Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
What is the most powerful flying bug?
This poll is closed.
🦋 15 3.71%
🦇 115 28.47%
🪰 12 2.97%
🐦 67 16.58%
dragonfly 94 23.27%
🦟 14 3.47%
🐝 87 21.53%
Total: 404 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Post
  • Reply
yellowcar
Feb 14, 2010

Frosted Flake posted:

My favourite deputy prime minister sent a troop (4) of our oldest Leos today



But not even the C2s with MEXAS, the last of the Leopard 2s we bought from the Dutch as a stopgap measure.

what happened to our old Leo 1s anyway

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC
https://t.me/rybar/43282

https://t.me/rybar/43282 posted:

🇬🇧🇺🇦 Soledar direction
situation at the end of February 4, 2023

🔻In the Soledar sector, the assault detachments of the Wagner PMC are attacking the positions of the 10th Armed Forces of the Airborne Forces of Ukraine on the outskirts of Razdolovka, and are also moving westward from the village of Sakko and Vanzetti to Vasyukovka.

▪️Clashes continue in the vicinity of Krasnaya Gora and Paraskovievka. The enemy suffers significant losses: the Ukrainian command withdrew in the direction of Slavyansk separate units of the 46th oambr DShV and 147th about 116th TRO from Krasnaya Gora.

▪️Ukrainian UAV crews monitor the areas of advance of the Russian Armed Forces and provide target designation of cannon and rocket artillery in the vicinity of Blagodatny.

🔻In Bakhmut, the "Wagnerites" entered the Stupka area in the north of the city. Fierce battles are going on in urban areas. Statements about a breakthrough in the defense of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are not true - Ukrainian formations continue to resist.

At the same time, the partial withdrawal of units from the northern suburbs of Bakhmut and the departure of 63 mechanized brigades from the city yesterday indicate preparations for a possible surrender of the garrison. Now the Armed Forces of Ukraine are concentrating their efforts on holding the route to Chasy Yar in order to preserve the logistics hub.

▪️At the same time, intense fighting continues in the industrial area on the eastern outskirts, as well as in residential areas in the southern part of the city, where assault squads are attacking the positions of the Armed Forces of Ukraine on Pervyy Radyansky Street.

🔻Southwest of Bakhmut, Russian units are advancing in the direction of the section of the Chasov Yar-Bakhmut highway. The "Wagnerites" advanced towards Krasnoe - less than one and a half kilometers remained to the suburbs.

▪️The command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is transferring manpower and armored vehicles from Konstantinovka to the vicinity of Chasov Yar. At the same time, additional defensive lines are being prepared in Konstantinovka itself.

▪️Russian artillery is conducting a massive shelling of the areas where enemy reinforcements are concentrated on the Konstantinovka-Chasov Yar-Bakhmut highway.



Sorry to keep posting maps goons, but a lot of activity is taking place today and these last few days. I decided to also post the entire (Google Translated) Telegram piece here because after reading it, I feel this is the tipping point for the fight over Bakhmut.

I say this for two reasons. The first is that the Russians have brought their artillery forward and placed the western supply highway under fire. The second is due to Wagner troops now pressing against the Ukrainian lines in the northern part of Bakhmut. This places the northern supply road under threat much sooner than I thought as I figured they still needed to fight for Krasna Hora and Paraskovievka.

I wonder about the availability and quality of the Ukrainian reserves. As I saw an image on the NYTimes a few days ago that was of a wounded Ukrainian soldier being medical evacuated from Bakhmut. His name was Viktor, and he was 62 years old. If they are sending men that old to fight, then things are dire indeed.

Gresh
Jan 12, 2019


https://twitter.com/DefensePolitics/status/1622016166310072322

inshallah

speng31b
May 8, 2010

GlassElephant posted:

If they are taking heavy losses during what you would consider regular skirmishing/probing to keep pressure on the AFU opposite them, that isn't the result of the AFU deciding to focus on them.

I said holding the line, which can absolutely result in heavy losses. why are you just making stuff up

Ciprian Maricon
Feb 27, 2006



GlassElephant posted:

If they are taking heavy losses during what you would consider regular skirmishing/probing to keep pressure on the AFU opposite them, that isn't the result of the AFU deciding to focus on them.

the easiest explanation is that they are taking heavy losses because they are undertrained, underequipped irregular forces and modern wars are really terrible and deadly as opposed to some twisted logic where Ukraine are very stupid and focusing the bulk of their forces on repelling every minor probe along the line while they lose important territory to larger, better equipped Russian forces, all so we can say Putin personally hates the separatist and wants them all to be dead

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018
Women are wonderful animals, they should be making music and writing novels about having a complex relationship with your mother.

