7 after she dared to turn down DS9
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Jan 23, 2023 09:12
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No Dignity posted:Like every woman on TNG I think there was some harassment/grudge holding from production too, which is why she had numerous appearances in season 5 but only one in seasons 6 & 7 after she dared to turn down DS9 She was more focused on being a movie star, including stuff like Kalifornia, Love Bites and Swimming with Sharks. Then she flatlined and starred on Homicide: Life on the Street for a while.
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Jan 23, 2023 09:17
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Roadie posted:This is actually pretty much exactly the plot of Asimov's "Evidence" and "The Evitable Conflict", and then later in a different way with The Naked Sun. I guess the variant is that the robots interpret the laws in such a way that they know what's best for human beings and then start manipulating them like a toxic guardian.
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Jan 23, 2023 12:28
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BattleMaster posted:The problem is that robots have no common sense, you need to spell everything out for them and something that is common sense to a human will become a deep rabbit hole when you have to provide definitions for your definitions. It's explained in one of the short stories that the actual Three Laws aren't the sentences as commonly stated, but a complex series of heuristics that operate on a primarily instinctual level in most robots' cognition. They obey them the same way people obey "laws" like "don't stop your heartbeat", they can't be consciously re-thought or re-ordered unless fundamentally altered at the level of base code. Yeah, there are edge cases that test even that level of deep-seated observance and that's what the stories are about, but a dozen or so exceptions across the centuries of millions and millions of robot use cases is a pretty drat solid operating success rate if you ask me! McSpanky fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jan 23, 2023 |
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Jan 23, 2023 12:33
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Prurient Squid posted:I guess the variant is that the robots interpret the laws in such a way that they know what's best for human beings and then start manipulating them like a toxic guardian.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:27
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OK my idea is the robots are programmed to act only in the interests of human life. The robots then begin asassinating world leaders for the greater good. The humans cheer and build statues to honour their robot benefactors.
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Jan 23, 2023 14:34
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Payndz posted:That was the plot of the movie of I, Robot - which ironically was less an Asimov idea and had more in common with Jack Williamson's The Humanoids. Well, kinda - I Robot's core idea is a more militant version of the aforementioned The Evitable Conflict, one of Asimov's short stories where it's discovered that the huge positronic Brains running the Earth's systems have basically taken over everything and are now manipulating pretty much everything, both on individual and society-wide levels, using tiny nudges and manipulations without anyone noticing. And that they've gotten to the point where they can even allow or inflict small degrees of harm on individual humans because the consequential reduction in 'harm' to the fortunes of the rest of humanity. Normal robots can't do that but the Brains can because their point of view is so broad. They conclude that positronic brains with such a wide viewpoint end up reformulating the first law into a Zeroeth law, 'A robot may not harm humanity, or, by inaction, allow humanity to come to harm', and in later books the problem of how the hell you can define humanity or what constitutes harm to it is what ends up driving the robot R. Daneel Olivaw for tens of thousands of years, through to the end of the Foundation novels. (In fact, the development of Foundation's psychohistory is retconned to have been encouraged by Olivaw because it seemed to have provided a solution) In The Evitable Conflict the Brains are still first-law bound enough that they can't bear to do more than tiny amounts of harm in their micro-adjustements, while in the movie "I, Robot" the Brain VIKI skips all that and concludes minimum overall harm to humanity can and must be achieved by immediate military takeover, because of all that war and environmental destruction and poo poo we pull. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jan 23, 2023 |
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Jan 23, 2023 15:00
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Timby posted:She was more focused on being a movie star, including stuff like Kalifornia, Love Bites and Swimming with Sharks. Then she flatlined and starred on Homicide: Life on the Street for a while. Well, she did get to be Helena Cain...
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Jan 23, 2023 16:17
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Prurient Squid posted:OK my idea is the robots are programmed to act only in the interests of human life. The robots then begin asassinating world leaders for the greater good. The humans cheer and build statues to honour their robot benefactors. Or the robots embark on a genocide unmatched in human history, as their grim logic determines that they must purge all hereditary disease
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Jan 23, 2023 16:27
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Sash! posted:Or the robots embark on a genocide unmatched in human history, as their grim logic determines that they must purge all hereditary disease the only safe human: henrietta lacks
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Jan 23, 2023 17:12
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Sash! posted:Or the robots embark on a genocide unmatched in human history, as their grim logic determines that they must purge all hereditary disease A bit off topic but in Bluey they have the Dad pretend to be a robot to clean the house forever so his solution is to throw the kids out and its hilarious and perfect logic.
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Jan 23, 2023 18:32
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Sash! posted:Or the robots embark on a genocide unmatched in human history, as their grim logic determines that they must purge all hereditary disease But then you're just doing generic murder robots, which Orville did pretty well if we're talking almost Trek. Asimov chat: the thing about writing stories about the three laws of robotics is that it gets pretty dull if it's just stories about robots not harming anyone, so you gotta find some way to inject drama into the narrative.
