|
Sending LFE to the front speakers is a bad idea, unless they're very bass-capable. If you only have stereo speakers, just leave the LFE out and run a full-range stereo signal to them. E: and at least on Denon AVRs, LFE only goes to the fronts if you specifically select the "LFE+main" subwoofer mode, which sends all bass to both the fronts and the subs. Which is dumb and shouldn't be used.
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 14:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 05:15 |
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:Sending LFE to the front speakers is a bad idea, unless they're very bass-capable. The AVR will decode the full range signal from the Windows computer, and using an internal low-pass filter will send the low frequency sounds to the sub. Ryuga Death posted:Good to hear. Thank you. What sort of speaker stands would you recommend that would sit on a PC desk? Something like this for a shorter amount of lift https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Studio-Monitor-Stands-600024/dp/B097CP8SVM Or something like this for a bit more of a boost(I have ones like this except mine are adjustable from like 18-30"): https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Glass-Speaker-Stand-Management/dp/B0859NRCWW Ryuga Death posted:Dumb question but I assume nearfield just means being close to the speakers? Yeah Ryuga Death posted:Definitely not the right place, but if I do settle with a 2.1 speaker set up, how would I set it up through windows? I think windows settings only has basic stereo but ignores the sub or is all of that handled through the GPU and AVR? The HDMI connection delivering audio is going through my gtx 1070. Do you have an optical out anywhere on your PC and an optical in on the AVR receiver? If you do, I would probably connect the audio using that, and have the HDMI go straight between the monitors and the PC Mederlock fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
Learning a lot here about how Windows and AVRs interact with sound stuff and it's so much more helpful than google and random reddit posts ever were. So far I have the Micca Rb42, KEFQ150, and the ELAC Debut 2.0 in my cart. The Micca seem like the best option for size since I have multiple monitors on the desk already but I think the other two could maybe fit if I move stuff around. I know CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK already offered their opinion on speaker foam pads and tilted speaker stands, but does anyone else have anything to offer about them? Reddit posts from audiophiles would have me believe that having speakers sit flat on a desk is a really bad idea but is that due to the sound vibrating on the desk or sound not properly hitting me as I sit or should I not concern myself with them?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 19:51
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Learning a lot here about how Windows and AVRs interact with sound stuff and it's so much more helpful than google and random reddit posts ever were. Sorry, answered some of your questions by editing my previous post before you responded if you wanna check that out For reference, here's my setup. Pardon the rats nest of cables and stuff, been busy with work stuff. I personally use a USB DAC, then into a vintage stereo receiver, which I then feed the speaker outs through my line-level speaker inputs on my Polk sub, then on up to the speakers. But I used to use an optical cable to my AVR receiver under my TV (out of frame to the right), and then an LFE cable to the sub and used the Zone 2 speaker outs on the AVR to the speakers before I switched to this arrangement. 
