|
SettingSun posted:I recall an interview with the director of P3 and he said two notable things: the dev team didn't consider that people would want to do all the s-links in a single game so the design is hostile to the idea I actually really liked this about Persona 3 and wish they'd kept it going forwards. I know there's definitely a segment of people that will do literally whatever it takes to have everything 100% in a single run, no matter how much it sucks playing that way though (see FFX-2 as a good example) so I definitely see why they changed it, but I love the idea of it being not really possible to just get 100% in a single session and would be totally down with that being a design choice in P6, including all the reversing and everything so that every run is a little different. Like some sort of.. rogue-lite hybrid social sim/jRPG But if they went back to that design they'd have to make the games significantly shorter I think, asking players to do multiple 100+ hour playthroughs of a game if they want everything in a single run is sorta extreme
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 14:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:54 |
|
|
Weird Pumpkin posted:I actually really liked this about Persona 3 and wish they'd kept it going forwards. I know there's definitely a segment of people that will do literally whatever it takes to have everything 100% in a single run, no matter how much it sucks playing that way though (see FFX-2 as a good example) so I definitely see why they changed it, but I love the idea of it being not really possible to just get 100% in a single session and would be totally down with that being a design choice in P6, including all the reversing and everything so that every run is a little different. Like some sort of.. rogue-lite hybrid social sim/jRPG Your last paragraph is exactly it. I don't 100% every game I play, but for games that are part of a franchise I like, I usually do. If I really like a game I will go back and play again, working towards whatever constitutes "mastery" for that particular game. But that being said, for a first playthrough of most things (and in particular games that have content that you have to actively uncover, and is missable), I usually just want to see everything. But in P5R, that was 110 hours. Completely unreasonable to ask me to play again to finish trophies. Ironically, I actually DID miss one (the Maid Cafe one), and I have been slowly working my way thru another playthrough up until I get get to that point. But yes. Game is LONG, and I had absolutely zero interest in playing it again until maybe a month ago - and I finished it when it first came out. Don't get me wrong - I absolutely LOVED it, but like any game that long, fatigue was definitely setting in towards the end. There have been 100% folks (like me) since Trophies became a thing, so it's odd to me that they "didn't think ppl would do that" on their 60 hour game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 15:04
|
|
|
I have never visited the Maid Café and I never will; I find it satisfying to fill in cheevo walls and conspicuously leaving certain ones blank. Also I somehow had max charm before even unlocking Akahibara and I'm not even sure how. As for not humoring people, I always appreciate how Futaba never appreciates being told it's okay to back off because she wants to push her boundaries. Still gonna pick the options, though, because I think it makes for a much healthier dynamic. And some of these social links in persona 3 suck and that's okay, I'm just not gonna be friends with these people! Sorry emperor personas, you're not gonna get buffs this game. I actually like Junpei's first few levels at least; they are aggressively platonic and it's a nice break from the rest of his character.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 15:16
|
|
|
You should go at least once because it unlocks an evening excursion for the twins there, and doing all of those before the deadline is also worthwhile since you get some bonus scenes later on in the game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 15:42
|
|
|
Just got to Naoto in P4G, and by God they wanted to fumble as many social issues as possible, didn't they? That said, it wasn't handled well by any stretch of the imagination, but I guess, at least, Naoto isn't implied to be some weird deviant or predator so far; it could have been much worse. There's still time, though! Heck, I don't think that Kanji proudly proclaimed he isn't gay because he was "totally crushing on a woman not a guy" or whatever, but I assume that's a "yet." Sigh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 16:22
|
|
|
How is the upgrade patch for P4G on PC? Played it originally in 2020. Is it simply performance/bugfixes? It's got a 96% for recent reviews on Steam, so that probably answers my question already but I thought Id ask here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 16:56
|
|
|
Prowler posted:Just got to Naoto in P4G, and by God they wanted to fumble as many social issues as possible, didn't they? That said, it wasn't handled well by any stretch of the imagination, but I guess, at least, Naoto isn't implied to be some weird deviant or predator so far; it could have been much worse. There's still time, though! Heck, I don't think that Kanji proudly proclaimed he isn't gay because he was "totally crushing on a woman not a guy" or whatever, but I assume that's a "yet." This is pretty much exactly where I'm at in my P4G playthrough atm and I'm waiting for that spoilered foot to drop as well lol
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 17:04
