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Seventh Arrow posted:I'm in a situation that I haven't been in before, which is that I've been terminated from my job and I don't know how to handle this in interviews. Sounds like you were set up to fail. I might be too cynical but I wonder if your employer wanted to patch a budget hole and the newbie was easy to justify getting rid of. If it’s just a 4 month gap you could just leave your last job off your resume if you don’t have other gaps. Could also spin it as the company shifting priorities since it sounds like they just did a 100% RIF on the data engineers.
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Feb 4, 2023 22:21
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Thanks for your reply! I think there's probably too much of a LinkedIn paper trail to just pretend the job didn't exist. Mind you, some employers probably don't check but I have no way of knowing that. The RIF angle sounds interesting though - I will mull over how to spin that during an interview. Thanks again.
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Feb 4, 2023 22:56
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Seventh Arrow posted:I'm in a situation that I haven't been in before, which is that I've been terminated from my job and I don't know how to handle this in interviews. Its pretty nuts to terminate someone for performance 4 months into the job. That's VERY fast. I'd be very careful getting into any discussion about why because you might not really know what was at work there and the speculation will sound bad. How big is the company? How many software devs work at the company? If small and less than 10: I'd handle this by saying that you can only speculate on partial information but it seemed like they hired you to build this ETL pipeline exclusively then changed their mind once they understood what that'd take better. IMO this is a business situation that happens all the time and an honest representation of the situation based on what data you have shared...and assuming that you're correct about that data.
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Feb 4, 2023 22:57
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CarForumPoster posted:Its pretty nuts to terminate someone for performance 4 months into the job. That's VERY fast. I'd be very careful getting into any discussion about why because you might not really know what was at work there and the speculation will sound bad. This is the company: https://www.linkedin.com/company/fusionspan/ Still small by relative standards. There's some other developers, but a lot of it is 'data analysts'. Almost nothing in their environment is automated. From what I'm gathering, it sounds like my best bet is to say that there were shifting priorities at the org and they decided that RIF was the better option.
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Feb 4, 2023 23:07
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Seventh Arrow posted:I'm in a situation that I haven't been in before, which is that I've been terminated from my job and I don't know how to handle this in interviews. In this case 4 months might help you. I'd say something like "I came in there with an impression they needed one thing, and in reality they needed something else. It was a good company but unfortunately a bad fit. It made sense for us to part ways". It'd be worse if it was like 18 months, but a 4 month stint looks more like "They hired the wrong person" vs "you're a fuckup". CarForumPoster posted:If small and less than 10: I'd handle this by saying that you can only speculate on partial information but it seemed like they hired you to build this ETL pipeline exclusively then changed their mind once they understood what that'd take better. Yeah I also like this, and again, these comments are not falsehoods. This was a mistake on the companies part.
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Feb 5, 2023 04:30
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Thank Lockback, that makes a lot of sense.
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Feb 5, 2023 16:37
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Seventh Arrow posted:This is the company: https://www.linkedin.com/company/fusionspan/ This is small, though it lacks the "they have no experience hiring or managing developers" part I was hoping for. I'd suggest thinking over different responses and acting them out in a mirror or with friends. The goal is to plant and semi-confirm these elements in someone's mind without explicitly stating them.: Element 1) You're a bright dev, <---- You'll do this in the rest of the interview, dont try to do it in the same breath. Element 2) who speaks accurately and truthfully. Element 3) You simply don't know that much about why you were terminated, but want to be helpful.
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Feb 5, 2023 18:53
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Those are some good things to think about. Although they have experience hiring/managing developers, they don't have a lot of experience with data analysis/engineering. A lot of companies think that they want to be a part of this "BIG DATA" thing and find out that they don't need or aren't ready for it. A job interviewer might not have an understanding of that, though. I was mulling over the aspect of playing up the whole "I thought I was going to be part of a ~*TEAM*~ because I really value ~*TEAMWORK*~ but then I found out I didn't have a ~*TEAM*~, I was the only data engineer in the org." Of course, employers value teamwork but I think I'm better off emphasizing the notion that they had a shift of focus and I was (for all intents and purposes) the odd man out. Also, is there anything else I can do other than fire out resumes all day? Usually I will check a job posting on LinkedIn to see if the hiring manager and/or person listing the job is mentioned and send them a message. But other than that, are job fairs/meetups still a thing? Is there any kind of networking that I can do? I'm quite the introvert but I need to focus on effective solutions before my rent money runs out (I have a number of months before that will happen, fortunately)
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Feb 5, 2023 23:24
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Mostly firing off resumes, but go through your network and if you know anyone at a place that's hiring, have a chat and see if you can get a recommendation through. That's way to shortcut.
