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Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003

Gwaihir posted:

Nice, that owns. Looks like with the V10 update hitting last night that's a great tool back available to let everyone enjoy the back catalog of stuff.

e: There are also a lot of modules that vastly help out at doing ad hoc encounter building in Foundry fwiw. PF2e toolbench has tools for automatically generating NPCs based on the GM guide stat block suggestions, along with another tool to automatically scale existing NPCs up or down in level, adjusting every relevant stat in the process for you.

The most difficult thing overall is probably just getting used to the various UI quirks in terms of foundry's controls, but there's quite a good selection of youtube tutorial type stuff that helps out there.

Do you mean pf2e workbench? You mentioned it on the last page and I couldn't find it so I went looking again now and I'm wondering if you mean this?
https://foundryvtt.com/packages/xdy-pf2e-workbench

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Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf
Ah, yup. Toolbox was an older version and workbench incorporated lots of the features it had to continue development when Toolbox fell out of use.

Saxophone
Sep 19, 2006


Alright, so I have a definite uptick in Pathfinder interest. One of the things D&D 5e killed me with though is how sloggy combat would get and also there didn’t often seem to be interesting choices.

How is it in PF? I definitely enjoy being very narrative and rule of cool with combat, but sometimes D&D was just ‘I swing sword. Cool.’ Because it was the most ‘optimal’ damage dealing method.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Saxophone posted:

Alright, so I have a definite uptick in Pathfinder interest. One of the things D&D 5e killed me with though is how sloggy combat would get and also there didn’t often seem to be interesting choices.

How is it in PF? I definitely enjoy being very narrative and rule of cool with combat, but sometimes D&D was just ‘I swing sword. Cool.’ Because it was the most ‘optimal’ damage dealing method.

There is definitely a much greater variety of options and tools in combat for PF2 characters - especially martial ones. Skill actions like Demoralize/Intimidate, Recall Knowledge, in-combat healing via the Medicine skill, maneuvers like grapple/trip/shove all feel a lot better and can actually be built around as the center of a play style.

The catch to this us that pathfinder as a system expects you to do some amount of investment in the things you want to be good at - if you don’t substantially invest in Athletics, trying to get creative and trip that ogre is going to go spectacularly poorly. This means that if you aren’t thinking, at character creation about the things you want to do besides hit the monster with your sword, you can very quickly get into a straight jacket where “hit the monster with your sword” becomes the only good option.

Put another way, there are more mechanical options, but the system expects you to actually use those options and build for them, and as a result, it can feel worse if you want to get a little more improvisational/rule of cool about things.

The other thing that helps a lot with making combat feel more dynamic is the significantly reduced prominence of attacks of opportunity. It promotes a much more mobile, skirmishing combat style that feels a lot more dynamic even if all anyone does is move and attack…. BUT this requires players getting out of a previous edition/D&D centric mindset where movement is punished, and actually deciding to move away rather than stand still and attack a third time at -10.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you
Is there proper foundry support for the redone Kingmaker?

Arrrthritis
May 31, 2007

I don't care if you're a star, the moon, or the whole damn sky, you need to come back down to earth and remember where you came from

MonsterEnvy posted:

Is there proper foundry support for the redone Kingmaker?

In the works by the foundry staff, at the moment.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf

Saxophone posted:

Alright, so I have a definite uptick in Pathfinder interest. One of the things D&D 5e killed me with though is how sloggy combat would get and also there didn’t often seem to be interesting choices.

How is it in PF? I definitely enjoy being very narrative and rule of cool with combat, but sometimes D&D was just ‘I swing sword. Cool.’ Because it was the most ‘optimal’ damage dealing method.

To add to what Chevy Slyme mentioned, depending on how much your players are in to it, there's a lot of potential for tactics in terms of building synergized characters. You can adjust builds around what other people are doing to take advantage of it pretty well-If one player is consistently demoralizing or casting fear on enemies, then you as a Rogue probably want to take the feat that makes any frightened enemy flat footed to your attacks, to give you an easier time hitting and enabling your sneak attack damage.

