Pathfinder 2e: If your MAP is too high, use your third action to Post.

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Syrinxx: Mar 28, 2002; Death is whimsical today

queeb posted:

its my wife so if she's not having fun we'll have to go back to 5e or something, happy wife happy life, haha. But yeah our martals were like, fuckin pirouetting around for panache and stabbing for huge damage, wallrunning and jumping over stuff, and our barbarian went fury instinct and took the 2 action double move/attack feat and was zipping all over the place while raging to smack guys down, both also going for trips and intimidates and just having a blast. So A+ on how good martials feel.

We'll give it a go for a few weeks, through troubles in otari and abomination vaults, get some more levels on the druid and see how it goes. worst case we look at some other spellcasters and see what shakes out.

edit: i'll look at the flexible spellcasting archtype too.

As other have said, encourage her to stick with it until 3+, or possibly let her rebuild a spontaneous caster. Also ensure she is getting a wand or stave at level 2 and frequently beyond that.

Before she knows it she will be dropping 300 point chain lightnings while the martials miss their attacks

# ? Jan 29, 2023 17:45

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# ? May 31, 2024 17:26

sugar free jazz: Mar 5, 2008

Syrinxx posted:

As other have said, encourage her to stick with it until 3+, or possibly let her rebuild a spontaneous caster. Also ensure she is getting a wand or stave at level 2 and frequently beyond that.

Before she knows it she will be dropping 300 point chain lightnings while the martials miss their attacks

uhhh should definitely not expect to out damage martials outside of really rare circumstances where aoe spells are blowing up a bunch of chumps and should reaaaally not expect 300 damage chain lightnings unless you�re up against the same type of huge group of chumps where your martials are also extremely not missing attacks

# ? Jan 29, 2023 19:30

Syrinxx: Mar 28, 2002; Death is whimsical today

I'm sure different parties have different experiences, but our AoA witch absolutely fucks, while the rogue does... ok... at keeping up thanks mostly to opportune backstab. In our SoT table, the druid is the dps star as well. Neither table has a barbarian though

# ? Jan 29, 2023 22:24

Lamuella: Jun 26, 2003; It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.

I'm definitely overfacing myself with this, but this week I ran the session zero for my first Pathfinder campaign, which I've been thinking about for about six months

It's my first time running Pathfinder other than having done a one shot of Little Trouble In Big Absalom
It's my first time playing Pathfinder other than the one shot I ran
It's my first time running a campaign that will go longer than about 8 weeks
I'm doing my own setting rather than running a module
Nobody else in the game has ever played Pathfiner
2 people in the game have never played a tabletop rpg before

This will either be the dumbest thing I've ever done or will turn out to unexpectedly be a huge success. Either way, I'm excited.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:06

Jarvisi: Apr 17, 2001; Green is still best.

Lamuella posted:

I'm definitely overfacing myself with this, but this week I ran the session zero for my first Pathfinder campaign, which I've been thinking about for about six months

]

This will either be the dumbest thing I've ever done or will turn out to unexpectedly be a huge success. Either way, I'm excited.

The only thing I'll say is don't plan too far ahead. Session by session is usually best because your players will gently caress with your plan relentlessly if you try planning ahead too much.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:30

Lamuella: Jun 26, 2003; It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.

Jarvisi posted:

The only thing I'll say is don't plan too far ahead. Session by session is usually best because your players will gently caress with your plan relentlessly if you try planning ahead too much.

I'm planning to be very very flexible. I've got the introductory adventure planned to the level of there being something they've been asked to get, a place where it is, a reason to do it, and some hazards they can face along the way. The adventures following this will be much more driven by their interests as expressed through how they play. Two of them are people I've played with a lot, the others are generally people I've known for years. I have quite a few things I'd like to do, and the sketch of an overall story, but I'm not going to do much railroading. Going on the "draw maps but leave gaps" model.

# ? Jan 29, 2023 23:45

Kitfox88: Aug 21, 2007; Anybody lose their glasses?

Syrinxx posted:

I'm sure different parties have different experiences, but our AoA witch absolutely fucks, while the rogue does... ok... at keeping up thanks mostly to opportune backstab. In our SoT table, the druid is the dps star as well. Neither table has a barbarian though

During the fight at the stage in level 1 SoT conclusion I got crit by the ringleader down to like 2hp and then when my next turn rolled around I crit them right back and did an obscene damage amount for level 1 barb is so loving fun.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 00:26

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

Kitfox88 posted:

During the fight at the stage in level 1 SoT conclusion I got crit by the ringleader down to like 2hp and then when my next turn rolled around I crit them right back and did an obscene damage amount for level 1 barb is so loving fun.

Our fighter runs around with a greataxe, and utterly deletes anything lower level than himself with power attack crits. 2d12 + 4 damage is insane at level 2, and has a very good chance of doubling due to a crit, especially when flanking. And the bard's Inspire Courage just makes it nastier.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 02:08

Suzera: Oct 6, 2021; This spell rocks. It'll pop you right out of that funk.

Lamuella posted:

I'm definitely overfacing myself with this, but this week I ran the session zero for my first Pathfinder campaign, which I've been thinking about for about six months

[list]
[*]It's my first time running Pathfinder other than having done a one shot of Little Trouble In Big Absalom
[*]I'm doing my own setting rather than running a module

Keep the monster and encounter building tables nearby and in view if you're ad-libbing encounters. Or even if you're not ad-libbing encounters really. If you lowball the monster stats in the first few encounters to gauge your party's cohesiveness, strategic competency, and optimization level, then go at what seems like an appropriate adjustment to baseline based on that it should generally work out ok as written. Then you just need to worry about the story stuff. Basic combat encounter building is generally easier and a lot less worry about it not working in PF2 than any D&Dlike I've played or read. After reading the creation section, I've done quite a few just using the enemy stat tables per monster level on the fly at table time to generate encounters in minutes just while I was finding/making tokens and it worked out well. No unexpected tpk threats nor unexpectedly trivial fights, even if they were mechanically not as spectacular or interesting as my pre-planned ones.

If anyone asks me which system is the easiest to create encounters for out of close-dnd-likes tactical-strategy-rpgs I have decent enough knowledge of, I don't even really feel the need to hesitate or qualify saying PF2 despite how crunchy it is generally. The things that are written generally just work and are flexible, and this is a massive advantage.

Suzera fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Jan 30, 2023

# ? Jan 30, 2023 10:25

Lamuella: Jun 26, 2003; It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.

This is great advice. I've got one set-piece set up at the start which will hopefully help gauge how people are doing in the setting. It's designed to look challenging but be handleable while people are figuring out their characters. Once that gives me an idea of how the party performs I'll be able to calibrate accordingly. The advice I've seen from various people is that it's easier to toughen up an encounter that feels too light than to soften up an encounter that feels too hard, so I'll try and have things like reinforcements available if the party look like they're just mowing through opposition.

EDIT: and you're absolutely right that some of the materials in things like the Gamemastery Guide are absolutely great for setting up the kind of encounter you want. Even just things like the quick adventure framework are great.

Lamuella fucked around with this message at 11:24 on Jan 30, 2023

# ? Jan 30, 2023 11:20

turboraton: Aug 28, 2011

Wait, am I missing something in here? Don't druids in pf2e at lvl 1 have more to do than druids in 5e at lvl 1?

# ? Jan 30, 2023 14:55

M. Night Skymall: Mar 22, 2012

turboraton posted:

Wait, am I missing something in here? Don't druids in pf2e at lvl 1 have more to do than druids in 5e at lvl 1?