Mederlock fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jan 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 20:04
|
|
|
CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Setting the speakers to full range sends the LFE signal to them anyways. No it doesn't. Setting them to large means they get the full range from the L/R front channels, it doesn't mean they get anything from the .1 channel. Setting them to small means they don't get the full range from the L/R channels and everything below the cutoff goes to the sub. In neither case does the .1/LFE channel get sent to your fronts. The only way to do that with a Denon, and i suspect most AVRs, is to tell it you don't have a sub. KozmoNaut posted:Sending LFE to the front speakers is a bad idea, unless they're very bass-capable. LFE+Main doesn't do it either, LFE+Main means the your sub gets everything below your frequency cutoff even if you have your speakers set to large. It sends the low frequencies from your L/R channels to the sub, not the low frequencies from the .1 channel to your L/R speakers. And LFE+Main is a perfectly reasonable setting to use if your fronts are pretty large but still obviously not as capable as your subs.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 20:15
|
|
|
Mederlock posted:
The only thing I could find on my PC was an SPDIF thing and I think there's something similar on my AVR. Mederlock posted:Sorry, answered some of your questions by editing my previous post before you responded if you wanna check that out Pretty cool set up pic but I admit I got lost in the sea of words there. Does having speakers above your head not make the audio sound weird? Also, I should probably look into getting a monitor I can swivel and make tall like in your pic. Is there a way to show a pic of my desk without it being public or seen by anyone else outside of these forums? I'm kind of embarrassed by my setup but maybe having this thread see it would help with suggestions. bird with big dick posted:No it doesn't. Setting them to large means they get the full range from the L/R front channels, it doesn't mean they get anything from the .1 channel. Setting them to small means they don't get the full range from the L/R channels and everything below the cutoff goes to the sub. In neither case does the .1/LFE channel get sent to your fronts. The only way to do that with a Denon, and i suspect most AVRs, is to tell it you don't have a sub. I've seen this setting on my yamaha AVR. How do you know when to set speakers to large or not?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 20:29
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:The only thing I could find on my PC was an SPDIF thing and I think there's something similar on my AVR. No, it actually sounds better. But my understanding is that these speakers (Linn Tukan) were specifically designed to be placed higher up in say, a bookshelf. Supposedly it has more to do with the design and aim point of the tweeters more than anything. I think imgbb.com doesn't publicly post photos, but I personally use imgur and have all my albums set to private, so only a direct link to the url works on the forums. The main this is getting the angle of the tweeters to be vaguely aimed at your ears, which you can achieve from above or below. I opted for going above to allow for my monitors and more desk space for my extra nerdy audio hardware. And yeah SPDIF is the format that optical out and Coaxial digital audio uses, the optical out is a 1/4" or so wide square connector with a hinging plate in the center that folds back when you plug it in. HDMI can carry the most advanced surround sound formats, but for a 2.1 system they're irrelevant, and going with the spdif optical for audio and HDMI straight to the monitors should reduce latency for gaming to the minimum. Mederlock fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jan 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 20:40
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:I've seen this setting on my yamaha AVR. How do you know when to set speakers to large or not? Denons will actually try and tell you when they do their audio spectrum microphone sweep whether they think your speakers are capable of being set to large but from my experience they think anything with a 5" woofer or greater is fine to be set to large which I definitely don't agree with. The previous iteration of my HT had powered 12" woofers in my L/R speakers, so pretty obviously okay to set those to large. I personally probably wouldn't set anything to large unless it's a tower speaker with at least multiple 5"+ drivers in it. And unless they're seriously bassy speakers (maybe something like a Polk L800 with its 2x10" woofers) I'd use the LFE+Main setting so that the lowest frequencies from the L/R channel also get sent to the sub. I think I've got my current system set to large, my mains have 3x6.5" so pretty good but not insanely capable, so LFE+Main means any sub 40 Hz or so stuff in the L/R channels which won't get reproduced much at all by my L/R speakers gets sent to the subwoofers which are much better at it. And there absolutely is a ton of sub 60 Hz material in the L/R channels of your typical action movie 5.1 mix.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
bird with big dick posted:LFE+Main doesn't do it either, LFE+Main means the your sub gets everything below your frequency cutoff even if you have your speakers set to large. It sends the low frequencies from your L/R channels to the sub, not the low frequencies from the .1 channel to your L/R speakers. And LFE+Main is a perfectly reasonable setting to use if your fronts are pretty large but still obviously not as capable as your subs. I've wondered about this: does it cause any interference in the frequencies that overlap between a fairly good full range front speaker and a sub, or is that a very "it depends" question
