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Ironically, the whole "right click-copy" meme is basically the entire reason this tech can exist in its current state at all. Artists might soon start demanding DRM baked into file formats, just without the blockchain nft part.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:23
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:The Art is not in the process of asking the machine to display an image, but in the machine reflecting various bits of Human Art back in a fun house mirror collage. It is sort of the same artistic process that happens looking through a kaleidoscope. that's why AI art is cool tbh. it's like a platonic form generator. the outputs all look soulless and awful but it's cool to see what the most chair-like chair that could ever exist is Futanari Damacy posted:"Eventually there will probably be some benefit" is not a convincing sell as to why it should exist in the first place there already are benefits, though, unless you think that stuff like video frame interpolation and image restoration and upscaling is evil
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Feb 6, 2023 23:23
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porfiria posted:Maybe, but it seems as though AI can be very quickly trained to emulate particular artists or modes. it can definitely do that. it cannot make art.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:26
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turn off the TV posted:it's like a platonic form generator. the outputs all look soulless and awful but it's cool to see what the most chair-like chair that could ever exist is this is not anything at all like what it does
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Feb 6, 2023 23:27
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turn off the TV posted:]there already are benefits, though, unless you think that stuff like video frame interpolation and image restoration and upscaling is evil the point is that neither of those are new, just they'll be cheaper for consumers. you can throw it on this chart, great 
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Feb 6, 2023 23:28
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Zodium posted:it can definitely do that. it cannot make art. But, even supposing that's true, the live question is--can you tell the difference?
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Feb 6, 2023 23:29
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mawarannahr posted:this is not anything at all like what it does these models are fed millions or billions of captioned images that are scraped from the internet and learn to predict what pixels should go where in order to most accurately recreate every image with that caption. If you tell stable diffusion to generate a dog it tries to generate a dog that looks like the most generic dog possible.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:30
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Zodium posted:it can definitely do that. it cannot make art. yeah but porfiria was talking about real world use cases and adoption or lack thereof not meaningless philosophical definition wars
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Feb 6, 2023 23:30
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turn off the TV posted:these models are fed millions or billions of captioned images that are scraped from the internet and learn to predict what pixels should go where in order to most accurately recreate every image with that caption. If you tell stable diffusion to generate a dog it tries to generate a dog that looks like the most generic dog possible. captioned images of something taken by digital cameras do not capture anything at all about the essence of a dog
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Feb 6, 2023 23:31
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porfiria posted:But, even supposing that's true, the live question is--can you tell the difference? yes, you'll easily be able to tell the difference once the low hanging fruit phase ends. perception abhors convergence.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:31
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webcams for christ posted:wow a labor-saving device what a revolutionary concept Surely this newfound efficiency was conceived to improve the wellbeing of the laborers!
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Feb 6, 2023 23:34
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:yeah but porfiria was talking about real world use cases and adoption or lack thereof perception isn't philosophical. if you can generate endless variations on picasso, you'll simply get tired of picasso.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:36
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Tree Reformat posted:Ironically, the whole "right click-copy" meme is basically the entire reason this tech can exist in its current state at all. Print screen. There's no overcoming The Analog Problem.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:38
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reignonyourparade posted:Print screen. There's no overcoming The Analog Problem. that's what I've gone all in on as a musician. never released a single recording. you wanna hear me go see the ticket office
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Feb 6, 2023 23:40
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mawarannahr posted:captioned images of something taken by digital cameras do not capture anything at all about the essence of a dog you can't pet a picture of a dog.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:42
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reignonyourparade posted:Print screen. There's no overcoming The Analog Problem. On smartphones, at least, an app can absolutely tell the system to disallow screenshotting. But yeah, basically everything would have to be watermarked in some way, and all devices would have to honor the watermark to plug the hole. Attribution is a genuine problem with no good solution because most people are assholes.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:42
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Zodium posted:you can't pet a picture of a dog. I mean you CAN it just sucks
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Feb 6, 2023 23:43
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Zodium posted:perception isn't philosophical. if you can generate endless variations on picasso, you'll simply get tired of picasso. that's true, if you wanna say "it's too derivative and won't catch on because of that" that's a reasonable point to make. (idk if i believe it considering the amount of same face anime art that exists on twitter but it's a consistent argument) but that's a very different point from "it won't catch on because it's not art". i'm gonna take a guess and say less than 0.1% of the people retweeting youre poasts on twitter have read any academic papers about duchamp's fountain
