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Toledo has Tony Packos. the pickles are good. other than that it seemed like it had crushing depression.
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Feb 8, 2023 00:13
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My wife got a Tony Packo's shirt there and wore it for six years until it fell apart
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Feb 8, 2023 00:20
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MickeyFinn posted:Have you considered how great this situation makes current homeowners who purchased a long time ago feel, though? When they get old and their children, who live 2+ hours away, can't take care of them and they live in their own filth due to in-home care being way too expensive, because the workers are paying way too much for rent, you can bet they are going to come for your paycheck to keep their quality of life high. feel free to go into more detail about their suffering because that makes me feel good
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Feb 8, 2023 00:42
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MickeyFinn posted:Have you considered how great this situation makes current homeowners who purchased a long time ago feel, though? When they get old and their children, who live 2+ hours away, can't take care of them and they live in their own filth due to in-home care being way too expensive, because the workers are paying way too much for rent, you can bet they are going to come for your paycheck to keep their quality of life high. I'm mixed about this, the olds who can't afford in-home care and who's kids can't afford to live nearby aren't really members of the owning class despite owning a house and probably have a lot less responsibility for the state of things than the real capitalists who will never feel any negative effects from housing unaffordability. I guess the real problem is that every level of society is a pyramid scam (including healthcare during retirement always requiring a larger number of workers to pay for it) so as always you can trace the root cause back to capitalism, specifically the requirement for endless growth and expansion in an inherently limited system.
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Feb 8, 2023 06:45
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Failson posted:Goon project: buy a block from the Detroit Land Bank. willing to offer up my unheated uninsulated and unfurnished landbank house as a place to stay for any goon in need all you gotta do is dispose of the frozen corpse of the last guy
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Feb 8, 2023 13:59
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we didnt get the house
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Feb 8, 2023 14:48
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bitmap posted:we didnt get the house Probably my least favorite post / avatar combo in some time. Sorry goon, that sucks rear end.
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Feb 8, 2023 15:00
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External Organs posted:Probably my least favorite post / avatar combo in some time. Sorry goon, that sucks rear end. ah, what can ya do (against cash buying boomers)
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Feb 8, 2023 16:13
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Blackhawk posted:I'm mixed about this, the olds who can't afford in-home care and who's kids can't afford to live nearby aren't really members of the owning class despite owning a house and probably have a lot less responsibility for the state of things than the real capitalists who will never feel any negative effects from housing unaffordability. I guess the real problem is that every level of society is a pyramid scam (including healthcare during retirement always requiring a larger number of workers to pay for it) so as always you can trace the root cause back to capitalism, specifically the requirement for endless growth and expansion in an inherently limited system. On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other, at least here in California, these homeowners are literally blocking the construction of more housing because they are afraid it will reduce the value of their homes or change the character of their neighborhoods. They have also constitutionally mandated that taxes to pay for the infrastructure they use does not come from increasing their property taxes. I can't muster a lot of sympathy for them as a group even though I'm sure there are people in there that I would define as more victim than perpetrator.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:37
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MickeyFinn posted:I can't muster a lot of sympathy for them as a group even though I'm sure there are people in there that I would define as more victim than perpetrator. That's by design. Every time a move to repeal Pro 13 rolls around, the rich trot out some grandma who bought a house in Newport Beach or somewhere in 1973 for $80 and couldn't pay the property tax on her now $10 million dollar property if she had to pay at current rates. Ignore all of the inherited rental properties, airbnbs, and comercial real estate - just concentrate on poor grandma, cast out onto the cold cold street with nothing but her meager belongings and the $10 million she got from selling her old house to make her way through her golden years.
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Feb 8, 2023 17:11
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Weembles posted:That's by design. It really broke things horribly to divorce property taxes from property values and I don’t exactly know what the fix is, because any repeal or even reasonable reform is going to push an awful lot of people out of their homes and while there’s I guess the possibility the glut could bring values back down to earth and allow a new generation to gain access something tells me the institutional investors would probably be the primary beneficiaries
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Feb 8, 2023 17:22
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Surely you could design a grandfather clause that would protect lower-income homeowners who couldn't afford higher taxes. I doubt the opposition to higher taxes would humor the idea though.
