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Barreft
Jul 21, 2014

Augus posted:

every one of alear's c supports is just her allies being insanely weird and alear trying as hard as possible to be polite to them

It's so good

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SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Hellioning posted:

No gonna lie I either forgot or didn't notice in the first place that Alear's promotion gave them arts until someone pointed out that is why it doesn't get S swords.

Free brave weapons, you love to see it.

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012

pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is
i started again on hard because normal was feeling toothless but i think i see where endorph was coming from with the difficulty gradient being shifted relative to 3h; i found 3h hard mostly tedious and annoying but engage hard feels a lot more in line with conquest hard, just with a lot less checking enemies and a lot more 'oh god i forgot about backup attacks'

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Hellioning posted:

I couldn't imagine giving up Dragon bonuses for anything, honestly.

Yeah the Dragon type is basically the core of what the Divine Dragon class offers for Alear, and honestly I think it's enough. It's a really useful typing and you're not exactly swimming in Dragon units. Alear as any other class is basically the same as any other character without too much special about them (they can't do the busted things Corrin can, for example), but Alear as a Divine Dragon is really versatile.

I do think Alear is a decent candidate for a pair of boots, though, especially because they don't really have a reliable ranged option in their default class.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

SyntheticPolygon posted:

And also punching is very cool

Punching is very cool but not really all that useful on Alear in my experience.

On the other hand I've enjoyed turning Framme into the Bajiquan goddess of death who occasionally heals people when she feels like it.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.
Honestly warrior Anna loving slays with the magic bow.

I wish I could have taken her into sage or magic knight but this feels like it works well on Maddening. Like fliers just burst into nothing when she remotely looks at them which I feel is her purpose. That and Dual strike on 3 range is just so unbelievably valuable for the really hardcore enemies.

The late arrivals seem like, way too powerful from my perspective. Every single one arrived at a higher level or equal to my most advanced party members but with 1500+ SP to spend. It's really hard to justify the level 14 Framme on your team with 600 SP that you've babied from level 1 when Ivy's shown up with 1200 SP at level 17.

Also with the fixed growths from Maddening your Frame is never going to be better than that Ivy anyway.

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
I'm actually curious how maddening plays because I am absolutely crutchiing on early game louis to stonewall enemies and midde-to-late game dodge tank covert to save my rear end. Because the AI suddenly turns conquest and ignores those 0% chances.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

Tae posted:

I'm actually curious how maddening plays because I am absolutely crutchiing on early game louis to stonewall enemies and midde-to-late game dodge tank covert to save my rear end. Because the AI suddenly turns conquest and ignores those 0% chances.

I've said this in a few places. It's very, very defensive.

You have a murderball or two. You pull enemies carefully into the murderball and kill them with swarms of long range and followup attacks.

Realistically you just can't attack into anything because either you have to expend rescue staff uses that are rare as hell to get the attacking unit out or you have to all in and since most enemies will take 2-3 actions to kill, you'll probably lose the all in without spending engages.

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd
hahahahaha sigurd's paralogue

would very much like to thank this goon for the most hilarious strategy of all time

RuBisCO posted:

Sigurd's paralogue map is the best thing I have ever played, hands-down.

In the second half, like 3 dozen soldiers flood out of his castle and start marching towards yours. Except Sigurd has such bonkers movement that you can easily line up some of your defensive units and he'll charge way ahead of his gigantic army and Override right into your team. And then if you box in your units, he can't Canter back out.



I can't believe I'm about to commit a FE4 on this man again :allears:

edit: the most hilarious thing about this was seeing the procs for both Momentum+ and Override pop up, followed shortly thereafter by the *tink* sound effect of doing 0 damage to both Diamant and Louis. :rip: sigurd.

Blaziken386 fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Jan 27, 2023

Fajita Queen
Jun 21, 2012

Sydin posted:

Anna wants to be Est but doesn't really have the growths to pull it off, and I say this as somebody who dragged her up through the mud to the late game. She's currently a level 13 warrior and probably the worst unit on my core team, mostly because she just absolutely refuses to gain a decent amount of STR or DEF. Her build is also pretty bad even as a warrior. Like she's fine, but a lot of units in my army are way better and if I ever do another run I'm probably just going to hold out for Panette who as a base level 1 berserker I've shown zero combat still has higher STR than Anna.

