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Who's your 2022 MVP? This poll is closed. |
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| Shohei Ohtani |
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50 | 59.52% |
| Aaron Judge |
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19 | 22.62% |
| Hey, the national league has an MVP too you know! |
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15 | 17.86% |
| Total: | 84 votes | ||
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Some Numbers posted:Objectively speaking, a huge number of HoF members are/were probably huge pieces of poo poo. I mean I'm not gonna dig through the numbers but I singled these two guys out specifically because they are not only pieces of poo poo, but also do not deserve to be in the hall on the merits. Moris: Didn't even crack 50 bWAR, never had an incredible peak, doesn't really have any impressive counting stats besides 3800 IP, never won a Cy or MVP, a fairly mixed postseason pitching record. He was a solid workhorse pitcher but otherwise feels more like a hall of pretty good guy. Selig: Directly culpable in the 94'-95' strikes that almost killed the entire sport, facilitated the shell games around the collapse of the Expos despite having a direct financial conflict of interest, and is credited for "reviving" the sport post-strike even though he did this by letting the players juice up and hit big dingers until congress got mad, at which point he put all the blame and culpability on the players and executed a witch hunt. Selig is legitimately one of the worst commissioners the sport has ever had - significantly worse than Manfred and that is saying quite a bit - and that he coasted into the Hall despite it all is absolutely fucknuts asinine.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:22
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| # ? May 30, 2024 05:23 |
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Vote out anyone who played before integration 
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Jan 25, 2023 22:25
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I learned from Cespedes BBQ this week that the “character clause” was actually added as a way to include more people who fell short on the field but were beloved or whatever. It wasn’t originally conceived as a way to exclude assholes. My stance on shithead-exclusion is unchanged: if your play is worthy but you are a huge rear end in a top hat/wifebeater/rapist/nazi/etc then you don’t get in while alive to enjoy and leverage it. Put those guys in 5-10 years after they die and note it on their plaque. “Curt Schilling: 3116 strikeouts, one of the greatest postseason pitchers ever, such an outspoken right wing prick that no one wanted him to give a speech, inducted posthumously.” “Cap Anson: impossibly long 27 year career, pioneer of the game and of racist segregation in baseball.” “Roger Clemens: 7x Cy Young Award winner is the most all time, only pitcher to strike out 20 batters in a game on two separate occasions, groomed an underage girl while in his late 20’s, inducted posthumously” “Pete Rose: All time hits leader, famous for hard-nosed play style, earned a lifetime ban for betting on baseball while a player/manager, rapist, inducted posthumously” Etc bawfuls fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 22:25
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The old time players in the Hall shouldn't be removed because they capture a time in America where people thought noteworthy achievement was like when O'Grady "Mahogany Switch" Ryan pitched a no-hitter for the Hartford (racist name omitted) in 1896 where he famously went home to beat his children between innings and still made it back in time for the top of the 8th
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Jan 25, 2023 22:25
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CC is in two years? He's gonna be my next big "probably not gonna get it but I'm gonna be sad about it" guy.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:27
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Intruder posted:Vote out anyone who played before integration I don't think we should do that, but they should all be moved to a special "Scared White Boys Who Weren't As Good As People Think" wing STAC Goat posted:CC is in two years? He's gonna be my next big "probably not gonna get it but I'm gonna be sad about it" guy. He's going in and I refuse to think anything else
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Jan 25, 2023 22:27
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Intruder posted:Vote out anyone who played before integration You wanna kick Josh Gibson out of the hall go for it
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Jan 25, 2023 22:27
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STAC Goat posted:CC is in two years? He's gonna be my next big "probably not gonna get it but I'm gonna be sad about it" guy.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:31
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STAC Goat posted:CC is in two years? He's gonna be my next big "probably not gonna get it but I'm gonna be sad about it" guy. I think voters are going to fall prey to the "He wasn't really a top 5 pitcher" thing
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Jan 25, 2023 22:31
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Honestly until I went to his bb-ref page I figured CC was more of a fringe guy but he's got a way better shot than I thought.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:32
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Sabathia has 62 bWAR, a Cy, 3000 K's, a ring, and pitched for the Yankees over an 18 year career that never saw him horribly decline or hang around just to pad his stats or whatever. Probably not a first ballot guy but I'd be shocked if he doesn't make it in well before he's slated to fall off. e. Like the only thing Sabathia doesn't really have is a strong peak. He had some elite individual seasons but they're not really grouped together
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Jan 25, 2023 22:35
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I think CC is on the right side of "borderline" and he's well liked and a member of the media now and done a ton of good stuff so he should have the edge. But I dunno. Like yeah he's not going in first ballot with Ichiro and I guess that's fine. First ballot is stupid but whatever. Give Ichiro his stage. But then that opens the door to quibbling and hedging and I'm preparing myself.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:35
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CC will absolutely get in within 5 years. As noted he’s got 3000K’s which gets him there for the old school crowd and 62 WAR for the new school.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:37
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Is it still true that only 2 pitchers born in the 70s are in the Hall of Fame or has something changed? Last I understood, Pettitte was the last player who could change that and I doubt he'll ever make it.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:37
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Intruder posted:Vote out anyone who played before integration No Ruth? Also, what about people who only played part of their career during integration? Does Ted Williams get kicked out?
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Jan 25, 2023 22:46
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tadashi posted:Is it still true that only 2 pitchers born in the 70s are in the Hall of Fame or has something changed?
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Jan 25, 2023 22:47
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Some Numbers posted:No Ruth? I'm not prepared to get into individual names because I was just throwing something out there since I didn't really see it as a serious topic and just jokesy fun
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Jan 25, 2023 22:49
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Intruder posted:I'm not prepared to get into individual names because I was just throwing something out there since I didn't really see it as a serious topic and just jokesy fun
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Jan 25, 2023 22:53
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm extremely serious about putting Ryan Braun in Listen we all want to put Ryan Braun in a memory hole where we never have to think about him ever
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Jan 25, 2023 22:57
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm extremely serious about putting Ryan Braun in MODS???
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Jan 25, 2023 22:59
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In one of those "financial ruin you're hype for" stories, the Bally Sports RSNs are heading toward bankruptcy and will probably miss their payments to teams. We can only hope(?) this kind of thing could possibly the start of an avalanche of sports broadcasting business failures that could be beneficial to people who hate the blackout map and teams grifting off non-fans to play games with miniscule attendance.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:00
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FlamingLiberal posted:I'm extremely serious about putting Ryan Braun in prison
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Jan 25, 2023 23:03
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alpha_destroy posted:What does elite even mean then? Especially in regards to premium positions like s catcher, shortstop, and center? Elite compared to what? His lifetime OBP is .323. Over a 21-year career, he had 5 seasons where he slugged over .500. He had 5 with an OBP over .340. He hit 30 or more HRs 3 times. He wasn't a big base stealer, didn't do X/Y/Z especially well, he just played for a long time. He has a bunch of gold gloves, but we know those aren't really based on anything more than an eye test, and his defensive WAR (which has its own flaws, I know) is meh aside from a year or two in Montreal. That doesn't really scream elite to me. I think time will be kinder to guys like Raines, though. He's not a CFer, but I also don't think he was on everyone's minds when he first became eligible. He got in on his 10th try, and his enshrinement had a lot of people re-examine his career and go "oh hey, wow".
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Jan 25, 2023 23:04
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Ryan Braun can stay out of prison if he and MLB hold a special ceremony officially giving Matt Kemp the 2011 NL MVP Award
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Jan 25, 2023 23:06
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If CC gets in so should Buehrle (Buehrle should be in)
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Jan 25, 2023 23:06
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bawfuls posted:Ryan Braun can stay out of prison if he and MLB hold a special ceremony officially giving Matt Kemp the 2011 NL MVP Award and then he still gets put into prison
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Jan 25, 2023 23:07
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Craptacular! posted:In one of those "financial ruin you're hype for" stories, the Bally Sports RSNs are heading toward bankruptcy and will probably miss their payments to teams. We can only hope(?) this kind of thing could possibly the start of an avalanche of sports broadcasting business failures that could be beneficial to people who hate the blackout map and teams grifting off non-fans to play games with miniscule attendance.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:08
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That's the hope, though I don't trust a single one of the leagues to put together a fan-friendly, well-made app that lets you watch the games of the team of your choice for a reasonable price.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:10
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zoux posted:That's the hope, though I don't trust a single one of the leagues to put together a fan-friendly, well-made app that lets you watch the games of the team of your choice for a reasonable price. The collapse of RSNs is going to hurt MLB for awhile, I would imagine. A lot of the juicing of salaries has come because of the extra money teams are getting from RSN deals.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:14
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There's a lot of great stuff in the recent Jeff Pearlman's recent Bo Jackson biography (he nearly strangled Kevin Seitzer to death once), but this made me laugh: (That sounds gross, Tony might've been right for once.)