Even as the most basic fighter, from level 3 on ish you're virtually never just going to spend an action on making a basic attack, because there's enough other options that are quite useful.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Arrrthritis posted:

In the works by the foundry staff, at the moment.

Cool, I just got it yesterday, and was thinking it looked really cool to run. (Though very complicated with the kingdom building and hex map, which is why I think Foundry would help a ton in running it.)

Oh as someone getting used to Foundry and PF 2e, what are some recommended modules. I once played in a game that used one that tracked movement well, but I don't know what it was called.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 23, 2023

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

MonsterEnvy posted:

Cool, I just got it yesterday, and was thinking it looked really cool to run. (Though very complicated with the kingdom building and hex map, which is why I think Foundry would help a ton in running it.)

Oh as someone getting used to Foundry and PF 2e, what are some recommended modules. I once played in a game that used one that tracked movement well, but I don't know what it was called.



The 4 in the red box are the ones I view as mandatory. Some of the non library and other modules are needed as dependencies, I'm not sure off the top of my head about the requirements for these, but it should handle it automatically when downloading something with a dependency.

Dice So Nice add 3d dice that roll.
Dice Tray adds the ability to just click a die and roll it from the chat without having to go into a menu or /roll
Drag Ruler and pf2e Drag Ruler integration is the thing that tracks movement.

Monks Little Details does a bunch of cool poo poo It's probably also mandatory for me but yeah.
https://foundryvtt.com/packages/monks-little-details

PF2e Giveth, adds the ability for players to trade between themselves.

PF2e Staves automatically handles adding the staff to the character sheet when you drag one to a character in a smoother way than default

PF2e Target damage makes it easier to apply damage to targets by adding a button to damage rolls to hit to apply damage to the target without having to go and do it manually.


Any other questions let me know.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006
I refuse to play any game on Foundry without https://foundryvtt.com/packages/quick-insert

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Dexo posted:



The 4 in the red box are the ones I view as mandatory. Some of the non library and other modules are needed as dependencies, I'm not sure off the top of my head about the requirements for these, but it should handle it automatically when downloading something with a dependency.

Dice So Nice add 3d dice that roll.
Dice Tray adds the ability to just click a die and roll it from the chat without having to go into a menu or /roll
Drag Ruler and pf2e Drag Ruler integration is the thing that tracks movement.

Monks Little Details does a bunch of cool poo poo It's probably also mandatory for me but yeah.
https://foundryvtt.com/packages/monks-little-details

PF2e Giveth, adds the ability for players to trade between themselves.

PF2e Staves automatically handles adding the staff to the character sheet when you drag one to a character in a smoother way than default

PF2e Target damage makes it easier to apply damage to targets by adding a button to damage rolls to hit to apply damage to the target without having to go and do it manually.


Any other questions let me know.

Thanks a ton for this. PF 2 is still something I am getting used to.

Megazver posted:

I refuse to play any game on Foundry without https://foundryvtt.com/packages/quick-insert

This looks useful as well.

Base Emitter
Apr 1, 2012

?
How does Foundry support work (or does it) for current adventure paths? Is there any support available when the first issue of a path is available, or is it something that's available later whenever nerds get to it?

(I have a group that's leaning towards starting Gatewalkers, in the not too distance future, we're already using Foundry for games, and I'm pretty lazy.)

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.

Base Emitter posted:

How does Foundry support work (or does it) for current adventure paths? Is there any support available when the first issue of a path is available, or is it something that's available later whenever nerds get to it?

(I have a group that's leaning towards starting Gatewalkers, in the not too distance future, we're already using Foundry for games, and I'm pretty lazy.)

The New stuff typically is available day of. It's been delayed a day or two before, but yeah can probably keep up to date with it.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
The thing I don't like about the Pathfinder 2 PDF Import is that it's heavily scripted for specific PDFs. I really wish they had a general scripting way to give people your adventure for Foundry. I'm putzing around with my own 3rd party adventure and I would love to just stick it in some PDF in a certain way and let the importer do the heavy lifting.