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Feb 6, 2023 23:44
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porfiria posted:But, even supposing that's true, the live question is--can you tell the difference? A lot of the time yeah, actually. I think that it's pretty hard to match image composition and content mawarannahr posted:captioned images of something taken by digital cameras do not capture anything at all about the essence of a dog i figured that you would just kind of assume from the context of an AI image generator that I'd be referred to pictures of dogs here
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Feb 6, 2023 23:48
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The weirdest part of this whole thing is people going "How do you propose stopping other people from stealing your stuff? You can't!" as if that itself is a sufficient justification for stealing! It's a very Effective Altruist move to deliberately immiserate the creative class even further because it might result in the leisure class having one more Netflix series to mindlessly binge. But it does track.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:53
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turn off the TV posted:i figured that you would just kind of assume from the context of an AI image generator that I'd be referred to pictures of dogs here it's an average representation of CCD response and various camera manufacturers' arbitrary processing algorithms with pictures obtained from largely western sources and satisfying arbitrary requirements and availability for the company. recent pictures themselves are trained on models of what photos are supposed to look like. it's google image search with extra steps; it is no more an ideal of a dog picture than the first result for a dog on image search.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:54
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mawarannahr posted:it's an average representation of CCD response and various camera manufacturers' arbitrary processing algorithms with pictures obtained from largely western sources and satisfying arbitrary requirements and availability for the company. recent pictures themselves are trained on models of what photos are supposed to look like. yeah if you just leave out the part about how it's taking the average across all of these pictures then you're right
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Feb 6, 2023 23:56
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:that's true, if you wanna say "it's too derivative and won't catch on because of that" that's a reasonable point to make. (idk if i believe it considering the amount of same face anime art that exists on twitter but it's a consistent argument) you don't need to read papers to get tired of repetition. for my money, it's going to be like any other art tool where you'll have artists working to make content to train models.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:56
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Futanari Damacy posted:The weirdest part of this whole thing is people going "How do you propose stopping other people from stealing your stuff? You can't!" as if that itself is a sufficient justification for stealing! unauthorized copying is not and has never been "theft", despite what the riaa's pr campagins claim and it's still up for debate whether this even counts as unauthorized copying Zodium posted:you don't need to read papers to get tired of repetition. for my money, it's going to be like any other art tool where you'll have artists working to make content to train models. yeah i'm not fighting you on the repetition thing, I just took offense to tying that back into the old real-art-or-not debate RPATDO_LAMD has issued a correction as of 23:59 on Feb 6, 2023 |
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Feb 6, 2023 23:57
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Futanari Damacy posted:The weirdest part of this whole thing is people going "How do you propose stopping other people from stealing your stuff? You can't!" as if that itself is a sufficient justification for stealing! now you're a bad person for defending copyright laws, which exclusively benefit Disney and no one else
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Feb 6, 2023 23:57
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turn off the TV posted:yeah if you just leave out the part about how it's taking the average across all of these pictures then you're right is the arithmetic mean of 1, 2, 3, and 100 a platonic ideal of that set? even the numbers I selected aren't a platonic ideal of number set, which would need many more
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Feb 6, 2023 23:58
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:unauthorized copying is not and has never been "theft", despite what the riaa's pr campagins claim if you covertly recorded one of my concerts and sold copies and I didn't get a cut you loving stole from me, sorry.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:59
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:unauthorized copying is not and has never been "theft", despite what the riaa's pr campagins claim art is a process. ai is a different process. ai is not art.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:59
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i don't even know what a duchamp is but even I can see that if one is a convergent process and the other is a divergent process, you have two different processes. its not that hard. you're overthinking it
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Feb 7, 2023 00:01
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:unauthorized copying is not and has never been "theft", despite what the riaa's pr campagins claim This gets back to the whole "what society owes creatives" question: aside from the obvious material concerns, there's this sense that creating a thing should automatically give you exclusive ownership over it, and thus control over when, where, and how it can be used, even if that "thing" is an abstract idea or concept. To me, that seems antithetical to socialist theory of all of society owed the fruits of labor equally, including creative labor. Curiously, no one ever seems to want to use this argument when the "things" being created are human beings (unless they're conservatives, anyway).
