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Darth Walrus posted:In 'Labour are actively antagonistic to the general public' updates: I'm genuinely not sure who Labour think they're appealing to, here. Other than political journalists and the 25 people who still read the Telegraph. The whole point of running in opposition is that you have to give people hope or expectation that things will improve and Labour can't be bothered doing that. And we know Keith is willing to lie; so I guess lying to the rich people he's Human Caterpillaring with is the line he won't cross. Millions of people who didn't vote at the last General Election and Keith et al are hyper-focussed on the fiction of a couple of hundred thousand floating broadsheet-reading voters somewhere 'up north, innit?' It's stupid in a way I hadn't thought possible.
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Feb 5, 2023 18:40
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ThomasPaine posted:I think a lot of leftists seem to believe that Russia is still the USSR, rather than a gangster capitalist shithole coasting on the nostalgia of it. It's not even that. It's more a kind of bitter tantrum that supporting Russia is somehow sticking it to the libs.
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Feb 5, 2023 18:40
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OwlFancier posted:I'm as surprised as you but yeah, the hooting and hollering for the ukrainian army to do movie stalingrad with anyone who could pick up a gun is the thing that stopped me reading the war thread. I don't have a good suggestion for an alternative to the current arrangement but I'm far from happy with how many people seem to be all in on dulce et decorum est pro patria mori. The objective is not to die for ones country but to make the other bastard die for his. While Ukraine is doing its best atm the unfortunate thing is that Putin has a lot of bodies available and is perfectly willing to expend them for military gains.  It's not for glory, it's for Ukraine's right to exist as a people. 
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Feb 5, 2023 18:41
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OwlFancier posted:I was referring to why I stopped reading the war thread, not this one. OK, I missed that context, sorry. I'm really not a fan of conscription either, but this isn't an ordinary war where at worst we'll finish with an occupied Ukraine if Russia prevails. The Russians have been quite clear that they want to eradicate Ukrainian national identity, and they're providing huge state support to the Wagner Group which was founded by veterans of the Chechen genocide. It's literally an existential crisis, and there are no good decisions here.
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Feb 5, 2023 18:51
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ThomasPaine posted:I think a lot of leftists seem to believe that Russia is still the USSR, rather than a gangster capitalist shithole coasting on the nostalgia of it. Partly, but I think it's more the idea that if America Bad, then Anyone Against America Good. Let's all line up behind some vicious theocrats and open fascists and total surveillance states, they might have some unsavoury aspects but by gods they don't salute the red white and blue
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Feb 5, 2023 18:55
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Jedit posted:OK, I missed that context, sorry. Which is why I think it should be up to individual people to decide if they want to fight for it. I am entirely sympathetic to people who have no sense of national identity towards the place they live or for whatever other reason would not want to fight to defend it or the other people who live in it. Most of us live in places that detest us and where appeals to the idea that we're all in it together in times of crisis, would ring extremely hollow. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Feb 5, 2023 |
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Feb 5, 2023 19:00
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ThomasPaine posted:I think a lot of leftists seem to believe that Russia is still the USSR, rather than a gangster capitalist shithole coasting on the nostalgia of it. A lot of nominally left-leaning brains have got so used to seeing NATO Imperialist Bullshit that they've calcified into that pattern recognition and see it in everything NATO is even peripherally involved with.
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Feb 5, 2023 19:05
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Jedit posted:OK, I missed that context, sorry. Incredible that you've walked yourself into a line where you now reluctantly agree with the right that refugees from Libya, Syria, Yemen should go home and fight for their country. JoylessJester fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Feb 5, 2023 |
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Feb 5, 2023 19:05
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I thought I could escape the Ukraine threads here. Why? You're in the UKraineMT Winter war 2023: Beruskied in the Backside
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Feb 5, 2023 19:07
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If the UK got invaded just lol at the idea that I'd do anything but hunker down, wait for it to blow over, and try to learn the language of the invading country to assist me in not being murdered.