|
|
|
MechaX posted:The Yosuke talk definitely unlocked a late-game memory for me (giant endgame P4 spoilers): I wonder how his “let’s commit first degree murder because of stuff this guy’s shadow is telling us” angle aged at this point He's being emotional and a bit crazy due to Nanako apparently dying (very understandable, IMO) but the important part is that it was Naoto who calmly suggests the actual murder method. An important detail Yosuke haters tend to ignore.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 17:22
|
|
|
Naoto's pretty cool when they're not being an answer sheet for the main mystery
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 17:28
|
|
|
Yosuke is canonically offputting. Chie had to stop hanging out with him because he was too horny around her friends, his whole slink is being super emo because everyone likes Yu and no one likes him and he kind of gets it. Being unlikeable/unliked is core to his character (remember how the game opens, that girl yosuke likes dies and it turns out she thought yosuke sucked and he's devastated) which is why his taking in Teddie the way he does is such a shock, its the biggest pain in the rear end thing anyone does and he doesnt even question it. Not sure where I'm going with this, I guess I'm mentioning it cause the game doesnt make being Yosuke look like fun, he's a very real sort of character to me but it's not like his personality is working out for him. No Wave fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Jan 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 17:35
|
|
|
I kinda read a lot of the P4 characters' arcs as saying that it's okay to like girly things and still be a heterosexual man, and it's okay to like sporty or intellectual traditionally-male pursuits and still be a heterosexual woman. That applies to Kanji and Naoto of course but it also applies to Chie and it's something that Yosuke would do well to understand as well. Finding and accepting your own identity instead of bending it into some sort of package deal imposed by society seems to be a recurring topic. Then again Yukiko's whole deal is that she sucks at being traditionally feminine but ... decides to get better at it and comply with the social expectations imposed on her so uh, yeah. The writing could definitely have handled it better though, especially the part where Kanji is scared of his attraction to a male-presenting person but then everything was fine all along because that person turns out to be a woman. The narrative device itself is icky and undermines the story's broader message.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 17:43
|
|
|
For P4's character arcs, having it be "I have asked a big question about my identity, and it turns out the answer is 'no, I am who I originally thought I was'" might be cool once, but having it be most of your party is pretty uncool, I feel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 18:54
|
|
|
Red Minjo posted:For P4's character arcs, having it be "I have asked a big question about my identity, and it turns out the answer is 'no, I am who I originally thought I was'" might be cool once, but having it be most of your party is pretty uncool, I feel. I can agree with this, although the fact Yukiko got criticized most for it never made sense to me. Ever since I joined the fandom I saw her S Link get the most criticism for this. But to me, it was so incredibly realistic. Here we have an older teenager on the cusp of young adulthood. She feels trapped by a life she never chose, bound in by people who want her to be something she isn't. If she could only get away she could find herself. Only....running away from the people who love and care about you isn't going to help you find yourself. Your family, your roots, that is an important part of who you are. Maybe you didn't choose it but that also doesn't mean it's forced on you. You can be perfectly happy in the life you were born into, particularly if you're blessed like she was with a huge group of people who care about you. Her S Link is about realizing that instead of pursuing a childish rebellion. I liked it a lot. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jan 30, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:14
|
|
|
I think it's because Yukiko's dungeon was entirely about how trapped she felt by the inn and how she wanted to leave, so her deciding otherwise seems to directly go against her dungeon.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:19
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:He's being emotional and a bit crazy due to Nanako apparently dying (very understandable, IMO) but the important part is that it was Naoto who calmly suggests the actual murder method. That's... that's still murder 1st, but I'll revisit this issue when I get back to that part of the game
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:21
|
|
|
How would it have aged badly though? It's not really particularly problematic in the usual way that things don't age well. The fact that it's wrong to murder someone extrajudicially but the person they're debating killing is also unlikely to be punished because their crime was weird Persona other world stuff is why there's any tension at all in the choice/scene? If anything it's a bit cliche but in and off itself it's done reasonably well I feel if you go in unspoiled that there is more to the game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:35
|
|
|