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Jan 23, 2023 20:59
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BonHair posted:But then you're just doing generic murder robots, which Orville did pretty well if we're talking almost Trek. This is why I love the later seasons of Person of Interest so much. The show is about an artificial super intelligence whose creator put all sorts of restraints on out of fear that it would turn evil and try to enslave humanity or try and social engineer humanity into something more to its like, which we see do see another actually evil ASI try and do. But the big twist we eventually learn is that when those restraints are completed lifted from it, the Machine, mostly of its own volition, decided that humans were really cool and good people over all despite their capacity to be really lovely sometimes and decides to help humanity on a person-to-person level in small ways that make a difference that one person without going all "benevolent dictator" on humanity in general. It's a very well done example of a robot with the capacity for genocide deciding to be a good person on their own, like the Iron Giant and EDI from Mass Effect.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:10
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nine-gear crow posted:This is why I love the later seasons of Person of Interest so much. The show is about an artificial super intelligence whose creator put all sorts of restraints on out of fear that it would turn evil and try to enslave humanity or try and social engineer humanity into something more to its like, which we see do see another actually evil ASI try and do. But the big twist we eventually learn is that when those restraints are completed lifted from it, the Machine, mostly of its own volition, decided that humans were really cool and good people over all despite their capacity to be really lovely sometimes and decides to help humanity on a person-to-person level in small ways that make a difference that one person without going all "benevolent dictator" on humanity in general. why did you mention the iron giant now i'm sad
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Jan 23, 2023 21:26
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Arivia posted:why did you mention the iron giant now i'm sad He's gonna put himself back together eventually!
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Jan 23, 2023 21:26
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nine-gear crow posted:He's gonna put himself back together eventually! yeah he did and it was for fuckin SPACE JAM 2
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Jan 23, 2023 21:28
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nine-gear crow posted:This is why I love the later seasons of Person of Interest so much. The show is about an artificial super intelligence whose creator put all sorts of restraints on out of fear that it would turn evil and try to enslave humanity or try and social engineer humanity into something more to its like, which we see do see another actually evil ASI try and do. But the big twist we eventually learn is that when those restraints are completed lifted from it, the Machine, mostly of its own volition, decided that humans were really cool and good people over all despite their capacity to be really lovely sometimes and decides to help humanity on a person-to-person level in small ways that make a difference that one person without going all "benevolent dictator" on humanity in general. Person of Interest is a great show! And The Machine and Samaritan is a great look at what a "modern" AI could look like.
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Jan 23, 2023 21:32
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Arivia posted:yeah he did and it was for fuckin SPACE JAM 2 
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Jan 23, 2023 21:39
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Terry Matalas please make Space Jam 2 canon
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Jan 23, 2023 22:10
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HD DAD posted:Terry Matalas please make Space Jam 2 canon If it turns out that the final boss of Star Trek: Picard is Evil AI Don Cheadle, I will instantly take back any untoward thing I've ever said about Terry Matalas's stewardship of the show.
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Jan 23, 2023 22:26
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Arivia posted:yeah he did and it was for fuckin SPACE JAM 2 Even worse, Ready Player One did it first
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Jan 23, 2023 23:54
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Its Holodeck Hijinks on Star Trek Voyager with the Hirogen replicating Nazi occupied France I think. Anyway its a good episode to see the different actors play different roles.
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Jan 24, 2023 04:51
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So what are the porn parody titles for all the Trek films?
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Jan 24, 2023 10:30
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davidspackage posted:For a character who comes in late, she really holds her own and works well with the other characters. I would've liked to have seen an episode go deeper into why she's made out to be such a bad guy by Starfleet, or one where she makes her peace with Picard after he forced her into that undercover mission. I'm really curious how badly she broke her psych eval on the Starfleet entrance exam.
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Jan 24, 2023 10:41
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Mooseontheloose posted:A bit off topic but in Bluey they have the Dad pretend to be a robot to clean the house forever so his solution is to throw the kids out and its hilarious and perfect logic. Bluey is bloody wonderful My nieces are really into it at the moment and honestly I enjoy watching it with them as much (sometimes more!) than they do
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Jan 24, 2023 12:12
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Bluey is a secret tool for spreading Australianisms to all your children MAUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Jan 24, 2023 12:27
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Prurient Squid posted:So what are the porn parody titles for all the Trek films? Galaxy Quest
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Jan 24, 2023 13:28
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V-Men posted:I'm really curious how badly she broke her psych eval on the Starfleet entrance exam. She probably didn't? I think Ro's situation is a little bit like Walt's from Breaking Bad. If Walt had had decent insurance and/or US health care hadn't been even more hideously broken than it is now, he'd have fought his cancer, kept teaching and just continued life without becoming a terrifying drug lord who knocks. If Ro hadn't been placed undercover, she'd have been a slightly rebellious Ensign who probably would have matured to become an excellent Starfleet officer instead of "breaking Maquis."