Kwolok
Jan 4, 2022
Hello pathfinder thread. Following the drama that has become the future of dnd 5e, I am looking for alternatives. I am hardly a seasoned TTRPG guy, but I have hosted a handful of 5e games and played in even more. I do really enjoy it, largely for the free-form aspects and hte "make poo poo up on the fly as the DM" mindset that allows for some good imrpov and quality campaigns.

I have heard a ton of opposing opinions on pathfinder. That is has more freedom, that is has more rules, that is has more freedom because it has more rules. I am not really sure what to expect, and reading the 640 page manual seems daunting. So I guess my question is, for someone who is often times bad and gets confused as to how DnD wants me to do things so we just kind of wing it, is pathfinder a good framework for that style of play? Is it worse? Is it more confusing then DnD's already confusing ruleset?

Oh and before anyone asks, yes I am pretty dumb and bad at reading.

DemonMage
Oct 14, 2004



What happens in the course of duty is up to you...
The rules are generally clearer because of the consistency of the tagging system and being revised from the ground up with an aim for more clarity -- though they're of course not perfect. It is really easy to improv if you keep a cheat sheet of the numbers from https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=554 and the creature stat tables by level from https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=995.

Toshimo
Aug 23, 2012

He's outta line...

But he's right!

Saxophone posted:

Alright, so I have a definite uptick in Pathfinder interest. One of the things D&D 5e killed me with though is how sloggy combat would get and also there didn’t often seem to be interesting choices.

How is it in PF? I definitely enjoy being very narrative and rule of cool with combat, but sometimes D&D was just ‘I swing sword. Cool.’ Because it was the most ‘optimal’ damage dealing method.

Kwolok posted:

Hello pathfinder thread. Following the drama that has become the future of dnd 5e, I am looking for alternatives. I am hardly a seasoned TTRPG guy, but I have hosted a handful of 5e games and played in even more. I do really enjoy it, largely for the free-form aspects and hte "make poo poo up on the fly as the DM" mindset that allows for some good imrpov and quality campaigns.

I have heard a ton of opposing opinions on pathfinder. That is has more freedom, that is has more rules, that is has more freedom because it has more rules. I am not really sure what to expect, and reading the 640 page manual seems daunting. So I guess my question is, for someone who is often times bad and gets confused as to how DnD wants me to do things so we just kind of wing it, is pathfinder a good framework for that style of play? Is it worse? Is it more confusing then DnD's already confusing ruleset?

Oh and before anyone asks, yes I am pretty dumb and bad at reading.

If you have not read them, I highly suggest checking out these posts for a general overview of the system, and a sample combat, to get an idea of what you can expect:

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

Kwolok posted:

Hello pathfinder thread. Following the drama that has become the future of dnd 5e, I am looking for alternatives. I am hardly a seasoned TTRPG guy, but I have hosted a handful of 5e games and played in even more. I do really enjoy it, largely for the free-form aspects and hte "make poo poo up on the fly as the DM" mindset that allows for some good imrpov and quality campaigns.

It sounds like you might want to look at OSR games. Try Worlds Without Number, the basic rulebook is free to download.

quote:

I have heard a ton of opposing opinions on pathfinder. That is has more freedom, that is has more rules, that is has more freedom because it has more rules. I am not really sure what to expect, and reading the 640 page manual seems daunting. So I guess my question is, for someone who is often times bad and gets confused as to how DnD wants me to do things so we just kind of wing it, is pathfinder a good framework for that style of play? Is it worse? Is it more confusing then DnD's already confusing ruleset?

Oh and before anyone asks, yes I am pretty dumb and bad at reading.

It's notably crunchier that 5e and there is a rule for everything someone might want to do. The rules are usually functional enough, but the expectation is that you *will* remember and use all of procedures instead of just eyeballing it. Some people will find the fact that there is this kind of structure convenient and comforting, some people will chafe at it.

Amp
Sep 10, 2010

:11tea::bubblewoop::agesilaus::megaman::yoshi::squawk::supaburn::iit::spooky::axe::honked::shroom::smugdog::sg::pkmnwhy::parrot::screamy::tubular::corsair::sanix::yeeclaw::hayter::flip::redflag:

Arrrthritis posted:

In the works by the foundry staff, at the moment.

