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What is the most powerful flying bug? This poll is closed. |
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|---|---|---|---|
| 🦋 |
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15 | 3.71% |
| 🦇 |
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115 | 28.47% |
| 🪰 |
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12 | 2.97% |
| 🐦 |
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67 | 16.58% |
| dragonfly |
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94 | 23.27% |
| 🦟 |
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14 | 3.47% |
| 🐝 |
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87 | 21.53% |
| Total: | 404 votes | ||
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I mean they're a great power in that they can actually go to war. Not very well but they're doing it. Any EU nation would have run out of bombs in the first two weeks and wouldn't have the stomach for casualties. The list of nations that can actually sustain a peer war for any amount of time, on their own, is very small and none of NATO outside the US and Turkey.
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Feb 8, 2023 14:27
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not running out of bombs isn't a accomplishment
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Feb 8, 2023 14:28
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Turkey would be knocked out about as brutally as the Ottomans if they tried a high-intensity conflict.
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Feb 8, 2023 14:30
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mila kunis posted:not running out of bombs isn't a accomplishment it's not?
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Feb 8, 2023 14:32
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mila kunis posted:not running out of bombs isn't a accomplishment I disagree
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Feb 8, 2023 14:33
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it seems it'd be pretty important in a war?
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Feb 8, 2023 14:33
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Regarde Aduck posted:it seems it'd be pretty important in a war? depends on whether they're being used for anything useful? when the war first started my immediate thought was that 150k or whatever looked like a completely unrealistic number of troops with which to defeat a militarized country the size of ukraine and now they're kind of stuck. what's the current strategy? keep grinding down tiny towns and villages a few hundred metres a month and hope that ukraine will suddenly topple over?
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Feb 8, 2023 14:36
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oh gosh you're pretty late to be doing this thread went through this stage in like September answer: yeah that's exactly what they're going to do, both sides are going to grind each other to dust. It's horrible. It's war. And when the dust settles, whatever the outcome, the west is gonna try the same thing with China.
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Feb 8, 2023 14:40
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mila kunis posted:depends on whether they're being used for anything useful? the present strategy seems to be adding up the pressure to prevent the ukrainians from regrouping and resuming an effective offensive, presumably until the ukrainian state collapses. there have been increasingly persistent rumors that the russians are planning a more serious mobile offensive shortly, but who knows about those - any achievable objectives would presumably not amount to directly knocking ukraine out of the war, but could result in another sieverodonetsk-style quasi-encirclement where the ukrainians lose a few thousand increasingly precious high-quality troops. in the longer term, russia seems to have more of a capacity to keep this thing going than ukraine has, being largely self-sufficient and in the process of increasing its relationships with powers who don't really have that much of a problem with what they're up to in ukraine as opposed to being at the complete mercy of foreign sponsors for both arms and cash transfers it's not pretty and i doubt that it's what the russians were hoping for when they launched this invasion, but it's very dangerous to assume that it's a hopeless strategy.
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Feb 8, 2023 14:41
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gotta say that its a proper galaxy brain take that you don't actually need weapons to fight a war
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Feb 8, 2023 14:43
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V. Illych L. posted:the present strategy seems to be adding up the pressure to prevent the ukrainians from regrouping and resuming an effective offensive, presumably until the ukrainian state collapses. there have been increasingly persistent rumors that the russians are planning a more serious mobile offensive shortly, but who knows about those - any achievable objectives would presumably not amount to directly knocking ukraine out of the war, but could result in another sieverodonetsk-style quasi-encirclement where the ukrainians lose a few thousand increasingly precious high-quality troops. in the longer term, russia seems to have more of a capacity to keep this thing going than ukraine has, being largely self-sufficient and in the process of increasing its relationships with powers who don't really have that much of a problem with what they're up to in ukraine as opposed to being at the complete mercy of foreign sponsors for both arms and cash transfers if vietnam didn't crumble and run out of manpower against a far more brutal and murderous invader, why would ukraine?