Frosted Flake posted:

My favourite deputy prime minister sent a troop (4) of our oldest Leos today



But not even the C2s with MEXAS, the last of the Leopard 2s we bought from the Dutch as a stopgap measure.

As I recall, beat up old equipment like this being used by the Russians was proof that they were days away from running out of equipment and surrendering because they didn’t have any more bullets left.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
If all approaches to the town are already in range of artillery, further fighting is going to be a Bakhmut point

redneck nazgul
Apr 25, 2013
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!

gradenko_2000 posted:

If all approaches to the town are already in range of artillery, further fighting is going to be a Bakhmut point

okay this pun made me defect to ukraine

NATO # 1

speng31b
May 8, 2010

redneck nazgul posted:

okay this pun made me defect to ukraine

NATO # 1

gradenko's psyop game on point

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Frosted Flake posted:

My favourite deputy prime minister sent a troop (4) of our oldest Leos today



But not even the C2s with MEXAS, the last of the Leopard 2s we bought from the Dutch as a stopgap measure.

couldn't even be bothered to take it through the tank wash before loading it

Lord of Pie
Mar 2, 2007


Raskolnikov38 posted:

couldn't even be bothered to take it through the tank wash before loading it

mud is the traditional courtship offering

Raskolnikov38
Mar 3, 2007

We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eoUJcHYThQ

everyone using hoses but germany building a touchfree automatic tank wash is the most german thing ever

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost

Raskolnikov38 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eoUJcHYThQ

everyone using hoses but germany building a touchfree automatic tank wash is the most german thing ever

lmao, I enjoyed learning this.

OctaMurk
Jun 21, 2013

Ardennes posted:

Girkin and his buds haven't been reliable in the past, I don't know why they would be considered reliable now.

I think they are reliable when they're saying things that I want to believe

nomad2020
Jan 30, 2007

How important is cleaning your tank in the field? Like, I assume a modern tank is just coated with various sensors and antenna, how many days in the mud can you go between washes?

Seems less than ideal to get your tank crews used to having a tank wash on hand if it's at all important.

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013

EXTREMELY PISSED AT THE DNC

Raskolnikov38 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eoUJcHYThQ

everyone using hoses but germany building a touchfree automatic tank wash is the most german thing ever

Hey now. The Brits didn't have any hoses in that video. They just had a canal they drove through.

GlassElephant
Oct 25, 2009

Schwere Panzerabteilung 502
Discovered they were Glass Elephants, 27 APR 45

Ciprian Maricon posted:

the easiest explanation is that they are taking heavy losses because they are undertrained, underequipped irregular forces and modern wars are really terrible and deadly as opposed to some twisted logic where Ukraine are very stupid and focusing the bulk of their forces on repelling every minor probe along the line while they lose important territory to larger, better equipped Russian forces, all so we can say Putin personally hates the separatist and wants them all to be dead
The main part of Murz's post is complaining that they are still undertrained, underequipped irregular forces despite this being nearly a year into the war, during which they could have been trained or at a minimum better equipped. He thinks that because they are undertrained, underequipped irregular forces Russia should stop using them in ways that generate "monstrous losses". I don't think Putin or the Russian command wants the separatists to die, but it seems pretty clear they have realized that the death of a separatist conscript has less political impact than the death of a mobilized or volunteer Russian and are acting accordingly.

Danann
Aug 4, 2013

Ardennes posted:

Are they actually being used as practically unarmed shock troops without support though in February. That is the point or contention. To be clear, I don’t considered Merz like Girkin an unbiased source, especially since his “interviewee” is practically wishing death on the rest of the Russian population as well: who will all die from being used as “shock troops.”

I guess people forget about the shell famine and everything else that gets fed.

The last update form the DPR wrt military casualties of their forces points to no: (it's the machine translated 'strong structure')


At most, LDPR may have 8-9k total dead but the Russians will make up the rest of the estimated losses. Of course to fit in with the talking point of Putin cartoonishly sacrificing his auxiliaries it would inevitably point towards casualties of the Russian side being 20k or lower which is why the people making those talking points make sure to never talk about concrete numbers at all, only vibes and implications.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

GlassElephant posted:

The main part of Murz's post is complaining that they are still undertrained, underequipped irregular forces despite this being nearly a year into the war, during which they could have been trained or at a minimum better equipped. He thinks that because they are undertrained, underequipped irregular forces Russia should stop using them in ways that generate "monstrous losses". I don't think Putin or the Russian command wants the separatists to die, but it seems pretty clear they have realized that the death of a separatist conscript has less political impact than the death of a mobilized or volunteer Russian and are acting accordingly.

there is a difference between using them in ways that result in significant losses and are significantly demoralizing versus intentionally throwing them into the meat grinder for reasons of low strategic value. it is war and it is horrible. significant losses are part of the deal, especially when forces are undertrained, under equipped, and not relieved often

speng31b has issued a correction as of 02:00 on Feb 5, 2023

bedpan
Apr 23, 2008

GlassElephant posted:

The main part of Murz's post is complaining that they are still undertrained, underequipped irregular forces despite this being nearly a year into the war, during which they could have been trained or at a minimum better equipped. He thinks that because they are undertrained, underequipped irregular forces Russia should stop using them in ways that generate "monstrous losses". I don't think Putin or the Russian command wants the separatists to die, but it seems pretty clear they have realized that the death of a separatist conscript has less political impact than the death of a mobilized or volunteer Russian and are acting accordingly.

