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I bet once it goes below 1nm the industry just moves to each company having their own made up names. “The Intel Alpaca Meadow” or “Samsung FalconCougarThunderbird” processes. Then they can compare within the company but not between each other. Not that fab geometry numbers have been all that comparable between manufacturers for a while anyway.
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Feb 1, 2023 07:46
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priznat posted:I bet once it goes below 1nm the industry just moves to each company having their own made up names. “The Intel Alpaca Meadow” or “Samsung FalconCougarThunderbird” processes. Yeah, we've been in "can't compare number across different fabs" territory for a long time. It's only going to get worse as they come up with different solutions for gate all around and so forth.
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Feb 1, 2023 07:52
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Feeling really good about being chosen for
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Feb 1, 2023 08:02
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priznat posted:I bet once it goes below 1nm the industry just moves to each company having their own made up names. “The Intel Alpaca Meadow” or “Samsung FalconCougarThunderbird” processes. the next node after this one is already scheduled to be "Intel 20A". Intel 20A comes at the same time as TMSC and Samsung 2nm, of course. It's the same number either way after all. Thundercougarfalconbird.
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Feb 1, 2023 08:06
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mmkay posted:Feeling really good about being chosen for Man, I absolutely feel for you and sorry to hear that. But on the other hand, as having the better part of 2-decades of employment, I almost wish I had the severance package given todays news.
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Feb 1, 2023 08:42
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Kazinsal posted:As soon as someone breaches that 1nm barrier, fab process marketing names are going to get even stupider than the barely-adjacent-to-real-measurements ones that they're currently using. I can 100% see marketing people refusing to call something an 800 pm process because 800 is too big a number and will make their tech look twenty years obsolete. Maybe a transistor density per core or a per-die average would make more sense - at least that's a number-go-up.
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Feb 1, 2023 11:20
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Man, I absolutely feel for you and sorry to hear that. But on the other hand, as having the better part of 2-decades of employment, I almost wish I had the severance package given todays news. No worries, I thankfully got a signed offer pretty quickly in a related field. I'm a bit sad my 10 year tenure ends like this, but tbh the last 2-3 months have been hilarious in an increasingly  way.
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Feb 1, 2023 12:40
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I'm curious how they are going to do that paycut, seeing that our team is in a country that requires employer or union agreement for that. Hoping that payroll will nope out, like they usually do when it would be in our benefit.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:27
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Beef posted:I'm curious how they are going to do that paycut, seeing that our team is in a country that requires employer or union agreement for that. Hoping that payroll will nope out, like they usually do when it would be in our benefit. not intel, but when [my employer] tried to do paycuts in 2008-2009 and given that I'm in not-the-US with different labor laws, they had us sign a legal agreement that we were consenting to the pay cuts, thereby making it completely above-board of course, this came with a very strong internal influence campaign from leadership. lots of one-on-ones, town halls, and guilt-tripping, lots of guilt-tripping, about how you needed to "take one for the team" and have everyone hang together
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Feb 1, 2023 15:31
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Just lol at grade 7s getting a paycut. Might as well have announced cuts to the free fruit program too. They were always bruised bananas last time I went on site though, I figured they were already free from somewhere else.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:10
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So  , but it's still maddening how people who are supposed to have extensive educations in business and management still think starving the goose that lays golden eggs is the best thing to do when the eggs get smaller.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:22
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:The current nanometer verbiage is already complete and utter nonsense and bears no relationship with the manufacturing process. I always felt like model years make sense for this kind of thing (not just the process technology, but also the processor SKUs themselves) but I assume that's a nonstarter because consumers don't want to buy and/or marketing doesn't want to try to sell something that could be perceived as "last year's model".
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Feb 1, 2023 17:27
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https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-in-talks-with-pc-partners-over-20-price-cuts-for-alder-lake-cpus-report What the gently caress is going on. They just hiked prices a few weeks ago and now they are cutting them.
