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God, I loving HATE backronyms like that 
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Jan 28, 2023 23:39
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Mechafunkzilla posted:This is already a deeply collapsed framing, though. Are we really fighting for a world where there is just as much economic inequality and oppression, just with a more equitable racial distribution within each class? That would be more fair, I suppose, but not necessarily more just. My real critique isn't towards the NAACP specifically anyway, they're just one organization, their hearts are in the right place, whatever. It's the ideology they are entrenched in. The question isn't what "we" are fighting for, but what black civil rights activists were fighting for. And in general, what they were fighting for was black civil rights. Their approaches varied considerably, but there were plenty who were out there to lift the barriers facing black people specifically. Which makes sense, because they were the ones facing those barriers themselves, personally. And while black families did face economic barriers as well, those barriers were heavily exacerbated by openly discriminatory policies - for example, banks and government agencies offering loans and other financial assistance only to poor white people, while denying it to equally poor non-whites. So it's understandable that at the time they weren't heavily sympathetic toward the social barriers faced by poor white people who, despite still having limited social mobility, still had far more opportunities than black people did. I think solidarity between different groups is good and important. But in the context of this particular conversation, it doesn't necessarily make sense to expect the charge for general social revolution to be led by downtrodden minorities that were not only economically disadvantaged but also politically and socially disenfranchised. The NAACP was founded more than half a century before the Voting Rights Act. Solidarity is important, but it's also important to keep in mind that solidarity is about the more powerful groups helping up the less powerful groups, rather than the other way around. That's the difference between "building a cross-racial coalition for social change" and "comfortable white leftists demanding that black people act as their revolutionary frontline".
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Jan 28, 2023 23:42
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Staluigi posted:FOR THE RECORD i think its worth repeatedly highlighting that the SCORPION unit is 100% out of clearly fictional dystopia being written for the simulation Obviously the Street Crimes Operation is being shut down because, as shown by their latest Street Crime, the Operation was too successful.
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Jan 29, 2023 00:10
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Main Paineframe posted:The question isn't what "we" are fighting for, but what black civil rights activists were fighting for. And in general, what they were fighting for was black civil rights. Their approaches varied considerably, but there were plenty who were out there to lift the barriers facing black people specifically. Which makes sense, because they were the ones facing those barriers themselves, personally. And while black families did face economic barriers as well, those barriers were heavily exacerbated by openly discriminatory policies - for example, banks and government agencies offering loans and other financial assistance only to poor white people, while denying it to equally poor non-whites. So it's understandable that at the time they weren't heavily sympathetic toward the social barriers faced by poor white people who, despite still having limited social mobility, still had far more opportunities than black people did. I don't see how any of this excuses the NAACP's hostility to grassroots organizing, direct action, labor groups, and their pro-war foreign policy positions in comparison to contemporary civil rights organizations that arguably achieved more with less. Of course, their palatability to white liberals and the lobbying access their politics afforded them in the Truman and Johnson administrations was a big part of why they were incredibly well-resourced (along with organizational discipline and financial management), and if that compromise was worth it could be debated. But don't conflate the NAACP with the civil right movement as a whole. Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 00:25 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 00:23
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Staluigi posted:it stands for Street Crimes Operation to Restore Peace In Our Neighborhoods Charles Dickens would have rejected that name for making the allegory too obvious
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Jan 29, 2023 00:32
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It was either named by someone who was really oblivious and without any sense of irony toward their crimes or someone extremely into making Riddler-esque nods in the exact direction of their crimes.
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Jan 29, 2023 00:39
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BLM the movement is great BLM the organization is horrible The NAACP is good to a point as they still willfully operate using incrementalism and endorse police "reform". Looking at the collaborative agreement they have with the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives, what they want is an independent organization that acts a check against police. It would definitely have some positive effects however it doesn't address the systemic issues at hand. To put it simply, they seek to reform the system, not dismantle it.
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Jan 29, 2023 00:53
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I AM GRANDO posted:It was either named by someone who was really oblivious and without any sense of irony toward their crimes or someone extremely into making Riddler-esque nods in the exact direction of their crimes. It was 100% named because someone wanted to use an animal with a stinger for their super cool cop unit that totally was going to do stings on crime. Except all the bee adjacent animals they thought of were "too gay" and scorpions were the first cool animal name that got thrown out. It being a dystopian as all gently caress name for a police unit is in line with all the other dystopian as gently caress police units spread across the land. Because we've purposefully created a culture where they believe movie crime violence is around every corner and lurking at every stop. Godless predators walk out streets, and it's the job of the police to hunt them down to save the ungrateful public from them.