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 20:49
|
|
|
Mederlock posted:No, it actually sounds better. But my understanding is that these speakers (Linn Tukan) were specifically designed to be placed higher up in say, a bookshelf. Supposedly it has more to do with the design and aim point of the tweeters more than anything. I think imgbb.com doesn't publicly post photos, but I personally use imgur and have all my albums set to private, so only a direct link to the url works on the forums.  This is an older pic of my current set up (taken in April of 2022) but this is more or less what my set up is like right now. The monitor that connects with HDMI is the one on the left while the center monitor, which is where I play my games on, is connected directly from PC through displayport so I've personally never noticed any sort of lag or disconnect between the audio and whatever is showing on the monitors. I plan to get rid of the right monitor if and when I build a new pc. The tabletop is this thing from Ikea. From the looks of it, would I have enough space for something like the Kef150 or should I just stick with the Micca? If I get the new audio system, I plan to get rid of the bose and center speakers and move the right sub to underneath the desk. I was hoping to just have the speakers, no matter what I get, sit on the desk itself, maybe aimed up at an angle if suggested. I think I got the basic gist of this and luckily have always avoided using the large setting for speakers since I've never had anything larger than bookshelf speakers, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 20:58
|
|
|
Mederlock posted:The AVR will decode the full range signal from the Windows computer, and using an internal low-pass filter will send the low frequency sounds to the sub. The stereo downmix from Windows doesn't contain the .1 LFE channel. So you'll just get the low frequency part of the stereo signal. You have to send the full 5.1/7.1 signal to the AVR and let that handle the downmixing. bird with big dick posted:LFE+Main doesn't do it either https://faq.yamaha.com/usa/s/article/U0002537 Varies by brand, I know I've read a FAQ from Denon stating similar options and results. There's no good reason to do it, but you can.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 21:05
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:The stereo downmix from Windows doesn't contain the .1 LFE channel. So you'll just get the low frequency part of the stereo signal. Please post the FAQ because if it says what you're saying then it seems like they've bungled one of their FAQs and would probably appreciate the correction. https://support.denon.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/277/~/subwoofer-modes quote:LFE + Main - This setting will output all low frequencies to the Subwoofer whether the speaker channels are set to Large or Small in the Speaker Config menu. The includes LFE from a Dolby or DTS track as well as any low frequencies when decoding PCM or playing back from an analog connection. Or maybe they make receivers in different markets that actually work differently (I kinda doubt it). But what you're saying with regard to the US market is just wrong and you're giving people bad information. I'm also not sure that Yamaha faq says what you seem to think its saying. If you're setting your LFE to MAIN/FRONT instead of SWFR it means you're telling it you don't have a subwoofer in which case yeah, it's gonna send it to the fronts as long as they're set to large, which I already said in my previous post when I said the only way to get the LFE channel sent to your mains with a Denon was to tell it you don't have a subwoofer. And we've had this conversation before and you realized you were wrong then after arguing for a lot of posts but it seems like now you're possible being wrong in a different way, I can't remember exactly. Maybe wrong in the same way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 22:39
|
|
|
Or maybe you should just stay on ignore. Shame on me for indulging your pedantic rear end.quote:If any speaker is set toLARGE and the LFE/BASS output is set to BOTH within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, you will only get the LFE/Bass output sent to set to that speaker as well as the sub woofer. In other words, go piss up a rope.
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2023 23:38
|
|
|
If I have some money should I just get the Denon S760H? Is that the like can't go wrong receiver of the moment?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 05:32
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:Or maybe you should just stay on ignore. Shame on me for indulging your pedantic rear end. So, it's not pedantry. These are fundamental differences in how these things work that can make a serious difference in how they perform, they're not minute details. So I might be right, or you might be wrong, but it's not a matter of being pedantic. I can see why you're confused though, that part of that faq is pretty poorly worded, but here's why you're completely wrong: 1. The audio engineers that design these things are not morons. They way you think this works is indeed pretty stupid (as you've pointed out) and there's not really a situation where there would be much use for it, but the converse, the way it actually works, sending the low frequencies from the L/R channels to both your mains and your sub, makes sense in some situations for reasons I've previous outlined. 2. I've already provided the quote that shows you're wrong with regards to it pertaining to Denons and it'd be pretty goddamn stupid of Yamaha to make their receivers work in basically the opposite manner of Denon given that the Denon and their related companies are the largest receiver manufacturer on the planet, by a pretty huge margin, if I recall correctly. 