Russian forces were wildly described as shoeless conscripts entirely awestruck by flush toilets, electricity, and paved roads and who tossed aside whatever Tsarist-era relics they were carrying as weapons so they could better steal washing machines. If those were the regular forces, I can't imagine the state of the irregular forces.

Slavvy
Dec 11, 2012

nomad2020 posted:

How important is cleaning your tank in the field? Like, I assume a modern tank is just coated with various sensors and antenna, how many days in the mud can you go between washes?

Seems less than ideal to get your tank crews used to having a tank wash on hand if it's at all important.

The sensors usually have tiny window wipers and washer sprayers for this reason

Also track maintenance, which is not optional if you want to stay moving and alive, would be loving painful in muddy conditions

Ardennes
May 12, 2002

Danann posted:

The last update form the DPR wrt military casualties of their forces points to no: (it's the machine translated 'strong structure')


At most, LDPR may have 8-9k total dead but the Russians will make up the rest of the estimated losses. Of course to fit in with the talking point of Putin cartoonishly sacrificing his auxiliaries it would inevitably point towards casualties of the Russian side being 20k or lower which is why the people making those talking points make sure to never talk about concrete numbers at all, only vibes and implications.

Granted, when people are talking about Russians killed it is also a little bit vague if they are including LDPR or mercs in it or not. Admittedly, the LDPR have taken a much higher proportional hit than any other "Russian" force but yeah it would seem the type of situation they were describing would have far more of an impact. It is a good question also if you are talking about Western numbers what they are counting and how they are counting it because usually it just seems to be something thrown out there.

The only data that had some corroborating info to it were the Mediazone numbers but even then they are a little bit vague about their methodology; also they didn't have a good explanation why Rostov-on-Don had such a high number of deaths (I would assume because the refugees from the LDPR live there but who knows.)

Ardennes has issued a correction as of 02:24 on Feb 5, 2023

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer
I love how this has become a gotcha for the pro-Ukraine club, aha see, Putler doesn't care about the republics! As if Ukraine isn't trying to murder the people there. Putin is a piece of poo poo but this ain't on him.

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

Raskolnikov38 posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eoUJcHYThQ

everyone using hoses but germany building a touchfree automatic tank wash is the most german thing ever

A little bit disapointed there wasn't a tank version of something like this

https://i.imgur.com/506xA7P.mp4

Lostconfused
Oct 1, 2008

GlassElephant posted:

The main part of Murz's post is complaining that they are still undertrained, underequipped irregular forces despite this being nearly a year into the war
9 years.

speng31b
May 8, 2010

Regarde Aduck posted:

I love how this has become a gotcha for the pro-Ukraine club, aha see, Putler doesn't care about the republics! As if Ukraine isn't trying to murder the people there. Putin is a piece of poo poo but this ain't on him.

it's just the same human wave attacks line recycled over and over. finding slightly different ways of implying that Russians are either too stupid or evil to do war without throwing people into a woodchipper. they're right but only in the sense that war is a woodchipper no matter how you approach it, and Russians are just doing what everyone would probably do in the same situation

GlassElephant
Oct 25, 2009

Schwere Panzerabteilung 502
Discovered they were Glass Elephants, 27 APR 45

Danann posted:

The last update form the DPR wrt military casualties of their forces points to no: (it's the machine translated 'strong structure')


At most, LDPR may have 8-9k total dead but the Russians will make up the rest of the estimated losses. Of course to fit in with the talking point of Putin cartoonishly sacrificing his auxiliaries it would inevitably point towards casualties of the Russian side being 20k or lower which is why the people making those talking points make sure to never talk about concrete numbers at all, only vibes and implications.
I'm deeply skeptical of what any government involved is reporting while the war is still ongoing.
The two regions have a combined population of under 4 million, and I see estimates of their combined military strength at between 30,000 to 44,000 before the war started (obviously subsequent conscription would have increased that significantly).

fits my needs
Jan 1, 2011

Grimey Drawer

OhFunny posted:

I wonder about the availability and quality of the Ukrainian reserves. As I saw an image on the NYTimes a few days ago that was of a wounded Ukrainian soldier being medical evacuated from Bakhmut. His name was Viktor, and he was 62 years old. If they are sending men that old to fight, then things are dire indeed.

actually, granddad is retired and wants to be there

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1621303206876700672

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
Maybe if Ukraine left the separatists well enough alone for the last decade they'd have had more budget to equip their troops better.