Prowler posted:Just got to Naoto in P4G, and by God they wanted to fumble as many social issues as possible, didn't they? That said, it wasn't handled well by any stretch of the imagination, but I guess, at least, Naoto isn't implied to be some weird deviant or predator so far; it could have been much worse. There's still time, though! Heck, I don't think that Kanji proudly proclaimed he isn't gay because he was "totally crushing on a woman not a guy" or whatever, but I assume that's a "yet." I feel like yeah despite Naoto being my fav character the original SL was really weird. There has been an attempt to fix this with a mod that switched some of the right answers around and was less manipulative of Yu towards her during events. Also, Yosuke mod and an extra fix where they change his behavior at the camping trip towards Kanji but I haven't played P4G on PC yet with mods. I can only hope for the best results now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
HaB posted:I could see this, based on a date I had with Chihiro. It's the one shortly after she's accused of being a thief, and I picked whatever the non-committal response was and she got BIG mad, and it said like "your relationship is strained" or something. And I was like wha? Oh, yeah. That date is bullshit. You say something to the effect of "is there really a thief?" and she's like "HOW DARE YOU!" when you aren't even accusing her but more "is it really true?" as a response. You have to pick the third one (forgetting) to get 3 notes and then give her the gift as normal.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 21:39
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I think it's because Yukiko's dungeon was entirely about how trapped she felt by the inn and how she wanted to leave, so her deciding otherwise seems to directly go against her dungeon. Yeah I'm confused about some of the Yukiko takes ITT because this is what I took away: Everyone's perception of Yukiko is that she's this caged bird and she rejects to to be the only one besides Yu that we know leaves Inaba
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 22:01
|
|
|
She doesn't leave Inaba, unless that's something I'm forgetting from PQ2.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 23:37
|
|
|
AnonymouseNo5 posted:She doesn't leave Inaba, unless that's something I'm forgetting from PQ2. Persona 5 Spoilers: I thought she for sure stayed with the Amagi Inn, one of the TV programs referenced her
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 23:40
|
|
|
I thought She became a weather person?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 23:42
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:I thought She became a weather person? That's Marie
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
MechaX posted:The Yosuke talk definitely unlocked a late-game memory for me (giant endgame P4 spoilers): I wonder how his “let’s commit first degree murder because of stuff this guy’s shadow is telling us” angle aged at this point That’s one of the cooler parts about Yosuke (and Naoto) tbh
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 00:07
|
|
|
Weird Pumpkin posted:I actually really liked this about Persona 3 and wish they'd kept it going forwards. I know there's definitely a segment of people that will do literally whatever it takes to have everything 100% in a single run, no matter how much it sucks playing that way though (see FFX-2 as a good example) so I definitely see why they changed it, but I love the idea of it being not really possible to just get 100% in a single session and would be totally down with that being a design choice in P6, including all the reversing and everything so that every run is a little different. Like some sort of.. rogue-lite hybrid social sim/jRPG That's mostly a different type of storytelling. In order to get the choice based stories to work that way you need endings that are more different than those of Mass Effect 3. It's not the length of the game; Witcher 3 manages to lock out e.g. one of the two romances with it not feeling wrong while being a 50 hour game. But the Witcher 3 has three endings for Ciri, three for Geralt's romance, three for who rules the North, three who rules Skellige, and two for how the Baron ends up. And all except the last have major future implications for the world rather than just the person concerned. Meanwhile how far you take the S-links doesn't even affect the cut scenes other than on Valentine's Day and advancing the S-links is almost universally positive for the person you completed them with.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 01:02
|
|
|
Maybe it's because I've been playing a lot of Ace Attorney and watching a lot of Law & Order lately but wouldn't it be manslaughter instead of murder? They're responding to the apparent murder of a child they're all very close to, they are clearly very distraught and emotional, Yosuke most of all. and IIRC Dojima almost kills Namatame first but is stopped and that's how they get in to see him at all. If a middle-aged man is ready to commit the crime, what can we expect of devastated 16-year-olds? I'm honestly not trying to be a pedantic rear end in a top hat, I'm genuinely curious which it would be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 01:03
|
|
|
It’s much cooler if it’s murder.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 01:05
|
|
|
It's only manslaughter if you believe them it was an accident and also that what they're doing it's illegal. But they've decided changing hearts is illegal and death, even accidental, is a foreseeable consequence of it. That makes it felony murder in America. Idk what they decide in Japan. Trial by combat?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 01:18
|
|
|
I mean what is fighting Shido if not a judicial Duel?