Specifically they have said "you will be pleasantly surprised by how soon this comes out" or something to that effect.

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004

Kwolok posted:

I have heard a ton of opposing opinions on pathfinder. That is has more freedom, that is has more rules, that is has more freedom because it has more rules. I am not really sure what to expect, and reading the 640 page manual seems daunting. So I guess my question is, for someone who is often times bad and gets confused as to how DnD wants me to do things so we just kind of wing it, is pathfinder a good framework for that style of play? Is it worse? Is it more confusing then DnD's already confusing ruleset?

"more freedom because more rules" makes sense to me. 5e Combat was vague and "kite and or/hit" seemed to be the only options. Having only played a little of it, I tried googling rules on Intimidating enemies in combat and found this discussion where a GM was concerned that his player spamming it was too powerful and respondents weren't sure it's even valid to do. https://dungeonmasterblock.freeforums.net/thread/2382/intimidate-combat. Sometimes people prefer to have some of these rules set in advance, and pathfinder has lots. Its specifies which scores are hurt and by how much when you are knocked over, smell a skunk monster, or are reduced to a quivering puddle by a critical hit from a Fear spell.

Pathfinder combat is way more interesting than 5e combat. There's a lot of stuff players can do to synergize and teamwork can be useful or even mandatory depending on encounter tuning. Instead of a "move action" and "real action", you have 3 actions and Multiple Attack Penalty. MAP does what it says on the tin, subsequent attacks in a round are less likely to hit. But you can always go for a third attempt to punch the dragon. Some classes get ways to reduce MAP. Some classes get powerful abilities using multiple actions. Many spells take all three actions to cast. There are many boring but efficient martial powers like "two attacks for one action, MAP doesn't increase until after both attacks" or "two moves and one attack for two actions."

There's the rogue, who gets bonus damage against flat-footed enemies. Flatfooted means easier to hit, with a -2 AC. Characters can be flatfooted against a specific character (such as a hidden rogue), attack, or everything. Grappling, tripping or knocking down to render the enemy prone, and flanking are someways flatfoot. So rogues do best if there's a fighter getting in the enemy's face (so to speak, there's not a directional facing system) on the other side.

Then the Advanced Players Guide came out and introduced the swashbuckler. Instead of getting the bonus damage he needs from being sneaky, he gets it from being SHOWY. Swashbucker can activate a buff called panache which gives him move speed, a small damage bonus, a little something extra at higher levels, and lets him use powerful finisher attacks which consume the buff. Swashbuckler gains panache by moving through an enemy space with a successful dexterity check, or applying one of the four styles. Gymnasts get panache by being buff and doing buff guy things (grapple, trip, shove). Wit distract enemies with cruel insults, leaving them vulnerable to further mental/emotional manipulation by warlocks or whoever. Braggarts demoralize foes, while fencers try to use feints or distractions to make them flatfooted.

Then there's feats. You get a lot of feats and ways to spend them. There are way too many archetypes and archetype feats, it's awesome. There's a lot of rules for cool extra things your character can do. There's a vigilante archetype that gives various batman bonuses like a secret identity or a surprise attack that you can upgrade with additional feats to demoralize or even stun other enemies nearby.

There are rules for jugglers , magic throwing cards, and being the guy who hits people with chairs, rocks, whatever is at hand. This lets you have cool poo poo going on that is already balanced, instead of the GM having to figure out fair numbers.

Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 24, 2023

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

Kwolok posted:

Hello pathfinder thread. Following the drama that has become the future of dnd 5e, I am looking for alternatives. I am hardly a seasoned TTRPG guy, but I have hosted a handful of 5e games and played in even more. I do really enjoy it, largely for the free-form aspects and hte "make poo poo up on the fly as the DM" mindset that allows for some good imrpov and quality campaigns.

I have heard a ton of opposing opinions on pathfinder. That is has more freedom, that is has more rules, that is has more freedom because it has more rules. I am not really sure what to expect, and reading the 640 page manual seems daunting. So I guess my question is, for someone who is often times bad and gets confused as to how DnD wants me to do things so we just kind of wing it, is pathfinder a good framework for that style of play? Is it worse? Is it more confusing then DnD's already confusing ruleset?

Oh and before anyone asks, yes I am pretty dumb and bad at reading.

Pathfinder 2e has a pretty solid combat engine, but if you are interested in a game that doesn't put combat front and center you probably want to consider other RPGs. There are a LOT of rules in pathfinder 2e dedicated to limiting the extent to which you can improv or combine things for weird emergent effects.

For examples, here is a spell and the full effects of one of the tags that apply to summoned creatures.

quote:

Floating Disk
Spell 1
Conjuration Force
Source Core Rulebook pg. 339 4.0
Traditions arcane, occult
Deities Casandalee, Horus
Cast somatic, verbal
Duration 8 hours
A disk of magical force materializes adjacent to you. This disk is 2 feet in diameter and follows 5 feet behind you, floating just above the ground. It holds up to 5 Bulk of objects (though they must be able to fit and balance on its surface). Any objects atop the disk fall to the ground when the spell ends.

The spell ends if a creature tries to ride atop the disk, if the disk is overloaded, if anyone tries to lift or force the disk higher above the ground, or if you move more than 30 feet away from the disk.

quote:

Summoned
Source Core Rulebook pg. 637 4.0
A creature called by a spell or effect gains the summoned trait. A summoned creature can't summon other creatures, create things of value, or cast spells that require a cost. It has the minion trait. If it tries to Cast a Spell of equal or higher level than the spell that summoned it, it overpowers the summoning magic, causing its own spell to fail and the summon spell to end. Otherwise, the summoned creature uses the standard abilities for a creature of its kind. It generally attacks your enemies to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with it, you can attempt to command it, but the GM determines the degree to which it follows your commands.

Immediately when you finish Casting the Spell, the summoned creature uses its 2 actions for that turn. A spawn or other creature generated from a summoned creature returns to its unaltered state (usually a corpse in the case of spawn) once the summoned creature is gone. If it's unclear what this state would be, the GM decides. Summoned creatures can be banished by various spells and effects. They are automatically banished if reduced to 0 Hit Points or if the spell that called them ends.

If you find all the hidden gotchas in these quotes vexing, I recommend looking elsewhere. If you see them as acceptable sacrifices for a game that will give you a more consistent tactical combat experience, PF2 is less likely to go off the rails that PF1 or D&D 5e.

Cool Dad
Jun 15, 2007

It is always Friday night, motherfuckers

I've been playing a level 6 cloistered cleric in an Agents of Edgewatch game and I'm feeling kind of underwhelmed. The other two player characters are a barbarian and a fighter, so I'm magic support guy. The thing is in combat, I don't feel like the spells I'm using are particularly useful. Magic Weapon was great but now everyone has striking runes. I feel like most of my combat spells bounce off everything we fight, and my support spells are either highly situational or kind of insignificant. My heals are amazing, but casting one useful spell once every combat or two is kind of dull. What cleric spells should I be looking at if I want to be generally effective in combat, either through direct attacks and debuffs or through buffing and enhancing the party? Are there some feats or something I'm overlooking?

avoraciopoctules
Oct 22, 2012

What is this kid's DEAL?!

Cool Dad posted:

I've been playing a level 6 cloistered cleric in an Agents of Edgewatch game and I'm feeling kind of underwhelmed. The other two player characters are a barbarian and a fighter, so I'm magic support guy. The thing is in combat, I don't feel like the spells I'm using are particularly useful. Magic Weapon was great but now everyone has striking runes. I feel like most of my combat spells bounce off everything we fight, and my support spells are either highly situational or kind of insignificant. My heals are amazing, but casting one useful spell once every combat or two is kind of dull. What cleric spells should I be looking at if I want to be generally effective in combat, either through direct attacks and debuffs or through buffing and enhancing the party? Are there some feats or something I'm overlooking?