Slim Jim Pickens
Jan 16, 2012

GlassElephant posted:

I'm deeply skeptical of what any government involved is reporting while the war is still ongoing.
The two regions have a combined population of under 4 million, and I see estimates of their combined military strength at between 30,000 to 44,000 before the war started (obviously subsequent conscription would have increased that significantly).

There's no reason to post about how ignorant and skeptical you are at the same time. If you were really so in the dark, just shut up instead.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

nomad2020 posted:

How important is cleaning your tank in the field? Like, I assume a modern tank is just coated with various sensors and antenna, how many days in the mud can you go between washes?

Seems less than ideal to get your tank crews used to having a tank wash on hand if it's at all important.

Maintaining anything is a pain in the rear end but I’ve heard tracks especially need to be tightened to maintain tension and have pins knocked in with sledgehammers, so I’m guessing strenuous. Plus they need to swab 120mm guns like we do, but with only 4 men. Gun maintenance is backbreaking labour so… good luck to them, I hope smoothbores are easier to clean.

e: It was mentioned earlier but this was a big advantage to the 5 man crews of earlier tanks even if the “Assistant Driver” added little combat value, they made the 90% of time out of combat more bearable.

ee: C2s are in War Storage, 2 were donated to the War Museum.

Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 03:04 on Feb 5, 2023

mlmp08
Jul 11, 2004

Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration
Nap Ghost
“You will do so much loving maintenance, and it’s heavy on human physical labor,” is the rule of tanks, especially Abrams. Both preventative and reacting to faults.

supersnowman
Oct 3, 2012

Frosted Flake posted:

Gun maintenance is backbreaking labour so… good luck to them, I hope smoothbores are easier to clean.


Without grooves, it has to be easier.

sum
Nov 15, 2010

OhFunny posted:

I wonder about the availability and quality of the Ukrainian reserves. As I saw an image on the NYTimes a few days ago that was of a wounded Ukrainian soldier being medical evacuated from Bakhmut. His name was Viktor, and he was 62 years old. If they are sending men that old to fight, then things are dire indeed.

I think we can infer this from the repeated anonymous advice from the US military that Ukraine is taking too many casualties in Bakhmut and that they should withdraw to preserve the chances of a spring counteroffensive. In the summer Donbass campaign it seemed like the defense rested on teroboron and reservist-manned formations who would constantly record videos threatening to mutiny, now you see more mention of mechanized and DShV brigades on the front.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

euphronius posted:

interesting to see. a sign for sure.



via tgusa/tm

This looks like what I'd get if I asked an AI to draw me a tank in a field.

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

(squinting)

Is that even real money or soon to be worthless Ukraine funny money?

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Gresh posted:

lol are the Europeans realizing that a few dozen modern tanks aren't gonna do poo poo and except end up in Russia for evaluation

i can't believe insincere pact are doing insincere things

DancingShade
Jul 26, 2007

by Fluffdaddy

Al-Saqr posted:

hmmm the pace of russian tactical victories seem to be increasing in tempo, whatever big push they've got planned probably is going to place ukraine in a giant heap of trouble if this keeps up unless the ukranians have some enormous defences prepared in Slavyansk and Kramatorsk.

Excuse me I think you dramatically under-estimate the impact of the imminent arrival of 14 worn out German leopards and 10 Britsh challengers. Totally, completely, under-estimate. Game underscore changer.

I hope they load them before sending them. I don't think they share ammo types.

Lord of Pie
Mar 2, 2007


Frosted Flake posted:

Maintaining anything is a pain in the rear end but I’ve heard tracks especially need to be tightened to maintain tension and have pins knocked in with sledgehammers, so I’m guessing strenuous. Plus they need to swab 120mm guns like we do, but with only 4 men. Gun maintenance is backbreaking labour so… good luck to them, I hope smoothbores are easier to clean.

e: It was mentioned earlier but this was a big advantage to the 5 man crews of earlier tanks even if the “Assistant Driver” added little combat value, they made the 90% of time out of combat more bearable.

ee: C2s are in War Storage, 2 were donated to the War Museum.

one weird trick to avoid gun maintenance: keep shooting until they blow up

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

DancingShade posted:

Excuse me I think you dramatically under-estimate the impact of the imminent arrival of 14 worn out German leopards and 10 Britsh challengers. Totally, completely, under-estimate. Game underscore changer.

I hope they load them before sending them. I don't think they share ammo types.

lol when the US was already whining about equipment readiness issues of their vassalage when they are sitting in depots

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply