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It's not exactly the same, but I had to put my dog down a month ago and this episode sure dug all that up. The period of time where you know their quality of life is declining but aren't quite sure if it's the right thing to let them go or not sure sucks. I appreciate how it was portrayed and communicated in this episode and it gutted me. Also, I'm sorta ashamed to say until a few years ago I wouldn't have watched this due to old biased ideas I grew up with from a very religious/conservative background, especially if it was men. The first time I watched something and felt happiness and joy from a gay relationship succeeding was Adventure Time's finale. Now a few years later I felt all that here, too, without any of those old feelings of judgment I once had. So, I guess people can change and I thought this episode was a beautiful portrayal of love. The discussion around this episode reminds me of Fly from Breaking Bad which I really liked. I enjoy a show taking some time just showing characters I've become interested in live in their world and experience stuff. If the characters are good enough it doesn't matter to me what they do and I'm just glad to spend more time with them.
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Jan 31, 2023 12:37
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Repeatedly raiding Frank and Bill's compound makes sense in video game logic where you can just respawn and try again and keep mapping out the traps a little better each time. It makes a lot less sense when you actually die an agonizing death the first time you go near it. I can't imagine raiders behaving like anything other than bullies looking for soft targets and staying the hell away from anything as dangerous as Bill and Frank's compound. If anything, they would only really have to worry about a payback sniper attack from outside the fence while they were out jogging or something.
Bulky Bartokomous fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 14:48
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Yeah the second you see your buddy get set on fire you probably start questioning if they have worse traps past the fence/more guys with guns, etc and if the stuff you're potentially getting is going to be worth losing that many folks.
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Jan 31, 2023 15:06
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I get why Joel is worried on the road. Ambushing travellers is a great racket. The raid on Bill’s place in contrast was just suicidal.
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Jan 31, 2023 15:07
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Just going by the show, it seems like there will be *some* raiders, because Joel warns against a flimsy fence not stopping raiders. However, most raiding groups will be small 5-10 groups wandering for supplies. As soon as they lose 1 or 2, they're effectively taken care of because they are exponentially decreased by that. No reason to keep pushing at that one spot. Joel and Ellie are also shown walking around in the middle of fields, etc. with no worries. That means threats in open spaces are probably low. If people are living in cities in general, there isn't as much of a reason for a bunch of groups of raiders. You probably just get small groups of scavengers that sneak out of cities for the most part. I don't think this show is going to just spawn bunches of enemies around the characters in situations like the games because a) it doesn't make sense, and b) the games do that to keep the player entertained. The Walking Dead as a show seemed to do that as well, but I'm pretty sure this show has much better writers that don't need to spawn magical zombies or groups of people around the characters to create stakes and drama. Darko fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 15:08
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Things would also be worse the first decade compared to the second where it becomes harder and harder to take advantage of wandering travelers. The worst case would have honestly been a QZ collapse that leads to a bunch of people without anywhere to go.
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Jan 31, 2023 15:15
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The radio guy in the first episode mentioned that things are significantly worse out west in terms of human threats. Raiders etc probably steer relatively clear of places like the Boston QZ just because Fedra is prowling around. Joel said they wouldn't come up to Bill's compound, but that doesn't mean they don't patrol elsewhere. I did think while Joel and Ellie were strolling along the open plains that they were extremely exposed, though.
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Jan 31, 2023 15:53
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Also, since there's presumably no intercontinental travel anymore except maybe at the military level, you're basically just stuck with whatever fraction of the North American population is left after twenty years of a most likely negative birthrate. There just aren't that many people left in general, let alone ones prowling random country roads in organized raiding parties, and those would naturally gravitate to the more populated areas around QZs or other urban centers. It was established that Bill's town is at least a five-hour hike from the Boston area and there aren't very many working vehicles left, so I don't think it should be that hard to walk for hundreds of miles without encountering a single person, especially if they take precautions like not always walking on the main roads. Even in the game I think it's a bit of a stretch that after twenty years, every random bank and hotel in a long-abandoned city would be filled with raiding parties consisting exclusively of battle-hardened fighting-age men. That feels more like a one- or two-years-later type of thing.
