|
grassy gnoll posted:At least we got the core and the supplement for that one. The campaigns would have been nice, but eh, at least it's not Kamigakari. We got the core for Kamigakari too. Quite the ride.
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 22:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 02:11 |
|
|
BTW, if you want to look at Cities Without Numbers (the cyberpunk version of Worlds/Stars Without Number, the beta is available to backers in one of the updates (and they've said to pass it on to folks who would be interested, the kickstarter is currently going on) I want to play this at some point I think
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:14
|
|
|
SirFozzie posted:Re: Comparing D&D fans to those who only play Dark Souls, I think with the vast swaths of d20-style settings, it's closer to "I only play RPG's
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:16
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:Magic: plenty of posters right here on this forum play their one format and are quite certain all the other formats are trash, or for babies, or insanely expensive, or all three. They like to deride their fellow posters for playing the bad formats or spending their money differently. Related Hot Take: Anybody who is whining about people only playing D&D, who also only play Magic and not other awesome CCG/LCGs, is a hypocrite. Epi Lepi posted:Honestly either of these would be great thread titles. Yeah, I would struggle to pick.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:19
|
|
|
Rip android netrunner
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:25
|
|
|
CitizenKeen posted:I understand the realities, but I think it's also rather telling that you listed all these broad hobbies and then "Magic". Not "competitive card games" or "collectible card games" or whatever. You've already sliced that hobby down to just the one thing to begin with. Except that getting into a different LCG/CCG actually is as expensive and time-consuming as D&D players imagine getting into another RPG is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:28
|
|
|
Dexo posted:Rip android netrunner agreed. that game was the poo poo
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:31
|
|
|
Really, I think the issue isn't "people who only play D&D" and more "D&D crowding out everything else", with the upshot of the latter being that you get way more people who only play D&D than people who, say, only play CoC-based stuff or PbtA or GURPS or Traveller or World of Darkness or whatever (all examples I have actually encountered). It's one thing to get into woodworking and decide you are only interested in whittling and don't care for the rest of the hobby, it's another to genuinely not realise that there is a rest of the hobby (a thing more attributable to Big Whittling and its well-honed PR campaign, not to you), it's a third thing to only do whittling and be hostile to other people bugging you to try other poo poo because they're being obnoxious about it after you expressed your satisfaction with whittling (a perfectly fine way to be, they are the assholes), and a fourth thing to only do whittling and regard the entire rest of the hobby (or even individual segments of the hobby) as being illegitimate or unworthy (a flavour of rear end in a top hat which absolutely exists in the D&D fanbase, but also exists in the non-D&D fanbase).
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:32
|
|
|
admanb posted:Except that getting into a different LCG/CCG actually is as expensive and time-consuming as D&D players imagine getting into another RPG is. Time consuming? Maybe. If people say they only have time for one RPG and it's D&D, fine. Expensive? Absolute bullshit. Keyforge was/is $10. Pagan: Fate of the Roanoke is $40. Android Netrunner is free.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:42
|
|
|
Dexo posted:Rip android netrunner Splicer fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Feb 1, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:45
|
|
|
w00tmonger posted:agreed. that game was the poo poo It's still getting new cards.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:47
|
|
|
Yeah I picked up the null signal system gateway + 2021 system update pack before Christmas, here's my first time play experience with it:Splicer posted:So my wife (runner) and I (corp) played our first game and it was a hit! Whoever came up with the intro decks is a hilarious troll. Game highlights:
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2023 23:55
|
|
|
I am confused at people in the last page saying that PbtA games require some kind of new way of thinking or paradigm. They are traditional games. You play them the same way you play DnD or Vampire or whatever. GM describes the scene. GM asks what you do. You respond. GM responds. If something you say would trigger some kind of rule (I search, I attack, I intimidate) you roll the appropriate rule and interpret. While there's some player input based on how they describe the action and what the move allows, the GM narrates the end result. And then GM asks what you do, player responds, etc. The only big exception is that many pbta games expect some level of shifting alliances or PCs working at cross-purposes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 00:50
|
|
|
PbtA games, at least the few I've played and based on how people talk about the genre at large, assume way more player buy-in (or player agency, depending on whether you see it as cool or annoying) up front than any non-PbtA game I've played. I think most players (specifically players, not GMs) will approach a new D&D campaign as plopping their character into a preexisting world, maybe lightly colored by their own background but mostly established, and having their characters respond to stimuli tossed at them. This is pretty different from my experiences with PbtA where the players are expected to collaborate to design a setting and lore, and to continue doing so as the game goes on. This is a Very Cool Thing in my opinion but it's 100% more involved than my 4e game where I showed up each week and put my heart into playing my character but was never asked things like "and how do the Elves feel about the Gnomes as a culture" or asking me to set the scene for the party as they escort their caravan through the forest. Those are very much "things the GM does" in most people's eyes, and at least some PbtA games explicitly ask the GM to push this onto the players.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 01:31
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:It's still getting new cards. Wait what? I thought it was a dead game at this point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 01:48
|
|
|
Finster Dexter posted:Wait what? I thought it was a dead game at this point. Nope! It got picked up by the fans, who have continued to develop more expansions and a revised core set: https://nullsignal.games/
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 01:52
|
|
|
Lemon-Lime posted:Nope! It got picked up by the fans, who have continued to develop more expansions and a revised core set: https://nullsignal.games/ Oh ok, much like the Decipher Star Wars CCG, except actually publishing physical cards that can be bought? Pretty stinking cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 01:55
|
|
|
The whittling / Madden comparisons miss that you don't need a Whittling Master or Dungeon Madden and multiple other participants. By virtue of its unchecked dominance, D&D makes it harder for people to get into other games. A person who only carves birds doesn't make it more difficult for me to carve foxes. Every person who only plays D&D does, because it enables a space where you can only play D&D. It's like releasing sterile insects to control an insect population.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 01:57
|
|
|
moths posted:Dungeon Madden and multiple other participants.. "Now you see Jim, what the wizard should do is verify the room is clear of allies before throwing a fireba- oh nope he just threw it in there. Geez Jim. Ya hate to see such a fresh faced team just be dominated like that. A real shame that, especially this early in the season." "That it is John, that it is."
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 02:49
|
|
|
That's just Blood Bowl
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 02:54
|
|
|
Leperflesh posted:Being someone willing and interested in trying out every aspect of a hobby is the rarity. My own main hobby (fire manipulation) has several running jokes about how people actually do have a tendency to constantly pick up new stuff and expand the breadth of their engagement specifically because it's fairly exceptional. Even with the major divisions (held, thrown, breathed) you might never cross over yourself to one of the other categories but you will probably know a bunch of people who do. But a part of that is that meaningful engagement with the community is based on constant learning and improvement and either showing off some cool new thing you learned, or learning some cool new thing from other people, so as stuff gets harder the idea of moving laterally gets a lot more appealing. Not really applicable to gaming hobbies in any way I can think of, I guess. bewilderment posted:They are traditional games. You play them the same way you play DnD or Vampire or whatever. They absolutely are not played the same, if you're playing them correctly. That's actually a huge part of their appeal, for me. I love having that heavy player involvement in world building they focus on, both as player and gamemaster. If you try to play it like most folks play D&D I can't imagine that being particularly fun for anyone, and I think most D&D players would get frustrated with someone who tried to play D&D like PbtA. Finster Dexter posted:Star Wars CCG Speaking of Star Wars CCGs, there was one I really liked that involved placing location cards and having characters move between the locations and I remember literally nothing else from it other than that I enjoyed it and no one else ever wanted to play. Oh and the cards had like... red and blue lightsaber ratings instead of numbers? Late 90s or early 2000s, I think. Anyone know which one that was? GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Feb 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 02:55
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:My own main hobby (fire manipulation) has several running jokes about how people actually do have a tendency to constantly pick up new stuff and expand the breadth of their engagement specifically because it's fairly exceptional. Even with the major divisions (held, thrown, breathed) you might never cross over yourself to one of the other categories but you will probably know a bunch of people who do. But a part of that is that meaningful engagement with the community is based on constant learning and improvement and either showing off some cool new thing you learned, or learning some cool new thing from other people, so as stuff gets harder the idea of moving laterally gets a lot more appealing. This kinda sounds like Warhammer 40k Conquest. I miss it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 03:00
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:
I play them like I play DnD because I involve my players in DnD worldbuilding too. Like, I'm in a Pathfinder 2e game so I'm chatting with my GM about how the local nomadic elves work with the sedentary towns they pass near and how that impacts my character because he's a half-elf. Yes, it's an Adventure Path, so a whole bunch of stuff is set and neither I nor my GM is particularly interested in changing swathes of it to accommodate my character. But even a detailed setting has plenty of blank space to say stuff like "yeah so I have one mum and two dads because it's normal for half-whatevers around here" or "yeah my catfolk culture is really into fine clothes and food". edit: Again, using that AP - there's a simple bit where the PCs are asked who they're inviting to their graduation ceremony (so you bring in the cultures as a part of worldbuilding); and that ceremony involves making a mask (something the PC has control over) and then the player also gets to say how that mask changes in a way they didn't expect, to seed some room for greater character growth if they want it. triple edit: I am not saying you should play PbtA like it's DND. I'm saying, you will improve your DnD games if you play them like PbtA, because the 'paradigm' of PbtA and getting your players to give a poo poo works for most other games too. bewilderment fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Feb 2, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 03:14
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:Speaking of Star Wars CCGs, there was one I really liked that involved placing location cards and having characters move between the locations and I remember literally nothing else from it other than that I enjoyed it and no one else ever wanted to play. Oh and the cards had like... red and blue lightsaber ratings instead of numbers? Late 90s or early 2000s, I think. Anyone know which one that was? It was later put out with the Star part (and license) filed off as "Wars" but obviously didn't go anywhere and then Decipher had their entire company embezzled out from under them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 03:54
|
|
|
Here you have it from the horse's mouth: https://twitter.com/lumpleygames/status/1620412513119784961?t=pIAFGrv8eB4DdJ94KFnlGQ&s=19
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 04:00
|
|
|
Dexo posted:Rip android netrunner hyphz posted:Everything that’s true is also sad.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 04:23
|
|
|
Shrecknet posted:That was the Decipher Star Wars CCG Oh poo poo so that was the one they were talking about. I honestly thought I was the only one who even remembered it, I just assumed it must have been the dozen or so other ones. Also I love building decks in all CCGs that let me do fun stuff that isn't winning the game, so that tracks. Thanks for the link, sad that they went under this way but an interesting read.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 04:24
|
|
|
Jimbozig posted:Here you have it from the horse's mouth: https://twitter.com/lumpleygames/status/1620412513119784961?t=pIAFGrv8eB4DdJ94KFnlGQ&s=19 Yeah, a smart Pbta MC will ask the players questions but they're not required to do so.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 05:23
|
|
|
Anarcho-Commissar posted:That's just Blood Bowl XCrawl
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 06:34
|
|
|
Main thing I remember about the Decipher Star Wars CCG was they had a bunch of items that could only be used by the main characters. Luke's lightsaber might be pretty strong, but only if you have Luke. You DO have that rare hero card, right? Better buy more packs. That said my brother and I got one box of cards and had fun playing Basic Rebels vs Basic Stormtroopers. When everyone's on the same level of junk it was fun, I'd have hated going against someone who invested (or got lucky) enough to have an actual deck.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 06:37
|
|
|
Yeah for the longest time the main characters were rares and there were cards that only worked with them. Overall the game had a problem with cards only working with specific other cards (one of the expansions introduced a “Bounty” system by which you could capture enemy characters and gain Force for turning them in but good luck having all the cards needed for that to happen.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 08:43
|
|
|
RE: Card game talk. Hey, if anyone wants to talk about Netrunner including the NSG stuff, there's a thread for it. Also, if people want to talk about other old school CCGs, there is also now a thread for that as well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 08:50
|
|
|
I think a lot of the confusion about PbtA and prep comes from the fact that a) AW is a much more specific system than people consider it to be, and b) “prep” in DnD adjacent games can mean statting and mapping encounters which is much less of a thing in that style. What I mean by a), for example, that AW has the “open your mind to the maelstrom” move which acts as a combination of a “hint roll” and a general escape button for the PCs, and an invitation for the GM to shake the story up in a positive sense. But if your setting doesn’t have a “maelstrom” then the move makes much less sense, but simply taking it out impacts the system as a while.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 15:50
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:
That only works if the players want to get involved like that. I have tried and tried, but most of them do not.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 16:05
|
|
|
BlackIronHeart posted:Yeah, a smart Pbta MC will ask the players questions but they're not required to do so. They absolutely ARE required to ask the players questions. It's just not required that they ask questions about collaboratively building the setting. You can just ask your players what their characters think and do and how they respond to things. The tweet he was replying to used the word non-immersionist and I think that's part of why Vincent wanted to push back a bit - there is a lot of stuff in Apocalypse World that supports immersion. The rule about never saying the name of the move you're using, for instance. And many of those things were dropped in other PbtAs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 16:39
|
|
|
Hey it's page 1000 everybody wooo
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 16:57
|
|
|
Hearing that multiple different companies (Paizo, Goodman, Pinnacle, Chaosium) are full-on selling out of print runs is making me very happy. Finally, D&D is the rising tide that lifts all boats!
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 16:59
|
|
|
I think missing from the last couple of pages of the convo is the fact that people playing dnd is not just "picking a niche in the hobby"; its directly involved with how ttrpgs work as a market, who the market lead is and what's its share and how they have a marketing apparatus to keep this as is. The wrestling comparision is very apropos bc for a long time I only thought of it as equivalent to WWE (since that was the only form Ive been exposed to) and only recently my wife showed me the indie scene and then AEW and I went "Ohh wrestling can actually be fun and cool" and now Im watching wrestling regulary and went to some live events. And the state of WWE being a massive thing that eats and/or belittles its competition is 100% intended and designed, not just "aww shucks people just like what they like I guess"
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 17:21
|
|
|
What always hitches me on PBTA games is that the first thing anyone ever taught me about them is "As a player, you don't pick moves during play. You just say what your character does, and the GM will tell you what moves to roll." So my first thought was "Wow, lot of pressure on the GM to remember all these." Then I actually played it, and tried to follow that structure, only it immediately started bugging me whent he GM would take an obvious clue for a roll, something simple like "I'll use my plant powers to wrap his legs in giant vines that spring from the ground!" and the GM, to their immense credit, is very vested in the ongoing gameplay so they just say like "He immediately responds with a blast of fire that burns them away and shouts..." and so on. Which theoretically is what the gameplay model is supposed to turn into! Why use rules when the story is so good? Except that whatever move my character should have prompted was going to have rewards and narrative stuff attached to it, like I was gonna get some strings or hearts or gizmotrons or whatever the local currency is, and now I'm not. So my rule liking hindbrain spends most of any combat just marking down when I should have been rolling dice and how I would have done it better. It's probably just me, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 17:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 02:11 |
|
|
theironjef posted:What always hitches me on PBTA games is that the first thing anyone ever taught me about them is "As a player, you don't pick moves during play. You just say what your character does, and the GM will tell you what moves to roll." So my first thought was "Wow, lot of pressure on the GM to remember all these." I think what put me off of PbtA stuff was when "Success with complications" usually had complications that were worse than if I did nothing. I'm sure that's very much a GM-dependent aspect of it, though.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2023 17:51
|
|