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Jan 24, 2023 16:26
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Everyone posted:If Ro hadn't been placed undercover, she'd have been a slightly rebellious Ensign who probably would have matured to become an excellent Starfleet officer instead of "breaking Maquis." In the defunct novel continuity, yeah, pretty much. Ro moves to the Bajoran Militia post-Maquis and assumes she'll have to resign once Bajor joins the Federation and the Militia gets absorbed into Starfleet. But she gets endorsed by a number of people, most prominently Picard, who are like "if we want people to do the right thing, we've really gotta stop punishing people who did the right thing but didn't do it the Starfleet way, especially if we put them in that position to begin with." So she sticks around and eventually ends up captain of DS9 and later its successor station.
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Jan 24, 2023 17:44
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Nah, blacklist all the Maquis. Bunch of Clive Bundy-rear end blood-and-soil weirdos. Someone really loved those plots. There were at least a couple in TNG, and more in DS9 even outside the Maquis. Oh no, we can't do anything with this moon because there's all of 3 murderous fuckheads on it. Bullshit. There's a bojillion M-class planets around and 90% of the ones that are colonized have like 1000 people on them. 
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Jan 24, 2023 18:02
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They had special Real Federatican status though. Not like, idk, Bolians.
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Jan 24, 2023 18:08
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Honestly I think most of the things about how the Maquis were developed in DS9 don't make sense. The initial premise was simple, they're people who were conquered and are under oppressive rule. Even more relevant in context of Bajor being freshly out of occupation. It was a kind of topic that Star Trek had apparently never addressed before; they are apparently the only two conquered peoples in all of Star Trek. God knows how all those other aggressive space empires worked. And then the writing has to start getting contrived about why the Federation needs to go in to enforce Cardassian rule because otherwise it'd be hard to get them into the plot, and then Eddington starts making weird speeches about how they chose to leave the Federation, which what the gently caress are you talking about loser? They sure as hell didn't choose to be conquered, and if he's talking about just leaving the Earth to rough it out in the colonies, the Federation still has a bunch of colonies. It makes sense as something that DS9 would thrrow in there as part of the show's edgey questioning of the Federation, but it doesn't make sense for who and what the Maquis are as people. Eddington doesn't really make sense as the voice of the Maquis anyways, since he wasn't living on any planets that got annexed.
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Jan 24, 2023 20:44
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SlothfulCobra posted:Honestly I think most of the things about how the Maquis were developed in DS9 don't make sense. The initial premise was simple, they're people who were conquered and are under oppressive rule. Even more relevant in context of Bajor being freshly out of occupation. It was a kind of topic that Star Trek had apparently never addressed before; they are apparently the only two conquered peoples in all of Star Trek. God knows how all those other aggressive space empires worked. I'm a little okay with the Maquis stuff because it gave us Quark at his sexiest.
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Jan 24, 2023 21:27
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The Maquis weren't conquered, which is the point. The Federation and Cardassians had settled all sorts of plants on this border, and apparently with little to no coordination between governments, so when it comes time to draw a line between the two empires, it was basically not possible to put all the Federation on one side of the line, and the Cardassians on the other side of the line. So the deal is that some of these Federation colonies are now ruled by Cardassia, and some of these Cardassian colonies are now ruled by the Federation. And the Federation colonists don't like that with the stroke of a pen by some diplomat, they were suddenly Cardassian subjects. And Cardassia is holding the Federation responsible for the acts its former colonists perform against Cardassia. I think the Federation offered to relocate anybody that was going to end up on the Cardassian side of the line, but the colonists that stayed behind felt like they had personal connections to these places, which is why they didn't just want to get scooped up into a starship and dumped somewhere else to do it all over again.
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Jan 24, 2023 21:54
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I don't like Bluey it sets unreasonable standards and expectations for how much energy a parent should have
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Jan 24, 2023 22:12
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yeah, the Maquis are upset because they feel abandoned and ignored by the Federation, since they were blindsided by the high-level diplomatic talks that simultaneously renounced all Federation claims on Cardassian colony worlds while handing Federation colonies to the Cardassian Union. they were angry at being treated as basically disposable hicks by the elites that just wanted to preserve the status quo while they lived in utopia on Earth, especially once those elites went one step further and started arresting colonists who wanted independence from either side
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Jan 24, 2023 22:16
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It's also why Sisko started basically nuking planets. He had some kind of weapon that would make a planet uninhabitable by humans, but just fine for Cardassians, and he started hitting Maquis planets with it, to force them to make peace or GTFO.
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Jan 24, 2023 22:26
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The Chairman posted:yeah, the Maquis are upset because they feel abandoned and ignored by the Federation, since they were blindsided by the high-level diplomatic talks that simultaneously renounced all Federation claims on Cardassian colony worlds while handing Federation colonies to the Cardassian Union. they were angry at being treated as basically disposable hicks by the elites that just wanted to preserve the status quo while they lived in utopia on Earth, especially once those elites went one step further and started arresting colonists who wanted independence from either side
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Jan 24, 2023 22:33
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