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RichterIX posted:I'm very interested in this grinder just for pourover because I'm over the particle size distribution on my Encore, but I have a hard time believing it will do both espresso and pourover well because I don't understand why they'd cannibalize sales from their own significantly pricier pourover grinder. They must be expecting it to absolutely dominate the low end market of espresso hand grinders and electric filter grinders
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Jan 31, 2023 21:23
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Bleh, I got the Rocky in hopes that it could do espresso better than my generic burr grinder from Amazon forever ago and still do everyday coffee. I might bring that out of retirement and preorder an Opus. I guess not even a Mignon Perfetto would do the trick if I wanted Just One Grinder?
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Jan 31, 2023 22:10
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nwin posted:Got a link to where he’s saying it outperforms the niche? He alludes to the fact - of course he’s not going to name-drop an actual competitors product. You can find his comments on reddit and facebook Obviously it’s better to just wait until reviewers get their hands on units, but it’s an easy to justify for $200. Corb3t fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 01:05
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Wouldn't you know it - it's the beans. The espresso roast I was using is just bitter at finer grinds. I tried with a few of my home roasts at the same grind settings, and while they still had the high flow and underextraction, they weren't nearly as bitter (maybe closer to astringent, now that I think of it). I shoulda known; the espresso roast was a bit on the lighter brown side. It's just that more acidic, I suppose. Good to know it's not the grinder I just got two weeks ago!
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Feb 1, 2023 01:44
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MJP posted:Wouldn't you know it - it's the beans. The espresso roast I was using is just bitter at finer grinds. I tried with a few of my home roasts at the same grind settings, and while they still had the high flow and underextraction, they weren't nearly as bitter (maybe closer to astringent, now that I think of it). I shoulda known; the espresso roast was a bit on the lighter brown side. It's just that more acidic, I suppose. I've been using a Rocky as my grinder for a number of years now and it's been great. The only issue is it's not stepless, but it's easy enough to keep clean otherwise. I do tend to grind at 8-9 for espresso. I only go down to 6-7 if it's a light roast I'm dialing in. Anything under 5 has caused my shots in my Silvia to just not flow at all. Good luck dialing it all the way in.
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Feb 1, 2023 01:54
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BrianBoitano posted:Huh, I don't get that issue at all with Flair + JX-Pro. I'll try some side by side with grind speed as the variable, but so far my numbers are really tight day to day. Out of curiosity, how long do you pre infuse? Are you pulling at 9 bar? 1 bar or so pre infusion for maybe 5 seconds, then pulling in the middle of the gauge so like 7ish bar. Would have variance from like 25 to 35 seconds shot time (18g->36g). If I ground super fast intentionally I could swing the shot time by like 20 seconds.
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Feb 1, 2023 15:57
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I'm sorry that you can see my dumb white rear end in the portafilter reflection and that the camera drifts after I get up to get ready to stop the shot but https://i.imgur.com/nCOFyqB.mp4  Espresso is so good
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Feb 2, 2023 19:09
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That's a good rear end looking shot. Thanks for the porn.
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Feb 3, 2023 02:51
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Im looking for a nice hand grinder for pour overs, mostly at home while baby is sleeping but also for camping, whats the thread favorite? The skerton pro from OP or is there a better one <$200?
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Feb 6, 2023 00:06
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There are way more options now, and I think the skerton is probably a waste of money at this point since there are many better options at similar or not too much higher price points. Just about anything from 1zpresso is good, though you have to navigate their models to find what you actually want, and in some cases (e.g. x-pro) finding a retailer that will actually sell you one. On the cheaper side, kingrinder is like a lower budget and/or knockoff (???) version of 1zpresso, which itself is arguably copying the commandante. From what I've read kingrinder does lose some features like being able to adjust the zero point on the adjustment ring, but it's also substantially cheaper. Even lower than that, I think people have generally liked the timemore c2.
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Feb 6, 2023 01:00
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Lance Hedrick just put out a comparison video of all 1ZPresso hand grinders, IIRC there's a clear winner for pour over, or maybe one winner for clarity and a different for sweetness.
