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Happy Noodle Boy posted:“We will tread on you” loving lol. “Subtext is for loving cowards. “ - James Cameron, making his third 2 billion movie. That's literally the kinda poo poo ooh-rah operators wear on their patches.
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Jan 30, 2023 02:55
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that is because earth is Pandora and we are the Na'vi
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Jan 30, 2023 02:56
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Was in a fish and chip shop grabbing lunch today and a (presumably) regular customer came in and got talking to the owners and staff about stuff and discussed avatar for a few minutes, saying he'd seen it twice and two of the women behind the counter trying to convince their elderly boss to go see it as well soon. So regular non-online people like it, as evidenced by the boxoffice. Awed at the technical achievement and also agreeing that despite it being long it goes by quickly. I just sat in the corner and listened but this has mainstream appeal and is still going strong. Edit: The bloke who walked in and brought it up said it has a 'great theme for family and a good message" so people are taking it in, not just action and pretty colours. drunkill fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 04:54
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Avatar one story was forgettable but it wouldn’t have made so much money if people didn’t see something in it. Even most grouchiest critics had some fun with the new one. Just the sheer amount of money and crazy poo poo that went into it deserves some recognition. I don’t know for sure but I bet the water CGI helps move VFX forward.
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Jan 30, 2023 06:06
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FunkyAl posted:Where does a clone get programmed with a desire to have a son? The answer is that he wasn’t programmed with it at all. Quarritch 1 didn’t care about Miles one bit, so Quarritch 2’s need for a son is related to his specific experience of being a clone - that is, of being pooped out of a tube with fictive memories and told to just go along with it. This is another point where Cameron drops the ball, because these Avatars are extremely expensive! Somebody in the company would have already thought these issues through - trained psychologists and whatnot, working to prevent the exact scenario we see in the film. The fact that they don’t makes RDA into a straw-man. And, again, what does Quarritch 2 eat? Is he paid for his work, or is he a slave? This stuff is important!
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Jan 30, 2023 08:38
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FunkyAl posted:Where does a clone get programmed with a desire to have a son? On Kamino
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Jan 30, 2023 09:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The answer is that he wasn’t programmed with it at all. It is quite probable they have these resources, but does quaritch seem like the kind of na'vi that would listen to a psychiatrist? And, in real life, do the mental health services provided by the military always help veterans and soldiers in the way they're intended to? You do have a point that certain questions aren't being asked or answered. But I do think there are a lot of images present nobody in the story talks about that are building sufficient context. My guess is that quaratch is a slave, or "company property," but given the massive amounts of money being spent on starships versus the earth jake left behind, is the distinction important? Is jake not just a slave who traded his freedom for legs?
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Jan 30, 2023 18:21
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Here's an article to get mad about, if you want https://twitter.com/alex_abads/status/1620104436604616704 (it's a clickbait headline but the article is interesting)
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Jan 30, 2023 19:33
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Ultimately, SMG is just another "everything is a plothole" guy, with some po-mo frills thrown on top. If JC had decided to include a 45min sequence of Quarritch 2 learning how to hunt Pandoran wildlife and all the other extraneous detail he supposedly wants to see on screen, that would also be subject to criticism for different reasons. The important thing is being able to criticise, the actual product is immaterial
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Jan 30, 2023 19:35
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According to the official Wiki, Jake Sully named his Ikran Bob, which is a detail that I appreciate.
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Jan 30, 2023 19:39
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I told a friend my only complaint was where the hell did the water tribe go near the end and he replied "Really?? It didn't bug you they are after whale juice now instead of unobtainium? They have the tech for avatars and to resurrect people as alien hybrids but need whale juice to deal with aging?" All I can say is I fully expect the humans to be after volcanic snail gonads in Avatar 3 since I heard Fire Navi will be featured. There can be different humans wanting different things in different places.
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Jan 30, 2023 19:48
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Kart Barfunkel posted:According to the official Wiki, Jake Sully named his Ikran Bob, which is a detail that I appreciate. Is that a Titan AE reference?