Anna is a mage that's stuck in fighter as a joke. She has the highest personal MAG growth in the game.

blizzardvizard
Sep 12, 2012

Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion :3:

It may well change in the later chapters (I'm on 12 right now) but I really don't feel like I have to be very defensive on Maddening. Past the very early chapters I started getting into one-round thresholds and Chloe or Alear could manage to EP 2-3 enemies in a turn. In Chapter 9 I just Rewarped Alear to the fort in front of the armors and he ate them all with Rapier. The maps also have enough recharge points that I could just pop my Emblem on turn 1 or 2. Enemy stats don't seem to be as inflated as in 3H so I feel like I can still be aggressive.

Also even if Louis can't magnet all of the enemies to him it usually still means he can aggro one or two enemies while the rest starts making their way to your team, which means you've broken their formation, and that's enough advantage in itself.

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

blizzardvizard posted:

It may well change in the later chapters (I'm on 12 right now) but I really don't feel like I have to be very defensive on Maddening. Past the very early chapters I started getting into one-round thresholds and Chloe or Alear could manage to EP 2-3 enemies in a turn. In Chapter 9 I just Rewarped Alear to the fort in front of the armors and he ate them all with Rapier. The maps also have enough recharge points that I could just pop my Emblem on turn 1 or 2. Enemy stats don't seem to be as inflated as in 3H so I feel like I can still be aggressive.

Also even if Louis can't magnet all of the enemies to him it usually still means he can aggro one or two enemies while the rest starts making their way to your team, which means you've broken their formation, and that's enough advantage in itself.

It might just be a matter of perspective between us. I feel like the stat inflation here for example is way worse than what I dealt with in 3H Maddening, so I'd never trust a rewarp into a bunch of armours even with a rapier. But that means our baseline perspectives are very very different.

This, to me, feels like a much more restrictive game than 3H does.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I think ivy's squad is a special case; they're not emblematic (heh) of broad imbalance of easy and late joiners, they're just strong prepromotes who join you about a third of the way through the game and can make sure you have at least a few strong units to get you through one of the more difficult sections of the story. They never really drop off or anything but they won't keep outclassing your other units forever, either. They're Hawkeye or Catherine or Calill. It's good that the game has a variety of units who join undercurve (Anna) or overcurve (Kagetsu). Variety is the spice of life

Like Kagetsu is a great unit but great units existing is not a design flaw. I love having some units who I have to put some work into and maybe even get disappointed by, and having some who I can just hit deploy on and set them to work. I like intentionally telling the game "nah I'm good" when they hand me something to carry me, and I also like using the cool powerful unit they hand me. These are all fun fire emblem experiences, imo

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!
Kagetsu is wild because I never used him once, and by chapter 18 and like 9 paralogues later, I could easily drop him into my party without missing a beat. His starting bases are just that insane.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Everyone has their own unique stamp in the Ally Notebook, that's cute.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Going pretty slow and am just finishing up Chapter 9 here. The plot has been pretty simplistic so far, but still pretty enjoyable. And most of the characters have been growing on me quite a lot, despite generally being fairly straightforward. Weirdly the twins in particular have been pretty fun, given their general archetype is one I'm usually indifferent - at best - to. Something about the general enthusiasm plus me kind of seeing how it might have come about seeing how generally isolated from most contact they seem to have been. On the other hand, Alfred's group have probably been my least favorite characters so far, due to probably being the most singularly dedicated to their trait, and it not being one that's terribly amusing - I don't dislike them, and Boucheron at least has some variety, but just fairly indifferent.

The change back to RN certainly results in some... interesting results at times though. It didn't require a crystal charge to fix because the damage was low enough, but just had a single character, in 2 rounds, get hit by 5/6 attacks (1 miss each round) with the odds being 30% for all attacks in the first, round, and 26% in the second. Like seriously, what the hell game.

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Honestly outside of his support with Etie (never got his one with Boucheron) Alfred doesn't seem to go on about muscles or whatever that much. A bunch of his supports have more been about how he's just kinda dumb.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

SyntheticPolygon posted:

Honestly outside of his support with Etie (never got his one with Boucheron) Alfred doesn't seem to go on about muscles or whatever that much. A bunch of his supports have more been about how he's just kinda dumb.