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Feb 6, 2023 02:17
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ZP6 was the pourover one. It's exactly $200. The only other cheaper options probably worth considering from 1zpresso for pourover are the X Pro or Q2, the first of which needs to be imported if you're in the US. I got mine from a canadian shop. While the X can calibrate its external adjustment ring, it can only do so in increments of a couple clicks at a time, where I feel like the K-max can do so within single clicks, but it's ultimately not the biggest of deals.
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Feb 6, 2023 05:04
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JX is great for pourovers, I believe that’s cheaper than K-series and that new one he reviewed, it’s at least sub $200
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Feb 6, 2023 14:46
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amenenema posted:1 bar or so pre infusion for maybe 5 seconds, then pulling in the middle of the gauge so like 7ish bar. Would have variance from like 25 to 35 seconds shot time (18g->36g). If I ground super fast intentionally I could swing the shot time by like 20 seconds. I did my side by side. My normal fast grind on the left, medium speed middle, slow as I could manage on the right.  So for me at least, it's a 4 second swing for reasonable changes in grind speed, and crazy choking for slow as possible grinding.
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Feb 6, 2023 18:35
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Well I did a thing the other day and ordered an espresso machine - went for an Ascaso Dream PID on the recommendation of wirecutter + I just really like the aesthetic of it. I was assuming my current electric burr grinder would be adequate for espresso, but after a bit of research I'm seeing people say that's not true. I replaced my broken Bodum burr grinder after 6 years of service a month or so ago with a Baratza Virtuoso+ assuming that it would be more than enough to meet my coffee grinding needs forever. I started doing some research today about using it as an espresso grinder and have seen many people say it's not adequate due to the fine tuning needed to get a perfect shot of espresso. I've even seen a couple people say you will have to use a pressurized basket to make espresso with grounds from this grinder, since it can't make the fine grind needed to get good pressure. Is this info accurate or just people exaggerating the importance of having a purpose-made espresso grinder? The weirdest thing to me what seeing people say I'd have to use a pressurized portafilter basket with it. I'm sure I'd get *better* results from something purpose-made for espresso grind, but as a complete newbie to pulling espresso shots is this grinder going to put me in a good place to learn my machine and get to where I can make good espresso daily for milk-based drinks and the occasional straight shot?
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Feb 10, 2023 15:12
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You don’t have a grinder suitable for espresso and it won’t get you to a point where you can pull consistent good shots. Milk covers up a lot of flaws but won’t fix this. Grab one of the espresso hand grinders mentioned in this thread to save a buck I think.
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Feb 10, 2023 16:15
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Anyone on the verge of buying an espresso grinder might want to wait for hand-on reviews of the new Fellow Opus coming out on the 21st. The price ($200) makes me skeptical that it will be good, but if it is then its the cheapest good electric grinder by a fair margin.
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Feb 10, 2023 18:16
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sellouts posted:Grab one of the espresso hand grinders mentioned in this thread to save a buck I think. See previous bit about how that adds just another frustration/variable. Despite being cheaper I'd say that hand grinders are a hinderance for someone just getting into the hobby (and therefore needing to control as many variables as possible). Get a Niche Zero (cheapest "universally recommended" espresso grinder of which I'm aware), a Lagom Mini (cheaper, but potentially undersized motor for lots of grinding and also apparently a pretty noisy grinder), or wait for the Fellow Opus reviews as others have said.
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Feb 10, 2023 18:25
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amenenema posted:See previous bit about how that adds just another frustration/variable. Despite being cheaper I'd say that hand grinders are a hinderance for someone just getting into the hobby (and therefore needing to control as many variables as possible). My recommendation was entirely price motivated given the OP went and bought a whole rear end machine and expected a Viruoso+ would get the job done. No offense to them but that’s a pretty obvious lack of research or an extreme need to do things as cheap as possible. Lagom is like $350. Niche more even if used. Also for new folks to espresso everything is a variable / frustration imo. Yes, consistency from a hand grinder is a frustration but you have to be able to pull one good shot to start with. At least in my espresso journey getting the first good shot took what felt like forever
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Feb 10, 2023 18:37
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amenenema posted:Get a Niche Zero (cheapest "universally recommended" espresso grinder of which I'm aware) I got one of these yesterday but I've yet to try espresso with it. It feels so incredibly well built.
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Feb 10, 2023 18:39
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I really wish that the Opus went with flat 64mm burrs so that SSPs could be added in down the line. I get that it's made to budget, but it'd be nice to have some more competition in the DF64 section of the market.
