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Mirage posted:Isn't that Battlezoo's whole thing? I mean yes I mention it repeatedly. I'm thinking of running Quest for the Frozen Flame with the Battlezoo monster parts rules, but I haven't had an opportunity yet. The treasure is apparently all wonky anyway and you basically never get to shop since you're roaming around on the frozen tundra. Most people just run ABP and get rid of most of whatever treasure there is, but could be perfect for an alternate treasure system. I don't think PF2E is a great system for a monster hunter(as in the video game series) game in general though. It doesn't do single monster boss fights very well, because they really wanted you to be able to fight the exact same monster as a boss at low levels and a mook at high levels, with no change in stats or rules. That means that if you make a really interesting monster, it will feel incredibly tedious to run when you have 4 or 6 of them because the players are higher level, and it may just be too strong to run as a single APL+3 threat. Fights work best with maybe 2-4 monsters, and if you want to do it differently you have to curate or homebrew pretty carefully to make it feel good.
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Feb 6, 2023 16:56
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M. Night Skymall posted:I mean yes I mention it repeatedly. I'm thinking of running Quest for the Frozen Flame with the Battlezoo monster parts rules, but I haven't had an opportunity yet. The treasure is apparently all wonky anyway and you basically never get to shop since you're roaming around on the frozen tundra. Most people just run ABP and get rid of most of whatever treasure there is, but could be perfect for an alternate treasure system. I mean that's kind of true in MonHun as well. At some point you out gear and out knowledge a lot of the monsters so them showing up isn't a huge deal Its why they introduce variants and boosted versions with new gimmicks and attacks that are essentially new monsters with some shared moves.
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Feb 6, 2023 17:03
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:I mean that's kind of true in MonHun as well. At some point you out gear and out knowledge a lot of the monsters so them showing up isn't a huge deal Beat me to it, cause I was thinking this sounds exactly like Monster Hunter plays out. First time you fight a Yian Kut Ku it'll thrash you, but by the time you're fighting elder dragons you mostly just bonking it on the head on your way to something more important. And if you want to fight a stronger version of the old ones you fight the named 'unique' Yian Garuga who has a lore and backstory. If anything, PF2 with Battlezoo might be the closest thing to a tabletop MH game until that boardgame finally makes it to backers. I may have backed it just so I can co opt the minis for a a PF2:MH campaign. I'm still up in the air on whether the game will be worth it, steam forged games is so inconsistent with their releases I have no idea what to expect.
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Feb 6, 2023 17:10
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M. Night Skymall posted:I was hoping you were going to give me a system, I backed this poo poo by Jim McClure 4 years ago and I'm hoping it's going to come out someday. ??????????? do you actually think making a joke means i was talkin about poo poo in bad faith for pages? is this what debate and discussion is like or something? im so confused i want paizo to make a good crafting system that's fun, interesting and worthwhile to use because their current system sucks rear end. crafting cool poo poo rules and it seems like the type of thing they could do well. no i do not have a system that has figured this out in mind, but i hope paizo does, and i hope they themselves do it for their own ruleset. thing is bad currently, i would like them to instead make it good.
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Feb 6, 2023 17:27
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sugar free jazz posted:??????????? There’s alternative crafting rules coming out in the Treasure Vault book coming this month. Hopefully they are good, but Toshimo has a point that crafting can easily and frequently become a thing where one player monopolizes the game with minutiae and the rest of the party twiddles their thumbs.
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Feb 6, 2023 17:40
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Epi Lepi posted:There’s alternative crafting rules coming out in the Treasure Vault book coming this month. Hopefully they are good, but Toshimo has a point that crafting can easily and frequently become a thing where one player monopolizes the game with minutiae and the rest of the party twiddles their thumbs. you cannot make a system that is completely unable to be abused by assholes! literally just talk to your gm and/or the other players like an adult! that is a player problem and should be handled like any other problem player behavior!
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Feb 6, 2023 17:43
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I don't even think it's a player behavior problem necessarily, it's just that the alternatives to crafting during downtime take up way less IRL time and energy, so that if only one player is doing crafting it's necessarily going to be a thing that only they are really interacting with for the duration. It's like the decker problem in Shadowrun, except even worse because not even the player who gets to engage with the rules is getting to do anything interesting.