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Jan 31, 2023 16:26
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nine-gear crow posted:I love how half the replies to that tweet are just "Nick Offerman turned back into Ron Swanson for a minute there". Bill spent half of episode making various meat. He is Ron Swanson (turned gay after Tammi's death).
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Jan 31, 2023 16:49
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stephenthinkpad posted:Bill spent half of episode making various meat. He is Ron Swanson (turned gay after Tammi's death). He's got a full beard now since there's nothing to rub it off on anymore
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Jan 31, 2023 17:01
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Can I assume Bill had traded with Joel for fresh fuel? Also my dude go to the Toyota dealership and just take a 4Runner, you already took everything else!
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Jan 31, 2023 17:44
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Koirhor posted:Can I assume Bill had traded with Joel for fresh fuel? Also my dude go to the Toyota dealership and just take a 4Runner, you already took everything else! Something to remember about Hollywood: gas doesn't go bad in films/television. This is as realistic as cordyceps zombies so just hand wave it away. For the second point: Bill might have stockpiled spare parts for an older truck which would be why he didn't take a newer one.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:50
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Mage_Boy posted:Something to remember about Hollywood: gas doesn't go bad in films/television. This is as realistic as cordyceps zombies so just hand wave it away. I'm not exactly a car guy, I like trains too much, but wouldn't many older cars be significantly easier to maintain? Like an 80's Japanese pick-up truck seems like it'd be ideal because it's very well-machined and made with modern materials, but it's also dirt simple and there are roughly a bergillion spare parts for it lying around. For the same reason why every technical made by guerilla fighters has been a Toyota Hilux with a machine gun bolted to the top for roughly 40 years.
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Jan 31, 2023 17:55
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Tiggum posted:That is a long way from "people can make a life for themselves by choosing to care about other people". They have each other, but they are making every effort to keep everyone else out (except Joel and Tess, who can visit but probably not stay). They are not choosing to care about other people, they're choosing to let other people go gently caress themselves. Your only evidence of this is an inference based on the fact that they have a fence. At no point in the show are they depicted turning anyone away. What is actually shown is what you already mention; Bill learning to accept Frank and also Joel/Tess and this content takes up a huge amount of the episode. Tiggum posted:The people in Boston absolutely are choosing to care about other people. Whether it's by trying to control them This is not actually caring about others as if they were people. FEDRA murders them in the beginning of this episode. They are shown publicly executing them in the first. Tiggum posted:Whatever message was intended, what it's actually saying is that trying to make the best of it with other people is the wrong choice and you should get the gently caress out and leave the world to burn. Its fine if this is your viewing of the show, I just don't think its supported by what was portrayed on screen in the third episode. So in your opinion, the theme of the show/episode is don't trust anyone? Automata 10 Pack posted:lol “muh message!” I guess this can’t be a good show unless it has a easily moral for the audience to learn. I don't think discussing the themes of a show is somehow bad. The third episode makes things quite explicit in the form of Bill's letter imo. I have played tlou, albeit a long time ago. I am trying hard to only use what is in the show to make my point though it's altogether possible the game is coloring my views. DeadFatDuckFat fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 18:06
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Mage_Boy posted:Something to remember about Hollywood: gas doesn't go bad in films/television. This is as realistic as cordyceps zombies so just hand wave it away.
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Jan 31, 2023 18:18
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Alhazred posted:I liked hoe Fury Road solved this: The reason there's still gas is that there's oil refinery. Pretty much. The existing gas is bad, but clearly a refinery exists somewhere via FEDRA, and it's traded for.
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Jan 31, 2023 18:52
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRUFv9JMECY&t=570s Some White Lotus talk, but TLOU conversation starts around 6:15. Also, ratings went up again with episode 3. It looks like the first 2 episodes averaged 21.3 million viewers across all platforms and episode 3 6.4 million viewers on initial viewing (1 was 4.7, 2 was 5.7). I thought this show would be a hit, but I am surprised it has happened this fast. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/the-last-of-us-tv-ratings-episode-3-1235313243/ Think there will be a drop off next week given some people can't handle men kissing? No football next week could help it get more initial viewers. If anything, episode 5 will have a drop off due to Super Bowl, but I assume across all platform viewings will still be high. nate fisher fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jan 31, 2023 |
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Jan 31, 2023 18:54
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:This is not actually caring about others as if they were people. FEDRA murders them in the beginning of this episode. They are shown publicly executing them in the first. At the start of the game (after the apocalypse) if you annoy the FEDRA guards they will shoot you in the street.
