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psydude posted:Losing almost an entire battalion each day. Jesus. Of expendable people. Russian leadership DGAF about high losses if they're conscripts and convicts.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:33
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Where has the multi axis large Russian offensive been? I thought they wanted to kick one off before the spring mud comes into play?
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Feb 12, 2023 16:36
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Flikken posted:Where has the multi axis large Russian offensive been? I thought they wanted to kick one off before the spring mud comes into play? This is it. They're attacking on the Eastern and Southern lines in Donetsk. It's not going well.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:40
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Aside from gigantic events like Antietam and D-Day, has there ever been a period where US forces were having sustained losses of a battalion+ per day?  e: I’m assuming something stupid like that happened in the trenches of WWI, but the US was a late entry there and I’m guessing those stories would be mostly British or French.
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Feb 12, 2023 16:54
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Maybe some of the Pacific island campaigns?
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Feb 12, 2023 16:59
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MonkeyLibFront posted:I'd hate to see the Ukrainian side as well, I just can't see them producing great trained replacements for line infantry. Ukraine mobilized at the start and send everyone abroad for training. Russia hasn't really mobilized and sent all their trainers into Ukraine to die in the first 3 months. Ukraine has an extensive training pipeline, Russia has none. The big Russian offensive is making gains because they sent all their experienced units there.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:06
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They're making relatively tiny gains for all those casualties, though.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:09
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Stultus Maximus posted:Of expendable people. Russian leadership DGAF about high losses if they're conscripts and convicts. They don't really have any non expendable people left at this point.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:11
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Icon Of Sin posted:Aside from gigantic events like Antietam and D-Day, has there ever been a period where US forces were having sustained losses of a battalion+ per day? It happened at points in the Korean war. I know some of the hill fights during the static phase of the war, the first battle of Pork Chop Hill specifically, were costing a battalion a day to hold and counterattack over and over, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of the other big ones like Bloody Ridge, Triangle Hill, or Heartbreak Ridge that were known to be particularly vicious fights had similar losses at the height of their battles. That's not including all the insanity during the first year of the war when everyone was going up and down the peninsula and the Chinese offensives and whatnot.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:37
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Icon Of Sin posted:Aside from gigantic events like Antietam and D-Day, has there ever been a period where US forces were having sustained losses of a battalion+ per day? Do surrenders count? 12,000 US troops at Harpers Ferry, about the same in the Philippines. The Tet Offensive was pretty bad too. Siege of Charleston in the Revolutionary War wiped out about 6,000 guys (mostly surrendered), and ended the threat of a large American field army in the southern colonies.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:19
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During WW1 the British would have 1000 casualties a day when there were no battles - just from the day-to-day existance in the trenches. Called it the horrible term 'wastage'.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:23
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Hell, for the month or so of operations to take Iwo Jima, the US losses averaged out to about 1,000 casualties per day, just for Iwo Jima, not counting the whole war.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:23
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Icon Of Sin posted:Aside from gigantic events like Antietam and D-Day, has there ever been a period where US forces were having sustained losses of a battalion+ per day? The final armored thrusts into Germany cost the US pretty dearly, pushing hell for leather 60 miles per day at the end while racing the Soviets cost the third armored division over 40 tanks and crews per day, granted the US was able to sustain those losses but they had something like a 500% attrition rate by the time Berlin fell. They were literally bringing a shitload of green tanks and crews forward each day to lose them the same day, often in their first engagement with enemy troops. orange juche fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 18:27
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All that trouble just to get to the Spear of Destiny before the Russians
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Feb 12, 2023 18:44
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I think Normandy averages out to about a battalion a day.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:50
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Ok, so we've landed on "most iconic and culturally defining battles of American history" as an equivalent for what's happening right now in Putin's Special Military Operation.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:01
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So the TL:DR for these casualties are ”no, they arent a historical anomaly; But theyre near-peer warfare numbers in a world that got used to 30 years of expeditionary wars against non-governmental factions” with the asterisk that the historical wars where belligerents spent this kind of manpower were also fought by industrialized nations that had mobilized for existential conflict.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:05
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Or some of the worst individual days of Vietnam for US forces.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:10
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Making Soviet invasion of Afghanistan look like a cakewalk. What an achievement.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:16
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psydude posted:Ok, so we've landed on "most iconic and culturally defining battles of American history" as an equivalent for what's happening right now in Putin's Special Military Operation. Pretty much the only battles that have measured up to these casualty levels are found in the world wars, the Korean war, Vietnam war, or the US Civil War.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:42
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Alternately, (picking reasonable ballpark figures given the estimates vary so wildly), if we take 10m military deaths for the USSR in WW2 over 4 years then that averages to about 7k dead every single day.
