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Miftan posted:The only times on maddening where I felt there were too many reinforcements, it was because maddening just has a lot of units period. I don't think I've ever just sat there and mowed down wave after wave of them. There's usually one wave at an annoying time, maybe? Like, maddening has a ton of enemies, but I think rarely do they just show up out of the blue wave after wave. They're all just there and annoying and sometimes warp into you like assholes. Could be this. But I just noticed that every Maddening map in the final quarter was spawning around 4 reinforcements a turn minimum. Or gently caress me, Tiki paralogue which has 10 reinforcement waves of 4 dudes every three turns and the dragons have like 8 movement because of the ice tiles.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:34
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Tender Bender posted:Should I be upgrading the early weapons like iron and steel? On Hard Classic, Chapter 7 I think (just got to Brodia) and I've been super conservative with my blacksmithing because I don't have a sense for what I'll need later. I threw a few +1's on the special weapons like Ridersbane that don't seem to have better versions, and on Alear's Liberation, but that's about it. Yes. In general, later weapons will be heavier and less accurate. They're still good, especially on units with high Dex, Spd, and/or Bld, but they're not necessarily going to fully replace your iron and steel weapons. With a few refines, they stay usable all the way to endgame. Like I still have Chloe using a forged steel lance because silver weighs her down a bunch and she's plenty strong to kill with an upgraded steel lance anyway. You can also upgrade some iron and steel weapons into killer weapons, which can be useful as well. edit: and yes, fill your farmyard with dogs and you'll be swimming in forge materials
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Feb 3, 2023 20:35
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Tender Bender posted:Should I be upgrading the early weapons like iron and steel? On Hard Classic, Chapter 7 I think (just got to Brodia) and I've been super conservative with my blacksmithing because I don't have a sense for what I'll need later. I threw a few +1's on the special weapons like Ridersbane that don't seem to have better versions, and on Alear's Liberation, but that's about it. as for things to forge early game, id recommend daggers/fists if youre using yunaka or framme, and the 1-2 range weapons like hand axes and jaevlins. alear's liberation is also a good shout.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:35
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Tender Bender posted:Should I be upgrading the early weapons like iron and steel? On Hard Classic, Chapter 7 I think (just got to Brodia) and I've been super conservative with my blacksmithing because I don't have a sense for what I'll need later. I threw a few +1's on the special weapons like Ridersbane that don't seem to have better versions, and on Alear's Liberation, but that's about it. Absolutely, those are the weapons you should prioritize upgrading. Iron and Steel, along with throwing weapons, upgrades are way more cost efficient and useful for way longer than other ones. Especially knives, and if you wanna have fun, arts.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:37
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I mean on maps like Tiki's the reinforcements are pretty clearly there to put pressure on you if you're taking a long time to clear the map.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:38
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Thanks for the advice! Will get to upgrading.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:40
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I also think Tiki's map is a pretty clear outlier. It's a DLC map that's much larger than most maps in Engage and also has an especially huge number of reinforcements.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:41
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its also how the map worked in fe3, because its the map from fe3
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Feb 3, 2023 20:42
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There might be a numbers disparity between Hard and Maddening, but in Ch20, I had that same feeling at first of getting ground down by what felt like never ending waves of reinforcements that kept me from being able to engage with the boss because I took a few turns to try and get in an optimal position and then they started spawning. Then about like halfway in I decided to just rewind like 10 or so turns and yolo the boss and ended up clearing it before the reinforcements could really matter. Similarly, every Emblem Paralogue I’ve played basically has some kind of ‘gently caress you’ for playing too slowly, but is relatively straightforward if you play aggressively. Again, with the caveat that maybe Maddening numbers are tuned too tightly, but all throughout playing Engage I’ve felt it basically say ‘you can turtle and play safe if you want but we will ramp things up if you try’.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:43
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Endorph posted:its also how the map worked in fe3, because its the map from fe3 Yeah I assumed. The multiple switches to open various doors around a bigass palace map seemed pretty Old Fire Emblem to me, even having not played them myself 
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Feb 3, 2023 20:43
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Tender Bender posted:Should I be upgrading the early weapons like iron and steel? On Hard Classic, Chapter 7 I think (just got to Brodia) and I've been super conservative with my blacksmithing because I don't have a sense for what I'll need later. I threw a few +1's on the special weapons like Ridersbane that don't seem to have better versions, and on Alear's Liberation, but that's about it. If you think you need to, do it. If you think it sounds fun, do it. I haven't upgraded many weapons at all, and the game is fine, but I definitely can see where it would help a couple of units. You have a lot of tools to get out of the situations you get into. The smith is one of those tools. (And it is only one) Don't sleep on engraves. Engraves are ludicrously good. Endorph posted:i can somewhat understand where you're coming from in terms of enemies being beefy but that made taking them down while still moving quickly an exciting puzzle instead of 'a point blank volley person kills them.' if you use emblem rings aggressively instead of saving them all for the boss, use heavy weapons and eat the hit and then make up for that with chain guard/bonded shield/micaiah's aoe heals, etc, you can take out enemies efficiently instead of bunkering down. that to me is much more exciting and thrilling. This sounds pretty close to what I think I am feeling when I play this game. There's a seat of your pants quality to Engage that hits me just right.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:46
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Just copped this little number. No idea what to expect. I have no idea of the mechanics of RPG or whatever this is. All I know is I put my trust in nintendo.