Here are some guides: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c9guCpXO5TvH4CTEEQfYe97IT8uC-LpSCGb9_1XWWB8/edit
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pHfacYsilZ8zGYsbBAHI6afErUdwYqMLUt37CMsyvNs/edit

Apparently Calm Emotions is pretty good.

I also see callouts for Circle of Protection, and Heroism as good level 3 buffs. Little +1s are a big deal in PF2.

Autodrop Monteur
Nov 14, 2011

't zou verboden moeten worden!
I played a Kobold Oracle myself in and my party got a lot of mileage out of Fear heightened to level 3. It targets up to 5 creatures which is fantastic in bigger fights!
Calm emotions is really good too for debuffing and can help with non-combat situations.
If you want buffs, Heroism is always good, paired with the aforementioned fear, you're giving your party an effective +2 to hit on most opponents.
As for blasting spells, they work generally best against larger groups of opponents. I really liked Inner Radiance Torrent. It's a good line blasting spell which heightens really well!
If you are okay with necromantic spells, Rouse Skeletons is great. You're moving an angry skeleton ball around to battlefield for a minute.
And finally against big monsters, Roaring Applause helps by getting rid of their reactions, giving your party room to move around.

Many ancestries also allow you to get cantrips from other spell traditions. I managed to snag Electric Arc thanks to being a Kobold. That might also be a good way to get a nice cantrip.
I prefer the ones that force a saving throw since they'll still do damage even when the opponent succeeds at a normal save.

Autodrop Monteur fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jan 24, 2023

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today

Cool Dad posted:

I've been playing a level 6 cloistered cleric in an Agents of Edgewatch game and I'm feeling kind of underwhelmed. The other two player characters are a barbarian and a fighter, so I'm magic support guy. The thing is in combat, I don't feel like the spells I'm using are particularly useful. Magic Weapon was great but now everyone has striking runes. I feel like most of my combat spells bounce off everything we fight, and my support spells are either highly situational or kind of insignificant. My heals are amazing, but casting one useful spell once every combat or two is kind of dull. What cleric spells should I be looking at if I want to be generally effective in combat, either through direct attacks and debuffs or through buffing and enhancing the party? Are there some feats or something I'm overlooking?

Cast Down is a solid way to make your amazing heals more fun against undead, especially if you have anyone with opp attacks (Barb and Fighter?). Radiant Infusion also is a cool way to make your heals even better.

You could consider Champion dedication if you want to get in the thick of things, or Wizard/Witch dedication to cast better vs.save spells, or maybe Alchemist dedication to have some buffs that come from items freeing up combat actions, and possibly throw some bombs if you start by giving yourself a Quicksilver

e: Sorcerer dedication may be fun too, like Imperial or Elemental
e2: With only 3 players you should convince your GM to give your campaign the free archetype variant :gerty:

Syrinxx fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 24, 2023

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

Cool Dad posted:

I've been playing a level 6 cloistered cleric in an Agents of Edgewatch game and I'm feeling kind of underwhelmed. The other two player characters are a barbarian and a fighter, so I'm magic support guy. The thing is in combat, I don't feel like the spells I'm using are particularly useful. Magic Weapon was great but now everyone has striking runes. I feel like most of my combat spells bounce off everything we fight, and my support spells are either highly situational or kind of insignificant. My heals are amazing, but casting one useful spell once every combat or two is kind of dull. What cleric spells should I be looking at if I want to be generally effective in combat, either through direct attacks and debuffs or through buffing and enhancing the party? Are there some feats or something I'm overlooking?

I'll be honest, any time you aren't casting heal as a cleric just isn't going to feel great compared to casting heal, which is probably the best spell in the game. That said, what you want to do as you level up is find good utility spells that depend on DCs and swap those into lower level slots, and use direct damage (or just heal...) in your highest level slots. So now that you're 6 your level 1 and 2 slots should be utility, level 1 with fear/command, level 2 has things like calm emotion, faerie fire, restoration(though you probably get this from a staff of healing pretty soon), maybe comprehend languages if your campaign leans that way. Level 3 would be something like 1 heal, a heroism, and a fear, then as you continue to level you drop the heal and maybe 2xfear/heroism, if you fight undead/demons take a searing light. With 4-5 max level heals you should be able to cast it pretty frequently depending on how long your typical adventuring day is.