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Feb 8, 2023 17:42
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Fixing the overpriced housing market likely requires a massive buildout of public housing to reduce demand. Not only is that unlikely to happen in the US, but existing public housing options are being chronically underfunded and instead privatization appears more likely. The NYT's recent article about NYC's public housing problems shows what this process looks like in practice:quote:As Thousands Fall Behind on Rent, Public Housing Faces ‘Disaster’ Way more public housing is also how to address homelessness but instead the solution will just be more shelters. The good news is the shelters are really nice, even the mayor is staying in them. 
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Feb 8, 2023 17:59
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Weembles posted:That's by design. In Canada you can defer property taxes on your home after 55 and gets settled up when you sell or from the estate. Little old Grandma shouldn't be getting evicted.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:03
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Crow Buddy posted:In Canada you can defer property taxes on your home after 55 and gets settled up when you sell or from the estate. That's kind of crazy, it's very common for houses to cost 10k a year in ptax, if not more in some of the bluer area like illinois and jersey. So you could just defer something 300k, maybe even a million, maybe more if you live past 85?
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Feb 8, 2023 19:12
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Seems like that essentially destroys the whole concept of passing your house down to your kids for anyone who isn't exceedingly wealthy.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:13
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mastershakeman posted:That's kind of crazy, it's very common for houses to cost 10k a year in ptax, if not more in some of the bluer area like illinois and jersey. So you could just defer something 300k, maybe even a million, maybe more if you live past 85? That seems fine in that hypothetical of her living in a 10 million dollar home.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:15
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Paradoxish posted:Seems like that essentially destroys the whole concept of passing your house down to your kids for anyone who isn't exceedingly wealthy. you could simply give them the million in unpaid property taxes instead so they could buy a tiny condo somewhere else
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Feb 8, 2023 19:16
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mastershakeman posted:you could simply give them the million in unpaid property taxes instead so they could buy a tiny condo somewhere else I just assume that old people (especially old people who need to defer their property taxes) will get fleeced out of all their liquid assets before they die, but maybe Canada isn't quite so brutal.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:18
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your parents dying in their early 70s is probably the best way to get anything, assuming they don’t have 2 more mortgages on the house
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Feb 8, 2023 19:18
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The state already takes old peoples' houses to pay for nursing home stay s
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Feb 8, 2023 19:20
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Not just for longterm care; a ton of states have medicaid clawbacks for anyone 55 & older, including liberal, blue-voting states like california.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:21
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Medicare does not cover long term care in facilities, usually people in need of that are dual eligible Medicaid/Medicare and the Medicaid covers it. And many states will take everything you've got to pay for it.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:22
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My wife's grandmother is turning 99 this year and still living independently in her own home, even if she dies from a fall or whatever at this point she's basically lived the best case scenario in America for growing old.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:23
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yeah my father in law died at home and I though that was great.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:31
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MickeyFinn posted:Have you considered how great this situation makes current homeowners who purchased a long time ago feel, though? When they get old and their children, who live 2+ hours away, can't take care of them and they live in their own filth due to in-home care being way too expensive, because the workers are paying way too much for rent, you can bet they are going to come for your paycheck to keep their quality of life high. Leopards ate my face too? Noooooo
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Feb 8, 2023 19:41
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Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud posted:Medicare does not cover long term care in facilities, usually people in need of that are dual eligible Medicaid/Medicare and the Medicaid covers it. And many states will take everything you've got to pay for it. What I was pointing out is that if you're a 60-yr-old on expanded medicaid in california & die of cancer the state can (and will) seize your estate as repayment for the medical services you received.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:42
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For real though it's going to be funny when people look for the real-world data on ~~GREATEST TRANSFER OF WEALTH IN AMERICAN HISTORY~!@ and find that it wasn't transferred to millennials and was all slurped up by healthcare and nursing companies vampirizing the dying boomers like parasites on the belly of an ancient whale instead
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Feb 8, 2023 19:43
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What's the argument to be made for property taxes at all on your primary residence? Obviously the government needs to raise tax revenue to pay for things, but that seems like it would be more fairly derived from income, capital gains and corporate tax? And obviously you want to discourage people buying a ton of houses and just squatting on them, but I don't see how you couldn't completely waive taxes on the property that you live in? Seems weird to tax people basically just for existing, at least income tax is only applied if you actually earn money, property tax is like a constant money syphon for as long as you're alive which as pointed out is problematic when you get old and can't work anymore.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:46