The general complaint I've seen from 5e people moving over is that 5 spells with a choice to cast 2 times feels better than having to choose exactly 2 spells and casting those. I agree though PF2E cantrips are much better, and focus spells also give more options. A lot of people really hate Vancian casting and just get hung up on it.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 15:01

Chevy Slyme: May 2, 2004; We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

M. Night Skymall posted:

The general complaint I've seen from 5e people moving over is that 5 spells with a choice to cast 2 times feels better than having to choose exactly 2 spells and casting those. I agree though PF2E cantrips are much better, and focus spells also give more options. A lot of people really hate Vancian casting and just get hung up on it.

I think the post that called out animal order as the issue nailed it; the animal order Focus spell is just not very fun - especially at level 1 health pools and combat dynamics. Swapping to a different order and using the level 2 feat to grab a pet is definitely going to feel a lot better. Having a good Focus spell is a game changer for making otherwise vancian casters feel interesting in every fight.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 15:25

marshmallow creep: Dec 10, 2008; I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

So I am a little confused about Giant Instinct barbarians and want to make sure I am not missing anything.

When they change size, does that only increase their reach or does that also increase the size of their weapon? If it does, and you already have a Large weapon, does it become Huge? What about if you size change to Huge?

Since you can't increase your die past d12, it seems like using something like a large greataxe is taking a penality for no or lesser benefit (apart from the class specific damage bonus of course) so you'd be better served by taking something that does a d8 or d10 or can be used in one hand and then bigging it up.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 17:46

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

What's increasing the die size? I'm not seeing anything for that.

Generally a die size is +1 damage so if someone got capped out and I was gming I would just do that.

Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 30, 2023

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:01

Suzera: Oct 6, 2021; This spell rocks. It'll pop you right out of that funk.

Chevy Slyme posted:

I think the post that called out animal order as the issue nailed it; the animal order Focus spell is just not very fun - especially at level 1 health pools and combat dynamics. Swapping to a different order and using the level 2 feat to grab a pet is definitely going to feel a lot better. Having a good Focus spell is a game changer for making otherwise vancian casters feel interesting in every fight.

Electric Arc, which Druids get direct access to, is really tough to beat at level 1, and none of the focus spells quite reach that bar for a while. You're still probably just going to be casting Electric Arc most of the time regardless of what Focus Spell you have. And Reach Spell for your feat choice is also really nice to have with Electric Arc and many other things. There's reasons to do an Order Explorer swap thing, but I don't think this for a level 1-2 case is one of them.

Heal Animal is weird for a class that also gets access to actually Heal though. But I think I'd get more use out of it at level 1 than, say, Tempest Surge as long as the pet took some damage now and then.

Suzera fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jan 30, 2023

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:01

M. Night Skymall: Mar 22, 2012

marshmallow creep posted:

So I am a little confused about Giant Instinct barbarians and want to make sure I am not missing anything.

When they change size, does that only increase their reach or does that also increase the size of their weapon? If it does, and you already have a Large weapon, does it become Huge? What about if you size change to Huge?

Since you can't increase your die past d12, it seems like using something like a large greataxe is taking a penality for no or lesser benefit (apart from the class specific damage bonus of course) so you'd be better served by taking something that does a d8 or d10 or can be used in one hand and then bigging it up.

Larger weapons don't do any additional damage naturally. Giant instinct barbarians get bonus damage for wielding a larger weapon than normal when they are raging, and become clumsy 1. When you aren't raging you're still clumsy 1 and do no additional damage. You can increase your size with giant stature, and then titan stature. This just adds reach and changes your token size, and can only be used when raging. It also makes you clumsy 1, but you're already clumsy 1 from the oversized weapon and they don't stack.

ETA: This is all PF2E, weapons do different damage based on size in 1E, but I'm not super familiar with the rules beyond that.

M. Night Skymall fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Jan 30, 2023

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:10

Red Metal: Oct 23, 2012; Let me tell you about Homestuck; Fun Shoe

marshmallow creep posted:

So I am a little confused about Giant Instinct barbarians and want to make sure I am not missing anything.