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Feb 6, 2023 17:48
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sugar free jazz posted:??????????? My bad. I'm just frustrated since you want better crafting rules, and one of the lead designers of PF2E literally made better (or at least different) crafting rules, but you don't like them because Paizo didn't publish it. The rules are available online for free same as most PF2 stuff but not through AoN since they'll only do Paizo published material. Ravus Ursus posted:If anything, PF2 with Battlezoo might be the closest thing to a tabletop MH game until that boardgame finally makes it to backers. I think it's probably true that PF2E is one of the better existing systems for a monster hunter game, but also still not great. I've just had so many bad single monster boss fights I'm leery of running a campaign that focuses very heavily on that. What I really want is 4E's tagging system so it distinguishes boss/mook monsters, and probably built-in support for multi-phase boss fights.
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Feb 6, 2023 18:21
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:Fun typos! Hey, so I love Starfinder, and if you're interested and available, I'll be running an intro society scenario next Thursday Feb 16 at 7pm EST. I can send you the link. It will take 3-4 hours.
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Feb 6, 2023 18:47
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So there’s a new archetype in the Gatewalkers AP that seems extremely cool, but also, like so many of the mechanical options found in APs, reads like it was never even looked at for a second by an editor from the design team to figure out if this poo poo works properly, mechanically. https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=199 The two issues that leap out at me at first read: The Basic/Expert/Master spellcasting feats provide new spells known but they don’t provide spell slots/Basic/Expert/Master spellcasting benefits. Basically, you learn spells but never get any way to cast them. And then you have feats like Starlight Armor which just straight up doesn’t have a duration for an extremely strong effect. It’s just lazy stuff that even 30 seconds of proofreading from someone whose primary goal is rule consistency would have caught.
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Feb 6, 2023 20:36
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OgreNoah posted:Hey, so I love Starfinder, and if you're interested and available, I'll be running an intro society scenario next Thursday Feb 16 at 7pm EST. I can send you the link. It will take 3-4 hours. Yeah, shoot it over!
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Feb 6, 2023 21:21
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Chevy Slyme posted:So there’s a new archetype in the Gatewalkers AP that seems extremely cool, but also, like so many of the mechanical options found in APs, reads like it was never even looked at for a second by an editor from the design team to figure out if this poo poo works properly, mechanically. The rules for archetypes in general establish that spellcasting archetypes give slots with each Basic/Expert/Master feat: https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=167 I don't have a clue as to the Armor feat though. sugar free jazz posted:you cannot make a system that is completely unable to be abused by assholes! literally just talk to your gm and/or the other players like an adult! that is a player problem and should be handled like any other problem player behavior! It's not an rear end in a top hat thing it's just intrinsic that crafting is boring unless you're the one doing it and sometimes even then. Like full stop. I don't even know why you're having a meltdown about crafting of all things. You're mad that the crafting rules as is are bad, which no one disagrees with, but you're also arguing with everyone about it?
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Feb 6, 2023 22:40
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Epi Lepi posted:The rules for archetypes in general establish that spellcasting archetypes give slots with each Basic/Expert/Master feat: That's clearly what's intended, but the relevant feats don't actually say that you gain the basic spellcasting benefits, as feats typically do for other spellcasting archetypes. Between that and the armor feat, it does feel like this was lazy editing to me.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:09
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VikingofRock posted:That's clearly what's intended, but the relevant feats don't actually say that you gain the basic spellcasting benefits, as feats typically do for other spellcasting archetypes. Between that and the armor feat, it does feel like this was lazy editing to me. Ah true, I didn't look up if there was a typical way of notating the benefits in other archetypes, just assumed that Basic implied the benefits. I mean, it does, but it's better for things to be spelled out than not. I don't think anyone not being deliberately obtuse would argue that you can't cast those spells because it doesn't say you get slots but the armor is a big deal since there's nothing that gives us context about it's duration.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:22
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Epi Lepi posted:The rules for archetypes in general establish that spellcasting archetypes give slots with each Basic/Expert/Master feat: Every other spellcasting archetype EITHER 1) refers explicitly to granting basic/expert/master spellcasting benefits. OR 2) explicitly provides some other mechanism for managing spells and slots (see: Captivator with it’s weird innate casting, or Red Mantis Assassin with it’s oddball spellbook for examples.) There is no spellcasting archetype for which it is implicitly assumed as you’re clsiming here. Compare: quote:You gain the basic spellcasting benefits. When you gain a spell slot of a new level from the psychic archetype, add a spell of the appropriate spell level to your repertoire: a common occult spell, one of the granted spells from your conscious mind, or another spell you've learned or discovered. Or quote:Your innate ability to fascinate others develops into full-fledged spellcasting. This spellcasting comes naturally and instinctively to you, rather than as a product of training. Choose a 1st-level occult spell from either the enchantment or illusion school. You can Cast this Spell as an occult innate spell. At 6th level, you gain a 2nd-level spell, and at 8th level, you gain a 3rd-level spell. Each of these spells must be from either the enchantment or illusion school. To quote:The stars move, granting you a sliver of their magic. Choose a 1st-level spell from any spell list to add to your spell repertoire. You can Cast this Spell as an occult Oatia skysage spell. For a system whose main selling points include the extremely clearly defined and carefully curated system of keywords and the lack of rules ambiguity that that creates, this represents, at minimum, pretty slapdash editing. You can say the intent is clear, but I don’t know that it actually is, given that the other spellcasting archetypes either include the spellcasting benefits text, or explicitly include alternative text. This archetype just does neither.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:33
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Chevy Slyme posted:Every other spellcasting archetype EITHER The intent is clear. You're being, as I said, deliberately obtuse. You have a real argument about the armor, stick with that.