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Feb 5, 2023 19:34
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People be relitigating every single point of the war forever, and the motivations of the decision makers, but the point remains Britain has for once done some good and helped prevented an invading fascist Russia from committing genocide at a national scale. The whole world has seen Russia so humiliated in being fought to a stalemate that future invasions have probably been prevented. We've done good here, and need to keep up the pressure to force the invaders out forever.
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Feb 5, 2023 19:40
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ThomasPaine posted:If the UK got invaded just lol at the idea that I'd do anything but hunker down, wait for it to blow over, and try to learn the language of the invading country to assist me in not being murdered. If we are being invaded it's probably by the French and I will die before I learn that tongue or how to cook with herbs
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Feb 5, 2023 19:47
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personally I'm just selfishly glad that a russian invasion of eastern europe that went messy hasn't resulted in cans of sunshine being opened up NotJustANumber99 posted:Cool Skodas are cool.      I like it a lot so far, real nice
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Feb 5, 2023 19:47
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ThomasPaine posted:If the UK got invaded just lol at the idea that I'd do anything but hunker down, wait for it to blow over, and try to learn the language of the invading country to assist me in not being murdered. Either this or move to Ireland The idea that the government could say "No you must defend you are country" and well-meaning people across the sea would think that was right and good is a bit scary tbh
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Feb 5, 2023 19:53
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DesperateDan posted:personally I'm just selfishly glad that a russian invasion of eastern europe that went messy hasn't resulted in cans of sunshine being opened up Recently got a Roomster and it's such a goofy looking car I love it.
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Feb 5, 2023 19:55
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If the UK got invaded I'd do what I could to help out lol.
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Feb 5, 2023 19:59
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ThomasPaine posted:If the UK got invaded just lol at the idea that I'd do anything but hunker down, wait for it to blow over, and try to learn the language of the invading country to assist me in not being murdered. Alchenar posted:If we are being invaded it's probably by the French and I will die before I learn that tongue or how to cook with herbs The real Thomas Paine went to France and became a member of the revolutionary parliament they created. He spoke no word of french, and made speeches in the parliament in VERY LOUD ENGLISH where most didn't understand him at all. My best guess will be Scotland leaves the union, they get a piss poor/none army to defend themselves with, and Russia surprises everyone with submarines full of soliders landing in Aberdeen, Edinburgh, and Dundee. The Tory scum that is PM at the time will just shrug shoulders and start building a wall at the border. Ireland and EU comes to Scotlands aid. Ireland also wins the world cup in everything that year too. Including eurovision.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:02
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In the UK invasion timeline Marine La Pen won the election and now there are legions of French stormtroopers marching through the chunnel, but the jokes on them because we took back control of our borders so they can’t come in!
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Feb 5, 2023 20:02
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Anyone who invades the UK is going to have a look around, go What a poo poo hole! and leave.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:04
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Pablo Bluth posted:Anyone who invades the UK is going to have a look around, go What a poo poo hole! and leave. Historically they apparently take a look around, go "what a poo poo hole" and then stay for a few centuries at least. Which explains the current occupants.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:07
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DesperateDan posted:personally I'm just selfishly glad that a russian invasion of eastern europe that went messy hasn't resulted in cans of sunshine being opened up Justify your SUV purchase, you monster. Pablo Bluth posted:Anyone who invades the UK is going to have a look around, go What a poo poo hole! and leave. I dunno, if you removed the people and most of the things they built, its quite nice.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:13
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Mega Comrade posted:I dunno, if you removed the people and most of the things they built, its quite nice.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:15
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ThomasPaine posted:If the UK got invaded just lol at the idea that I'd do anything but hunker down, wait for it to blow over, and try to learn the language of the invading country to assist me in not being murdered. Would that be hunkering down at The Winchester? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpQNw46Sl24
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Feb 5, 2023 20:19
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schkohda
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Feb 5, 2023 20:30
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DesperateDan posted:I like it a lot so far, real nice What's it like owning a car that isn't a 20yo~ shitheap? 