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Jan 31, 2023 19:45
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From the one episode, we don't know for sure what Bill's actual reaction to a friendly but desperate "refugee" or band of refugees would be. We only get one data point on that (Frank) and he was about as friendly as possible given the circumstances. Bill gave Frank access to food, clothing, security, and shelter (all luxuries) with no strings attached - at least not at first lol I think it's reasonable to assume that if a bunch of needy, peaceful people ever showed up on his doorstep begging for entrance, he would have let them in or at least would offer some help. He probably would have considered just ignoring them (he is a realist it seems) but I think we're shown enough of Bill to know he does have at least some empathy for people and at some level, derives meaning from helping others. The show doesn't present us with that scenario though- it purposefully makes the only other outsiders obviously violent murdering types that don't get any sympathy from the audience as they're burned alive and shot dead. He's definitely not saying "gently caress off and die" to everyone else IMO.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:09
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:They are shown publicly executing them in the first. I have some bad news for you about the existing US government
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Jan 31, 2023 20:28
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What an amazing episode and it feels like if you didn't care for it you must be emotionally stunted or something.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:36
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freebooter posted:I have some bad news for you about the existing US government I have some bad news for you about your posting  No one in this thread have been defending the US government executing prisoners, so what the hell are you arguing?
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Jan 31, 2023 20:49
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:From the one episode, we don't know for sure what Bill's actual reaction to a friendly but desperate "refugee" or band of refugees would be. We only get one data point on that (Frank) and he was about as friendly as possible given the circumstances. Bill gave Frank access to food, clothing, security, and shelter (all luxuries) with no strings attached - at least not at first lol I wonder if the extended version of this episode actually contains any stuff like that, before Frank shows up, because I would've liked to see it. I think he probably did turn some people away - people he wasn't immediately attracted to, for example. He says he hated the world before he met Frank. Would've also liked to have seen more incursion attempts, or just more of his compound in general. But I suspect the extended version would just contain more of him and Frank's relationship which I think we got plenty of. Actually Bill in general was a complex enough character to be recurring, which is deviating hugely from the game, but that's their fault for making him interesting.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:54
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IMO it's easy to hate the world but love individuals. One of the great things about the episode is that it lets you draw your own conclusions about what Bill did / would have done to other trespassers. I get the sense that he didn't act kindly toward Frank just because he was attracted to him, but because for all his tough guy bluster, he finds it difficult to not help people who actually need to be helped. (that's just my own subjective opinion on it) I know a lot of chuddy manly men dipshits who for all their faults, do seem to have real empathy for people in one on one settings. I think the obvious indicators of Bill's right wing leanings are a nod to this.
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Jan 31, 2023 20:59
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:From the one episode, we don't know for sure what Bill's actual reaction to a friendly but desperate "refugee" or band of refugees would be. We only get one data point on that (Frank) and he was about as friendly as possible given the circumstances. Bill gave Frank access to food, clothing, security, and shelter (all luxuries) with no strings attached - at least not at first lol he was super into Frank from the second he saw that dude in the hole, I think he very much might have reacted differently to a group or a less handsome stranger.
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Jan 31, 2023 22:12
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It occurs to me this episode might have unfortunate implications if it was a woman who fell into the hole and then everything played out exactly as it did.
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Jan 31, 2023 22:16
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Overboard: poo poo Hit the Fan Edition
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Jan 31, 2023 22:23
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They need to release the 2 hour cut of the episode.