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Feb 8, 2023 14:45
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Particularly when operations are attritional and firepower focussed and have been for months.
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Feb 8, 2023 14:46
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though i guess it would be p consistent with the recent lib ideological shift towards people who were political during ww2 to start arguing that ukraine is gonna win this thing by pure willpower
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Feb 8, 2023 14:46
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mila kunis posted:if vietnam didn't crumble and run out of manpower against a far more brutal and murderous invader, why would ukraine? to hazard a guess i think it's because vietnam didn't fight a war where they just stood around in fixed positions and let the americans blow them to hell
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Feb 8, 2023 14:51
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mila kunis posted:if vietnam didn't crumble and run out of manpower against a far more brutal and murderous invader, why would ukraine? i think ff and gradenko have posted about this comparison multiple times when people bring it up but even without their help you should be able to come up with a few reasons why the situations are not comparable
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Feb 8, 2023 14:51
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Vietnam and Ukraine are very similar with respect to geography and topography so they may be right
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Feb 8, 2023 14:53
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Cuttlefush posted:i think ff and gradenko have posted about this comparison multiple times when people bring it up but even without their help you should be able to come up with a few reasons why the situations are not comparable the situations are certainly different, in that the ukrainians are in a far better position than the vietnamese (who still won) ?
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Feb 8, 2023 14:54
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yeah i guess if you assume a whole bunch of ludicrous poo poo you might get to that conclusion
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Feb 8, 2023 14:55
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are you saying Russia is the anti colonist and popular army in this metaphor I mean. ok ?
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Feb 8, 2023 14:55
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you ever seen a globe
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Feb 8, 2023 14:56
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euphronius posted:are you saying Russia is the anti colonist and popular army in this metaphor ???
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Feb 8, 2023 14:56
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mila kunis posted:if vietnam didn't crumble and run out of manpower against a far more brutal and murderous invader, why would ukraine? i don't think that maidan-era ukraine and fifties-seventies-era vietnam are much comparable in terms of political-economical structures the vietnam war was a combination of protracted people's war and formal military conflict supported by a total war economy in extremely difficult terrain. the ukrainians are pledging their allegiance to free markets and the international financial system. the political order to which it (or at least the best elements of it) aspires is not one really designed to fight a protracted war with the severe financial difficulties that imposes. so we find schemes for extensive privatisations and deregulations making their way through the wartime ukrainian political system; the only really appealing mass project they've got is a rather weird ultranationalism which itself is deeply offputting to at least a plurality of actual ukrainians and which is clearly politically incompatible with the best material hopes they have (EU integration, effectively). the Communist promises of popular government, dignity for the peasants and an end to colonial exploitation seem rather more tangible and realistic. at the moment there's no people's war component to ukrainian strategy, and the revolutionary project doesn't seem to have especially fervent mass support among the ukrainian population; the maidan project is a project of geopolitical alignment towards the greater West, but what can be gained from this alignment is very much in the air. right now, ukraine has to attack an enemy with superior firepower, using almost entirely symmetrical tactics - their own war goals demand this very costly behaviour. It is entirely possible in my mind that russia wins in the conventional phase of the war, but fails to secure a stable peace and ends up effectively withdrawing after a protracted unconventional war; their present strategy gives no hints as to how this would play out and seems clearly limited to conventional military victory. writing this off as a possibility is not, imo, reasonable; there are too many ways one can imagine this taking place (reduction of the ukrainian army until it's no longer able to keep the front open, the war economy collapsing, a political crisis making it hard for the sponsors to keep fully backing ukraine, etc).
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Feb 8, 2023 14:59
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who was invading who in the vietnam war ?
