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Looks like MyDigitalDiscount / MyDigitalSSD has gone under.. their website only points to an email address and most of their products now show as 'currently unavailable' on Amazon. Their SSD enclosures were top notch and they gave good tech support for them.. kinda thought something was up when they suddenly started selling pandemic products (sanitizer, masks)
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Feb 10, 2023 16:58
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Potato Salad posted:Samsung is the same megacorp that lost their phone platform keys because, rather than putting that poo poo in a lockdown HSM like you might expect an enormous mega corporation with unlimited resources to do, they just had it lying around on random systems. I've personally avoided Samsung SSDs just from the tech news about them I've picked up over the years. Needing to apply firmware updates to resolve bugs, address performance issues, poo poo like that - it was more than enough for me to not consider getting them even if they were priced the same as other drives.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:36
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repiv posted:https://www.pugetsystems.com/support/guides/critical-samsung-ssd-firmware-update/ Just want to say thanks for this since guess what firmware was on the 980 Pro I bought for my PS5? (And yes would have only a minor annoyance, but prevention is wonderful) Edit: ironically I bought the Samsung partially because it was on sale and partially because they’re supposed to be so safe. Ugh. It’s literally a faster hard drive than either of the Intel and Samsung SSD’s in my laptop (2 bays for the win), the Sandisc ssd in my parents desktop, WD ssd in my PS4, or the ssd in my dads laptop (all are either NVM 3 or SATA). But yeah hey oops. The supposed best isn’t rock solid one (yes I know nothings perfect, backs massively important, etc) LaptopGun fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 03:43
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I've personally avoided Samsung SSDs just from the tech news about them I've picked up over the years. Needing to apply firmware updates to resolve bugs, address performance issues, poo poo like that - it was more than enough for me to not consider getting them even if they were priced the same as other drives. I would consider it worse sign if there are no firmware updates. At least the updates show that the manufacturer is willing to support their product. SSDs seem such a complex devices that I may still not trust manufacturers to get them right at first try. It doesn't happen even with expensive enterprise SSDs. We use a lot of HPE Proliant servers at work and I keep track of the firmware updates. Several SSD models had updates to fix a silly issue where they would die when they reach a lifetime of 32768 hours. Our VMware VDI got hit by an issue where the drive would die after you upgrade to VMware 7.0 unless you update the firmware. They didn't initially notice the requirement and then they had a drive die and found out about the update. I guess they didn't quite believe and assumed the death was more of a coincidense. And soon after another drive died and they realized all the drives must be updated immediately. That is such an incomprehensible issue for me. "If you upgrade your operating system, your SSD that has been working flawlessly for years will die within weeks."
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Feb 12, 2023 15:57
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Saukkis posted:I would consider it worse sign if there are no firmware updates. At least the updates show that the manufacturer is willing to support their product. SSDs seem such a complex devices that I may still not trust manufacturers to get them right at first try. It doesn't happen even with expensive enterprise SSDs. We use a lot of HPE Proliant servers at work and I keep track of the firmware updates. Several SSD models had updates to fix a silly issue where they would die when they reach a lifetime of 32768 hours. I honestly don't get this, at least when it comes to consumer devices. If it is a concern then why do my SSDs from other manufacturers keep chugging away happily and, as far as I can tell, performantly without any need for direct intervention on my part? I haven't done a complete census but I know I have drives knocking around that are at least 10 years old and they seem fine.