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Jan 30, 2023 19:51
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smug n stuff posted:Here's an article to get mad about, if you want It's an article from Vox. It can't be that interesting.
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Jan 30, 2023 19:51
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Bogus Adventure posted:Is that a Titan AE reference? I don't think so. The name of Sully's Ikran reveal happened during McFarlane's Avatar toy line panel/presentation at SDCC last year lol teagone posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFczYl1Ji3g
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Jan 30, 2023 19:54
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Bogus Adventure posted:Is that a Titan AE reference? Is it? I never saw Titan AE. I figure it was another instance of Jake being a charming dumb-dumb. Like he heard that banshees traditionally get named by their riders and he just picked the very first name that came to mind.
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Jan 30, 2023 19:55
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FunkyAl posted:It is quite probable they have these resources, but does quaritch seem like the kind of na'vi that would listen to a psychiatrist? And, in real life, do the mental health services provided by the military always help veterans and soldiers in the way they're intended to? I think there’s also the assumption that because a company invests a lot of money on a project, they will predict all problems and prepare for them. This is just not the case in reality. There’s the famous nasa screwing up unit conversions, but also think of all the issues military jets and space x rocket programs have had. It’s more likely that companies do not spend money to solve a problem until it occurs. As far as we can tell, Quaritch and company are the first memory uploaded avatar soldiers. There’s going to be mistakes as it’s a development program still.
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Jan 30, 2023 20:24
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smug n stuff posted:Here's an article to get mad about, if you want The new Pauline Kael...
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Jan 30, 2023 20:32
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It took the F-35 program 20 years and 300 billion dollars before they got something that could fly in the rain, high dollar defense contractors taking obscene piles of money to make a space helicopter for another planet that gets consistently owned by anime catgirls with bows and arrows makes perfect sense to me. What the gently caress are the grunts on Pandora gonna do, complain to your corporate board 15 years after the fact? You've already got the money and the immortality juice is already in the cargo hold of a ship on its way back to you, who gives a poo poo?
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 20:34
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bagrada posted:I told a friend my only complaint was where the hell did the water tribe go near the end and he replied "Really?? It didn't bug you they are after whale juice now instead of unobtainium? They have the tech for avatars and to resurrect people as alien hybrids but need whale juice to deal with aging?" All I can say is I fully expect the humans to be after volcanic snail gonads in Avatar 3 since I heard Fire Navi will be featured. There can be different humans wanting different things in different places. They didn't resurrect Quarritch. The dude died. There's a human/Na'vi clone with his memories. A rich old gently caress doesn't care that a younger version of them is running around with their memories. They want to live forever.
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Jan 30, 2023 20:55
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It is kind of weird that the antagonists ostensibly after immortality juice seemingly have no interest in how Jake Sully fully transferred to a new body.
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Jan 30, 2023 21:02
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YaketySass posted:It is kind of weird that the antagonists ostensibly after immortality juice seemingly have no interest in how Jake Sully fully transferred to a new body. The humans have developed their own process to do so, but it's the "affront to nature" Hugh Jackman method from The Prestige.
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Jan 30, 2023 21:12
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YaketySass posted:It is kind of weird that the antagonists ostensibly after immortality juice seemingly have no interest in how Jake Sully fully transferred to a new body. Is it ever noted that "they" know he did the magic switcheroo and is not still in human form driving an avatar like the science nerd still is?
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Jan 30, 2023 21:16
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Crazycryodude posted:It took the F-35 program 20 years and 300 billion dollars before they got something that could fly in the rain, high dollar defense contractors taking obscene piles of money to make a space helicopter for another planet that gets consistently owned by anime catgirls with bows and arrows makes perfect sense to me. What the gently caress are the grunts on Pandora gonna do, complain to your corporate board 15 years after the fact? You've already got the money and the immortality juice is already in the cargo hold of a ship on its way back to you, who gives a poo poo? The company might certainly make a bad product, have poor safeguards, inadequate preparation for their enemy etc. but it would be interesting to see that rather than simply eliding it
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Jan 30, 2023 21:24
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teagone posted:The humans have developed their own process to do so, but it's the "affront to nature" Hugh Jackman method from The Prestige. Exactly. Why would humans be interested in it when they’ve discovered a way to perpetually re-animate someone whereas Na’vi seemingly only have the capability of transferring someone’s mind to another body under fairly restrictive circumstances?