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Feb 6, 2023 00:31
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My resume has the city, state of where I work. Does this typically change for remote workers? The company is based out of Maryland, I live in Texas and work 100% remotely. Do people just keep where they live or do they put remote? I suppose either works I'm just curious what others do
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Feb 6, 2023 21:15
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George H.W. oval office posted:My resume has the city, state of where I work. Does this typically change for remote workers? The company is based out of Maryland, I live in Texas and work 100% remotely. Do people just keep where they live or do they put remote? I suppose either works I'm just curious what others do The company will decide if they care about where you are located. I'd maybe not list <Remote> explicitly, just let the company decide if they want to talk to you or not. If you're getting lots of contacts that dry up when you mention remote you can list it, but otherwise you might get yourself filtered out of jobs that might be open to remote after they see who you are.
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Feb 6, 2023 21:35
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George H.W. oval office posted:My resume has the city, state of where I work. Does this typically change for remote workers? The company is based out of Maryland, I live in Texas and work 100% remotely. Do people just keep where they live or do they put remote? I suppose either works I'm just curious what others do If you’re applying to jobs in the DMV, leave it as Maryland. If you’re applying for remote jobs, put it as remote. If you’re applying to TX jobs, put your TX location in parentheses. As in “Jobstown, MD (remotely based in Jobsville, TX)” Don’t lie if someone asks though.
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Feb 6, 2023 22:30
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I just don't bother and when recruiters approach me I tell them I'm not going into an office ever again. Sorts it out real quick.
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Feb 7, 2023 02:58
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Right after the new year I applied for an internal position at my small-company employer that looked like such a perfect fit it could have been tailored to my experience and skills. Then, two days before my interview, I accidentally found out (someone left a printed email out where I happened to see it) that the position was already earmarked for a particular not-me person and the interviewing process was a formality. Standard bullshit. But a funny thing happened. Knowing I wasn't getting the job no matter what I did (and also that I was already well along with another company, anyway) put me into a genuine Peter Gibbons headspace where I felt no pressure at all, didn't care about the outcome, and so I just went into it as relaxed as could be. Little more than kicking back and shooting the poo poo, practically. And I killed it. I walked out of there knowing that was probably the best interview performance of my life. It helped that the position was so well suited to me and I knew both interviewers, of course, but the total freedom from giving a poo poo about it was definitely a factor. They scheduled a second interview with me for last week, which turned out not to even be an interview at all. They skipped straight to offering me a different position they decided to create for me after the first interview, with a 30% pay bump that was pro forma negotiated to 40%. I wonder how much of their decision to do that was because I'm awesome, and how much was because my happily cavalier attitude during the first interview made them think "poo poo, we're about to lose this guy aren't we" even though I never actually said anything to that effect. I've observed for years that Not Giving A gently caress is actually really powerful in any kind of persuasive or negotiating environment, but I think I reached a whole new appreciation for it this month. If you can work yourself into that blue mental sky where you go into an interview not caring about the outcome, because gently caress it you're awesome and gonna be just fine regardless, it's like a superpower.
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Feb 7, 2023 03:30
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Eric the Mauve posted:I've observed for years that Not Giving A gently caress is actually really powerful in any kind of persuasive or negotiating environment, but I think I reached a whole new appreciation for it this month. If you can work yourself into that blue mental sky where you go into an interview not caring about the outcome, because gently caress it you're awesome and gonna be just fine regardless, it's like a superpower. I think like 80% of the value of experience is actually mostly this.
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Feb 7, 2023 03:40
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I explained it to a co-worker getting ticked off with a micromanaging boss as "just don't care". He tells you to do something stupid? Just don't care. Forget about it entirely. He's mad at you for not doing the stupid thing? Don't care about that either. Eventually he'll learn to stop expecting you to care and just let you do your job. I was there two months before the boss stopped asking me to do stupid dangerous poo poo. Co-worker had been there five years.