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Feb 12, 2023 20:12
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Alchenar posted:Alternately, (picking reasonable ballpark figures given the estimates vary so wildly), if we take 10m military deaths for the USSR in WW2 over 4 years then that averages to about 7k dead every single day. Woah woah woah. I've been told in this very thread that insinuating that the USSR was perfectly fine with sending their military to their deaths is racist.
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Feb 12, 2023 20:15
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Charlz Guybon posted:It's a meatgrinder In comparison the US Civil War, known for its high casualties, was around 500 per day. Edit: Admittedly over more than 3 years, so on average Russia is still well below that. Murgos fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 20:20
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psydude posted:Woah woah woah. I've been told in this very thread that insinuating that the USSR was perfectly fine with sending their military to their deaths is racist. Russia's war strategy is to be so incredibly bad in the first year of any conflict that their opponent drops their guard. Half the time it works. e:^^ that chart is how you see estimates go from 'about 100k casualties' pre-Christmas to 'close to 200k' now. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 20:21
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I take that back.
A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 20:32
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Wondering when the mix of massive losses for little gain with poorly led/paid troops on foreign soil implodes on a wide scale. I know they have brutal discipline but on this level with conscripts that won’t hold.
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Feb 12, 2023 22:25
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Hyrax Attack! posted:Wondering when the mix of massive losses for little gain with poorly led/paid troops on foreign soil implodes on a wide scale. I know they have brutal discipline but on this level with conscripts that won’t hold. If Russia has displayed anything, it's that there's no limit to the "stick" slider on the stick/carrot spectrum. Apparently you can get whatever you want if you apply an unlimited level of coercion. And if there are negative consequences from this approach, push the "stick" slider even further to make those go away too.
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Feb 13, 2023 00:14
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Carrot is also stick
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Feb 13, 2023 00:18
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psydude posted:Ok, so we've landed on "most iconic and culturally defining battles of American history" as an equivalent for what's happening right now in Putin's Special Military Operation. In fairness, it's hard to argue that this ISN'T ending up an iconic and culturally defining moment for Russia. Just, y'know, maybe not the one they'd prefer.
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Feb 13, 2023 00:47
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psydude posted:Ok, so we've landed on "most iconic and culturally defining battles of American history" as an equivalent for what's happening right now in Putin's Special Military Operation. Most of the time, those battles for the US ended up being "You should see the other guy" moments.
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Feb 13, 2023 01:22
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Icon Of Sin posted:Aside from gigantic events like Antietam and D-Day, has there ever been a period where US forces were having sustained losses of a battalion+ per day? The Overland Campaign May 4 – June 24, 1864 Army of the Potomac suffered fifty five thousand killed and wounded.
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Feb 13, 2023 01:39
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Charlz Guybon posted:The Overland Campaign What did the south lose?
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Feb 13, 2023 01:46
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Crab Dad posted:What did the south lose? A little over half that number. Although their numbers would have skewed more heavily towards killed, it doesn't really matter because your chances of losing a limb were way higher, so an injury in those days was significantly more likely to permanently end your soldiering career. It's also important to remember that Grant's strategy was to force the Confederates to battle, even if the ground wasn't perfect. He wanted to make them bleed because he knew that every loss they suffered was irreplaceable. Also,  vvvvvvv
A.o.D. fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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Feb 13, 2023 01:59
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Crab Dad posted:What did the south lose? The war.
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Feb 13, 2023 02:01
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Crab Dad posted:What did the south lose? e: f; b
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Feb 13, 2023 02:02
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A.o.D. posted:A little over half that number. Although their numbers would have skewed more heavily towards killed, it doesn't really matter because your chances of losing a limb were way higher, so an injury in those days was significantly more likely to permanently end your soldiering career. Yeah, also I think I read that in previous campaigns where the Union took heavy losses while also hurting the South, they’d fall back to Washington and give the South time to regroup. Grant kept pushing while getting replacements and the South couldn’t cope.
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Feb 13, 2023 02:07
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Is there a thread in here for the coming Alien War? https://mobile.twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1624934609707233280
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Feb 13, 2023 02:14
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Charlz Guybon posted:Is there a thread in here for the coming Alien War? https://twitter.com/grahworin/status/1624105789571858438?t=HM3_1XSP15n5fzvjsSzH5A&s=19
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Feb 13, 2023 03:35
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Karma Comedian posted:https://twitter.com/grahworin/status/1624105789571858438?t=HM3_1XSP15n5fzvjsSzH5A&s=19 America just reminding everyone, huh?
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Feb 13, 2023 03:44
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Especially those damned aliens
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Feb 13, 2023 03:49
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