When they change size, does that only increase their reach or does that also increase the size of their weapon? If it does, and you already have a Large weapon, does it become Huge? What about if you size change to Huge?

Since you can't increase your die past d12, it seems like using something like a large greataxe is taking a penality for no or lesser benefit (apart from the class specific damage bonus of course) so you'd be better served by taking something that does a d8 or d10 or can be used in one hand and then bigging it up.

When you become large using the Giant's Stature feat, it only increases your reach, not your damage.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:13

M. Night Skymall: Mar 22, 2012

Suzera posted:

Electric Arc, which Druids get direct access to, is really tough to beat at level 1, and none of the focus spells quite reach that bar for a while. You're still probably just going to be casting Electric Arc most of the time regardless of what Focus Spell you have. And Reach Spell for your feat choice is also really nice to have with Electric Arc and many other things. There's reasons to do an Order Explorer swap thing, but I don't think this for a level 1-2 case is one of them.

Tempest Surge is better than electric arc on a single target even at level 1. Electric arc is better on 2 targets basically forever though, probably. At some point the potential inflict clumsy/persistent damage is maybe better than a few more dmg, but electric arc's really good.

I do wish they'd just given the focus spells + casting stat to damage though, that'd make them feel a lot more punchy at level 1 and wouldn't be overpowering at all, worth considering as a house rule.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:28

Suzera: Oct 6, 2021; This spell rocks. It'll pop you right out of that funk.

M. Night Skymall posted:

Tempest Surge is better than electric arc on a single target even at level 1. Electric arc is better on 2 targets basically forever though, probably. At some point the potential inflict clumsy/persistent damage is maybe better than a few more dmg, but electric arc's really good.

I do wish they'd just given the focus spells + casting stat to damage though, that'd make them feel a lot more punchy at level 1 and wouldn't be overpowering at all, worth considering as a house rule.

Barely vs a single target at level 1. 1d4+4 and 1d12 both average 6.5. Tempest surge just gets to inflict clumsy and 1 persistent damage on top. Probably after the combat is nearing resolution because I've been using Electric Arc because there's probably been more than one target until then.

Or instead of having Tempest Surge, I could better make sure my battle cat can keep providing flanking bonuses and soak hits all day and maybe also contribute a d6 here or there. And without having to wait for level 2 for animal companion.

E: Also a lot of the Sorcerer focus spells are finer in this regard. Many of the weaker combat ones take one action so you can Electric Arc (or other 2a spell) and cast the focus spell in the same round. The druid combat ones are just more comparable to 2a full spells later.

Suzera fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Jan 30, 2023

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:40

marshmallow creep: Dec 10, 2008; I've been sitting here for 5 mins trying to think of a joke to make but I just realised the animators of Mass Effect already did it for me

M. Night Skymall posted:

Larger weapons don't do any additional damage naturally. Giant instinct barbarians get bonus damage for wielding a larger weapon than normal when they are raging, and become clumsy 1. When you aren't raging you're still clumsy 1 and do no additional damage. You can increase your size with giant stature, and then titan stature. This just adds reach and changes your token size, and can only be used when raging. It also makes you clumsy 1, but you're already clumsy 1 from the oversized weapon and they don't stack.

ETA: This is all PF2E, weapons do different damage based on size in 1E, but I'm not super familiar with the rules beyond that.

Oh I see! I was misunderstanding the section of weapons about "when an effect calls for you to increase your die size" as meaning when you increase the size of the weapon you increase the weapon die size to go with it.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:52

kirtar: Sep 11, 2011; Strum in a harmonizing quartet
I want to cause a revolution

What can I do? My savage
nature is beyond wild

The divine cantrip list just makes me sad.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 18:59

MonsterEnvy: Feb 4, 2012; Shocked I tell you

Larger weapons not doing extra damage tripped me up a bit.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 19:59

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

kirtar posted:

The divine cantrip list just makes me sad.