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Feb 10, 2023 18:44
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sellouts posted:My recommendation was entirely price motivated given the OP went and bought a whole rear end machine and expected a Viruoso+ would get the job done. No offense to them but that’s a pretty obvious lack of research or an extreme need to do things as cheap as possible. Sure it sucks to find out after spending $1300(?) on an espresso machine that you also need a grinder, and I get where you are coming from. The espresso learning curve for a newbie is steep though, and a hand grinder makes it steeper. The Niche is great, and I love mine. It is a pretty expensive price tag to swallow when you aren't expecting to need a grinder. If you can afford it though, it will take you a very long time, if ever, to outgrow. I've heard nothing but good things about the Lagom Mini for the price, and that's probably the cheapest I would go if you needed a grinder today. As mentioned, its worth seeing what the Opus can do before spending money.
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Feb 10, 2023 18:48
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I like the Niche as well. I’m upgrading from it later this year and I agree it’s about the lowest level of grinder I’d start with, personally. But I also have a bigger budget than OP might? At least with a hand grinder a good shot is possible. I think it’s the cheapest way to at least have it be possible vs the machine sitting for who knows how long until other options are available?
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Feb 10, 2023 19:25
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I got one of these yesterday but I've yet to try espresso with it. It feels so incredibly well built. Calibrate it, imo. Super easy to do and there are plenty of YouTube videos. No tools required!
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Feb 10, 2023 19:27
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sellouts posted:Calibrate it, imo. Super easy to do and there are plenty of YouTube videos. No tools required! Just did this, thanks. It hadn't occurred to me, but makes sense.
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Feb 10, 2023 19:45
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Thanks for the suggestions. If I need to I'm not opposed to spending the money to get a nice grinder and ensure I can get consistently good espresso. I just ignorantly didn't realize how important it was to have a more capable grinder to get a good espresso shot. For now I'll see how it goes with the Virtuoso and once I get frustrated that I can't dial it in enough I'll probably grab the Niche Zero or something comparable. e: or perhaps hold out to see what the deal is with the Opus like some of you have suggested Jato fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Feb 10, 2023 |
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Feb 10, 2023 19:46
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My Encore is such a pain to dial in - it either chokes on the "3" dial, or pulls too fast on the "4". Still eagerly awaiting my Fellow Opus to ship in a couple weeks. Here's a video of stereotypical coffee nerd using it for Espresso: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po8HqlPKLK4
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Feb 10, 2023 20:24
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Jato posted:Thanks for the suggestions. If I need to I'm not opposed to spending the money to get a nice grinder and ensure I can get consistently good espresso. I just ignorantly didn't realize how important it was to have a more capable grinder to get a good espresso shot. Check out Eureka grinders as well, and enjoy your new machine!
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Feb 10, 2023 20:42
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Corb3t posted:My Encore is such a pain to dial in - it either chokes on the "3" dial, or pulls too fast on the "4". It's funny how when you ask online for guidance on what grinder setting to use for whatever brew method and everyone responds "every grinder is unique, can't do it" and yet this was my EXACT experience with my Encore. I know the plural of anecdote isn't evidence, so I guess "sup randomly identically calibrated Encore buddy!" FWIW I bet you'd find the following good starting points if you don't know them already (light to med roasts): Fellow Prismo Aeropress "espresso" shot - 8 Moka pot - 14 V60 - 16 Switch/Clever - 20 Cold brew - 25 amenenema fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 10, 2023 |
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Feb 10, 2023 21:16
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Jato posted:Well I did a thing the other day and ordered an espresso machine - went for an Ascaso Dream PID on the recommendation of wirecutter + I just really like the aesthetic of it. Unfortunately, you went a bit backwards here. Once you get above like $300, the espresso machine is significantly less important than the grinder. More expensive machines give you niceties and extra control (outside of a couple specifics, but they’re unless to a newbie), but don’t really give you better espresso. Grinders on the other hand, more costly nearly always = better and more consistent espresso. It’s typically recommended to spend more on your grinder than your machine, or at least an equal amount. That being said, the Niche is a great option. The niche is older though, and there’s some great competition for espresso grinders