3. quote:If all speakers are set to LARGE and the LFE/BASS output is set to SWFR (Sub woofer) within the speaker settings option of a Yamaha A/V receiver, you will only get the discrete LFE (The ".1" in a 5.1 movie) signals directed to the sub woofer. Note how in the first sentence and the third sentence they refer to "the discrete LFE (The ".1" in a 5.1 movie)" and in the second sentence they do not. That is not by accident. They reason they don't say that they're talking about the discrete LFE channel is because they're not talking about the discrete LFE channel, they're talking about "LFE/Bass" in the general sense meaning "low frequency sound." So with your speakers set to large and the LFE/BASS output set to BOTH you get bass (from the L/R channels) sent to those speakers as well as the sub woofer. Just like with Denons. BOTH is the same as LFE+Main and in both cases it means sending the L/R channel low frequency sounds to your mains and your sub, NOT sending the discrete LFE channel to your mains.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 06:46
|
|
|
prom candy posted:If I have some money should I just get the Denon S760H? Is that the like can't go wrong receiver of the moment? It's pretty tough to go wrong with Denon. Is this the one they sell at Costco?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 06:47
|
|
|
prom candy posted:If I have some money should I just get the Denon S760H? Is that the like can't go wrong receiver of the moment? Yea pretty much. It should be fine for a long time since it has hdmi 2.1
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 12:46
|
|
|
Am I missing out on anything by having a Denon S660H instead of the S760H? That's what I have when I got a tv setup a couple of months ago. Only using a L/R, center, and subwoofer for the tv.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 13:54
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Am I missing out on anything by having a Denon S660H instead of the S760H? That's what I have when I got a tv setup a couple of months ago. Only using a L/R, center, and subwoofer for the tv. Looks like just two additional channels for either surrounds or atmos. Unless you want to try atmos, you aren't missing anything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 14:58
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Am I missing out on anything by having a Denon S660H instead of the S760H? That's what I have when I got a tv setup a couple of months ago. Only using a L/R, center, and subwoofer for the tv. Nevermind, it's basically the same thing but can power more speakers. Animale fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Jan 27, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 14:59
|
|
|
bird with big dick posted:It's pretty tough to go wrong with Denon. Is this the one they sell at Costco? It's the one they sell at Costco in the US but I'll be paying like $900 CAD for it in Canada. But that's just life up here. Maybe I'll look at the 660 though since I'm never going to run 7.2
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2023 18:40
|
|
|
I don't know if you're thought of it already but since you have a wall right there, I'd save the desk space and throw those speakers up on wall mounts that swivel/tilt. (Not recommending this particular product but the general idea is this:) https://www.amazon.com/Rockville-RHSB8-Theater-Bookshelf-Brackets/dp/B079ZSS7HP
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2023 23:36
|
|
|
Hippie Hedgehog posted:I don't know if you're thought of it already but since you have a wall right there, I'd save the desk space and throw those speakers up on wall mounts that swivel/tilt. That's not a bad idea but I don't have any tools besides some screwdrivers. Also, wouldn't putting the speakers on wall mounts make the speaker placements kind of uneven? One would be further away from the other, I think.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2023 00:20
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:That's not a bad idea but I don't have any tools besides some screwdrivers. Also, wouldn't putting the speakers on wall mounts make the speaker placements kind of uneven? One would be further away from the other, I think. I honestly don’t know how to parse that last sentence.  They’d be whatever distance from each other that you put them at, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2023 15:12
|
|
|
Hippie Hedgehog posted:I honestly don’t know how to parse that last sentence. Sorry, I need an editor for my thoughts and comments. I just meant that due to the curtain placement, speakers being placed to the left and right of it would look weird and I'm not sure if that would cause audio problems? My primary monitor is the middle one and the speakers would be shooting audio towards that area at different distances but I don't know enough about audio to say if that's actually an issue or not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2023 18:14
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Sorry, I need an editor for my thoughts and comments. I think the clamp on, telescopic desk mounts are probably your best bet for your desk
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2023 20:38
|
|
|
Random question but how important is it to have speakers at ear level? I realized my tv speakers are a bit below my ear level when I'm sitting down and facing my tv.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2023 23:18