The damage spells in the divine cantrip list are a little weak (Daze) or situational (Disrupt Undead), but are nevertheless a solid option in a pinch. Where the divine list really shines, though, is its utility spells, and the cantrip list is no exception. Some highlights:

Detect Magic: exploration spell that is so good that it has its own exploration activity
Forbidding Ward: give a solid defensive bonus an ally in need
Guidance: one-action auto-succeeding Aid from a distance, only limited by its per-ally cooldown.
Know Direction: great in any sort of Survival challenge. Maybe not worth it on a spontaneous caster, but definitely worth keeping in mind on a prepared caster.
Light: free torch, and gets a solid upgrade at 4th. Sarenrae help your enemies with light blindness
Message: surprisingly handy in social situations, or when sneaking
Prestidigitation: Great flavor spell (literally). Also, if someone makes you mad, you can use it to soil their clothing, which is hilarious
Protect Companion: solid single-action defensive bonus to your animal companion/ minion / eidolon
Read Aura: slower, finer grained Detect Magic
Shield: Shields are great in pf2e; this effectively gives you a buckler without any restrictions on your hands, and you can Shield Block with it without any feat investment.
Stabilize: never a bad option to have this in your back pocket. Great when you are out of healing, or in situations where being revived is likely to end with your ally immediately going back down and full-on dying.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 20:00

kirtar: Sep 11, 2011; Strum in a harmonizing quartet
I want to cause a revolution

What can I do? My savage
nature is beyond wild

VikingofRock posted:

The damage spells in the divine cantrip list are a little weak (Daze) or situational (Disrupt Undead), but are nevertheless a solid option in a pinch. Where the divine list really shines, though, is its utility spells, and the cantrip list is no exception. Some highlights:

Detect Magic: exploration spell that is so good that it has its own exploration activity

Forbidding Ward: give a solid defensive bonus an ally in need

Guidance: one-action auto-succeeding Aid from a distance, only limited by its per-ally cooldown.

Know Direction: great in any sort of Survival challenge. Maybe not worth it on a spontaneous caster, but definitely worth keeping in mind on a prepared caster.

Light: free torch, and gets a solid upgrade at 4th. Sarenrae help your enemies with light blindness

Message: surprisingly handy in social situations, or when sneaking

Prestidigitation: Great flavor spell (literally). Also, if someone makes you mad, you can use it to soil their clothing, which is hilarious

Protect Companion: solid single-action defensive bonus to your animal companion/ minion / eidolon

Read Aura: slower, finer grained Detect Magic

Shield: Shields are great in pf2e; this effectively gives you a buckler without any restrictions on your hands, and you can Shield Block with it without any feat investment.

Stabilize: never a bad option to have this in your back pocket. Great when you are out of healing, or in situations where being revived is likely to end with your ally immediately going back down and full-on dying.

I think a lot of my frustration has to do with Divine Lance's design being flavorful but also extremely irritating given that clerics already have enough problems to consider with respect to deity selection. This becomes less of a problem if you house rule it to be able to do reduced force damage like a lot of the alignment damage dealing feats do, but RAW that cantrip is a PITA unless you know for sure what's in your campaign.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 20:35

Lamuella: Jun 26, 2003; It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.

I will admit to finding it odd that the Diabolic and Demonic bloodlines draw their spells from the Divine list

# ? Jan 30, 2023 21:22

Piell: Sep 3, 2006; Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer; Young Orc

Yeah IMO if you are a divine spell list user you really want to go human for Adapted Cantrip and pick up Electric Arc

# ? Jan 30, 2023 21:28

KPC_Mammon: Jan 23, 2004; Ready for the fashy circle jerk

Elves and Gnomes can also get it as an innate spell that levels with their class's spell proficiency.

Edit: Only relevant if you have good Charisma but I've seen Clerics with higher Charisma than Wisdom and Sorcerers and Oracles are fine.

KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jan 30, 2023

# ? Jan 30, 2023 21:35

Lurks With Wolves: Jan 14, 2013; At least I don't dance with them, right?