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 01:19
|
|
|
I do like how in the alternate epilogue scene Dojima all but says he knows you did something to Namatame that killed him, and he supports you for doing so. It's supremely hosed up but also like, yeah that's exactly the level Dojima would be on if he actually lost Nanako.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 01:31
|
|
|
HootTheOwl posted:I mean what is fighting Shido if not a judicial Duel? They should have televised that final fight and used it for grounds that since they beat the prime minster they are now the ruling party.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 01:31
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Maybe it's because I've been playing a lot of Ace Attorney and watching a lot of Law & Order lately but wouldn't it be manslaughter instead of murder? They're responding to the apparent murder of a child they're all very close to, they are clearly very distraught and emotional, Yosuke most of all. and IIRC Dojima almost kills Namatame first but is stopped and that's how they get in to see him at all. If a middle-aged man is ready to commit the crime, what can we expect of devastated 16-year-olds? If you genuinely want to know, at least in almost every court in the US, the answer is no, it would still be murder. A lot of killings are done when someone is distraught and emotional, but the key that separates first degree murder from lesser murders, or even voluntary manslaughter, is deliberation and premeditation. They reasoned out a whole rear end scheme on how to deal with Namatame and left him in there for a prolonged period of time despite knowing that only they could have actually entered the TV to attempt to rescue him, and that death was 100% assured if they didn't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 02:35
|
|
|
Hunt11 posted:They should have televised that final fight and used it for grounds that since they beat the prime minster they are now the ruling party. Unfortunately cameras (or at least cameras on phones with the Metaverse Navigator installed) don't work in the Metaverse. Probably because uploading 30 seconds of Shadow Kamoshida footage online would've removed any need to change his heart to get rid of him. This does make me wonder how Futaba manages to get everyone's likenesses recorded in Phantom Thief attire for the stuff she puts out though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 02:40
|
|
|
Shyrka posted:Unfortunately cameras (or at least cameras on phones with the Metaverse Navigator installed) don't work in the Metaverse. They made the costumes in real life (or it's an anime segment which means that it was made before the story was finalised).