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Feb 3, 2023 20:52
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Augus posted:I mean on maps like Tiki's the reinforcements are pretty clearly there to put pressure on you if you're taking a long time to clear the map. Okay there's a twofold problem with this idea. Firstly the reinforcements give experience, so it's genuinely very unclear that these are intended as soft timer reinforcements. Secondly, if you let the wave live on Maddening you're dead. The dragons will just kill you. The first time I played that map, I killed the first reinforcing wave and then tried to move on to another objective, only for the second wave to show up and kill everyone because my army was now out of position to handle two dragons. So I hung back and wait for the second wave to spawn, killed it, and tried moving on, only for the third wave to then spawn and do the same thing. If the intent is a soft timer, or pressure then waves that potentially lethal spawning like that don't actually help with that intent. Mainly I don't think we can discount paralogues as references because they're a full third of the game and represent a large part of the experience. Perhaps if Leif's paralogue wasn't a reference to a map with a massive number of horses I would be less frustrated by the fact that he reinforces 3 horses per turn for 6 turns. Notty posted:There might be a numbers disparity between Hard and Maddening, but in Ch20, I had that same feeling at first of getting ground down by what felt like never ending waves of reinforcements that kept me from being able to engage with the boss because I took a few turns to try and get in an optimal position and then they started spawning. I can't comment on Chapter 20 specifically, I found the boss and deleted his health bar turn 1 then drove my entire army down one side of the map for an easy win, so there at least I never saw any reinforcement waves. What I can say is that if you have enough aggro you can beat out the number of enemies spawned per wave so that you never end up on that sinking ship. And unless they have the debuff that prevents you from getting experience, you know that those waves are limited. There are cases where that's not true, aggroing the boss on 21 spawns way too many enemies, but also you've aggroed the boss, so you're deleting the boss that turn anyway. Veryslightlymad posted:Natural 20: I think this is a pretty elegant way of summing it up. There's definitely more to think about at a tactical level. e.g. getting incremental damage out with longbow positioning etc. But broadly this wasn't taxing mentally so much as it just took a while. So while I was entertained in the early parts, by the end I was very much "Oh I just put Anna here, equip longbow, yawn, I've done this same thing a thousand times." And the cost of this complexity was my characters feeling individually powerful. I feel that SP also just significantly limits interesting build options. Almost everyone went, Lineage, Mentorship, Canter and then some variation of Hit+x/Dual Assist/Speed +x since the first pair allow you to field more characters and the latter skills feel incredibly undercosted relative to their utility. Edit: All that being said there were some very funny things, like short circuiting map 25 by warping my entire army to the right hand side of the map. Natural 20 fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 3, 2023 21:12
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maybe we're just coming at this from completely opposite perspectives because i dont really think fe characters should feel individually powerful, or there should only be one or two characters who are characterized by that feeling, or it should be reserved exclusively for the last couple of maps in the game engage makes characters feel powerful in small bursts/specific scenarios with the engage system which is something i like about it. if everyone is a juggernaut, its boring.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:16
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I think an SP reset feature of some kind would be a huge boon here, just to enable more experimentation with the more expensive skills. I could see reasons to limit how often you can do it, but just having the ability to do it for a few units would be amazing.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:16
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I mean with Tiki’s paralogue, the thread told me the reinforcements are finite so I just ended up killing all the waves and then was able to complete the objective, which I don’t think was the intended strategy. It did give a shitton of exp.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:16
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How do the fixed growths work for maddening, is it essentially tracking fractional stats in the background and bumping them up every time you hit the next whole number?