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Feb 1, 2023 18:38
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Same poo poo stores do all the time. Raise prices, then put the stuff “on sale” at the original price, hope consumers rush to buy thinking they’re getting a deal
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Feb 1, 2023 19:23
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The person in charge of the price hike has been sacked or something? The drop makes more sense at least. Already ordered a 13700 though.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:08
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priznat posted:I bet once it goes below 1nm the industry just moves to each company having their own made up names. “The Intel Alpaca Meadow” or “Samsung FalconCougarThunderbird” processes. 666 picometer Devil's Anus
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Feb 1, 2023 22:23
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And of course they also cut the Arc750 price, which I just bought. https://www.pcworld.com/article/1499123/intel-slashes-arc-a750-price-to-249-touts-substantial-gaming-improvements.html Meanwhile, AMD is enjoying its not-fab-haver status and is trickling out chips to keep the prices up: https://www.pcworld.com/article/1499957/amd-is-undershipping-chips-to-keep-cpu-gpu-prices-elevated.html
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Feb 1, 2023 22:40
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mmkay posted:Feeling really good about being chosen for It's not a layoff, it's a corporate people movement and lateral promotion to customer!
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Feb 2, 2023 02:45
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:It's not a layoff, it's a corporate people movement and lateral promotion to customer! I took the voluntary offered in November after ten years of working there, I’m bummed for my friends still there, I feel like plenty more of them would have signed up for the vsp if they knew this poo poo was coming
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Feb 2, 2023 06:51
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Yep, I probably would have. I’ve been there the better part of 2 decades, so I would have gotten a nice payout. My group specifically said we couldn’t volunteer though. Slashing the 401k match in half is a absolute kick in the balls once you compound that over a bunch of years until retirement. And this is like 3 years after they tried to gently caress everyone over from like <2008 by canning the minimum pension plan. I personally would have lost like 40k in retirement until Bob Swan decided he majorly hosed up and reversed course. I’m personally looking at like a 15-20% slash to my total compensation with the base pay cut and “suspension” of bonuses. That’s not even counting inflation going ham either. I’ve got 3 kids that are going into college over the next 4 years. Thanks Pat 
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Feb 2, 2023 07:27
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Paul MaudDib posted:yea but it's 5nm 2024 right? Intel is going to be on par with them anytime they get intel 4 working on a delivery product, and TSMC taiwan has already moved onto 3nm which is supposed to be the same as intel 4 and also pretty hosed up (enough that N3 is not N3B and the real thing is now N3E). Like both Taiwan and Intel are onto 3nm tier and TSMC Arizona at 5nm is obsolete even if it's ahead of schedule. The Arizona fabs are moving toward 3 nm initial and 2 nm for upcoming phases. It was originally going to debut at 5nm but TSMC revised their planning and decided to have Arizona be a leading-edge fab. Edit: Also, goondolences to the Intel goons; late stage capitalism sucks.
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Feb 2, 2023 09:18
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Love all the headlines talking about Gelsinger taking a 25% base pay cut when his base pay was less than 1% of his compensation in 2021.
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Feb 2, 2023 16:46
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Inept posted:Love all the headlines talking about Gelsinger taking a 25% base pay cut when his base pay was less than 1% of his compensation in 2021. "Thank you, Papa"
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Feb 2, 2023 16:52
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Inept posted:Love all the headlines talking about Gelsinger taking a 25% base pay cut when his base pay was less than 1% of his compensation in 2021. quote:Intel reported that its new CEO Pat Gelsinger earned $178.59 million in total compensation over an 11-month span from when he started in February 2021, until the end of the year. https://www.crn.com/news/components-peripherals/intel-ceo-pat-gelsinger-earned-179m-in-2021 Yikes. Why even do the PR when its that blatant
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Feb 2, 2023 16:53
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Tim Cook at least took a cut to total comp, with it coming out of his shares. His base salary of $3mil is untouched. It’s all performative of course at this level
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Feb 2, 2023 16:56
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lol at the Folsom open forum with Pat they have a demo table out with ARC. great time to shill company products
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Feb 2, 2023 19:16
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I dunno why anyone would buy an arc if they are aware that driver support could abruptly end if and when Intel cans it.
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Feb 2, 2023 19:33
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Starting to think that this Gelsinger guy was a lovely hire.
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Feb 2, 2023 21:18
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I'm flabbergasted that a company as profitable as Intel was for as long as it was has to resort to measures this desperate. They must be counting on people sticking around because of the general tech downturn.Kazinsal posted:As soon as someone breaches that 1nm barrier, fab process marketing names are going to get even stupider than the barely-adjacent-to-real-measurements ones that they're currently using. I can 100% see marketing people refusing to call something an 800 pm process because 800 is too big a number and will make their tech look twenty years obsolete.
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Feb 3, 2023 00:25
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https://twitter.com/SkyJuice60/status/1621101767567241222
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Feb 3, 2023 04:11
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Twerk from Home posted:https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-in-talks-with-pc-partners-over-20-price-cuts-for-alder-lake-cpus-report intel jebaited partners/distributors. see there's this big price increase coming next quarter, but order now and you can lock in the old price! lol jk we're cutting prices, no backsies not only that but it's a form of channel stuffing, in contrast to AMD and NVIDIA undershipping to try and debloat the channel, Intel just pulled forward a bunch of sales from Q1/Q2, at the higher prices no less. As tragic as their numbers were this quarter, bet they'd have been even worse without this. all that inventory probably needs to be written down after the price cuts, but it's gonna happen in partners/distributors books instead of intel's. instant transfer of millions of dollars from partners' balance sheets to intel. the OEMs have to be absolutely fuming over this, intel completely dicked them over in an absolutely stunning fashion, this is the friend who asked to borrow your rolex for the weekend and on monday you hear that they've resigned and left the country.  like honestly this will probably have serious repercussions down the line from just how blatantly and callously intel screwed them, who wants to be in business with someone like that? this is the type of stuff that will send partners into AMD's arms because at least they're not openly screwing them over. they won't not sell Intel stuff simply because AMD can't supply anything close to the volume Intel does, but they'll find ways to make their displeasure clear. OEMs will throw AMD some prestige projects, do their next fancy laptop on AMD instead or whatever, and they'll never trust intel farther than they can throw them again. this isn't blue-chips being blue-chips, this is Intel dicking their partners over with a phony price increase and undercutting the value of the inventory they just bought from you before it's even delivered. it's petty and unprofessional and probably amounts to pocket change in the grand scheme of things. the fact that they're doing this really says it all on the outlook with intel because the loss of goodwill alone will massively outweigh this in the long term. this is not something that a company that's healthy but having a bad quarter does, this is robbing your friends and relatives. Yeah business is business but you have to keep transacting with these people, and they're not gonna forget this poo poo. "wearing the pants in the relationship" (as AMD, NVIDIA, and Intel all do) is a completely different kettle of fish from openly setting out to move money from your partners' balance sheets onto yours by subterfuge. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 3, 2023 05:45
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I'm reminded of the part in the movie 8mm where the German illegal smut peddler tells Nic Cage and Joaquin Phoenix "It's more fun this way. I raise the price and you get pissed off. Take it or leave it."
BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 3, 2023 05:57
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WhyteRyce posted:holy poo poo, literal actual pay cuts now too? Didn't they just accept $4B in subsidies then flip it around by issuing $4B in dividends? Jesus Christ, how brazenly awful can you be?
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Feb 3, 2023 06:04
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Potato Salad posted:Didn't they just accept $4B in subsidies then flip it around by issuing $4B in dividends? in fairness, without the dividend their stock price will probably collapse even further, which screws their ability to borrow/etc. it's not like there's some glorious future on the horizon for intel such that their stock is gonna rise, the value it has right now comes from the fact that they reliably pay their dividends. they're just kinda screwed in the long term no matter what. they're screwing employees, partners, probably they won't be able to keep paying dividends forever and will eventually screw the shareholders too. condolences to the goons living through it, poo poo rolls downhill and it sucks, but Intel is a company clearly ablaze right now and nothing seems like it's going to change anytime soon. I think like boeing they'll never be allowed to go under, but, obviously people are still getting screwed over right now anyway. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 3, 2023 06:56
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quote:President Joe Biden will deliver his second State of the Union address on Tuesday 7 February – his first since the Republicans took control of the House of Representatives after November’s midterms. he was in last year's SOTU also
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Feb 3, 2023 07:06
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Paul MaudDib posted:in fairness, without the dividend their stock price will probably collapse even further, which screws their ability to borrow/etc. it's not like there's some glorious future on the horizon for intel such that their stock is gonna rise, the value it has right now comes from the fact that they reliably pay their dividends. Have several friends there on the process side, sucks that they get wrapped up in this because there's not really a whole lot of alternatives. Insane that the past two years were spent going "oh poo poo this is actually pretty important lets throw money at the industry" only for the companies to keep doing the same "lol thanks for the money, time to layoff and cut salaries anyway"
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Feb 3, 2023 07:10
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Shipon posted:Have several friends there on the process side, sucks that they get wrapped up in this because there's not really a whole lot of alternatives. Insane that the past two years were spent going "oh poo poo this is actually pretty important lets throw money at the industry" only for the companies to keep doing the same "lol thanks for the money, time to layoff and cut salaries anyway" To be fair, Intel (and others in the tech industry) are simply doing what a number of other industries in the US have been doing for quite some time now. Capitalism, etc.
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Feb 4, 2023 02:10
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Paul MaudDib posted:in fairness, without the dividend their stock price will probably collapse even further, which screws their ability to borrow/etc. it's not like there's some glorious future on the horizon for intel such that their stock is gonna rise, the value it has right now comes from the fact that they reliably pay their dividends. With Boeing at least the outsourcing is mainly done within the US or to other very safe and friendly countries due to the ITAR cloud hanging over aviation. What would Intel look like without the foundries? Or really vice versa, with Intel being the foundries....
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Feb 4, 2023 02:45
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It always seemed like Intel fabs and design were both hopelessly locked into their intertwined relationship instead of how the rest of the industry works. Like design not realizing you don’t get infinite steppings to get your design right and product out Maybe both sides have gotten better but knowing the same middle management rot and politics are still there at the very least they still have lots of internal resistance to making those improvements WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Feb 4, 2023 |
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Feb 4, 2023 03:35
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hobbesmaster posted:With Boeing at least the outsourcing is mainly done within the US or to other very safe and friendly countries due to the ITAR cloud hanging over aviation. I think intel won't allow that to happen, because they know one is strategically important and the other would just be a fabless semiconductor company with some not-leading products and a tenuous revenue stream. the IP side of Intel is failing but without those network chipsets and poo poo, who's buying all that fab capacity from the fab side? and it's an easy ticket to subsidies and pity projects etc. they truly are in the same position as AMD - what's going to be Intel's lifeboat that carries their revenue, like consoles/semicustom for AMD? datacenter, laptops, desktops, etc? the fabs are one of the very few unique things they have actually built out, they have a hope of datacenter recovery, they have the hope of a GPGPU stack that rivals CUDA to provide That Full-Stack Experience, etc. I think that's fabs, I think they're serious about both decoupling their IP design from their fab teams, and I think they're serious about Custom Foundry. Intel did announce a number of custom foundry wins on Intel 3, tbh I wouldn't put it as impossible that NVIDIA is one of them, perhaps even that "cloud, edge, and datacenter" customer lol. Intel offers you a risky advanced node, with their history of underdelivering in fab, but it's pretty advanced and they're desperate for a prestige partner to announce so they give you a good deal? I know there were rumors about NVIDIA eyeing samsung 3nm GAAFET for 50-series and it'd be tough with desktop because you're pushed back if Intel fumbles. But it'd be a neat play for advanced tegras for automotive or some other poo poo that can be pushed off for a year with a drop-in replacement part too. Just random speculation though. Or like, AMD IO dies or chipsets or some other low-cost poo poo they want to push off and diversify away from TSMC monoculture. But a lot of the delays are supposedly, *supposedly*, actually because of the IP teams now and not the fabs. The fabs are actually on-track and the IP teams are loving up repeatedly because Pat Gelsinger is very serious about node-portable IP design and the usual "can you go down the hall and fix it" poo poo isn't allowed anymore, both since no we have to sell this process/cell library to other people, and because you need to make it loving work on TSMC too, not nano-tune the design to intel. Think about the Sapphire Rapids delays and the 2.5gb network chip fuckups - those teams are the fuckups who can't get their poo poo together even after a literal dozen steppings and a bunch of metal layer redos, they probably were leaning on the fab teams to fix their problems and now they're playing normal difficulty and need more steppings/metal changes/etc. It kinda makes sense. (and I kinda wonder if some of sapphire rapids isn't integration problems rather than design problems, intel is seriously far behind in advanced packaging, meteor lake was suddenly pushed back and is now laptop-only and that's the other advanced-packaging thing they've got going on too.) So kinda ironically maybe in the long term it will be possible to cleave them apart like that. The IP teams want to use tiles and IP from other fabs anyway, the fabs want to take other customers, maybe eventually Intel can spin it off. But I don't think they have any other compelling software or hardware advantage. They're behind AMD in advanced packaging (both IP and practical experience), which will impact fab appeal too. and tbh they're behind in core design in general, that is a loving fatass core compared to Zen3 and it's not all that much faster for using 2-3x the transistors. They're way behind NVIDIA in the GPGPU software story and their graphics side kinda just loving sucks and will continue to suck and burn money for the meantime. But again, it's really a strategic priority for full-stack and if they're gonna kill it they'll probably do it quickly. Going GPGPU-only or writing minimal vulkan/dx12 drivers and being like "use dxvk, we dgaf" is a possibility too. But like, it's not like they're making amazing datacenter chips or laptop chips or heck even any new desktop chips for the near future. Maybe Arc will be good someday, or maybe it'll be good for GPGPU someday. What's the survival story for Intel if it's not the fabs, what else do they have today that they can sell to keep the lights on while they work on other products? Sapphire Rapids actually is OK now that it's finally finally launching, there's emerald rapids which is some kind of refresh, then the next big tweak is supposed to be Granite Rapids next year? But like tbh Intel is gonna do OK in server if they're willing to price appropriately. Genoa is better, I'm not saying Sapphire Rapids is best in things that matter but it's a product that's competent enough to sell, and Intel has volume, in theory, once they get going. AMD has never been sized to dump chips on 80% of the market once they launch. It won't be as bad once datacenter gets back into gear probably. But like, the fabs are (theoretically) good to go, they let them book revenue today, and they let everyone derisk the TSMC monoculture that has evolved. Intel isn't only selling Intel and isn't completely hosed if Intel mis-executes, everyone else gets to put something on a node that's not TSMC, especially since TSMC kinda hosed up with N3B (b for bad). Samsung is another possibility, they're supposedly doing really well with GAAFET and may pass TSMC soon, but they seem to be bigger fuckups than Intel at times too. I'm actually very excited about that Sierra Forest thing, the nextmont e-cores in that are supposed to be around ice lake performance per-core, and you get up to like 528 of them or something (on the XCC quad-chiplet package, which may be canceled, but definitely 228 or more or something like that on a 2-chiplet version). fuckoff-huge infinity-core processor is extremely my poo poo lol, that thing would be a fantastic container host etc, and I love Xeon Phi conceptually at least. I loving loved denverton on paper too, but it's just too old these days. But you can throw RDIMMs on that poo poo and it was a super-efficient 16-core Airmont iirc, like a turbo atom that you can stuff 128GB into. I loved Kabini (Athlon 5350) and Airmont and Goldmont, I've always wanted more. Xeon-D was cool too, just way too expensive. It's also Intel's eventual route away from the gigacores that raptor lake/etc have turned into, just much more area efficient. Much like Intel moved away from Netburst... they may eventually move away from Coves, and grow Monts upwards. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Feb 4, 2023 |
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