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Mokelumne Trekka posted:is it inappropriate to ask if an interview will be in person or zoom after being offered a time? I responded by email yes for the time and asked this yesterday, but have not heard back yet. interview is tomorrow so starting to worry I said something wrong. Uh no "Where should I be" is a very standard question. Did they give an address or anything?
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Jan 25, 2023 17:53
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ok, they followed up. It turns out they are in a different time zone so they probably didn't even see my reply until today. I have not dipped my toes into job hunting for several years (currently working, just looking elsewhere) so I am out of the game and need to take a chill pill.
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Jan 25, 2023 18:05
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Mokelumne Trekka posted:is it inappropriate to ask if an interview will be in person or zoom after being offered a time? I responded by email yes for the time and asked this yesterday, but have not heard back yet. interview is tomorrow so starting to worry I said something wrong. That is completely appropriate and there is no reason for someone to say "nevermind" about an interview because you've proactively asked for clarity on when and where it is.
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Jan 25, 2023 22:58
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Hi thread. I just had an interview with a hiring manager today and it went well  I wondered if anyone else is using tips from career coach Andrew LaCivita? I found him on YouTube this week and have been devouring his videos. So far his tips have worked very well, was hoping to compare notes here.
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Jan 27, 2023 01:11
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I am about to do my second hire ever for our company, and I need some advice. I know this is from the different side of the table than what is usual in this thread, but I judged this the best place to ask. I apologize if I was wrong about this. Basically, we have received very few applications and even fewer good ones. Long story short, right now I have only one promising (Based on CV and cover letter) applicant coming tomorrow for an interview. (Had two but the other one bailed at the last moment  )Am I making a terrible mistake if we hire this person after interviewing only one candidate? Provided of course that they don’t seem terrible at the interview. This is pretty high stakes stuff for me as a small business owner. If we hire someone really terrible, we’re hosed bad. If we can’t find anyone, we’re hosed bad when the current one finally resigns under the heavy workload. We absolutely need to find someone reasonably competent and reasonably motivated. (Doesn’t need to be a superstar, just “pretty good” and dependable). Also since I’m very, very inexperienced in hiring, I’m wondering how “good” I should feel about a candidate to feel safe in hiring them. The job I am hiring for requires quite a bit of trust, as the employee will be operating independently and I won’t be there to witness their interactions with the customers, and they will have quite a bit of financial and legal responsibility as well. But I will stress that the amount of trust required isn't on a really, really high level, but still substantial. My last, first hire ever turned out to be “ok”, handled the job reasonably well and while their motivation could be better, I trust them to do their job. This is incredibly stressful as a wrong hire could cost us tens of thousands of euros, any advice is much appreciated!  (Especially from any HR people)
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Jan 29, 2023 12:29
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May I ask why you’re getting so few candidates? Is the position highly technical or something? (I’m not in HR, just curious!)
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Jan 29, 2023 13:53
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Your posting probably sucks. Also, I’m reading between the lines here, but you seem to be asking a lot. You want someone who will work independently for a small business and deal with finances and such. You also seem preoccupied with your risk and the potential negative impact to your business. This may be coming across to your candidates. The burden of risk in a lovely job is disproportionally born by the candidate, not the business. When you focus only on your risk in the hiring process, you communicate something about what type of boss you will be. A lot of good candidates are wary of small business owners and will be quick to write you and the job off if they perceive bad vibes. I’d go ahead and interview the candidate. But I’d also take a hard look at the posting to make sure you’re not coming across as overly demanding and repost. If you’re concerned about your current employee who is overworked, involve them in the decision so they can see the situation more clearly. Also, proactively take work off their plate so they don’t burn out and leave you truly hosed. This is your job as a manager and you’re currently failing at it. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 14:12