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Blackhawk posted:What's the argument to be made for property taxes at all on your primary residence? Obviously the government needs to raise tax revenue to pay for things, but that seems like it would be more fairly derived from income, capital gains and corporate tax? And obviously you want to discourage people buying a ton of houses and just squatting on them, but I don't see how you couldn't completely waive taxes on the property that you live in? If you don't tax real property because you can box-check it as a primary residence, and you've already commodified real property and subsidized its continual appreciation as an asset, and you've simultaneously financialized it so that you can (for example) easily cash out of it as needed, then you've just created an even further incentive to build price growth and asset appreciation on housing. The real question is, what's the argument for housing being a commodity good at all
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Feb 8, 2023 19:50
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Blackhawk posted:What's the argument to be made for property taxes at all on your primary residence? Obviously the government needs to raise tax revenue to pay for things, but that seems like it would be more fairly derived from income, capital gains and corporate tax? And obviously you want to discourage people buying a ton of houses and just squatting on them, but I don't see how you couldn't completely waive taxes on the property that you live in? Education is almost exclusively funded by property taxes in the vast majority of the country. Changing that system would require a herculean effort to organize the vast patchwork of federal, state, and local tax authorities in a way that I don't think we're capable of anymore. Also that system is the primary way our society enforces the racial caste system, so lol
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Feb 8, 2023 19:51
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Also, income taxes are literally unconstitutional where I live.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:52
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Blackhawk posted:What's the argument to be made for property taxes at all on your primary residence? Obviously the government needs to raise tax revenue to pay for things, but that seems like it would be more fairly derived from income, capital gains and corporate tax? And obviously you want to discourage people buying a ton of houses and just squatting on them, but I don't see how you couldn't completely waive taxes on the property that you live in? property tax is a wealth tax and wealth taxes own strip that away and people will plow their wealth into their residence. rich people would bring back castles, just monumental wastes of money and effort an exemption with a standard deduction of like 100k or w/e is the way to go. most (all?) states have homestead exemptions which vary but rich people still massively benefit
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Feb 8, 2023 19:53
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Yeah we'd see like large rich families where each of the husband, wife, three cousins, brother in law, and kids have each designated a ten thousand acre farming estate as their "primary residence" and then built the pool house out of solid palladium
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Feb 8, 2023 19:55
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Blackhawk posted:What's the argument to be made for property taxes at all on your primary residence? Obviously the government needs to raise tax revenue to pay for things, but that seems like it would be more fairly derived from income, capital gains and corporate tax? And obviously you want to discourage people buying a ton of houses and just squatting on them, but I don't see how you couldn't completely waive taxes on the property that you live in? property tax is popular in a lot of places because it can't be avoided. the property exists and isn't going to be leaving the jurisdiction
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Feb 8, 2023 19:55
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Renters have to pay just for existing, why should home owners get a pass?
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Feb 8, 2023 19:56
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property taxes rule, but they should be massively more progressive. i like graduated sqft tax rates
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Feb 8, 2023 19:56
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MickeyFinn posted:On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other, at least here in California, these homeowners are literally blocking the construction of more housing because they are afraid it will reduce the value of their homes or change the character of their neighborhoods. They have also constitutionally mandated that taxes to pay for the infrastructure they use does not come from increasing their property taxes. I can't muster a lot of sympathy for them as a group even though I'm sure there are people in there that I would define as more victim than perpetrator. They also think that building denser housing will cause more traffic in their cities, which appears to be true, since decades of building housing in the sprawling periphery instead has virtually eliminated road congestion in California. .... 
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Feb 8, 2023 19:57
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The Oldest Man posted:Yeah we'd see like large rich families where each of the husband, wife, three cousins, brother in law, and kids have each designated a ten thousand acre farming estate as their "primary residence" and then built the pool house out of solid palladium if we're talking about a homestead exemption for property taxes, well those already exist in lots of places and they'll do things like only have it count for the first $X of property value or whatever
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Feb 8, 2023 20:00
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It is also one of the few ways to recoup money from the very uneven public investment in infrastructure. Rich neighborhood has huge park with fancy amenities, poor neighborhood has a playground where you need a tetanus shot to spend more than 5 minutes in, the only part of the entire system that tries to counteract that even a little bit are property taxes.
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Feb 8, 2023 20:01
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