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Jan 29, 2023 01:27
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Steeped in middle-class respectability politics from its inception, it's an organization that has been purging leftists and aligning with liberal hegemony to undermine systemic change and class consciousness for a century at this point. The PDF is a book by a U of C poli sci professor about the history (and erasure) of black radical politics in the US. If UChicago can do good work (like enabling this professor to publish his book) even with its history, then the NAACP can certainly do good work even with its history, which is full of liberal equivocation and failures to seize high-potential opportunities but not 1/100th as downright evil as UChicago has been in its neighborhood and on the global stage.
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Jan 29, 2023 01:46
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Main Paineframe posted:"comfortable white leftists demanding that black people act as their revolutionary frontline". This talking point keeps coming up and I think it very much needs receipts at this point. Especially since it's literally just Republican propaganda.
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Jan 29, 2023 08:00
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theCalamity posted:BLM the movement is great It is kinda funny that someone just make an organization called Black Lives Matter assuming people would just give it a lot of money just because of the name and it worked. As I understand it they operate a lot like that "for the troops" charity Sean Hannity ran that mostly went to his personal expenses.
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Jan 29, 2023 17:26
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Republicans posted:It is kinda funny that someone just make an organization called Black Lives Matter assuming people would just give it a lot of money just because of the name and it worked. As I understand it they operate a lot like that "for the troops" charity Sean Hannity ran that mostly went to his personal expenses. Gives me an idea: anyone want to join the official Antifa? We're taking dinations
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Jan 29, 2023 19:03
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Jesus III posted:Gives me an idea: anyone want to join the official Antifa? We're taking dinations What color is your hat?
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Jan 29, 2023 21:24
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Silly Burrito posted:What color is your hat? Our gift shop has multiple options.
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Jan 30, 2023 00:17
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Phone posting so forgive any mistakes but is Ilhan Omar ignorant or just stupidquote:I wasn’t aware of the fact that there are tropes about Jews and money Tropes about jews and money??? I am positively flabbergasted at this new occurrence
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Jan 30, 2023 03:47
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The accusations against Omar for being antisemitic were bad faith bullshit years ago when it happened and they're still bad faith bullshit when they get dragged back up now.
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Jan 30, 2023 03:56
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From the article it sounded like she is learning and willing to admit to mistakes so whatever. I really get the feeling that the republicans are trying to make a point that she is some unrepentant anti-Semite to discredit her and it doesn't really matter what she says or does.
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Jan 30, 2023 04:03
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The stupid thing she did was apologizing. Like no one's ever allowed to talk about money and anything Jewish or else it's antisemitic Can't ask your Jewish friend to pitch in for gas that's assuming he has money and therefore antisemitic. Economists have to all pretend Israel doesn't exist and God help you if you ever try to find a bank in Israel you better not ask anyone.
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Jan 30, 2023 04:09
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The Republican party having an actual, for-real problem with Anti-semitism is definitely something that would be news to a significant portion of the Republican base.
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Jan 30, 2023 04:23
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:Phone posting so forgive any mistakes but is Ilhan Omar ignorant or just stupid I'd roll my eyes at this from someone born in America, but considering the extent to which she has bent over backwards to apologize for her comments and her general social progressivism, I'm at least willing to consider the possibility that someone from Somalia isn't as up-to-speed on the stereotypes as those of us from the country with the second-largest Jewish population in the world.
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Jan 30, 2023 04:31
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BrainDance posted:The stupid thing she did was apologizing. Republicans don’t have to apologize for far worse poo poo
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Jan 30, 2023 04:33
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Criticizing Israel and antisemitism are extremely different things. The Israel lobby is one of the more aggressively antisemitic institutions in America. The republican position on American jews is basically that they should all be sent to israel. Israel itself seems to hate American jews at least half as much as it hates palestinians, if not as much.
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Jan 30, 2023 04:40
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Sir Kodiak posted:I'd roll my eyes at this from someone born in America, but considering the extent to which she has bent over backwards to apologize for her comments and her general social progressivism, I'm at least willing to consider the possibility that someone from Somalia isn't as up-to-speed on the stereotypes as those of us from the country with the second-largest Jewish population in the world. You think someone who's lived in the US for 25+ years wouldn't know that trope? I agree about her not needing to defend herself but to claim ignorance about such a worn out trope is just silly.
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Jan 30, 2023 05:01
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No, I think it's possible that she didn't, which is not the same thing as expecting her not to. People are surprisingly ignorant all the time, and she would have a better excuse than most. Feel free to think it's literally impossible, but I don't think that's how people work.