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dpkg chopra posted:May I ask why you’re getting so few candidates? Is the position highly technical or something? Excellent question. I’ll go into more detail: The position is not highly technical, but I’d say a moderate level of expertise is required (legal & business knowledge). We would prefer to have a candidate that has base level knowledge in our field. Basically, it is possible to take an enthusiastic young person who doesn’t know anything and train them to do the job, and this is what we did with our first hire. They were only 19 (lmao I know but it worked out) when we hired them, but they were extremely enthusiastic at the start and we trained them. However, this was a major undertaking we’d rather avoid this time around, both because of how much resources it takes but also because we need someone who can take a high-level of responsibility pretty quickly. From scratch to full competence would take maybe one and a half or two years, and its just too long a time. If we hire someone with tangential experience on the subject or appropriate education, I believe they could be fully effective after about 3 to 6 months. I have listed our posting on a few large job listing sites that offer free options, so I guess that is a reason, we probably don’t get much visibility. Unfortunately, other sites charge absolutely insane rates for simple listings, something we cannot afford at the moment. Or, they would be reasonable but would require us to commit to listing several jobs a year, which we are too small to do. Ultimately, we do get a trickle of applications, but about 30 % are complete trash and sent to the bin immediately. Next 30 % seem like all right employees in general but do not seem like a good fit for our industry, and another 30 % seem like a fit but would require aforementioned training from scratch. The last 10 % are motivated and have relevant experience or education, but because we have so little applications in total, I only have one interviewee scheduled after the other bailed out. Its also been just 9 days, am I panicking too early? (Now I’m starting to feel like it.)Anyway, jesus christ I have learnt to start employee hunting way earlier. Dik Hz posted:Your posting probably sucks. For sure, we have reduced their workload by a ton, and the situation has improved. Our industry has wildly fluctuating demand, and predicting it is really hard, and the situation caught us by surprise. But yes, I screwed up as a manager and next time I definitely wont be making the same mistake. I just want to make it clear that I am not trying to grind people to dust, I very much want people to stay happy at work. And this person could definitely get another job but has been with us for years at this point, I know they have generally been pretty happy until demand surged recently. Because this is the first job posting I have ever written, I'm sure it could be more enticing. However, I purposely tried to craft it in a way that doesn't seem too demanding in terms of qualifications, as we want to keep the option open to go for the motivated-but-inexperienced person. I also read it through and the posting does not give off negative or crazy vibes. (I'm just worrying here on my own) Being a small company could definitely scare off employees though, but that's out of my control.
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Jan 29, 2023 14:37
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Are you listing the compensation in the posting?
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Jan 29, 2023 15:16
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Dik Hz posted:Are you listing the compensation in the posting? No, and this is normal in my country. I can probably get more applications in a pinch by expanding how much the job posting is visible, but I'm mostly wondering if I hire a candidate that seems good after one interview if I'm making some big mistake. Like if I am not getting enough of a reference point and will easily make a bad call. Now that I have pondered on this, I'm probably overthinking this. Most people want to do an all right job, and an all right job is enough for us.
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Jan 29, 2023 15:23
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I would not make a crucial hiring decision based on one interview. Ask for references and put in the time and effort to dig into them. Usually this turns up nothing unusual, but once in a while it can dig up a red flag. It's worth the diligence.
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Jan 29, 2023 15:33
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Eric the Mauve posted:I would not make a crucial hiring decision based on one interview. I'm sorry, I meant interviewing one individual. But yeah good point still about the references
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Jan 29, 2023 15:36
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Keisari posted:No, and this is normal in my country. I can probably get more applications in a pinch by expanding how much the job posting is visible, but I'm mostly wondering if I hire a candidate that seems good after one interview if I'm making some big mistake. Like if I am not getting enough of a reference point and will easily make a bad call.
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Jan 29, 2023 15:38
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Keisari posted:I am about to do my second hire ever for our company, and I need some advice. I know this is from the different side of the table than what is usual in this thread, but I judged this the best place to ask. I apologize if I was wrong about this. Hey I've been exactly in your shoes and thought these same thoughts. I'm 4 years into them now. It hasn't really gotten easier for me after 15ish hires. I've definitely made some bad, okay, and good hires and so will you. Some thoughts you did ask about : Yes it is okay to hire the one candidate you found to be worth interviewing. You still need to do a lot of due diligence on them...maybe even more. Most of the hires I make are from the first week of the job posting. If you have a bad feeling about them. DO. NOT. HIRE. THEM. Listen to your bad feelings about candidates. When youre small, just because one might quit soon, don't hire a bad one. If you think "this person seems kinda dumb" and you dont like working with dumb people, DO NOT HIRE THEM. That said, regarding feeling "good", do you know enough about what makes a good candidate to trust that your feeling of them being good = them being good? I have had good results hiring engineers because I am one. Had good results with front office staff. I have had very mixed results hiring sales people and lawyers. Some thoughts you didnt ask about : Yes, the stakes are high when theyre the only person in that jobs and theres a lot of trust. Thats just how its gotta be. Train them, give them oversight and support at first and then let them start to take the reigns as they show they can do it. Hire slow, fire fast.