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Random question but how important is it to have speakers at ear level? I realized my tv speakers are a bit below my ear level when I'm sitting down and facing my tv. Marginally impactful when you're further away. Think of a cone coming out of the tweeter. The closer you are, the narrower the cone is, so the more impact proper facing has. At TV distance, the cone, so to speak, is a much wider field, so you probably won't notice much difference. Fold some cardboard up and tuck it under the front of the speaker to tilt the speaker up, and then try a piece of music you know intimately back and forth. I doubt you'll pick up on much of a difference though
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 00:54
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:I just meant that due to the curtain placement, speakers being placed to the left and right of it would look weird and I'm not sure if that would cause audio problems? Aha, there's a window behind those curtains? Yeah then wall mounting would be right out, for the reason you mentioned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2023 11:21
|
|
|
Sorry for spamming the thread but I got my Kef q150s for my pc and hooked them up. They sound amazing this close up! I already liked them on my tv set up but wow, it's like the sound is coming directly from the monitor! I'm sure that's less the speakers themselves and more finally realizing how dumb and bad it was to have speakers on the floor but still. The speakers, I think, fit just fine. If they didn't fit or work out, I would've picked up the Micca. I think it looks better overall as well compared to the old setup. I really appreciate this thread for helping me. Also, those who said the center speaker was not needed were totally right. If there's any other advice or suggestions, I'm all ears but man, this is great. This was a much better upgrade for my pc than buying a new pc or whatever else. edit: I figured being this close, it was necessary to toe them in, but if I'm wrong, please let me know! Also, it doesn't seem like the isolation pads or stands are needed. They sound fine and don't rattle my desk. Ryuga Death fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Feb 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 07:16
|
|
|
I would toe them in less, maybe half of what you have them confused to parallel, and shove something under the front lip of the speakers to pop them up at an angle towards your ears. And yeah, having a decent sound setup is a game changer
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 07:56
|
|
|
Mederlock posted:I would toe them in less, maybe half of what you have them confused to parallel, and shove something under the front lip of the speakers to pop them up at an angle towards your ears. And yeah, having a decent sound setup is a game changer They are now a bit more parallel! Is this to make sure the sound is spread more evenly? Also, what sort of stuff should I put underneath the front lip of them?
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 08:11
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:They are now a bit more parallel! Is this to make sure the sound is spread more evenly? Also, what sort of stuff should I put underneath the front lip of them? Rubber door stopper/wedge is a pretty common tool for this.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 08:24
|
|
|
So I'd get something like this and place two of them under each speaker?
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 08:46
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:So I'd get something like this and place two of them under each speaker? Yeah exactly. You might need to find ones with the right angle / slope, but that's the idea.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 19:51
|
|
|
Don't know why it took me this long to notice and ask but what's the point of the foam plug insert things that came with my KEF 150 speakers?
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 23:48
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Don't know why it took me this long to notice and ask but what's the point of the foam plug insert things that came with my KEF 150 speakers? According to your manual, it does this, apparently  So, taking it out will give you a slight boost in the bass and more low range presence. Leaving it in gives you a more flat, neutral, unaltered tone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2023 23:54
|
|
|
Ryuga Death posted:Don't know why it took me this long to notice and ask but what's the point of the foam plug insert things that came with my KEF 150 speakers? Your speakers are rear ported and all your bass goes out that port or something. The foam thingies are there if you have to put your speakers against the wall, they make it so the bass isn't too boomy. If you can place your speakers 18' or whatever the sweet spot is from the wall then you don't need them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2023 05:26
|
|
|
Is it worth getting surround speakers if my couch is a sectional that's in the corner and also like 12ft away from the front speakers? I could probably back the couch away from the wall about a foot and get some stands but I feel like they're gonna be so close to my head and I'll be so far away from the fronts. Important caveat: I already own surrounds from an old system I have so the only money I'd need to spend would be on stands and speaker wire.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2023 06:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 05:15 |
|
|
Yeah it's worth it, as long as you can dictate the distance and volume level of each individual speaker in your AV Receiver's settings so the audio delay and relative volume balance between all the speakers is right. You could also mount it on the wall a little ways up
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2023 15:03
|
|