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Feb 3, 2023 21:18
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Reik posted:How do the fixed growths work for maddening, is it essentially tracking fractional stats in the background and bumping them up every time you hit the next whole number? Yeah, that seems to be the case as far as people have seen. 50% speed growth means gaining speed every 2 levels.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:19
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Harrow posted:I think an SP reset feature of some kind would be a huge boon here, just to enable more experimentation with the more expensive skills. I could see reasons to limit how often you can do it, but just having the ability to do it for a few units would be amazing. Ask me about misunderstanding Dual Strike+ and giving it to my Dragon Alear. Only 2000 SP, no big.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:21
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Personally, as someone playing on hard and having completed up to chapter 22, the only map I think had too many reinforcements was the aforementioned chapter 21, and I say this as a person who takes things very slowly and frequently runs out of reinforcement waves over anything else. Even then I probably could have slowed down even more in 21 to deal with the reinforcement waves.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:22
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Natural 20 posted:I can't comment on Chapter 20 specifically, I found the boss and deleted his health bar turn 1 then drove my entire army down one side of the map for an easy win, so there at least I never saw any reinforcement waves. 21 was actually the chapter I meant lol my bad, the one where you fight Veyle, I got spooked by her Entrap staff priest buddy so I tried to stay at the end of her range and gather everyone up, which took long enough that I started getting drowned in reinforcements, which is why I rewound and just yoloed it and was able to kill her.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:22
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Natural 20 posted:Ask me about misunderstanding Dual Strike+ and giving it to my Dragon Alear.  I feel like if I did that I’d have to reclass to Hero because gently caress it, sunk cost, let’s go all in
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Feb 3, 2023 21:24
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I didn't realize SP was going to be so limited and quality time looked great for free HP every round so I bought it on almost every character. 
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Feb 3, 2023 21:27
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Endorph posted:maybe we're just coming at this from completely opposite perspectives because i dont really think fe characters should feel individually powerful, or there should only be one or two characters who are characterized by that feeling, or it should be reserved exclusively for the last couple of maps in the game I just hate the idea that I could have replaced more than half my characters with the lategame prepromotes all converted to hero and had a better comp at the end. It makes all the time and love I put into them feel worthless and they feel like mooks to me. Harrow posted:
That is in fact what I did. (eventually) Right call as well, Hero is busted. I really did miss having Canto 3 on Alear though.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:27
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I think talking about reinforcements just wrong, since that's barely a handful of maps. The overall point stands though that maddening has A LOT of enemies and sometimes it feels like you're inching through a sea of them while trying not to trigger the entire map. At least it's not 18 where they literally come at you from every direction.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:28
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Miftan posted:I think talking about reinforcements just wrong, since that's barely a handful of maps. The overall point stands though that maddening has A LOT of enemies and sometimes it feels like you're inching through a sea of them while trying not to trigger the entire map. At least it's not 18 where they literally come at you from every direction. I think you're right, but it's watching the reinforcements that precipitated the thought so I got caught up on that. 18 felt pretty light to me, but I'd discovered fire vein Corrin by that point so a full half the map just couldn't move.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:32
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My Madeening run has turned a bit gimmicky as I’ve gotten 3 Wolf Knights for each weapon type (Merrin, Zelkov and Panette). I was originally going to go hero Jean but Hero has no def growths so ended up with warrior instead. I thought maddening would be more strict with what you can get away with but I’m having a blast so far.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:33
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Natural 20 posted:I just hate the idea that I could have replaced more than half my characters with the lategame prepromotes all converted to hero and had a better comp at the end. It makes all the time and love I put into them feel worthless and they feel like mooks to me.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:33
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Wasn’t Three Houses about getting as many characters as you could into Wyvern Knight with various flavour of weapons? I didn’t even touch Hero in my Hard run as there are other classes that do cool poo poo, let alone the emblems.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:37