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Jan 29, 2023 15:55
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^ This is good advice about trusting your instincts. I'd like to add a little extra to that, though: be careful not to overly trust your instincts about people you're interviewing. Your brain is wired to feel most comfortable around the people who are most similar to you. But it's really better for an organization--and this is especially true the smaller the business or organization you're leading--to hire people who aren't like you, who have markedly different backgrounds, skills, and interests than you do. It gives the org a broader base of skills and experiences to work with, and adds valuable perspectives that help protect it from tunnel vision. That's as a purely practical consideration, apart from what should be obvious concerns about subconscious racism/ageism/etc. That's a long explanation of the simple truism that you shouldn't hire the person you feel you'd most enjoy hanging out with. That's the direction your instincts will tend to lead you but it will be unhealthy for your team. But the advice that if you have a gut feeling that something's wrong with a candidate, you should be inclined to listen to it, is good imo.
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Jan 29, 2023 18:28
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9 days is also probably not very long. Based on your breakdown you probably should also be interviewing some of the people your throwing away to see what's out there. I think your kinda looking for a unicorn.
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Jan 29, 2023 19:51
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Keisari posted:Basically, we have received very few applications and even fewer good ones. Long story short, right now I have only one promising (Based on CV and cover letter) applicant coming tomorrow for an interview. Lockback posted:Based on your breakdown you probably should also be interviewing some of the people your throwing away to see what's out there. I think your kinda looking for a unicorn. melon cat fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 21:38
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melon cat posted:
I have If someone is very good at interviewing, be cautious. Often these people will be great at giving me somewhat vague answers that address the question but dont contribute substantively to my understanding of them. The solution has been to start asking them for specifics. If they start dodging or cant give specific answers, no hire. For technical jobs like lawyer, engineer, accountant, SEO marketing, etc. push people to the limits of their knowledge on a few questions. This helps see how they reason and helps weed out the dilettantes and liars. EDIT: Actually it was 3 times. Once to an offer, once to 2nd interview and once to third interview. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Jan 29, 2023 |
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Jan 29, 2023 21:59
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CarForumPoster posted:Hey I've been exactly in your shoes and thought these same thoughts. I'm 4 years into them now. It hasn't really gotten easier for me after 15ish hires. I've definitely made some bad, okay, and good hires and so will you. Thanks! This helped me a lot. Especially the part where you've had a bad hire and you didn't end up bankrupt. Thanks to others too, you were a great help. I'm too exhausted after a >12 hour workday to answer every post in detail, but I read and pondered a lot on every post and they were super helpful.The interview went pretty well, I'll sleep on it and start checking references. Not a unicorn, but overall pretty good imo. Only thing that slightly worries me is that I got the impression they like to party quite a bit, but they are early twentysomething, so on-brand for the age group in my country. Young people like to party, I did as well ~back in the day~. Of course, as an employer I mostly care that it wont influence their work, and at this point I'm like 90 % sure it wont as they seemed like a go-getter otherwise. (With almost 5 years of like 70 % relevant experience, lmao) Edit: So yeah, its possible that I may have caught the unicorn. A karaoke singing unicorn, that I need to check isn't a donkey in disguise but yeah it looks like its gonna work out! What a relief. Keisari fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Jan 30, 2023 |
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Jan 30, 2023 18:32
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You got enough problems without adding additional random external irrelevant criteria like “do they like to party”
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Jan 30, 2023 21:00
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You got enough problems without adding additional random external irrelevant criteria like “do they like to party” Chisel this on a rock and send it to every HR person on the planet.
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Jan 30, 2023 21:13
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:You got enough problems without adding additional random external irrelevant criteria like “do they like to party” This is true. I'll chalk it up to inexperience, getting hung up on details that don't matter.
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Jan 30, 2023 21:35
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Keisari posted:This is true. I'll chalk it up to inexperience, getting hung up on details that don't matter. I don’t want to come across as too much of an rear end in a top hat so my apologies if this sounds harsh. But best practice is to determine how candidates will be evaluated before posting the job. Because that will likely influence how you write the job posting and where and how you post it. It also forces you to think ahead of time about what skills are essential, which are nice to have, and which are irrelevant. If you don’t do that until after you’ve read a resume or conducted an interview, you risk post-hoc confirming first impression biases rather than fairly evaluating candidates. Which results in poor hiring practices.