Lamuella posted:

I will admit to finding it odd that the Diabolic and Demonic bloodlines draw their spells from the Divine list

It's probably the part of the class that changed the most from 1e to 2e, honestly. Conceptually, the divine spell list works for them. But so much of the established devil/demon sorcerer playstyle from previous games in the general D&D-alike pool are so focused on big flashy bursts of hellfire, and that's not something the divine spell list does at low levels.

Sorcerers changing their spell list based on bloodlines is still a good decision overall imo, but there's still corner cases where the spell lists don't feel quite right.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 21:35

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004

While I think it's a very well balanced game I generally suggest everyone always complain to their GMs to allow changes that sound cool and kind of makes sense

# ? Jan 30, 2023 22:32

Chevy Slyme: May 2, 2004; We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.

KPC_Mammon posted:

Elves and Gnomes can also get it as an innate spell that levels with their class's spell proficiency.

Edit: Only relevant if you have good Charisma but I've seen Clerics with higher Charisma than Wisdom and Sorcerers and Oracles are fine.

Kobolds too. There�s probably several others I�m forgetting.

# ? Jan 30, 2023 22:50

Serf: May 5, 2011

kirtar posted:

I think a lot of my frustration has to do with Divine Lance's design being flavorful but also extremely irritating given that clerics already have enough problems to consider with respect to deity selection. This becomes less of a problem if you house rule it to be able to do reduced force damage like a lot of the alignment damage dealing feats do, but RAW that cantrip is a PITA unless you know for sure what's in your campaign.

Divine Lance was one of the things that made me go with eliminating alignment entirely. Too much to keep track of, and overall just a stale holdover from D&D that should be excised.

# ? Jan 31, 2023 00:34

kirtar: Sep 11, 2011; Strum in a harmonizing quartet
I want to cause a revolution

What can I do? My savage
nature is beyond wild

Piell posted:

Yeah IMO if you are a divine spell list user you really want to go human for Adapted Cantrip and pick up Electric Arc

Pretty good chance that this is what I'm going to end up doing for PFS since ~50 immunities and however many resistances is way better than like 900 immunities (or ~200 for daze).

kirtar fucked around with this message at 01:20 on Jan 31, 2023

# ? Jan 31, 2023 01:05

Kitfox88: Aug 21, 2007; Anybody lose their glasses?

Harold Fjord posted:

While I think it's a very well balanced game I generally suggest everyone always complain to their GMs to allow changes that sound cool and kind of makes sense

the pixie inventor in my SoT campaign has a pintle mounted gun on their barrel robot

# ? Jan 31, 2023 01:10

Hunter Noventa: Apr 21, 2010

Serf posted:

Divine Lance was one of the things that made me go with eliminating alignment entirely. Too much to keep track of, and overall just a stale holdover from D&D that should be excised.

Yeah that was awful for my Cleric until she picked up the Druid Archetype, her deity is True Neutral so she can't even USE Divine lance, despite her own alignment being NG.

# ? Jan 31, 2023 01:52

AnEdgelord: Dec 12, 2016

alignment can be fun when its applied to Outsiders, thats how you get fun background stuff like the Blood War, but applying it to mortals (especially PCs) is a recipe for disaster, one 5e thing I wish Paizo took more from is to tie Champions/Paladins to Oaths instead of continuing to shackle them to the alignment system

# ? Jan 31, 2023 02:04

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

I showed Thaumaturge to a friend of mine who used to play 1e PFS games with me when this one shop was hosting them.
She is completely onboard with the whole "bullshit a weakness onto the enemy" ability and the fact that they carry around countless bits and bobs like some sort of trash goblin.
She just needs to figure out an ancestry she likes and then I need to figure out when Pittsburgh's society games are going to pick back up.
A lot of games are on hold I think because one of the guys who ran a majority of the games lost his wife a few weeks ago, so he understandably has other things than Pathfinder on his mind.

# ? Jan 31, 2023 02:48