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Feb 12, 2023 22:11
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I honestly don't get this, at least when it comes to consumer devices. If it is a concern then why do my SSDs from other manufacturers keep chugging away happily and, as far as I can tell, performantly without any need for direct intervention on my part? I haven't done a complete census but I know I have drives knocking around that are at least 10 years old and they seem fine. If you had a 980 Pro, the most likely thing is that it would also be chugging along with your other drives. And if you lived under a rock and never updated the firmware, most likely it would continue to do so. The problem does not kill every drive. This firmware update came because Puget -- a decent-sized OEM that uses almost exclusively 980 Pros and has a real customer service department -- noticed it. If Puget saw it and nobody else did, it's probably pretty dang rare. I have an OCZ drive that still works fine, from a company and model series that was famous for dying. "My other SSDs haven't had problems" is really weak data. Basically, SSDs are complex enough to have problems in firmware, it is what it is. IMO Samsung having trouble right now isn't a reason to strictly avoid them -- in a few years it could be someone else. Samsung is also pretty much the only company that hasn't pulled post-release component switcharoos that hurt performance. (OTOH they also charge a pretty hefty premium for their SSDs, which I've generally felt wasn't justified.)
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Feb 13, 2023 15:21
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I do not qualify a user who "doesn't upgrade device firmware" as "living under a rock." That's "regular user" territory. I am glad that Puget was able to detect this at their scale, because it seems this may have otherwise gone under the radar and left goons with an increased risk of device failure within service life. I'm glad there's fellow storage engineers here and I agree this would be worse if there were no patches available. Samsung devices are still fine for enterprise devices and prosumers who, as I clarified here and in the OP, stay up to date on tech hardware news and have the time/skill to manage device firmware. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Feb 13, 2023 15:30
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CaptainSarcastic posted:I honestly don't get this, at least when it comes to consumer devices. If it is a concern then why do my SSDs from other manufacturers keep chugging away happily and, as far as I can tell, performantly without any need for direct intervention on my part? I haven't done a complete census but I know I have drives knocking around that are at least 10 years old and they seem fine. Not to defend Samsung as if they are paragons of correctness, but most of their updates have been to fix either edge cases, or non-standard consumer use cases. For instance, the 32768 hour bug wouldn't pop up for a consumer unless they left it running 24/7 for close to 4 years. At 8hr/day, it'd take over 11 years to hit that. So really that fix was targeted at people using consumer drives for enterprise workloads. The vast majority of Samsung SSDs being used by Normal People would have been fine without ever having an update applied. That said, it's been a while since I've personally bought Samsung simply because other companies have competing products that are similarly speedy for my purposes and notably cheaper. But I wouldn't avoid Samsung over any of this. I mean, it's worth remembering that it's entirely possible (probable, even) that other drives by other companies out there are just as bad if not worse, but because there aren't large(ish) OEMs slapping thousands of them into pre-builts every month, the defect reports never get collected up into a large enough mass to get any attention from the SSD manufacturer. DrDork fucked around with this message at 15:35 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Feb 13, 2023 15:32
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Crucial and  WD Blue operate in extremely significant quantities in business class laptop fleets that I'm familiar with in a first or second person context, and if they failed at a rate of a few % during service lifetime, I'd know.I agree that other brands could totally be just as bad, maybe, but that's not a reason to direct buyers to a known bad.
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Feb 13, 2023 15:41
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I had a rash of WD blues die within days of unboxing and so I don't use them anymore. Bummer, they used to be solid.
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Feb 13, 2023 15:49
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fucken a
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Feb 13, 2023 15:55
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Potato Salad posted:fucken a Yeaaaaah. I mean, this is basically the same story as was had with HDDs back in the day: virtually every major manufacturer had borked at least one model to the point that people would rant "never buy X!" where, aggregated over all the people ranting, X ended up being an almost complete set of HDD OEMs. To that end, though, you're right that if we're pointing people to known problematic versions, we should at least also be noting that you may need to update the firmware as one of the first things you do. But given that doing so takes like 10 minutes and it seems (so far) to have completely resolved the issue... 