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Jan 30, 2023 22:15
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Keisari posted:This is true. I'll chalk it up to inexperience, getting hung up on details that don't matter. It's a trap a lot of people fall into, especially HR. You write down your criteria and then start interviewing and start adding a bunch more criteria. Its not unusual for that criteria to start to fall into "This person should remind me of me" which seems innocuous but that's how you get departments full of cis white men lead by, you guessed it. It's far and away the most common and most insidious unconscious bias. You look at someone and say "This guys looks like he parties too much", but maybe 5 years ago you wouldn't have said that. Now you're falling into an age bias. Maybe the problem is he looks like he goes to the "wrong" parties, now your introducing all sorts of cultural and potentially racial biases. And "is a homebody" was never part of your criteria until you saw the person. That should be a red flag for yourself. To be clear, I am not accusing you of any kind of bias, but this is why you get such a visceral reaction from those of us who've been around and seen terrible hiring practices. Don't compromise on your needs because you feel rushed but also don't start adding additional hurdles at the 11th hour when it can be impossible to determine the source of those hurdles.
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Jan 31, 2023 00:49
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You guys aren’t being rude at all, just direct, and I appreciate that. I mean, I am making some major loving decisions both for myself and another person, its important that they get judged fairly and based on merits. Both because it is the correct thing to do, and also so I don’t shoot myself in the nuts. So comments like “you’re currently failing as a manager because x, y and/or z” or “if you do this you will make poor decisions” are only appreciatedLockback posted:
 Oh my god, this was very revelatory. No, no I wouldn’t for sure. I would’ve just approved. And who knows, perhaps 5 years ago I would’ve worried about a 30something candidate lacking “that (youthful) energy”. Yes, it is age bias! I have been so laser-focused and prepared to stave off gender and racial biases that this one completely snuck on me. I’m aware that employers, for example, discriminate against black people due to hairstyle and women by viewing the same qualities negatively that they appreciate in a man. My failure was to treat ageism as “well I’ll just not rule out anyone based on their age lol” and holy poo poo those biases can be subtle and insidious. Great advice people, much appreciated!
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Jan 31, 2023 14:12
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I am currently an apprentice hearing instrument specialist. There is a licensing exam that for the life of me I just can’t pass. So I am looking for a new job. On interviews I am struggling to explain why I am looking for a new position. I have tried the looking to build a career with long term growth opportunity angle, but it doesn’t seem to be working. Should I bite the bullet and just tell the interviewer the real reason I am looking to make a job change? I’m worried it makes me look bad. Any different suggestions?
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Feb 1, 2023 17:01
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I guess it would depend on the industry, but if "not being able to pass a hearing instrument specialist exam" had absolutely no bearing on the job I was hiring for, it's way better to tell the truth. That seems like a really good reason to leave an apprenticeship. If you give vague, hand wavey answers I'm going to assume much worse than that. Is the problem that it's a tough exam, or is there something about it that in particular is tripping you up, like being able to pick up certain sounds or something (Sorry, I am just assuming what that entails). Because if it's the latter than really is absolutely no big deal. Even if it's just a tough exam it probably isn't a knock against you.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:24
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What would be good about the job you’re doing, besides career growth? Always focus on the positive, on their problems.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:31
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Lockback posted:Is the problem that it's a tough exam, or is there something about it that in particular is tripping you up, like being able to pick up certain sounds or something (Sorry, I am just assuming what that entails). Because if it's the latter than really is absolutely no big deal. Even if it's just a tough exam it probably isn't a knock against you. It’s just a tough exam. I’ve never had problems with tests or coursework before. But for whatever reason, no matter how much I study, I just can’t seem to make the connection to pass this thing.
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Feb 1, 2023 17:44
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You've spent x years as an apprentice, this job seems a departure. Why are you making this switch? I have, and while I enjoyed my time in that apprenticeship, it's becoming clear it's not a great fit for me. There is an exam that I am not able to get past and <something you like about new job that doesn't apply to old job>. Before I go further, I think it makes sense to pursue something with a better career trajectory and that would be a better fit for me, and also <another thing about new job>." Something like that. It's honest, it doesn't make it sound like you're trying to be vague to coverup a sexual harassment suit, and it positions you as thoughtful and looking forward to a new role.
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Feb 1, 2023 18:52
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Lockback posted:You've spent x years as an apprentice, this job seems a departure. Why are you making this switch? Wow that’s really good. Thank you.
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Feb 1, 2023 19:00
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So a job is asking me for 5 references minimum, and I can only really get 3 from my last/only real job. I know my immediate manager will give me an amazing reference, that's not really the issue, it's just getting to 5 relevant ones because others have moved on and I have no way of getting contact info or knowing if they would bother filling out the survey. It says "never" to list friends/acquaintances but I do have some that I have provided somewhat legitimate service to, but are my friends and related to me (by marriage). Should I list them or stretch to some ancient connection I can dig up somewhere? Should they tell the truth that they know me by relation or just say they are a client (which they sort of are). I built furniture for them/worked on their homes, which is in no way at all related to the job I did or am applying for (data science).