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Jan 30, 2023 05:10
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I mean I've lived in the US all of my 36 years and I don't know what hypnotized has to do with Jewish people.
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Jan 30, 2023 05:15
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So what even is the point of this GOP sales tax thing anyway. As in how exactly do they ever plan to have this unserious legislation pass like ever. I'm not entirely convinced it even makes it through the house and if it does its 99.9% dead in the senate and even if by some absolute miracle it makes it through theres old Joe with the Veto so like.....I guess the GOP really has gotten used to losing. Fits well with the whole victimhood narrative thing. drat Democrats with their Senate majority and President being super unfair to us in the house not letting us pass our stupid middle class/below poverty line voter tax hike.
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Jan 30, 2023 05:40
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whos that broooown posted:I mean I've lived in the US all of my 36 years and I don't know what hypnotized has to do with Jewish people. Me neither, so I googled it, it is apparently the plot of a Nazi film? Which I have never seen because I don't go out of my way to watch Nazi propaganda. It makes me think about the same kind of issue with China. There's a lot of racism almost inherent in the way Western sources and politicians talk about China. There's a lot of anti-semitism too, just like that, and it shows up everywhere, subtle and explicit. But, especially when it's an accusation coming from the central government in China its not that, it's about the government not a person but the accusation will word it as if an attack in the Chinese government is an attack on a Chinese person, and it's talking about China the way any other country is talked about not in some particular to China way. In that article the dudes issue is kinda the same thing, they say; "But the biggest “Jew” today in the demonology of modern anti-Semitism is the Jewish state, Israel. " And, no? Israel is not a Jew, it's a state. That's not the same thing in this situation. It can be, you can do antisemitism with Israel as the target, but here she's talking about Israel as the state and about their actions as a state, not as Jewish. So the conclusion then is you're not allowed to talk about Israel in the way you talk about any other state, which is bullshit. I think the real issue is, is that, why does Ilhan Omar always get accusations of antisemitism every time she sneezes and it sounds vaguely like "Israel?" Ilhan Omar, one of two Muslims in Congress.
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Jan 30, 2023 05:54
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The antisemitism accusations against Omar are bad faith but it's always Omar. Tlaib is also Muslim and a squad member and doesn't get nearly the same level of dumb gotchas, or almost lose primaries and underperform by huge margins. I think the simple explanation is that Omar (or her staff) is just not as good at politics. Which is fine, the Democrat is never going to lose her district and if it weren't Omar Fox News would run the same segments with someone else.
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Jan 30, 2023 05:55
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It's the same reason they used them against Corbyn and even tried against Bernie, the massive bipartisan push to demonise leftists has to reach for any ammo it can find and bad faith accusations of antisemitism for thinking Palestinians are humans is something that sometimes works. So many supposed stereotypes, talking points and standards are literally made up to apply solely to leftists and then never mentioned again.
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Jan 30, 2023 06:24
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Wasn't Omar having some takes about not putting sanctions on Russia? If there was anything to criticize her over you would think it would be that.
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Jan 30, 2023 07:18
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Kale posted:So what even is the point of this GOP sales tax thing anyway. As in how exactly do they ever plan to have this unserious legislation pass like ever. I'm not entirely convinced it even makes it through the house and if it does its 99.9% dead in the senate and even if by some absolute miracle it makes it through theres old Joe with the Veto so like.....I guess the GOP really has gotten used to losing. Fits well with the whole victimhood narrative thing. drat Democrats with their Senate majority and President being super unfair to us in the house not letting us pass our stupid middle class/below poverty line voter tax hike. The bill was written by one of the Freedom Caucus members, and he demanded that McCarthy put his bill to a vote in exchange for him supporting McCarthy as Speaker. The GOP majority is slim enough that McCarthy couldn't afford to say no, he had to agree to some dumb crap like this in order to become Speaker. There's no way it passes, and even the GOP probably won't really back it.
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Jan 30, 2023 08:07
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Madkal posted:Wasn't Omar having some takes about not putting sanctions on Russia? If there was anything to criticize her over you would think it would be that. She was in favor of targeted sanctions towards Putin, the Russian military, and his cadre of oligarchs, but didn't approve of broad-based sanctions that would hurt the general population of Russia economically, most of whom have nothing to do with this war. Though she did applaud the Biden Administration's meager humanitarian carveouts from the sanctions package while acknowledging that they still weren't enough to really make a difference. But yeah, that's easy to twist into "I don't support sanctions on Russia, period" by enterprising assholes.