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Feb 6, 2023 23:39
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Epi Lepi posted:The intent is clear. You're being, as I said, deliberately obtuse. You have a real argument about the armor, stick with that. There’s a difference between being deliberately obtuse and saying “this is how it works and it’s bad but at my table I go by RAWWWWWWW”, which you seem to think I’m doing, and saying “hey, this is an editing issue, it’s not done the way they’ve always done it, and that’s bad because consistency and key wording are kind of the whole point of why this system is good and functional”
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Feb 6, 2023 23:53
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Epi Lepi posted:The intent is clear. You're being, as I said, deliberately obtuse. You have a real argument about the armor, stick with that. The intent is actually only semi-clear, because master spellcasting benefits usually only include 8th level, whereas the archetype goes up to 9th. There's a solid argument that it should be akin to Captivator, which also gets 9th level spells, that it's supposed to be an innate slot, but the archetype itself specifies that it's spontaneous. (I'd assume the armour is either 1 or 10 min duration since that's pretty standard, but that's the difference between being able to precast it or not.)
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Feb 7, 2023 00:26
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The armor is weird because it looks like a spell but its not. I think?
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Feb 7, 2023 00:42
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Chevy Slyme posted:There’s a difference between being deliberately obtuse and saying “this is how it works and it’s bad but at my table I go by RAWWWWWWW”, which you seem to think I’m doing, and saying “hey, this is an editing issue, it’s not done the way they’ve always done it, and that’s bad because consistency and key wording are kind of the whole point of why this system is good and functional” You're right I was reading an adversarial slant to your posts that wasn't there, my bad. I was also indirectly objecting to calling it "lazy" editing since I highly doubt any of the actual editors involved were being lazy and were more likely to have been rushed or overworked but that still results in an issue. Cyouni posted:The intent is actually only semi-clear, because master spellcasting benefits usually only include 8th level, whereas the archetype goes up to 9th. That's interesting, goes to show that I should have looked at the whole archetype, though without knowing/remembering about the Captivator I wouldn't have had a reason to think differently. Which goes to prove Chevy Slyme's point that there is an editing issue since now there's two alternate readings with solid justification.
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Feb 7, 2023 01:15
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How overpowered is it as an indefinite effect compared to other specialized "make me less squishy" powers? Rules as written it's a feat where you put on magic armor and can't put it on again until tomorrow, if removed Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 01:27
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So I'm a book-learner who abhors SRD sites. I just picked up the third tier of the Humble Bundle package for Pathfinder 2e. I have limited space on my phone and some of these titles are less than indicative. Which books are worth reading through before I consider joining a game? (I have a background of ten years in tabletop spaces, so I'm not asking for anyone to read the book to me, just explain which useful things outside core are found where.)
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Feb 7, 2023 01:48
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Iron Heart posted:So I'm a book-learner who abhors SRD sites. I just picked up the third tier of the Humble Bundle package for Pathfinder 2e. I have limited space on my phone and some of these titles are less than indicative. Which books are worth reading through before I consider joining a game? (I have a background of ten years in tabletop spaces, so I'm not asking for anyone to read the book to me, just explain which useful things outside core are found where.) Core rulebook - advanced player’s guide - the rules variants chapter of the gamemastery guide are the big ones.
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Feb 7, 2023 02:06
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I don't think the APG was in the bundle, was it? The bundle did contain the starter kit, and if the Core Rulebook is too overwhelming place to start, then going to the starter's Hero's Handbook would give more concise overview before diving in.