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Feb 13, 2023 16:13
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Potato Salad posted:I do not qualify "Doesn't upgrade device firmware" as "living under a rock." That's "regular user" territory. To calibrate, where do you put driver updates? To me, firmware updates fall into the same category as drivers, BIOS, and stuff like that. Enthusiasts and professionals* should know about it and keep on top of it. Regular users don't, but regular users also don't need a 980 Pro. A regular user is fine with a MX500 or WD blue that's been around for 5 years and has a great track record. If you want to live on the bleeding edge, you should know how to use a bandage. *where "professionals" IMO includes people who are not IT but their work requires high-end performance PCs. Potato Salad posted:Crucial and We don't know what the failure rate was. Puget says: "Despite historically being some of our most reliable parts, we have received a surprising number of reports of failing Samsung drives, specifically with the 2TB version of the 980 Pro." That sounds to me like it was less than a few % overall rate, and more like a cluster that they looked into. Apparently the problem produces a particular error code reliably before the failure occurs. So there's a diagnostic symptom to help identify a pattern even at low overall rate. Potato Salad posted:fucken a I'm not sure there's a device that redeyes hasn't had troubles and failures with
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Feb 13, 2023 16:14
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The only time I stopped using a company's products for a long time was when a Seagate HDD was locking up Windows and applications for several seconds and I couldn't figure out what was wrong because checkdisk didn't find anything and the SeaTools were reporting "all clear, warranty does not apply". Someone in SHSC pointed me towards CrystalDiskInfo and noted that the drive was racking up really high raw values for Reallocated Sector Count, the HDD was actually (not so) slowly dying but Seagate had set SMART thresholds that would have allowed for thousands more reallocated sectors before triggering SMART warnings. I didn't even stop using it because it was about to die (I had dead and dying parts before, disks and otherwise), but because that was just grossly negligent or borderline intentional and gently caress them for playing roulette with my data at the time.Klyith posted:I'm not sure there's a device that redeyes hasn't had troubles and failures with 
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Feb 13, 2023 17:56
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I would say that for the majority of PC users, if an update is delivered via Windows Update then it gets applied, if it doesn't then it doesn't.
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Feb 13, 2023 17:57
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I bought the 2TB 980 Pro for my PS5 in July of 2022. I finally pulled it out of the PS5 today to update it. Something that's not easy because apparently don't have anything with more than one m.2 slot, but I finally got it into a machine with a PCI adapter. Magician reported it already had the 5B2QGXA7 firmware and didn't require an update. What in the actual hell? Didn't that firmware just come out to address this?
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Feb 13, 2023 18:35
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Thanks Ants posted:I would say that for the majority of PC users, if an update is delivered via Windows Update then it gets applied, if it doesn't then it doesn't. Yeah, and do I hope that the SSD companies are working to get firmware applied via windows update. BIOS updates can be -- I was surprised as heck the first time I rebooted my laptop for WU and then went into a BIOS update screen. I feel like SSDs should be easier than that, since most of the manufacturer toolkits (samsung magician, etc) can do firmware from inside windows without a reboot. Macichne Leainig posted:Magician reported it already had the 5B2QGXA7 firmware and didn't require an update. The problem was just recently discovered, but it only affects the launch firmware iteration. Apparently Samsung had already fixed it for quite some time, but didn't publicize the update as critical? (Maybe they didn't know, or maybe they didn't want the bad PR and hoped nobody would notice.) quote:In our internal records and testing, we have identified the following versions are not experiencing the failure symptoms: 4B2QGXA7 / 5B2QGXA7
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Feb 13, 2023 19:14
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Macichne Leainig posted:Magician reported it already had the 5B2QGXA7 firmware and didn't require an update. Nah, that firmware came out in Jan 2022. Just didn't really have a lot of attention until recently, given the currently observed issues with the (older) 3B2QGXA7 firmware.