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Jan 30, 2023 09:21
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Ghost Leviathan posted:It's the same reason they used them against Corbyn and even tried against Bernie, the massive bipartisan push to demonise leftists has to reach for any ammo it can find and bad faith accusations of antisemitism for thinking Palestinians are humans is something that sometimes works. So many supposed stereotypes, talking points and standards are literally made up to apply solely to leftists and then never mentioned again. It's mostly because leftists are the only ones who they work on. Or in other words: BrainDance posted:The stupid thing she did was apologizing.
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Jan 30, 2023 11:23
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James Garfield posted:The antisemitism accusations against Omar are bad faith but it's always Omar. Tlaib is also Muslim and a squad member and doesn't get nearly the same level of dumb gotchas, or almost lose primaries and underperform by huge margins. I think the simple explanation is that Omar (or her staff) is just not as good at politics. Omar not being good at politics certainly doesn't help, but it is not the primary driver of her underperforming.
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Jan 30, 2023 11:37
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:You think someone who's lived in the US for 25+ years wouldn't know that trope? the trope about aipac existing?
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Jan 30, 2023 11:48
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Kale posted:So what even is the point of this GOP sales tax thing anyway. As in how exactly do they ever plan to have this unserious legislation pass like ever. I'm not entirely convinced it even makes it through the house and if it does its 99.9% dead in the senate and even if by some absolute miracle it makes it through theres old Joe with the Veto so like.....I guess the GOP really has gotten used to losing. Fits well with the whole victimhood narrative thing. drat Democrats with their Senate majority and President being super unfair to us in the house not letting us pass our stupid middle class/below poverty line voter tax hike. In a normal situation where the House has no real power to actually do anything, a non-braindead Speaker and leadership would use their time to ram through dumbass bills that are designed purely to put the other party on record as being against Puppies, Apple Pie, and Tiny American Flags. As such any bills they pass should be examined from the two lenses of what are they trying to tell their base and what are they trying to tell the other party's base. In this case however, the entirety of the Majority is run by total loving idiots who built their authority by desperately begging and giving in to any demand of their members. As such every bill could be some half-cocked stratagem, an actual thing they want, posturing, or just the pet project of some rando Republican who McCarthy tried to sell his grandfather's watch to in an attempt to appease them. Keep in mind that the Senate isn't doing much better with their big brained Republicans. Otherwise Hawley's idiotic PELOSI Act wouldn't be so pathetically lame. So for at least the next two years it's dealer's choice on whether any bill proposed by the GOP is the idiotic chess move of the group or just the idiotic checkers move of an individual.
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Jan 30, 2023 12:09
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Kale posted:So what even is the point of this GOP sales tax thing anyway. As in how exactly do they ever plan to have this unserious legislation pass like ever. I'm not entirely convinced it even makes it through the house and if it does its 99.9% dead in the senate and even if by some absolute miracle it makes it through theres old Joe with the Veto so like.....I guess the GOP really has gotten used to losing. Fits well with the whole victimhood narrative thing. drat Democrats with their Senate majority and President being super unfair to us in the house not letting us pass our stupid middle class/below poverty line voter tax hike. It's just a certain flavor of libertarian pro-business Republican's favorite type of large tax cut for the rich. They prefer to tax consumption vs. income because earning money is associated with providing some benefit or service, so taxing it is bad because it punishes people who achieve more. It also has the bonus of raising revenue by making the tax code more regressive so "everyone has some skin in the game" when it comes to taxes. It also comes with the handy talking point about "abolishing" the IRS. It will likely only barely get half the Republican caucus to vote for it in the House. The last time it was introduced, it had 89 co-sponsors.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:50
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the trope about aipac existing? The anti-Semitism attacks against her all entirely in bad faith (she was originally talking about lobbyists specifically and worded it very poorly), but using "I didn't realize there were tropes about Jews and money" as your defense is an incredibly dumb thing to say. It comes off as either a very obvious defensive lie or an admission that you are really really naïve.
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Jan 30, 2023 14:55
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Staluigi posted:
The parable of the Frog and the SCORPION unit.
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Jan 30, 2023 16:41
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Gyges posted:In a normal situation where the House has no real power to actually do anything, a non-braindead Speaker and leadership would use their time to ram through dumbass bills that are designed purely to put the other party on record as being against Puppies, Apple Pie, and Tiny American Flags. As such any bills they pass should be examined from the two lenses of what are they trying to tell their base and what are they trying to tell the other party's base. Yeah its already looking like yet another cycle of relying on RWM and propaganda rather than legislation to carry them through to the 2024 election.
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Jan 30, 2023 16:48
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