Casters in pf2e can feel kind of lame until you're pretty high level and have a lot of spell slots, especially for clerics because your cantrips are not good, and you aren't a charisma based caster so getting innate cantrips is not as good, and it's hard to find a good domain spell to use your focus points. Another option is to convert to Sarenrae so you can cast fireball, that feels pretty good at level 6 usually and it's not terrible heightened for pretty much forever.

I think clerics suffer from the same problem as bards: they're very good, but can feel boring to play.

Megazver
Jan 13, 2006

M. Night Skymall posted:

I think clerics suffer from the same problem as bards: they're very good, but can feel boring to play.

The one time I GM'd a PF2 game with a cleric, it was pretty sad watching them, tbh. You have to really love being nothing but a healbot.

Mechayahiko
May 27, 2011

Doctor Rope
The caster version of the cleric seems the closest to a trap choice. War Priest is much more fun.

M. Night Skymall
Mar 22, 2012

Mechayahiko posted:

The caster version of the cleric seems the closest to a trap choice. War Priest is much more fun.

Kind of depends, you can do what a war priest does better as a cloistered cleric with archetypes, because you can archetype/feat your way into armor and weapons, but you can't do anything to fix your spell DC. Of course you can just commit to only ever casting buffs/heal so your spell DCs don't matter, but level 3 fear is really good, and there are other good spells sprinkled in the divine list. I still cast fear all the time as a druid up to level 18 when he retired, and my whole build revolved around shapeshifting, but I'd still cast fear and then shapeshift on fights with a lot of enemies or in fights where the room was too small to shapeshift since apparently high level shapeshifts have to be gigantic.

It does work much better if you have free archetype though, but all the campaigns I play in or DM use it now because it's more fun.

Cool Dad
Jun 15, 2007

It is always Friday night, motherfuckers

I actually did archetype into Sorcerer so I could get Electric Arc and Scatter Scree, so I could do some damage. I also just picked up a greater Staff of Fire which I expect will help.

My specific build is a melixie sprite Cleric of Nethys who rides around on a corgi, staying behind the meat shields and casting cantrips and such. As compensation for there only being the three of us we got some extra attribute points, so I have really high Dex, Wis, and Cha and I kind of serve as skill monkey. Basically I was trying to make a character that provides as much utility and support as possible while the melee characters do most of the damage.

I'll look into the spells y'all recommended for tonight's session. I tried Inner Radiance Torrent, spent two full rounds charging my laser. By the time I finished the fighters had mopped up all but one guy, and he made his save and took 9 damage.

If I wanted a character who provided a lot of support and utility but also had interesting choices to make in combat, what would you suggest? I've looked at a lot of classes but there are so many builds and variants it's hard to figure out what would best do what I want. I'll probably stick with the cleric for now, but I'm sure my DM would be fine with me switching if I find something I like better.

I'll also talk about us switching to dual classing or free archetypes but I don't know if he'll go for that, since everyone else would have to change their poo poo too.

KPC_Mammon
Jan 23, 2004

Ready for the fashy circle jerk

Cool Dad posted:


I'll look into the spells y'all recommended for tonight's session. I tried Inner Radiance Torrent, spent two full rounds charging my laser. By the time I finished the fighters had mopped up all but one guy, and he made his save and took 9 damage.


I'm not really keen on charging up radiance for two rounds but did you heighten it? Offensive spells that deal damage really need to be cast with your highest level slots to be worthwhile.

Is your corgi an animal companion? If you didn't ride it you'd probably have more interesting turns spending an action giving it commands.

Chevy Slyme
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

Cool Dad posted:

I actually did archetype into Sorcerer so I could get Electric Arc and Scatter Scree, so I could do some damage. I also just picked up a greater Staff of Fire which I expect will help.

My specific build is a melixie sprite Cleric of Nethys who rides around on a corgi, staying behind the meat shields and casting cantrips and such. As compensation for there only being the three of us we got some extra attribute points, so I have really high Dex, Wis, and Cha and I kind of serve as skill monkey. Basically I was trying to make a character that provides as much utility and support as possible while the melee characters do most of the damage.