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Feb 13, 2023 19:17
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Klyith posted:Yeah, and do I hope that the SSD companies are working to get firmware applied via windows update. BIOS updates can be -- I was surprised as heck the first time I rebooted my laptop for WU and then went into a BIOS update screen. I feel like SSDs should be easier than that, since most of the manufacturer toolkits (samsung magician, etc) can do firmware from inside windows without a reboot. someone other than me needs to just suck it up and make nvme-cli for windows so you don't even need stupid manufacturer toolkits (or stupid anime crystaldiskmark)
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Feb 13, 2023 19:38
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Klyith posted:Yeah, and do I hope that the SSD companies are working to get firmware applied via windows update. BIOS updates can be -- I was surprised as heck the first time I rebooted my laptop for WU and then went into a BIOS update screen. I feel like SSDs should be easier than that, since most of the manufacturer toolkits (samsung magician, etc) can do firmware from inside windows without a reboot. Maybe I just went to a lot of trouble for the peace of mind then
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Feb 13, 2023 23:09
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So, just as a refresher, is it now ok to use a QLC drive like the Intel 670p as the OS drive? Because I saw the 2TB 670p was just $80 a few days ago.
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Feb 16, 2023 18:53
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Every time I look at Amazon for a 970 Evo Plus, the price for a 2 TB gets lower.. it's at $149.95 now. Wonder if they know anything?
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Feb 16, 2023 19:09
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I picked up a 2tb WD black for like $170? Just buy that.
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Feb 16, 2023 19:22
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Yeah nowadays gen 4 drives, even fast ones, routinely hit $150 or thereabouts
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Feb 16, 2023 19:24
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teagone posted:So, just as a refresher, is it now ok to use a QLC drive like the Intel 670p as the OS drive? Because I saw the 2TB 670p was just $80 a few days ago. For grandma's solitaire rig or the college gaming computers of your horrible triplet nephews Buzz, Buster, and Buck, they are absolutely fine and that price is great. The SLC write cache is 280GB on the 2TB models, a number i highly doubt any regular user is ever gonna hit. If you are the type of turbo-dork who knows of this thread and want something for your personal rig, I would probably steer you to a different Gen4 drive like others are mentioning.
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Feb 16, 2023 19:37
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Cygni posted:For grandma's solitaire rig or the college gaming computers of your horrible triplet nephews Buzz, Buster, and Buck, they are absolutely fine and that price is great. The SLC write cache is 280GB on the 2TB models, a number i highly doubt any regular user is ever gonna hit. Sounds good. I don't really need to upgrade right now, and seems like prices are continually trending downward. I can wait a little longer. Just figured I'd ask since $80 is like "ehh why not" sort of money for a 2TB SSD lol.
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Feb 16, 2023 19:46
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The question for QLC is not grandma PC vs enthusiast PC, it's "how much data do you write?" If the only time you write over 100GB is to install a new game on steam, QLC is probably fine for you. Especially at the big 2TB sizes that have plenty of endurance and a big SLC cache. OTOH the WD SN770 2TB has been $130 recently, and is TLC and mid-range PCIe Gen4 in speed. Assuming WD isn't putting them on sale because they've just done a component switcharoo, that'd be my pick for a good deal.
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Feb 16, 2023 20:16
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Uhhh whats wrong with the 980 Pro? I thought I had a 970 but apparently I do have a 980 Pro
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Feb 17, 2023 01:22
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track day bro! posted:Uhhh whats wrong with the 980 Pro? I thought I had a 970 but apparently I do have a 980 Pro It has a firmware bug that can potentially kill the drive, particularly with 2TB size drives. Get crystaldiskinfo (it's good, ignore the anime) to look at the firmware version of the drive. If it is 3B2QGXA7, install Samsung Magician to update it ASAP. Updating the firmware should be non-destructive to data on the drive.
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Feb 17, 2023 01:34
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Klyith posted:It has a firmware bug that can potentially kill the drive, particularly with 2TB size drives. Mines a 1tb, but I’ll check the firmware version thanks! I really don’t know why I’ve bought so many samsung ssds. I should’ve just stopped with the stuff that happened to the 840, although that disk is still chugging away in an old mac mini. Got an 850 and a 950 which all still seem to work ok too. Mind you, when I tested out my TB3 nvme enclosure the old 950 Pro still got faster read/write speeds than my HP EX950. I thought the HP was going to be the better drive being several years newer but eh.