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Feb 7, 2023 04:09
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George H.W. oval office posted:My resume has the city, state of where I work. Does this typically change for remote workers? The company is based out of Maryland, I live in Texas and work 100% remotely. Do people just keep where they live or do they put remote? I suppose either works I'm just curious what others do The only advice i've heard on this front is dont explicitly list your home adress/zip/personally identifiable information. Some resumes get binned for being too identifiable/too much anti-segregation policies; others for skimming personal info to sell to ad netwworks. Tldr, don't list #state, zip, address - list #state, city if you have to. It sounds like you're ahead of that front tho.
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Feb 7, 2023 06:16
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Moved from negotiation thread coz I think it belongs here instead: I have a final round interview with HR coming up shortly for a role at a new company. I have already met all the relevant business stakeholders. I am unsure what this will involve as in the past the HR interview has always come at the start of the process as a screening measure: is this just another name for the meeting to negotiate an offer, or are there substantive questions I should expect from an HR director? Tech company, international role but likely they’ll expect me to relocate to one of the usual US tech hubs after the first year. It just feels really weird to me to see HR after everyone who will have interact with me has already gone “yup, ok.” But from googling it seems a lot of places do this?
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Feb 7, 2023 10:43
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Beefeater1980 posted:Moved from negotiation thread coz I think it belongs here instead: It’s common and for me has been the part where they make an offer, yea. Be ready to negotiate and make decisions.
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Feb 7, 2023 11:43
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Beefeater1980 posted:Moved from negotiation thread coz I think it belongs here instead:
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Feb 7, 2023 11:50
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TheParadigm posted:The only advice i've heard on this front is dont explicitly list your home adress/zip/personally identifiable information. This will get your resume tossed frequently too. It's better just to list that info. If the company needs someone local, getting your resume tossed for not being local isn't a problem, you get nothing for wasting yourself and everyone's time. If you're trying to relocate then there's some things you can do to improve those chances, but if you don't want to relocate list your address. Beefeater1980 posted:
I do this. It'll be an offer and walk through benefits.
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Feb 7, 2023 15:36
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Last job started 12/2021 and I was laid off 7/2022. Next job started 10/2022 and I was laid off today. Is there anything I can put on my resume to indicate these were layoffs and I'm not a serial job-jumper or should I not worry about it? I do have a brief elevator pitch paragraph on my resume, but I try to keep it concise about my skills with just a final sentence about why I'm in the job market.
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Feb 8, 2023 23:18
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Friend posted:Last job started 12/2021 and I was laid off 7/2022. I’d worry about it. Post your resume. Everyone fired for incompetence says they were laid off. If you were the new guy caught in a >10% reduction in force, aight. I’d make that clear in one sentence for each. I might even go so far as to link to a news article about it if one existed and I could do so without it seeming like overcompensating.
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Feb 10, 2023 03:18
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Heck just put "start date - end date (RIF)" and let them look it up if suspicious. It'll be trivial to check via googling.
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Feb 10, 2023 03:38
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Eric the Mauve posted:I've observed for years that Not Giving A gently caress is actually really powerful in any kind of persuasive or negotiating environment, but I think I reached a whole new appreciation for it this month. If you can work yourself into that blue mental sky where you go into an interview not caring about the outcome, because gently caress it you're awesome and gonna be just fine regardless, it's like a superpower. Arquinsiel posted:(RIF) Does anyone even know what those letters mean melon cat fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Feb 4, 2024 |
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Feb 10, 2023 04:08
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melon cat posted:Does anyone even know what those letters mean "Reduction In Force", aka a fancy way to say 'laid off'. I'm not sure what areas it's well-known in.
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Feb 10, 2023 04:53
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melon cat posted:No lie the interviews I've done best at are the ones where I really, truly did not give a gently caress whether I got the job or not.
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Feb 10, 2023 04:54
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Quackles posted:"Reduction In Force", aka a fancy way to say 'laid off'. I'm not sure what areas it's well-known in. HR will know the term.
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Feb 10, 2023 05:03
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Alright! Got my first "I accidentally left another company's name in my cover letter for a job I was actually qualified for" of the year out of the way.
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Feb 10, 2023 16:25
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Oh boy I have an initial phone interview on Wednesday yaaaay It’s for a position incredibly similar to mine now but different industry, and likely different workflow. I’ve heard about applicants interviewing companies - is that something worth considering at this stage, or at all?