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Jan 30, 2023 21:24
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Kart Barfunkel posted:Is it? I never saw Titan AE. I figure it was another instance of Jake being a charming dumb-dumb. Like he heard that banshees traditionally get named by their riders and he just picked the very first name that came to mind. The main character names the new Earth "Planet Bob" at the end of the movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI_8I0BoJr4
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Jan 30, 2023 21:31
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The twist will be that the na'vi are technologically advanced humans from the far past who fled earth in favor of terraforming a dead moon into a virtual paradise. Or, David from alien covenant.
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Jan 30, 2023 21:31
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DeimosRising posted:The company might certainly make a bad product, have poor safeguards, inadequate preparation for their enemy etc. but it would be interesting to see that rather than simply eliding it Yeah but it wasn’t poor safeguards, they just didn’t think that quaritch would see the kid as his son, and it barely impacted the mission anyways. (They didn’t account for payakan). But it’s unique. This is how all science and engineering projects go. You experiment and learn.
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Jan 30, 2023 22:04
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The oddest plothole that comes to mind now when I think back to the film after seeing it again, was the fact Quarcom asks Captain Aussiehab if the tulkun ever fight back and he says something like "nah never seen em fight back", when we know from Payakan's flashback that he lead a group of na'vi and tulkun in a fight against a whaling ship. Sure, there are multiple whaling boats made, we see them under construction, so it might have been against a different one, but even if it was a different ship they fought against, wouldn't all the captains talk and know they might attack? Because the na'vi were involved did they just consider it a na'vi attack and ignore the tulkun aspect of it maybe? You can make up reasons in your head for it to bend into making sense, but its an odd bit of the plot.
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Jan 30, 2023 22:53
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A guy not knowing or misunderstanding something isn't a plothole.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:04
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We Australians would never downplay the danger of a situation when wild animals are involved.
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Jan 31, 2023 02:16
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well why not posted:We Australians would never downplay the danger of a situation when wild animals are involved. Fair point. The Aussie colonizers probably thought pandora was a swell holiday.
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Jan 31, 2023 04:25
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Kart Barfunkel posted:According to the official Wiki, Jake Sully named his Ikran Bob, which is a detail that I appreciate. Himbo representation at its finest.
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Jan 31, 2023 10:28
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Like the whole premise is that the only humans with any sense and appreciation for anything on Pandora outside of its monetary value, or the long term at all, are explicitly relegated to low-level positions of researchers, technicians, and the occasional grunt- they are not the kind of people who are allowed anywhere near positions of leadership.
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Jan 31, 2023 14:12
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drunkill posted:
That theme for family being "a man's job is to protect his family with guns". James knows how to make a 4 quadrant film - people can ignore the pro-environmental message and latch on to (or even just consciously think about) the messaging they already agree with.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:49
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"Don't Tread On Me" but in blue with some kind of Pandora snake
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Jan 31, 2023 17:54
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Failed Imagineer posted:Ultimately, SMG is just another "everything is a plothole" guy, with some po-mo frills thrown on top. If JC had decided to include a 45min sequence of Quarritch 2 learning how to hunt Pandoran wildlife and all the other extraneous detail he supposedly wants to see on screen, that would also be subject to criticism for different reasons. The important thing is being able to criticise, the actual product is immaterial That's not what postmodernism is, and I am not a postmodernist anyways. I am also not referring to 'plot holes' but to ideological limitations and failures. (The movie certainly doesn't need more plot.) A basic example: there's a sequence where the submariners endanger themselves on a mission to kidnap children via improvised submarine combat. They're, like, doing complex maneuvers, racing through the tangles of a kelp forest, swinging these unfeeling metallic claws at the six-year-old girl and so-on. So, what is their motivation for doing this? They normally just attach hooks to stuff. Kidnapping can't possibly be in the job description, yet there they are. Now, the workers being crazed child-kidnappers isn't really a 'plot hole'. Nothing that happens there is strictly impossible, and impossible stuff happens all the time in fantasy stories. Maybe they're all card-carrying white supremacists. Maybe it's a dream sequence. Who gives a poo poo. The reason to point this out, rather, is to ask why all of the (very few) working-class characters in this ostensibly anticapitalist film are presented in this way. If this is a fantasy, why this fantasy? (Whose fantasy is it?) So we've got Quarrtich 2 and, as far as we can tell, he's considered to be legally the same person as Quarritch 1. They aren't actually the same person, but I guess Q1 signed over all rights to his estate, his drivers' license transfers over, etc. What happens if/when the company makes two of them? Five of them? The familiar story in sci-fi movies is that the bad company can pump out thousands of clones or drones because they're considered just objects.That basic narrative gets hosed up if the company's pumping out full legal persons. Q2 never even actually applied for the job, for example. He was evidently born already-employed, implanted with a fictive memory of going through the hiring process, signing contracts, etc. If you're making a movie critical of corporations, actual corporations have such as legal and HR departments to protect themselves from the sort of clusterfuck the Q2 situation represents.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:01
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Bro it might help if you learn to do this thing called suspending your disbelief
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Jan 31, 2023 19:05
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Tenkaris posted:Bro it might help if you learn to do this thing called suspending your disbelief That's not what suspension of disbelief is.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Now, the workers being crazed child-kidnappers isn't really a 'plot hole'. Nothing that happens there is strictly impossible, and impossible stuff happens all the time in fantasy stories. Maybe they're all card-carrying white supremacists. Maybe it's a dream sequence. Who gives a poo poo. I mean this seems pretty obviously an issue of reducing the film's putative politics to "anti-capitalism" when Cameron pretty clearly is specifically condemning American imperialism and resource extraction abroad? It's a fantasy of killing whalers, not ending capitalism. "Big Jim should think first about class" is projection, he pretty clearly thinks you are culpable and likely have more attachment to the whole thing than merely financial if you directly participate in the imperial project on any level. e: like I think Cameron assumes the people who flew across the galaxy to a hostile planet to hunt the superintelligent empathic whale moms by trapping them on the surface of the water so they can be blown up with explosive harpoons might be here for more than punching a clock and collecting a paycheck and while that's an ideological assumption you can quibble with it doesn't seem prima facie wrong or like bad filmmaking. SuperMechagodzilla posted:The familiar story in sci-fi movies is that the bad company can pump out thousands of clones or drones because they're considered just objects.That basic narrative gets hosed up if the company's pumping out full legal persons. I mean maybe that's the sci-fi story but in the real world corporations are constantly generating full legal persons (they are called...corporations), and legal and HR departments work in tandem to extract the maximum amount of labor from individuals without respect to their rights and reactively handle potential legal liabilities, not to think through elaborate future scenarios to avoid legal trouble or ensure the well-being of employees, so the writing in this respect feels like a fairly straightforward extension of real world trends? also "he's considered to be legally the same person" is an enormous leap, given that Q2 explicitly indicates to spider that they are not the same person. The best evidence for your interpretation I can recall is quaritch apparently retaining his commission and rank, but "this clone with a former employee's memories and training can enter our corporation at the same level" doesn't do much to indicate legal continuity to me. We're not even talking about his U.S. military commission or something, right? It's explicitly an NGO. Valentin fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 19:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's not what suspension of disbelief is. lol so when you saw Q2 you went "what about his driver's license?!" That seems like the exact definition of failing to suspend your disbelief to enjoy the film to me, but I'm sure you have a long form essay to rebuke me on that?
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Jan 31, 2023 19:25
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