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Notty posted:21 was actually the chapter I meant lol my bad, the one where you fight Veyle, I got spooked by her Entrap staff priest buddy so I tried to stay at the end of her range and gather everyone up, which took long enough that I started getting drowned in reinforcements, which is why I rewound and just yoloed it and was able to kill her. Yeah, I was afraid of him too (he did actually kill a couple of my units and I had to turn back time.) That situation is exactly what Lyn's Astra Storm is designed for, though. jimmydalad posted:Wasn’t Three Houses about getting as many characters as you could into Wyvern Knight with various flavour of weapons? I didn’t even touch Hero in my Hard run as there are other classes that do cool poo poo, let alone the emblems. Untrue! It was getting everyone into Wyvern Knight and making everyone use bows.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:40
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Endorph posted:and again the paralogues with a bunch of reinforcement waves are like that as references to those games' designs. sigurd's paralogue dropping 30 guys on you after the first part of the map doesnt mean that engage's design is like that. fe6 loved drowning you in wyvern reinforcements, roy's paralogue is referencing that. as a point of reference for engage's design, it's useless. I mean, yes, but they could also NOT DO THAT. If Lucina's paralogue had reinforcements that appear and act on the same turn I wouldn't praise it's adherence to Awakening's stupidity.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:45
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Supremezero posted:I mean, yes, but they could also NOT DO THAT. If Lucina's paralogue had reinforcements that appear and act on the same turn I wouldn't praise it's adherence to Awakening's stupidity.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:46
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jimmydalad posted:Wasn’t Three Houses about getting as many characters as you could into Wyvern Knight with various flavour of weapons? I didn’t even touch Hero in my Hard run as there are other classes that do cool poo poo, let alone the emblems. It's commonly suggested but it's really not true. Firstly, your fliers are limited by battalion availability. You can put everyone as a flier but you then only have 5 high strength battalions of a possible 12, and a Wyvern lord with a bad battalion is just going to be straight worse than a ground unit with a top tier one. Secondly, there are a lot of classes that compete in power and utility with Wyvern Lord, even if you look purely at physical presence. The big ones are Swordmaster, Assassin, Sniper, Bow Knight and Falcon Knight because the first two are massive crit machines in a game where high crit is very easy to get, the archers have bowrange which makes them incredibly powerful long range threats and Falcon Knight is essentially Wyvern Lord but better with Lances. This ignores all the characters that are casters who might prefer any of Troubadour/Gremory/Dark Flier and the mixed utility characters who like Trickster because Foul Play offers gamechanging mobility.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:46
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I didn't try maddening 3H, because the descriptions made it sound bad, but on Hard using most characters, my only two (not counting Claude) wyverns were among my best units. They were, of course, both completely outclassed by Ignatz. No one answered me on the Royal Knight class, by the by. The skill sounds awful. Is that a deal breaker for the class?
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Feb 3, 2023 21:47
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Most classes don't have particularly useful skills. If nothing else I think Royal Knight is the only mounted (not flying) staff class.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:49
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How are y'all using the smash weapons? I pretty much just used them for the engage attacks so I could get off a huge Overdrive or Blazing Lion.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:49
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Hellioning posted:Most classes don't have particularly useful skills. If nothing else I think Royal Knight is the only mounted (not flying) staff class. It's not that it sounds bad, it sounds actively detrimental. So I guess my question is if it's as awful in practice as it reads, because it has some great stats.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:50
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Reik posted:How are y'all using the smash weapons? I pretty much just used them for the engage attacks so I could get off a huge Overdrive or Blazing Lion. I'm not, mainly. The people you would want to forcibly move are usually immune and letting your opponent act first is rarely a good idea. I think they're there for armor knights that were never going to double anyway and don't care about being hit physically. Veryslightlymad posted:It's not that it sounds bad, it sounds actively detrimental. So I guess my question is if it's as awful in practice as it reads, because it has some great stats. It's not really that detrimental, since I don't think Royal Knights are a frontline class really.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:50
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Reik posted:How are y'all using the smash weapons? I pretty much just used them for the engage attacks so I could get off a huge Overdrive or Blazing Lion. I used a smash weapon once to get an enemy off of miasma, that's about it. they're not very good, unfortunately
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Feb 3, 2023 21:51
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Endorph posted:if they picked the final map of awakening id want it to have the endless reinforcements tbh. theyre throwback maps. the way they adhere to the old design is cool. Yeah I love (most of) the paralogues. The gimmicks are great.
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Feb 3, 2023 21:51
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