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Jan 31, 2023 22:28
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Costco Meatballs posted:he was super into Frank from the second he saw that dude in the hole, I think he very much might have reacted differently to a group or a less handsome stranger. If you check out the official HBO podcast for the show, Mazin says that Frank sensed Bill's hesitation/attraction and knew he could work that right away.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:16
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Cacator posted:If you check out the official HBO podcast for the show, Mazin says that Frank sensed Bill's hesitation/attraction and knew he could work that right away. And he cleared it talked about it with both the actor, director and editor, all older married gay men. This was 100% believe-able that Frank used one of his tools (looks, comfort with his sexuality) to see where it could go.
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Jan 31, 2023 23:48
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LionArcher posted:And he cleared it talked about it with both the actor, director and editor, all older married gay men. This was 100% believe-able that Frank used one of his tools (looks, comfort with his sexuality) to see where it could go. Yeah I mean if it were a standard hetero couple and a woman fell in the whole and used sex/appeal as a means to stay initially/longer that grew into actual romance no one would bat an eye but for some reason if a gay man does it too people are upset and calling him a "whore"? I really don't get what is wrong with how Frank initially got into Bill's good graces. Gay men can enjoy sex. Gay men can use sex as a tool. Gay men can experience a whole spectrum of sex between tool-eyness and enjoying-ness
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Feb 1, 2023 00:38
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Kwolok posted:Yeah I mean if it were a standard hetero couple and a woman fell in the whole and used sex/appeal as a means to stay initially/longer that grew into actual romance no one would bat an eye but for some reason if a gay man does it too people are upset and calling him a "whore"? I really don't get what is wrong with how Frank initially got into Bill's good graces. Gay men can enjoy sex. Gay men can use sex as a tool. Gay men can experience a whole spectrum of sex between tool-eyness and enjoying-ness O I can guarantee that a vocal subset would be very happy to call a hypothetical woman a whore for a variety of reasons.
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Feb 1, 2023 00:45
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I like how they're leaning into Pedro's Joel being a construction contractor. He really knows how to make poo poo. It's a tad more rounded than Game Joel, who is functionally a force of destruction.
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Feb 1, 2023 02:12
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Elden Lord Godfrey posted:I like how they're leaning into Pedro's Joel being a construction contractor. He really knows how to make poo poo. It's a tad more rounded than Game Joel, who is functionally a force of destruction. Oh, that explains the tonal dissonance of Bill's letter. I've never played the game so that message about only living to protect other people didn't land with me. TV show Joel is not just a murder-hobo. He had a family. He had a daughter. He built things. He is still building things (merchant is a useful profession and when performed honestly raises the standard of living of the people he interacts with. So his role as smuggler gets him credit for building a better life for people - as shown in this episode). He's also working as a day-laborer in the first episode. So telling TV show Joel that he's only good for murderin' folks that want to hurt
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Feb 1, 2023 02:50
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This is where people need to not tell people about the game. There is a lot of discernment that goes on here and game people need to stay in the spoiler thread when mentioning anything about character motivations because they may come up later to surprise people in flashbacks, etc. I only "correct" things with "has this been clearly shown in the show?" If it hasn't, I don't comment. Show things may be shown out of order from game things. Be careful.
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Feb 1, 2023 02:58
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Xiahou Dun posted:O I can guarantee that a vocal subset would be very happy to call a hypothetical woman a whore for a variety of reasons. Or even without reasons!
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Feb 1, 2023 03:02
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Are there any violent video games where the protagonist doesn't murder hundreds of disposable people by the end of the game? It almost seems like an oxymoron, but hypothetically you could make a game that has combat but only as a last resort.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:12
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The various Snakes
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Feb 1, 2023 03:18
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Chamale posted:Are there any violent video games where the protagonist doesn't murder hundreds of disposable people by the end of the game? It almost seems like an oxymoron, but hypothetically you could make a game that has combat but only as a last resort. Do you mean as a choice? You could play the Dishonored games by doing a fairly minimal amount of murder if you wanted to.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:18
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Chamale posted:Are there any violent video games where the protagonist doesn't murder hundreds of disposable people by the end of the game? It almost seems like an oxymoron, but hypothetically you could make a game that has combat but only as a last resort. I mean Pokemon exists, so the former is pretty easy. For the latter, a basically all horror games that aren't action-horror. Like the Penumbra series.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:19
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