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Jan 25, 2023 23:14
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:If CC gets in so should Buehrle (Buehrle should be in) Buehrle's induction speech would be "Wow, thanks!"
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Jan 25, 2023 23:14
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Red posted:His lifetime OBP is .323. Over a 21-year career, he had 5 seasons where he slugged over .500. He had 5 with an OBP over .340. He hit 30 or more HRs 3 times. He wasn't a big base stealer, didn't do X/Y/Z especially well, he just played for a long time. He has a bunch of gold gloves, but we know those aren't really based on anything more than an eye test, and his defensive WAR (which has its own flaws, I know) is meh aside from a year or two in Montreal. From 1980-1990 Dawson had a 129 OPS+ with plus defense at a premium position. He led the league in total bases twice and HR once, the later got him an MVP. He was also a plus on the basepaths according to Fangraphs. As Bill James pointed out long ago, guys who do everything well but nothing outstanding tend to be underrated. They are quite valuable though, which is what WAR helps us to see and appreciate. bawfuls fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 23:15
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bawfuls posted:You have to use context neutral stats for this, you can’t just look at raw OBP or SLG. WAR is just made up to make
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Jan 25, 2023 23:20
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what's hilarious is even if you want to place a floor of like 80 WAR for the HoF, Trout is already past that
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Jan 25, 2023 23:21
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zoux posted:That's the hope, though I don't trust a single one of the leagues to put together a fan-friendly, well-made app that lets you watch the games of the team of your choice for a reasonable price. What's a reasonable price? MLBtv is what, $130? Would you pay that much for only your team? Would you pay $200 for mlbtv + home market games?
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Jan 25, 2023 23:30
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I paid $70 a month for just astros games through Fubo so that. I cancelled it because they are jacking the price $20 and in return I can now watch Rangers games also. You could not pay me to watch Rangers games. Honestly I think $49.99 is a good price point for 162 games. Guy on reddit makes a table of dudes who were on a HoF pace but fell off after 30. No actives. 
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Jan 25, 2023 23:31
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Darude - Adam Sandstorm posted:If CC gets in so should Buehrle (Buehrle should be in) wow, you say these things and I can't help but think to myself "this take is simultaneously good, correct, and perfect"
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Jan 25, 2023 23:34
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FlamingLiberal posted:The collapse of RSNs is going to hurt MLB for awhile, I would imagine. A lot of the juicing of salaries has come because of the extra money teams are getting from RSN deals. This is the big issue, the RSN deals were a huge cash cow for MLB and even if MLB buys back all the rights for pennies on the dollar, the most likely scenario would be them just trying to turn back around and find the next sucker who'll pay big bucks for them. I've seen a lot of speculation that MLB might try to consolidate it all in house and provide its own broadcast/streaming business - which could potentially lead to the death of the regional blackout - but I'm really skeptical that this would happen since I don't see how this would make teams nearly as much money as they would by selling the rights. Additionally there are teams who have rights not sold to Bally Sports, so to create a holistic in house solution MLB would have to actually pony up to buy back the rights from everybody else.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:35
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I actually do think Buehrle should be in. He falls just (barely) short of the 60 WAR but his perfect game, no hitter, and ring should make up for that
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Jan 25, 2023 23:50
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| # ? May 30, 2024 05:23 |
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plus he tops out the scale on 'would be cool to hang out with'
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Jan 25, 2023 23:58
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