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Feb 7, 2023 00:02
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Zodium posted:you don't need to read papers to get tired of repetition. for my money, it's going to be like any other art tool where you'll have artists working to make content to train models. At first I thought this said "make train models" and I thought, yeah get with it AI people. You should be trying to sell us on it by showing us what it's capable of- show me something like a cool Art Deco streamliner, or a bullet train, maybe a Soviet one that never existed, collaborated by Vector Aeromotive. Maybe a Frank Lloyd Wright train would be a good prompt.
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Feb 7, 2023 00:02
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Tree Reformat posted:This gets back to the whole "what society owes creatives" question: aside from the obvious material concerns, there's this sense that creating a thing should automatically give you exclusive ownership over it, and thus control over when, where, and how it can be used, even if that "thing" is an abstract idea or concept. To me, that seems antithetical to socialist theory of all of society owed the fruits of labor equally, including creative labor. people ought to have a reasonable amount of control over the dissemination of their own likeness in any economy plagiarism is also a transgression that should have material consequences, especially if someone got lots of prestige/career advancement/etc for passing off someone else's work as their own.
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Feb 7, 2023 00:05
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turn off the TV posted:these models are fed millions or billions of captioned images that are scraped from the internet and learn to predict what pixels should go where in order to most accurately recreate every image with that caption. If you tell stable diffusion to generate a dog it tries to generate a dog that looks like the most generic dog possible. No it doesn't.
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Feb 7, 2023 00:07
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how many pics are there in stable diffusion of the Chinese rural dog (tugou), one of the word's most populous breeds?
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Feb 7, 2023 00:13
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abolishing the right to collect Rents from artwork is fine in a situation where artists are paid for their labor / ubi artists should always be entitled to kinds of Creative Commons licenses while they're alive my last hot take before bed
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Feb 7, 2023 00:14
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webcams for christ posted:now you're a bad person for defending copyright laws, which exclusively benefit Disney and no one else I haven't seen any indication these people are unwilling to pay for their Marvel/Disney or whatever, it's anyone independent they resent giving money to
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Feb 7, 2023 00:15
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Tree Reformat posted:We can already make bespoke models trained on specific types of images, and things like ChatGPT and Character.AI both use secondary ai to police the output of the generator AI. It's entirely possible to put those ideas together to create AuthenticEgyptianAI or whatever other style you'd want. You'd probably have to do a lot of specific training on images of each glyph and their exact meaning to get readable writing in there, but I'm not seeing anything that a generative system could never do given enough R&D. How is it AI if you still have to be the one to feed it a bespoke set of Egyptian images, rather than it being able to discern by itself what is and isn't Egyptian art that it needs to ape when you tell it to make Egyptian art?
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Feb 7, 2023 00:24
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re ai dog chat here are 9 random results for "studio photograph of a german shepherd"  and here is "studio photograph of a tugou dog"  none of these look like the dogs on google image search so i guess the training data (photos with english-language labels/captions scraped off the web) is lacking gradenko_2000 posted:How is it AI if you still have to be the one to feed it a bespoke set of Egyptian images, rather than it being able to discern by itself what is and isn't Egyptian art that it needs to ape when you tell it to make Egyptian art? it's not intelligent, it's just "diffusion-based image generation". pop science media loves the term AI though so it's caught on for everything
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Feb 7, 2023 00:32
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:re ai dog chat https://rom1504.github.io/clip-retr...+of+a+tugou+dog
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Feb 7, 2023 00:37
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lol 
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Feb 7, 2023 00:46
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