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Feb 17, 2023 02:15
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Klyith posted:Get crystaldiskinfo (it's good, ignore the anime) You do realize there's a normal version without anime, right? It's not even hidden or anything.
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Feb 17, 2023 06:50
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Any thoughts?
So we've been benchmarking SSDs and HDDs for several months now. With the recent SSD news, I figured it’d might be worthwhile to describe a bit of what we’ve been seeing in testing. TLDR: While benchmarking 8 popular 1TB SSDs we noticed that several showed significant sequential I/O performance degradation. After 2 hours of idle time and a system restart the degradation remained. To help illustrate the issue, we put together animated graphs for the SSDs showing how their sequential write performance changed over successive test runs. We believe the graphs show how different drives and controllers move data between high and low performance regions.  https://www.reddit.com/r/hardware/comments/1146b0s/ssd_sequential_write_slowdowns/
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Feb 17, 2023 06:58
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People not using fio and not using direct i/o for synthetic benchmarks make me sad  Client drives are written to be bursty. Would be more interested to see with an enterprise drive after a full and proper precondition. Also firmware wear leveling and performance management is black box black magic secret sauce Also word is Solidigm is throwing the towel in on floating gate. The last hold out. Wonder if their Korean overlords are cranky about all of it WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 07:47
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WhyteRyce posted:People not using fio and not using direct i/o for synthetic benchmarks make me sad fio is such a beast but getting it set up can be extremely intimidating  At a previous life I had a script all set up to run traffic to NVRAM drives (testing PCIe switch throughput) and the amount of options for metrics you could pull out was insane. I would generate huge html pages full of charts for the marketing and architecture dudes to pore over, and still felt like I was barely scratching its surface.
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Feb 17, 2023 07:50
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A mountain of options…and all for nothing because you forgot to specify an ioengine Also if you think fio is hard to setup try it with spdk you’ll hate your life WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 08:19
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SSD Thread: (it’s good, ignore the anime)
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Feb 17, 2023 10:02
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Geemer posted:You do realize there's a normal version without anime, right? It's not even hidden or anything. Yeah, but anime is very prominent on the page. Someone on the previous page mentioned it and now I can't avoid thinking that people will get linked to crystaldisk and think it isn't the premiere drive info tool.  Rinkles posted:Any thoughts? What you're seeing on those charts is the drive running out of cache. Sequential write throughput on these drives is 100% about the pSLC cache. A drive wipe not resetting the pSLC cache is like, mildly unexpected, but not crazy or a flaw. Presumably if you waited a bit between each run it wouldn't happen. All SSDs have performance degradation as the drives gets filled with data, which can be restored by a drive wipe. So "drive wipe for consistent best benchmark performance" is a thing people tend to think about SSDs. This is just a corner case where it's not true. Nobody cares or needs to care other than benchmarking enthusiasts. pSLC cache is pretty integral to TLC & QLC wear leveling so in that way it's actually not surprising that the cache doesn't get reset by a wipe.
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Feb 17, 2023 14:44
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oh hey just came to this thread to see what the current good SSDs are after my second 2TB 870 failure in three months -  cool cool cool good job samsung
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Feb 17, 2023 18:52
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If you want a SATA replacement, I have purchased a truly disgusting amount of MX500's over the years and have been happy. They tend to be $20 more expensive than the absolute cheapest 2TB drive on the market, but have a DRAM cache and can saturate the SATA interface for reads. If you want to go to M.2 and have a PCIe4 board, the WD SN850X/SN770 are aggressively priced these days and would probably be my pick. I have an SN850 in my personal rig (and lots of other older WD SSDs in various systems) and haven't had any issues.
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Feb 17, 2023 19:16
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I got a SN850x recently because gently caress Samsung (though my old 970 Evo plus is still hanging out as extra nvme storage).
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Feb 17, 2023 21:13
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