I'll look into the spells y'all recommended for tonight's session. I tried Inner Radiance Torrent, spent two full rounds charging my laser. By the time I finished the fighters had mopped up all but one guy, and he made his save and took 9 damage.

If I wanted a character who provided a lot of support and utility but also had interesting choices to make in combat, what would you suggest? I've looked at a lot of classes but there are so many builds and variants it's hard to figure out what would best do what I want. I'll probably stick with the cleric for now, but I'm sure my DM would be fine with me switching if I find something I like better.

I'll also talk about us switching to dual classing or free archetypes but I don't know if he'll go for that, since everyone else would have to change their poo poo too.


Something like an Investigator with a lot of investment in medicine can be a good choice if you want a fairly dynamic combat presence - you roll to devise a stratagem at the start of your turn - if that roll would make your attack a hit/crit, you do that. If it wouldn’t, you pivot to doing something else (even if that something else is just attacking a different target).

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



Chevy Slyme posted:

Something like an Investigator with a lot of investment in medicine can be a good choice if you want a fairly dynamic combat presence - you roll to devise a stratagem at the start of your turn - if that roll would make your attack a hit/crit, you do that. If it wouldn’t, you pivot to doing something else (even if that something else is just attacking a different target).

I really love Investigator but it seems like a lot of it's abilities are "mother may I" in regards to what can be made the subject of an investigation. When i had one in a game I was running I was pretty loose with the applicability threshold, but I played one and that GM was fairly restrictive. It's also a little challenging because by nature of the class you'll probably have most skills trained and can end up taking more scenes than other characters by nature of having that many skill proficiencies.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.
Anyone who has played a Ki monk?

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf
I'm playing a monk in a game right now and the Ki spells are honestly all pretty drat lame. I did take Ki strike, since that's good at least, but otherwise just invested in stances, stand still, and took wrestler as a free archetype for maximum grapple/punch throwdown ability. The wrastlemonk build is legit extremely fun, especially with stuff like Stoked flame stance giving you a crazy 45 foot movespeed.

impossiboobs
Oct 2, 2006


I'm also playing a monk with the wrestler archetype. I took Ki Strike in order to get some of the later Ki powers, but I've never used it. Wholeness of Body is a really nice self heal since I'm the tank of the party, and I just hit level 10 so I took Wronged Monk's Wrath, but haven't had a chance to use it. I'm in a few games right now and my monk is easily the most fun in a fight.

queeb
Jun 10, 2004

m



Ok, starting the beginner box this weekend, and then doing the troubles in otari/abomination vaults combination. Anyone have any suggestions on ways to splice them together nicely?

Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

Hi, absolutely new to P2e and might be joining a game soon. I had two questions about some of the class variety:

1) Is there enough meat to the Investigator class that it has things to do outside of very specific mystery-oriented stories?

2) What's the big difference between the niche of the Thaumaturge and the Witch?

Syrinxx
Mar 28, 2002

Death is whimsical today

queeb posted:

Ok, starting the beginner box this weekend, and then doing the troubles in otari/abomination vaults combination. Anyone have any suggestions on ways to splice them together nicely?

Bbox > Troubles is literally the same quest lady (Tamily) just telling the party to meet her for dinner so she can give them the first quest in Troubles in Otari.

AV starts at level 1 I think, so I'm not sure how you'll merge those since the party should be level 5 at the end of Troubles

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sugar free jazz
Mar 5, 2008

Nehru the Damaja posted:

Hi, absolutely new to P2e and might be joining a game soon. I had two questions about some of the class variety:

1) Is there enough meat to the Investigator class that it has things to do outside of very specific mystery-oriented stories?

2) What's the big difference between the niche of the Thaumaturge and the Witch?

Yeah investigators don't have to be played in only sherlock holmes style campaigns, they're cool.

They're just completely different. Witches are full casters, Thaumaturges figure out you're allergic to shellfish and throw clams at you then hit you with a stick.

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