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Feb 10, 2023 16:57
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What do you mean exactly? The interview is a two way street. You should be asking questions that you want answered regarding the company's position, strategy, goals, how it operates, your team, etc. You should also do some pre-research on the company to learn some of these things so that your questions are not completely unanchored and that you can get to a level of useful detail in your interview.
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Feb 10, 2023 17:00
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m0therfux0r posted:Alright! Got my first "I accidentally left another company's name in my cover letter for a job I was actually qualified for" of the year out of the way. *points to head* Can't heck up a cover letter if you never send a cover letter.
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Feb 10, 2023 17:06
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You are never obligated to take or grovel for a job. Politely removing yourself from consideration after an interview will not give you a black mark anywhere that's worth working for. That's what interviews are for and it's not at all a problem. It's not like taking a job and then pulling out. If you "waste" an interview your just using time they have set aside to find a candidate. When a candidate accepts a position and then backtracks you need to restart the entire hiring machine again which is significant and may have screwed over other candidates who were cut loose, hence why that usually is a problem (though there are situations where it might be the right move regardless). Finally, if you go into an interview with the mindset that you are interviewing them as much as they are you, you are almost certainly going to do a better job in general.
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Feb 10, 2023 17:42
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Does anyone have some tips or advice on what to expect for a third (final) interview and facility tour on an entry level IT help desk job? After looking up the names of the people I am scheduled to meet with on LinkedIn (split over two hour-long meetings with a 30 min campus tour in between), it looks like it is going to be with what would be my peers (if hired). Quick timeline: quote:This past Wednesday, my first interview was over the phone with HR where they asked me specific questions to gauge my technical aptitude for the position (got all of them correct according to her) as well as to talk about myself. Took about half an hour and they said that they had a good time speaking with me and that they would definitely recommend me to the hiring manager. Got a call from the same HR person saying that the hiring manager would be excited to meet with me for the second interview over video conferencing the next day. I'm kinda nervous because I've never had a job in IT before and I've also never had a job where I'd had to go to a third round of interviews. I wrote out the timeline above mainly to try and give myself confidence because it does seem like they do want me? Edit: Also as a side question, what should I be wearing if I was told that the office has a casual dress code and that I should wear something comfortable and presentable? ihatepants fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Feb 11, 2023 |
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Feb 11, 2023 10:06
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ihatepants posted:Edit: Also as a side question, what should I be wearing if I was told that the office has a casual dress code and that I should wear something comfortable and presentable?
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Feb 11, 2023 10:31
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It’s IT help desk - you probably would be fine with recently laundered clothes without stains or ahegao faces on them. But yeah decent slacks and a collared shirt plus boring but comfortable shoes will definitely do the trick. If it’s an interview with peers they probably want to get a feel of is this guy going to make my job harder or not and is this guy going to be lovely to work with. Show interest, be polite, ask some work related questions, ask some non work related questions, and try to convey that you are a competent and helpful person that they will at least not hate working with.
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Feb 11, 2023 13:43
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CarForumPoster posted:I’d worry about it. Post your resume. Everyone fired for incompetence says they were laid off. If you were the new guy caught in a >10% reduction in force, aight. I’d make that clear in one sentence for each. I might even go so far as to link to a news article about it if one existed and I could do so without it seeming like overcompensating. Thanks, I got my first rando recruiter message on linkedin and sure enough she asked why my jobs were so short, so I added a sentence in my linkedin experience and put "(Layoff)" after the years on my resume. Hope that works
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Feb 14, 2023 03:49
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Right now I'm participating in the hiring process for entry level (like $14/hour) staff and you would not believe how bad the resumes are. Like google docs has templates that just prompt you for info and make the resume for you, how can you make it look this bad and sound this much like it was dictated by a second grader.
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Feb 14, 2023 04:00
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You say that like PhD resumes aren’t just as bad.
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Feb 14, 2023 04:18
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Eric the Mauve posted:Right now I'm participating in the hiring process for entry level (like $14/hour) staff and you would not believe how bad the resumes are. Like google docs has templates that just prompt you for info and make the resume for you, how can you make it look this bad and sound this much like it was dictated by a second grader. Yea $14/hr was livable here 10 years ago. Now it’s what Dunkin donuts pays. You’re gonna be getting resumes from people who were fired from Dunkin’ Donuts.
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Feb 14, 2023 05:14
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