Well his C support with Boucheron involves him staring at and touching Bourcheron's muscles so between that and Etie it is easy to get that impression.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

SyntheticPolygon posted:

Honestly outside of his support with Etie (never got his one with Boucheron) Alfred doesn't seem to go on about muscles or whatever that much. A bunch of his supports have more been about how he's just kinda dumb.

Fair, though seeing his C/B supports so far with Celine, "dumb as a box of rocks" AND completely oblivious isn't any more endearing. It admittedly isn't muscles though. His support with Boucheron at the very least C/B) is entirely muscle-based as well. B involves him just following Boucheron around the whole day to see what secret part of it is good for muscles.

blizzardvizard
Sep 12, 2012

Shhh... don't wake up the sleeping lion :3:

I hope Firene has a good HR department

Hargrimm
Sep 22, 2011

W A R R E N
Holy moly Chapter 17 is a bit of a difficulty spike. I just spent 25 minutes puzzling out a single turn where my team was hemmed in on the lower path with Marnie, Mauvier, and the drat piercing 33-dmg monster all in attacking range. Finally ended up being able to do it without even blowing a divine pulse, but it took carefully crafting every single move I had down the wire to pull it off using Byleth's dance and several other Engages.

Hard is definitely actually hard after the joke it was in 3H. I still don't enjoy the story or characterizations here as much as I did in that, but it's undeniably a much tighter experience gameplay-wise.

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

I like Alfred's C support with Yunaka where she's trying to tell him he should be more suspicious of her and he's just like "No you seem nice, I don't think i'll do that. If you really want me to I guess I could give it a try though".

Anyway, the character who seems most defined by one trait so far is probably Celine. As outside of the Alfred support every chain has heavily featured Tea. That lady sure does love talking about tea.

Andrast
Apr 21, 2010


SyntheticPolygon posted:

I like Alfred's C support with Yunaka where she's trying to tell him he should be more suspicious of her and he's just like "No you seem nice, I don't think i'll do that. If you really want me to I guess I could give it a try though".

Anyway, the character who seems most defined by one trait so far is probably Celine. As outside of the Alfred support every chain has heavily featured Tea. That lady sure does love talking about tea.

Tea is good

SyntheticPolygon
Dec 20, 2013

Hell, i'll drink to that.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 28, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.
alright hot nuclear take

byleth's paralogue just sucks

that said it did amuse me that hortensia was in range of him and they did a whole dialog and sensei said "thought we might fight, we still are friends. This is just joust after all" before pulling out a glock and killing her

Natural 20
Sep 17, 2007

Wearer of Compasses. Slayer of Gods. Champion of the Colosseum. Heart of the Void.
Saviour of Hallownest.

The issue of experience differences can definitely be argued but I think SP is where things get sent off.

Everyone post Fogado joins with at least 1500 SP.

For my context that's Tiki's +15% growth skill just immediately.

Rosado joins with 1800. So you can get him Tiki's +15% growth and also +20% experience straight away.

If they joined absent the SP disparities I think I'd feel that there was more of a debate about this, but of my entire opening squad, Louis has the most SP and he got to 1500 three or four missions after Rosado joined (okay technically I'm lying, Celine also had more but I ground out SP with her by abusing Miciah) and is also four internal levels lower. (despite having Lineage/Mentorship)

Unit diversity is really good and something I like, but to me this is just too polarising.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

Gamerofthegame posted:

alright hot nuclear take

byleth's paralogue just sucks

It took me an embarrassingly long time to contrive a strategy to protect all the crystals which on the one hand is cool and good map design but also the rewards for doing so were poo poo and I'm still mad about it.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

Put almost 2h into engage finally, got to the base, picked up loot, explored, rested (whatever that does) picked up loot again before I had to put it down. Found some manure, debating giving someone on my team poop just because.

otherwise I'll be playing this till 4am when I need to be up at 7am

So far I'm not seeing the complaints

story is very anime and I LOVE the voice acting, it's perfect, especially from the lady main character

graphics aren't a complete powerpoint slideshow like 3 houses

the only complaint is that the cutscenes really jump over whole segments that shouldn't be jumped over at all. "hey this place, every time i come back here, it's always awesome" says the amnesiac and the player has never seen this area before

:whoptc:

Blaziken386
Jun 27, 2013

I'm what the kids call: a big nerd

cheetah7071 posted:

I think ivy's squad is a special case; they're not emblematic (heh) of broad imbalance of easy and late joiners, they're just strong prepromotes who join you about a third of the way through the game and can make sure you have at least a few strong units to get you through one of the more difficult sections of the story. They never really drop off or anything but they won't keep outclassing your other units forever, either. They're Hawkeye or Catherine or Calill. It's good that the game has a variety of units who join undercurve (Anna) or overcurve (Kagetsu). Variety is the spice of life

Like Kagetsu is a great unit but great units existing is not a design flaw. I love having some units who I have to put some work into and maybe even get disappointed by, and having some who I can just hit deploy on and set them to work. I like intentionally telling the game "nah I'm good" when they hand me something to carry me, and I also like using the cool powerful unit they hand me. These are all fun fire emblem experiences, imo
:same:
there is a certain joy in taking a squishy little weakling and watching them snowball into an unstoppable god of death, and it's completely different from the similarly fun joy of being handed a new toy who comes out of the box already a god of death.

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.
I was wondering what the gently caress you would want to forge Eirika's rune onto, because having a massive Ddg penalty is a pretty major downside for anyone who has to take a counterattack. Or any attack, for that matter.

The answer is Thoron. Citrinne + Seadall is a delete button for any enemy with a single lifebar. She does not miss.

Infinity Gaia
Feb 27, 2011

a storm is coming...

Man, as you progress enemies really start abusing stuff like Chain Attacks against you just as much as you do it against them, huh? I kinda like it, definitely makes juggernauting all but impossible.

Edit: Also regarding reclassing Alear... Why would I ever do that? Why would I ever lose out on my perfect +3 to all stats Bylethbot?

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST
Great Knight Femalear has the ponytail so it's actually her best class.

Augus
Mar 9, 2015


Natural 20 posted:

I've said this in a few places. It's very, very defensive.

You have a murderball or two. You pull enemies carefully into the murderball and kill them with swarms of long range and followup attacks.

Realistically you just can't attack into anything because either you have to expend rescue staff uses that are rare as hell to get the attacking unit out or you have to all in and since most enemies will take 2-3 actions to kill, you'll probably lose the all in without spending engages.

from what i've seen, relying too much on defensive play will only make your life harder on a lot of maddening maps. if you just let the enemies come to you they can completely overwhelm you, the AI has hard counters for a lot of turtling strats

Genovera
Feb 13, 2014

subterranean
space pterodactyls

https://twitter.com/Genovera_SA/status/1618843156514226177?t=PV_pf-CchRsu9u9wkWBDdA&s=19

This was the first time I had him cook. I had to check if he said the same line for other foods too (he does) because it was too perfect.

GreenBuckanneer
Sep 15, 2007

Where should I go to grind levels/gold? How do I do that? I like to steamroll the AI, big number gives the dopamine

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
As someone who's played through FE4 multiple times, seeing not-Julius and not-Ishtar on Sigurd's paralogue map made me so happy. The rest of the map wasn't that complicated (especially since it was the first time I got to use Ivy to Nosferatu-tank; it's fun!), but that was a joyous little moment.

I killed them both, of course. Probably should have done it before activating Sigurd, though! Had to finish the job in a real hurry, but Goddess Dance is very powerful.

Genovera posted:

https://twitter.com/Genovera_SA/status/1618843156514226177?t=PV_pf-CchRsu9u9wkWBDdA&s=19

This was the first time I had him cook. I had to check if he said the same line for other foods too (he does) because it was too perfect.

Amazing.

Sydin
Oct 29, 2011

Another spring commute

Genovera posted:

https://twitter.com/Genovera_SA/status/1618843156514226177?t=PV_pf-CchRsu9u9wkWBDdA&s=19

This was the first time I had him cook. I had to check if he said the same line for other foods too (he does) because it was too perfect.

Nothing beats a jelly filled donut.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

Goddamn 19 is a clever map.

Obligatum VII
May 5, 2014

Haunting you until no 8 arrives.
Tiki Alear is still just breaking the game in half on maddening. Absurdly tanky, absurdly evasive, full heals if you spend a turn waiting, etc. etc. does good damage, doubles consistently, the claws are killer weapons and the breath is a partially defense ignoring AoE.

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Tired Moritz
Mar 25, 2012

wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

(n o i c e)
Engage Hard isn't that hard compared to Conquest Hard.

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