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Feb 5, 2023 20:33
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Bold way to say you're too cowardly to make your case somewhere where people actually know what they're talking about. It's actually a bold way to say I have as much interest in discussing the Ukraine invasion with D&D brained liberals as I do buying a car. Which is to say none, for precisely the reason you just showed: y'all have exactly as much nuance and tolerance as the CSPAM thread, it's boring groupthink. You've just assumed I'm a Putin apologist based on  Putin is bad. I hope Russia are able to get free of him & his lackeys because living in a kleptocracy loving sucks and the Russian people deserve better. This was my opinion 18 months ago and it will remain my opinion. I have no love for revanchist projects and Greater X projects, which is ultimately what this invasion is. Arming neo-nazis is also bad. These positions aren't mutually exclusive. It's bad when Russian fash get armed, it's bad when Ukrainian fash get armed. Mostly I just feel rotten for the people caught in between, be they Ukrainians who have lost their homes, their families and God knows what else or the Russians forcibly conscripted, or having to flee to neighbouring nations to avoid conscription. Anyway, this thread is for hideously depressing British politics, not hideously depressing War in Ukraine.
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Feb 5, 2023 20:54
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forkboy84 posted:Mostly I just feel rotten for the people caught in between, be they Ukrainians who have lost their homes, their families and God knows what else You feel just *terrible* for them, but not terrible *enough* to actually support stopping an ongoing genocide. 100% agreed on you avoiding the Ukraine thread if that's your best take on the situation.
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Feb 5, 2023 21:05
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heres MY nuanced take on the situation 
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Feb 5, 2023 21:08
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Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists
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Feb 5, 2023 21:24
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If the UK was invaded I'd assist the foreign commanders as the resistance so that we can expel the fourth Reich. We will reclaim these poo poo straddled lands.
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Feb 5, 2023 21:29
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Mega Comrade posted:Justify your SUV purchase, you monster. You've seen his thread in hobbies and making things or whatever it's called? Also incase of invasion.
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Feb 5, 2023 21:30
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sinky posted:What's it like owning a car that isn't a 20yo~ shitheap? Hey now, not all 20yo poo poo heaps are total uhh.. poo poo heaps. My terrible, diesel hungry, £398pa tax, 175k miles landrover is a fine example of a 21yo poo poo heap
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Feb 5, 2023 21:39
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Rust Martialis posted:You feel just *terrible* for them, but not terrible *enough* to actually support stopping an ongoing genocide. I can only aspire to having a rapsheet like yours, godspeed  On a different subject, one of the many odd things about the current right-wing commentariat is how they simultaneously believe that the country's better off than ever and that the lifestyles taken for granted in previous decades are now completely extravagent. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/04/britain-faces-destitution-refuses-admit-state-pension-unaffordable/ quote:But even if we carry on with our current, more modest, increases in longevity, the existing model is unaffordable. A sharp decline in our birthrate from around 1970 means that the ratio of pensioners to workers will keep rising. The only way for the government to remain solvent is to bring its pension obligations into line with how we live now.
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Feb 5, 2023 22:00
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happyhippy posted:The real Thomas Paine went to France and became a member of the revolutionary parliament they created. And they sentenced him to death for it.
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Feb 5, 2023 22:03
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As is appropriate for british tourists.
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Feb 5, 2023 22:08
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Gonzo McFee posted:You seem to be very miserable, have you considered taking a break from posting and going for a walk instead? new thread title looking good
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Feb 5, 2023 22:14
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forkboy84 posted:Mostly I just feel rotten for the people caught in between, be they Ukrainians who have lost their homes, their families and God knows what else or the Russians forcibly conscripted, or having to flee to neighbouring nations to avoid conscription. drat if only we could give those poor people weapons to help fight the imperialist invasion. Just too bad they're all nazis.
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Feb 5, 2023 22:31
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Love it when armchair generals come out to play spouting endless evidence in a war completely devoid of factual information.
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Feb 5, 2023 22:33
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The SuperHitlerTanskii debacle is currently very amusing
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Feb 5, 2023 22:38
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Diet Crack posted:a war completely devoid of factual information. Sounds like its right up your street
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