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Feb 1, 2023 20:55
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Five references is ridiculous. Call your friends and relatives clients and never look back.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:12
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I've got an interviewing from the other side question, based on feedback from an interview my company held this morning. Is reading prepared answers to expected questions from a script a recommended strategy in Hong Kong? I've found one result in English which suggests it is but since I don't speak any variety of Chinese I can't really dig into those sources. Given that the candidate's technical skills are fine for the role he's applying for it's such an odd thing to do that either he is really not confident in his English skills or someone told him that this is the way to interview back home and it doesn't transfer at all.
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Feb 3, 2023 16:18
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Arquinsiel posted:I've got an interviewing from the other side question, based on feedback from an interview my company held this morning. Is reading prepared answers to expected questions from a script a recommended strategy in Hong Kong? I've found one result in English which suggests it is but since I don't speak any variety of Chinese I can't really dig into those sources. Given that the candidate's technical skills are fine for the role he's applying for it's such an odd thing to do that either he is really not confident in his English skills or someone told him that this is the way to interview back home and it doesn't transfer at all.
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Feb 3, 2023 18:47
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Hoping to get some advice on including jobs on resume or not. Background: I'm in the tech industry and was at a large known gaming company for 7 years as a Product Manager, and then decided to leave to start my own company outside of industry. Ran my own company for 4 years, got burned out and decided to return about 3 years ago. The tech market was booming at the time, so I had a few offers to pick from and wanted to do something new. Took a PM job doing advanced analytics/machine learning in the resource industry, but turned out the team was made up of 90% consultants and I had very little impact. 6 months into that job I was offered a Head of Product job in the health tech industry, which I ended up leaving for. The role itself was great, managing team of PM, PO, and business analysts, but the pace of the company was mind numbingly slow compared to what I was used to (think 2+ year ideation, to dev, to customer feedback loop). I was offered a job as a Senior PM back in the game industry, which I ended up leaving for and have been at for over 2 years now. Now, as I'm going through and updating my resume I'm bit torn on what to include. Obviously two 6-month jobs back to back doesn't look great, but the skills/role that they covered are valuable (machine learning and people management). When I get to the interview stage I'm open and honest about the two roles and why they were short, which usually goes over well. But I'm wondering how many places I'm not making it to the interview stage because of the odd work history, and should I just axe those two roles and extend my self employed section (which was still running on the side). another loser fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 3, 2023 19:32
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Dik Hz posted:It’s poo poo technique by the interviewers. Ask probing follow up questions to get him off his script.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:06
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another loser posted:Hoping to get some advice on including jobs on resume or not. I don't think the 6 month roles back to back would look that bad, given its sandwiched between some longer runs. I think they would help more than hurt, especially for the breadth of experience. I'd have to imagine you're probably looking for like PM Director type roles at this point, and breadth is super important usually.
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Feb 3, 2023 22:25
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another loser posted:Hoping to get some advice on including jobs on resume or not. Product Management overall is so 'new' that titles and length of stints aren't huge issues. The story you need to focus on at this point is what you want, the IC track or the people leader track. You've got a lot of experience in both, and jumping around can leave a hiring manager confused on what your ideal position is. As a head of product myself, I'd want to know where you want to be: a product manager, or a product leader who wants to guide a team. Once you figure out what you want, you'll be able to craft your resume to pull the best of each experience
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Feb 4, 2023 02:51
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I'm in a situation that I haven't been in before, which is that I've been terminated from my job and I don't know how to handle this in interviews. I felt that their demands were unrealistic; they're very new to the world of data, and they wanted a fully automated salesforce ETL pipeline in a month, scripted entirely with python and MySQL. I was the only data engineer in the org, and I had no team and no one to consult with or bounce ideas off of. When I did my job interview with the supervisor, I told him that I didn't have any practice with python programming in my last job, so he should have known that I wouldn't be able to whip out code like a pro. The only other python guy there was too busy and my manager told me not to bother him. I was only with them for four months. On my last 1:1 my manager gave me a 4/5 and my resume shows that I've received promotions at other jobs in the past. Anyways! I'm sure an interviewer isn't going to want to hear all of that, but I just wanted to give some background. This is going to be an obvious question in interviews so I'd like to know the best way to deal with it. Thanks in advance!
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Feb 4, 2023 19:23
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