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Feb 7, 2023 02:08
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Chevy Slyme posted:There’s a difference between being deliberately obtuse and saying “this is how it works and it’s bad but at my table I go by RAWWWWWWW”, which you seem to think I’m doing, and saying “hey, this is an editing issue, it’s not done the way they’ve always done it, and that’s bad because consistency and key wording are kind of the whole point of why this system is good and functional”
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Feb 7, 2023 02:09
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MadScientistWorking posted:Sort of. The archetype you posted has more to do with the Captivator than it does with the core spellcasting archetype progression. The Captivator isn’t unique though; the Ghost Hunter uses the same innate spellcasting rather than slots model, and the Red Mantis Assassin is a whole other thing as well. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume expect spellcasting benefits that follow the “default” as seen in multiclass archetypes to do so explicitly, not implicitly, and I think it’s generally healthier for the system if that is the case.
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Feb 7, 2023 02:15
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Chevy Slyme posted:Right, the problem is that it doesn’t even fulfill that goal of “this is a system that provides players with access to the specific items they want instead of the ones the GM gives them” because of the specific requirement for tons of downtime which other players don’t have anything useful to do with. That's a RP issue, not a mechanics issue. If a character doesn't want to do crafting or income earning activities, that character is very likely to enjoy time off. You go through a grueling adventure where you are constantly looking over your shoulder for danger and never able to get a good night's sleep: getting to spend a couple weeks in town blowing off steam is your character's reward. Just going from fight to fight with no downtime ought to leave the party a bunch of nervous wrecks with PTSD before you reach 5th level. Maybe it isn't what your player wants to spend time on, but any amount of downtime can be resolved in 10 minutes of player time if that's how you want to resolve it. One thing that irks me on some live plays is that 3 months of in character time has gone by, and everyone in the party has gone up 10 levels. They've gone from unknown homeless hobos to some of the most powerful people in the world practically overnight. I'd really prefer that they had a few weeks between jobs where they are theoretically studying, practicing, consulting libraries, sparring etc to refine what they've learned. There should be more to godlike power than just committing a few dozen murders.
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Feb 7, 2023 02:16
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Chevy Slyme posted:The Captivator isn’t unique though; the Ghost Hunter uses the same innate spellcasting rather than slots model,
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Feb 7, 2023 02:27
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Harold Fjord posted:How overpowered is it as an indefinite effect compared to other specialized "make me less squishy" powers? As an indefinite effect? I'd probably look at Hellknight for comparison. That takes a level 6 feat for armour specialization (for 4-6 resistance to one of the three), a level 4 feat for another (equal to the number of Hellknight feats you have, so you'd need at least 7 to equal). This is a level 14 feat for resistance 7 to all physical (scaling to 10), plus you auto-dazzle anything that attacks you if they fail the save. I don't even have a comparison for the last one because that's only ever on short term things.
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Feb 7, 2023 03:00
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Facebook Aunt posted:One thing that irks me on some live plays is that 3 months of in character time has gone by, and everyone in the party has gone up 10 levels. They've gone from unknown homeless hobos to some of the most powerful people in the world practically overnight. I'd really prefer that they had a few weeks between jobs where they are theoretically studying, practicing, consulting libraries, sparring etc to refine what they've learned. There should be more to godlike power than just committing a few dozen murders. And, in fact, Strength of Thousands enforces having to spend quite a lot of in-universe time between your levels. PF in general has always been wildly inconsistent about how long it takes to level, though, and inherited a lot of that from D&D3 and to an extent AD&D2.
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Feb 7, 2023 03:10
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On the other end is Fists of the Ruby Phoenix where you go from 11-20 in maybe a month with the entire time more or less accounted for in a pretty linear schedule in the AP since it's a tournament.
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Feb 7, 2023 03:45
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I think the intent is obvious but the archetype is written badly the armor feat is obviously not intended to be indefinite because it has an action cost rather than being a passive effect, the spellcasting stuff is obviously supposed to be like captivator (or, even more likely given that it's INT based, make its own archetype list like with halcyon speaker) but they formatted it incorrectly and forgot to mention spell slots I believe this because saying "add to your repertoire" means that if it was just learning the spells, the archetype does not function at all for prepared casters; they'd use the template of "add to your spell list" as for downtime and crafting: PF2e seems to be designed to have a bunch of downtime between adventuring, given the various earn income and downtime activities stuff. However, I think the only AP actually written to give that downtime explicitly is Strength of Thousands, and the others are done in such a way as to disincentivize taking a month off from a pacing perspective Jen X fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 04:19
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Iron Heart posted:So I'm a book-learner who abhors SRD sites. I just picked up the third tier of the Humble Bundle package for Pathfinder 2e. I have limited space on my phone and some of these titles are less than indicative. Which books are worth reading through before I consider joining a game? (I have a background of ten years in tabletop spaces, so I'm not asking for anyone to read the book to me, just explain which useful things outside core are found where.) The core book is technically all you need. The advanced guide adds advanced classes, but aside from that you don't need much..if you're really interested in a class read their book though!