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 02:46
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:Maybe it's because I've been playing a lot of Ace Attorney and watching a lot of Law & Order lately but wouldn't it be manslaughter instead of murder? They're responding to the apparent murder of a child they're all very close to, they are clearly very distraught and emotional, Yosuke most of all. and IIRC Dojima almost kills Namatame first but is stopped and that's how they get in to see him at all. If a middle-aged man is ready to commit the crime, what can we expect of devastated 16-year-olds? I think second degree murder? In this case it would have been intentional/planned, which is normally first degree, but I think that the extreme emotional disturbance can be used as a defense knocking it down to second degree. I think it varies by the area's specific laws. I was actually on a jury for an attempted murder* a few years back (though I was selected as an alternate immediately before deliberations began so I didn't get to affect the outcome - which was honestly kind of a relief). I could definitely be misremembering the way it defined each type of crime, though. * A guy shot at another guy a bunch, fortunately only hitting him in the leg once - the CCTV footage was wild, you see the gunner chasing the other guy around this store and firing his gun (no sound, though), and at one point you see a soft drink bottle start spraying everywhere (because a bullet hit it)
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 03:08
|
|
|
MechaX posted:If you genuinely want to know, at least in almost every court in the US, the answer is no, it would still be murder. A lot of killings are done when someone is distraught and emotional, but the key that separates first degree murder from lesser murders, or even voluntary manslaughter, is deliberation and premeditation. They reasoned out a whole rear end scheme on how to deal with Namatame and left him in there for a prolonged period of time despite knowing that only they could have actually entered the TV to attempt to rescue him, and that death was 100% assured if they didn't. Ytlaya posted:I think second degree murder? In this case it would have been intentional/planned, which is normally first degree, but I think that the extreme emotional disturbance can be used as a defense knocking it down to second degree. I think it varies by the area's specific laws. I didn't think about the fact it isn't an instant death, like throwing somebody off a cliff or down some stairs. The manslaughter example I've always heard used is "finding your spouse in bed with their lover and you just snap and kill them." That felt pretty analogous to Nanako being murdered and then killing her killer. But as you say, death in the TV World is something slow and they would have had time to cool down, rethink, and go save him. And yes I know death in the TV world takes time is a core part of the game. I'm dumb. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jan 31, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 03:13
|
|
|
Third degree murder is kind of a weird catch all that isn't even recognized in a lot of places. Generally speaking first degree murder is a killing undertaken with intent, malice, and premeditation over a long enough time period that it can't be classified as a "heat of the moment" plan. Second degree murder is accidentally killing somebody in the course of other illegal activity (shooting somebody while performing a robbery, beating the poo poo out of somebody and accidentally killing them in the process, etc). Manslaughter can be voluntary (intentionally killing somebody with no premeditation, such as the aforementioned killing your partner's lover after catching them in bed) involuntary (essentially killing somebody via negligence or cognizant inaction) or vehicular (self-explanatory). At least by US legal standards, killing Namatame would given the circumstances almost certainly be classified as voluntary manslaughter. Granted, I guess you could also argue that the group knowing Namatame won't die for some time and never going back to get him after they cooled off could up it to first degree murder.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 04:40
|
|
|
Sydin posted:At least by US legal standards, killing Namatame would given the circumstances almost certainly be classified as voluntary manslaughter. Granted, I guess you could also argue that the group knowing Namatame won't die for some time and never going back to get him after they cooled off could up it to first degree murder. So one of my law school professors always taught that premeditation is something that can happen a lot quicker than anyone realizes. Like there have been convictions that have held up because premeditation happened as short as 15-20 seconds (and the test is just to sit there and count to 15 or 20; depending on the circumstances that can be a long rear end time to just think on something). In this situation, not only did they never go back to get him for what could have been a week or two, but they very much made a scheme and even argued back and forth about it. That goes well, well beyond heat of the moment/passion-situations (and again, a lot of murder 1sts are done by very angry and emotional people). Nanako's situation is a defense sure, mitigating circumstance most definitely, but under the totality of the situation.. that's going to be a pretty hard case to make Now on a random tangent when thinking of Persona 2 in this context: every person the IS/EP crew killed was in reasonable self-defense because corrupt cops/soldiers/literal Nazis shot first or attacked them with mech suits. MechaX fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 31, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 04:49
|
|
|
Holy crap, the floor 59 boss. Rage? Doubles it's attack and one-shots. MARIN KARIN! awesomeemoji.jpg Resisted. Poison? Resisted. I'm level 22. Apparently you're supposed to be able to do this battle at level 20-21 in Portable, which seems crazy on Normal. Maybe my Personae aren't fused right, but Akihiko only have Zio, while Mitsuru is the only medium damage right now seems crazy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 05:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 13:54 |
|
|
I honestly feel like I genuinely laughed more at the jokes and situations in Persona 2 than the later series comedic moments, and I wonder if it's because of my own bias for it or if the comedy of the later games is just not as interesting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 31, 2023 05:45
|
|
