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8th ms team has the thing were two characters meet for like 3 -5 hours total and then decide that they are madly in love and completely change their worldviews based on this limited interaction. It's lovely lazy writing that I despise. It becomes such a central part of the story later on that it becomes impossible to ignore. Shiro went from a decent character prior to the whole mountain range with Aina to his character going down the cliff, with him actively endangering his teammates just because he doesn't want to kill zeon due to him having a thing for one zeon soldier.
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Jan 25, 2023 20:04
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Arc Hammer posted:At least Terry gets his cameo in the 0083 Rebellion manga. Terry is the only one is seems to be acknowledged by any other media that I can tell. ninjewtsu posted:also isn't there technically a zeta gundam thing in the same timeline as the origin made by a different dude? Are we talking about MSG Zeta the movie retelling that significantly changed pieces of the story most notably the ending? I'm not sure which version Sunrise considers "canon" but that is another property that falls under its not really AU but it doesn't seem like a "canon" UC story.
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Jan 25, 2023 20:05
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Zeta A New Translation does not have anything to do with The Origin, and it's generally considered non-canon since the changes it makes to the ending basically mean ZZ can't happen But also canon is a fake concept made up by the pope to sell bibles so whatever
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Jan 25, 2023 20:10
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I know writers who use canon and they're cowards.
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Jan 25, 2023 20:12
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The only canon I support is the Guncanon
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Jan 25, 2023 20:14
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Supremezero posted:I know writers who use canon and they're cowards. The winning philosophy behind Thunderbolt.
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Jan 25, 2023 20:15
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Ninjewtsu is talking about Zeta Define I think
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Jan 25, 2023 20:15
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Supremezero posted:I know writers who use canon and they're cowards. "There’s a lot of sepia flashbacks of a cellist being gunned down. The episodes were running up to eight minutes under. The only way to stretch them out was with sepia flashbacks of a cellist being gunned down. And we tried to keep the sepia flashbacks of a cellist being gunned down away from the dialogue as much as possible. Anything without dialogue was considered for sepia flashbacks of a cellist being gunned down."
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Jan 25, 2023 20:24
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Monaghan posted:8th ms team has the thing were two characters meet for like 3 -5 hours total and then decide that they are madly in love and completely change their worldviews based on this limited interaction. It's lovely lazy writing that I despise. It becomes such a central part of the story later on that it becomes impossible to ignore. It's literally Romeo and Juliet.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:07
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Romeo and Juliet were teenagers
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Jan 25, 2023 21:12
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I did like how Shiro just get loving maimed at the end, losing a leg and I think an arm. I think the heel turn of falling in love would've made more sense if they were newtypes because that's a thing they do, but the show explicitly moved itself away from the space magic aspect of the franchise.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:12
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Gaius Marius posted:Romeo and Juliet were teenagers They're also very dumb and impetuous, because see above
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Jan 25, 2023 21:14
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Lemon-Lime posted:It's literally Romeo and Juliet. Romeo and Juliet had two families who didn't like each other, they weren't involved in an enormous war with half the population of earth dying. Romeo and Juliet weren't conscripted and trained soldiers. Hell Romeo didn't see a massive war crime being committed right in front of him by Juliet's family. Anyway, Romeo and Juliet has a lot of other themes going for it along with the prose of Shakespeare. So I can forgive Romeo and Juliet for having that plot point. the latter half of the 8th ms team does not have those things going for it. Monaghan fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 21:16
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Kojima sighing and mournfully declaring that "we're no better than they are" because Ryer was going full warhawk on the Zekes does not make for a moral equivalence akin to the Montague/Capulet feud.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:30
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Monaghan posted:Romeo and Juliet had two families who didn't like each other, they weren't involved in an enormous war with half the population of earth dying. Romeo and Juliet weren't conscripted and trained soldiers. Hell Romeo didn't see a massive war crime being committed right in front of him by Juliet's family. The show creates an incongruity based on that almost immediately, because when Shiro and Aina both retreat to the shell of a destroyed ship after they take each other's units out, they start independently checking out the ship and Shiro has Aina in his sights and ready to draw down on this enemy soldier he just fought; only he then sees that the enemy soldier is bleeding, and immediately rushes in to help. He doesn't do it because it's a woman or anything either. He isn't aware of her gender by that point. He just wants to help someone he sees is hurt, even over their objections once he tries. Which seems really loving out of place once you get his flashback to seeing the people of a colony basically melt in front of his face due to Zeon's gassing a few episodes later. It'd be one thing if the show's Romeo & Juliet plot had them start out hating, or even distrusting each other. Romeo in this case just jumps straight to wanting to help Juliet for no apparent reason though, even though he has every reason to hate her. The show backs off on the relationship for a few episodes, but there's really not far to fall for Shiro to decide he's in love with Aina after that first episode. They might as well be Newtypes for all the difference it makes. poo poo, at least if they were Newtypes then it'd give a cause for the suddenness of the relationship.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:41
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You get more Shakespeare from lady Prospera. I want a Gundam take on Falstaff and Hal
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Jan 25, 2023 21:45
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tsob posted:The show creates an incongruity based on that almost immediately, because when Shiro and Aina both retreat to the shell of a destroyed ship after they take each other's units out, they start independently checking out the ship and Shiro has Aina in his sights and ready to draw down on this enemy soldier he just fought; only he then sees that the enemy soldier is bleeding, and immediately rushes in to help. He doesn't do it because it's a woman or anything either. He isn't aware of her gender by that point. He just wants to help someone he sees is hurt, even over their objections once he tries. Which seems really loving out of place once you get his flashback to seeing the people of a colony basically melt in front of his face due to Zeon's gassing a few episodes later. See, the thing there for me is that there's an obvious character beat for Shiro available in having him be naturally "above" the war. That is, his native empathy is so strong that, even when he feels like it's what he morally should do, he can't bring himself to hate the enemy. You can get some good mileage from that, both in him inspiring people to be better, and in him having trouble doing what's actually necessary. (Depending on where you want the show's morality to fall, you could even have his conflict with Ginias climax with a line like "So. This is what hate feels like. ...I can see why it's so popular these days.") He's helping Aina because he wants to help people, and being the enemy is irrelevant. But by having him talk about how he wants vengeance, everything feels absurd.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:52
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Shiro is wildly inconsistent from episode to episode. It's love at first site with Aina, then he manages to bungle his first deployment and goes "oh gently caress yeah sweet" while watching Kiki bathe. Some episodes he's a decent commander. Other episodes he's "he wants me to retreat time to attack AAAAAAAARGHDFHFHSSHFH!!!!" Sometimes he hates, sometimes he's a pacifist who would make Banagher tell him to grow a pair. He's not all that great of a protagonist. He's not as actively stupid as someone like Kou but that's not a very high bar to clear.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:56
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Hey, at least Kou has a better romance with an enemy.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:13
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tsob posted:Hey, at least Kou has a better romance with an enemy. Wouldn't you? Kelly is a hunk.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:16
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Arc Hammer posted:Shiro is wildly inconsistent from episode to episode. It's love at first site with Aina, then he manages to bungle his first deployment and goes "oh gently caress yeah sweet" while watching Kiki bathe. Some episodes he's a decent commander. Other episodes he's "he wants me to retreat time to attack AAAAAAAARGHDFHFHSSHFH!!!!" Sometimes he hates, sometimes he's a pacifist who would make Banagher tell him to grow a pair. Kou's extra frustrating since, in episode 1, he seems like he's going to be okay. He leans into the mech nerd thing, his friendship with Keith sets up a good dynamic, he and Nina are obviously going to have a Sam and Diane thing... But then he doesn't really keep it together going forward, and Nina's arc crashes in incomprehensible ways, and the potential is wasted. Say what you well about Banagher (I have, more than once) but he at least feels consistant.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:23
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I've done enough slagging off 08th MS Team so I'll say something nice about it. It has probably the best soundtrack of any of the 90s shows besides Turn A. "VII" is one hell of a boss battle theme. It's a show where the soundtrack is just as good or better than the OP and ED, just quality throughout. Also the best eyecatch music. 0083 has fantastic OP and ED songs but a kinda middling OST (Back To Paradise is still good though) and War in the Pocket's music sounds a bit too "80s PSA announcement" at times. Fantastic ED though, really heartbreaking. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 22:33
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https://twitter.com/charasoon_ken/status/1618278739129028611?s=46&t=-lBxKN4UBjJKHBlJPGMNvA
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Jan 25, 2023 23:12
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Gripweed posted:https://twitter.com/charasoon_ken/status/1618278739129028611?s=46&t=-lBxKN4UBjJKHBlJPGMNvA That char has been on the bench press with that chest.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:13
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Gripweed posted:https://twitter.com/charasoon_ken/status/1618278739129028611?s=46&t=-lBxKN4UBjJKHBlJPGMNvA 
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Jan 25, 2023 23:19
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The thing about 08th MS Team that really gets me is thinking about how it's an OVA. On the one hand, its inconsistencies could be smoothed over by watching it over a longer time, but I feel like so many episodes would be unsatisfying to be left waiting for months until you get more. I guess it's hard for someone from the west who got into anime in the late 2000s to really get into the 90s OVA buying headspace, though.
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Jan 26, 2023 01:08
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1st Stage Midboss posted:The thing about 08th MS Team that really gets me is thinking about how it's an OVA. On the one hand, its inconsistencies could be smoothed over by watching it over a longer time, but I feel like so many episodes would be unsatisfying to be left waiting for months until you get more. I guess it's hard for someone from the west who got into anime in the late 2000s to really get into the 90s OVA buying headspace, though. Unicorn was released like that. The episodes were definitely uneven and not all worth the asking price ($40 per I think?)
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Jan 26, 2023 01:16
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08th MS team was also plagued by a director change, just like 0083 and Gundam Wing and you can feel the sudden shift in all 3.
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Jan 26, 2023 01:37
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I am watching F91 to break in the new condo
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Jan 26, 2023 02:34
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It's great
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Jan 26, 2023 02:57
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Vigna Ghina When Quattro Vaginas just aren't enough, so you get twenty instead.
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Jan 26, 2023 02:58
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Here's how I fix 08th MS Team: Cut Aina and Shiro entirely. Karen is our protagonist instead of getting jobbed at the drop of a hat. They keep getting new officers and none of 'em lasts longer than an episode. They have no loving idea who Norris is, but they finally work out their dysfunctions and take him down after he kills their latest Sleggar-y ace officer. The team is deployed as part of the attack on the Apsalus but it actually gets destroyed by a Federation ace. Let's say, oh, Sayla. The last episode is about how the teams' lives end up after the war. Keep that bonus episode where the officer-of-the-episode throws Michel off a bridge to take down an enemy ace, though. The 08th OP is still my favorite in the franchise. That's some good 90's anime opener right there.
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Jan 26, 2023 03:23
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Loving the vibe of there not being enough time to naturally explore the themes so everyone has to say the themes out loud E: Oh my god Iron Mask is SO loving STUPID I adore him Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 26, 2023 |
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Jan 26, 2023 03:30
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F91 I'd so weird in that you can tell the exact moment when poo poo went off the rails. Everything after the f91s first fight is a mess.
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Jan 26, 2023 03:51
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https://twitter.com/g_tekketsu/status/1618443745791299585?s=20&t=pascrujHljykJ8K71ARS7Q
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Jan 26, 2023 04:10
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Oh wait is that the end lol
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Jan 26, 2023 04:28
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Monaghan posted:F91 I'd so weird in that you can tell the exact moment when poo poo went off the rails. Everything after the f91s first fight is a mess. Mobile Suit Breakdown is almost done with its F91 series, including a couple episodes about just how off the rails things got. Apparently, there was juicy interpersonal drama involved.
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Jan 26, 2023 04:57
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Waffleman_ posted:https://twitter.com/g_tekketsu/status/1618443745791299585?s=20&t=pascrujHljykJ8K71ARS7Q It's like the Barbatos hosed a throne, a truly regrettable design.
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Jan 26, 2023 05:00
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Monaghan posted:F91 I'd so weird in that you can tell the exact moment when poo poo went off the rails. Everything after the f91s first fight is a mess. Yeah, that's probably when they ran out of the 13 episodes they had written and were just going off outlines
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Jan 26, 2023 05:02
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tsob posted:The first episode ends with Gihren's speech playing, but it's also worth bearing in mind that Shiro joins the "08th" mobile suit team, which implies there are at least 7 others and that those others pre-exist his team by at least a bit. The exact timing on that isn't readily apparent, but it's obviously not just a couple of days or one or two prototype machines being fielded if there are multiple organized teams being fielded to the front lines. Sunrise have established them as first starting up in June or July of UC0079 if I recall, but that could change again if someone else decided to add some new stuff. But you don't just get it, Norris is an ace and the 08th Team are just regular pilots because an Ace is just so much better! Edit: but real talk, Gundam, Universal Century Gundam and all its sidestories and spinoffs, has a very large problem with being very fascist adjacent and drawing from pro-fascist or "We took nazi memoirs they wrote to get NATO jobs at face value" viewpoints and histories of WW2. While this can be seen in lots of things, such as the Federation being essentially an amalgamation of fascist complaints about Western Democracies, Fascist Racism and Propaganda against the West and the Soviet Union, and Japanese Propaganda and racism against China, Korea, and the United States, and postwar criticisms of Japan being an ally of the US; or the repeated idea that Zeon and Zeon Remnants are better at war because of their <insert fascist term here> while the Federation and its soldiers "Don't believe in things"- I think one way it shows up is if you look at Gundam's deification of Ace Pilots. We never see talk of Federation Ace Pilots. There's nothing like "Man because of the lack of trained pilots on Zeon's side, so many Federation Pilots became Aces in a Day at A Baoa Qu". What we do get, instead, is Zeon Aces raking up more mobile suit kills in the last months of the One Year War than Nazi German pilots racked up in aircraft and ground targets killed during the many years of the Eastern Front of WW2- while the Luftwaffe pilots were hoped up on Meth and flying multiple sorties a day, and its still generally accepted that these kill numbers are vastly overstated because They love their propaganda. I'm not saying that Gundam is Fascist- just that Tomino was writing with a certain worldview and a certain inherently flawed historiography of WW2 to base the One Year War on. I mean I will say that 0083 and 08th MS Team and Unicorn are pretty goddamned fashy, though. Also Code Fairy has Zeon idols praying at the wreckage of the Hidolfr, so. Edit Edit: I actually think that someone did the math, and the official combined MS Kill Count from every Zeon Ace in the OYW actually comes out to two times the total amount of Mobile Suits that the Federation made in the OYW. Fivemarks fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jan 26, 2023 |
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