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Feb 8, 2023 14:59
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mila kunis posted:if vietnam didn't crumble and run out of manpower against a far more brutal and murderous invader, why would ukraine? Ukraine is not communist
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Feb 8, 2023 15:00
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ukrainian special forces will advance on russian positions under the cover of the thick donbass jungles
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Feb 8, 2023 15:01
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by the way, just as a heads-up this whole kramering into the thread and stridently asserting things that are the opposite of reality gimmick got kinda old like ten months ago or so
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Feb 8, 2023 15:02
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to russia, ukraine is just a colonial adventure far removed from their core. an alien culture in a faraway land. neither the government nor the people of russia will have the will to fight a war for more than... wait how long was the US in vietnam again?
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Feb 8, 2023 15:03
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euphronius posted:this will be printed by the New York Times The funniest part is a mature, rational person clearly understands that blame doesn't work that way. "Look what you made me do" is not acceptable at six years old let alone as a justification of war crimes by a failed state such as Ukraine. We just saw what is close to the final form of this with plate tectonics understanders blaming the recent earthquakes on Russia's campaign, and none of the other ukrainiacs disavowed it. There's an inherent willingness to accommodate whatever friendly lies serve the narrative, but to their credit, it does prevent a lot of people from buying in for real. There are reasons why the true believers are so bloodthirsty and the deep state "oldheads" are publicly coming around to the conflict being functionally unwinnable for the west (I emphasize publicly because at least privately, they always knew).
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Feb 8, 2023 15:16
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https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1623315860751372289?s=20
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Feb 8, 2023 15:23
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The ussr provided vietnam with thousands of tanks, jets, bombers, and aa guns, as well as sam batteries and over 10k specialists to operate and maintain equipment in an area that's historically unconquerable jungle/mountain environment but that's probably equivalent to the us giving a bunch of rocket launchers to nazis in a mud pit
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Feb 8, 2023 15:27
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Feb 8, 2023 15:30
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https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/s...ingawful.com%2F
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Feb 8, 2023 15:31
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russia's doing so well in the war it's destroying european industry and economy as a side effect. though to be fair, the EU deserves some credit for that
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Feb 8, 2023 15:31
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Homeless Friend posted:what da gently caress is blood 🩸 cancer medical term for "ate some polonium"
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Feb 8, 2023 15:31
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Feb 8, 2023 15:32
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that'll be completely ignored now because Hersh is an "assadist" or whatever
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Feb 8, 2023 15:33
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I am pretty sure shells hitting dirt made Gaia sad, is it just a stretch? Also, the closest example is probably the Eastern Front during the First World War, with the the Russians switched to the Germans and there is no Western front. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 15:36 on Feb 8, 2023 |
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Feb 8, 2023 15:34
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Hatebag posted:The ussr provided vietnam with thousands of tanks, jets, bombers, and aa guns, as well as sam batteries and over 10k specialists to operate and maintain equipment in an area that's historically unconquerable jungle/mountain environment but that's probably equivalent to the us giving a bunch of rocket launchers to nazis in a mud pit the war didn't start in 2022. the ukrainian military has been built up in the 8 years preceding with training and supplies probably superior to what the ussr gave to north vietnam even if that isn't the case, the mud pit nazis seem to have clawed back a lot of territory and maintained a cohesive state in the face of the invasion. i just don't see how taking a couple of podunk villages a month is going to lead to ukrainian defeat.
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Feb 8, 2023 15:35
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mila kunis posted:the war didn't start in 2022. the ukrainian military has been built up in the 8 years preceding with training and supplies probably superior to what the ussr gave to north vietnam ya that got wiped out in march or something. now they're on a hodge podge of leftover nato garbage that they don't have the training to use or the ability to repair when it breaks
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Feb 8, 2023 15:37
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| # ? Jun 7, 2024 18:07 |
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mila kunis posted:the war didn't start in 2022. the ukrainian military has been built up in the 8 years preceding with training and supplies probably superior to what the ussr gave to north vietnam Eh, I would hope their equipment would be better than stuff from the mid-1960s but it has been a bit iffy. Btw, losing some random villages isn’t what is hurting Ukraine but the huge loss of trained men and material that is being used to defend them. That is what is changing the momentum of the war along with Russian reinforcements.
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Feb 8, 2023 15:37
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