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Feb 7, 2023 04:22
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Jen X posted:I think the intent is obvious but the archetype is written badly That group of spells aren't prepared. It's an innate caster getting slots defined by the general rule. Has anyone fed this to chat-gpt?
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Feb 7, 2023 05:15
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:Apologies in advance, I searched for a Starfinder thread and the only one I found was archived from 2018. Which might actually answer my question: Starfinder is a thumbs down from me because it leans way into the "do the single optimized combat thing every turn for the entire campaign" problem, yet is still too fiddly with the numbers and abilities to actually make the most of that and turn into a game of XCOM instead.
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Feb 7, 2023 05:52
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Harold Fjord posted:That group of spells aren't prepared. It's an innate caster getting slots defined by the general rule. it's badly edited because it's very clearly intended to operate like any of the non-captivator spellcasting archetypes, but thanks to lacking the text that lets you actually gain slots (either directly, by referring to granting slots, or indirectly, by referring to the specific wording of gaining basic/expert/master spellcasting benefits), does not do that As is, what it does is boost your occult DCs and gives you a bunch of spells in a repertoire you have no spell slots in, which is stupid and obviously not what they want it to do The alternative possibility would be that it added spells to your main list of options, like, say, the Time Mage, but while that would also be poorly phrased a few times over, we can assume that isn't the intent because this doesn't operate as an addition to another class/archetype the way Time Mage does (and further because it would simply not work at all if you wanted to append stuff to a prepared casting class/archetype)
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Feb 7, 2023 07:02
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Iron Heart posted:So I'm a book-learner who abhors SRD sites. I just picked up the third tier of the Humble Bundle package for Pathfinder 2e. I have limited space on my phone and some of these titles are less than indicative. Which books are worth reading through before I consider joining a game? (I have a background of ten years in tabletop spaces, so I'm not asking for anyone to read the book to me, just explain which useful things outside core are found where.) As people have said, start with the core book. It's big but it's a pretty straightforward read. If you're looking at playing rather than GMing, you don't necessarily have to bother with the gamemastery guide although there's some good stuff in there. If you want a good into to what your first few sessions will feel like, the various materials in the beginner box are good. After that the rest of it is going to be fun stuff for putting together a character or a world.
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Feb 7, 2023 11:10
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I'm so hyped to DM this system but my 5E campaign just keeps going and after six years of it I don't have the heart to instantly TPK all of my PCs so we can move on. Hopefully by around May...
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Feb 7, 2023 13:54
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Xalidur posted:I'm so hyped to DM this system but my 5E campaign just keeps going and after six years of it I don't have the heart to instantly TPK all of my PCs so we can move on. Hopefully by around May... Magical portal sucks them all into golarian. (with the players consent, of course)
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Feb 7, 2023 14:12
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Jen X posted:it's badly edited because it's very clearly intended to operate like any of the non-captivator spellcasting archetypes, but thanks to lacking the text that lets you actually gain slots (either directly, by referring to granting slots, or indirectly, by referring to the specific wording of gaining basic/expert/master spellcasting benefits), does not do that The slots come from "spellcasting archetype" https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=170 The feat doesn't have to say so. That's the beauty and terror of minimalist rule design. quote:Some archetypes grant you spellcasting abilities, albeit delayed compared to a character from a spellcasting class. In this book, the spellcasting archetypes are bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard, but future books might introduce spellcasting archetypes that aren't multiclass archetypes. A spellcasting archetype allows you to use scrolls, staves, and wands in the same way that a member of a spellcasting class can, and the basic spellcasting feat counts as having a spellcasting class feature. So the basic spellcasting feat excludes the information above, because it is redundant. quote:The stars move, granting you a sliver of their magic. Choose a 1st-level spell from any spell list to add to your spell repertoire. You can Cast this Spell as an occult Oatia skysage spell. Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 14:47
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