currently. Niche wins on workflow alone, but the DF64 seems comparable, and there’s a couple of others in that price range that will be similar. IMO the opus is getting overhyped. No reviews yet, but There is no way fellow was able to make a $200 espresso grinder that’s as good as stuff in the $800 range. I think it’s going to be an excellent entry level option, but people saying it’s gonna compete with the niche are nuts. With as expensive of a machine as you bought, buying an entry level grinder is just going to sour your experience with espresso, and you should be prepared to stick with the niche price class. amenenema posted:It's funny how when you ask online for guidance on what grinder setting to use for whatever brew method and everyone responds "every grinder is unique, can't do it" and yet this was my EXACT experience with my Encore. Every grinder is unique, especially on the espresso side. Such small variations in grind size lead to such large changes in the brew. This is less an issue with non-espresso methods. Encore and the like do their best to calibrate their numbers, but it’s never perfect. There’s even a set screw they use to calibrate each burr set to offset manufacturing tolerances. No human or machine is gonna be consistent enough to hit the exact same burr gap in fractional millimeters every time. This doesn’t even consider the fact that as you use the grinder, the burrs will slightly slip, adjust, and season, changing the gap further. This isn’t seen as a bad thing, but will change what each number does. It also doesn’t consider that every bag of beans is different. I’ve had one bag choke on 6, and another choke on 3. If you take two encores used by 2 different people for a year and attempt to do a side by side with the same bag of beans, they will not produce the same results.
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Feb 10, 2023 21:43
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Relevant to grinderchat: James Hoffmann’s patreon post today mentioned that an ode 2 review and “best grinder under £500” video are upcoming, so if you’re considering an upgrade, you may want to hold off for a little while until those are released. Or you may want to buy an ode 2 now in case there’s a sudden shortage.
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Feb 10, 2023 21:54
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:Every grinder is unique... Oh for sure, I agree. I just thought it was ironic and figured throwing out some numbers that work for non-espresso stuff might be helpful.
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Feb 10, 2023 23:06
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Jato posted:Well I did a thing the other day and ordered an espresso machine - went for an Ascaso Dream PID on the recommendation of wirecutter + I just really like the aesthetic of it. I went from cheapo Secura to Rancilio Rocky when I got my Gaggia, and while that helped a little, I just got a Baratza Vario + earlier this week and it blows the Rocky away. The degree of espresso fine tuning control is wonderful and it can easily shift back to conventional, French press, etc. People are correct in that purpose made espresso grinders are wonderful tools but if you want a do-all or have minimal counter space I'm definitely happy with the Vario +. Changing tangents - anyone know of a North American green coffee bean retailer that stocks Cuban beans? There's a handful of Canadian sellers but they all seem to be out of stock. UK places have them but shipping is a killer. MJP fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Feb 11, 2023 |
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Feb 11, 2023 16:11
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What is the thread's opinion for a machine + grinder for legit espresso at <$1k? I am not terribly intimidated by a manual machine (Flair 58), but one reviewer stated that a Breville Bambino is a better first espresso machine.
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Feb 12, 2023 20:34
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theHUNGERian posted:What is the thread's opinion for a machine + grinder for legit espresso at <$1k? I am not terribly intimidated by a manual machine (Flair 58), but one reviewer stated that a Breville Bambino is a better first espresso machine. Gaggia classic pro with Eureka Mignon Chrono, using the espresso burrset from the more expensive 50mm Eurekas.
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Feb 12, 2023 20:55
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theHUNGERian posted:What is the thread's opinion for a machine + grinder for legit espresso at <$1k? I am not terribly intimidated by a manual machine (Flair 58), but one reviewer stated that a Breville Bambino is a better first espresso machine. Check out some of the recent James Hoffman and lance hedrick videos on the topic. You can def get machine + grinder under $1k. You should try to spend more on the grinder. I might consider a niche zero and a used gaggia or a Breville if you can find a good deal. Df64 or df83 are also excellent. Manual machines are fine, but it is significantly more work to gently caress around with than a semi-auto machine, especially to learn on. There’s a lot more pre heating and sizing limitations. At a $1k budget I’d probably not go manual.
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Feb 12, 2023 21:59
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:You can def get machine + grinder under $1k. You should try to spend more on the grinder. I might consider a niche zero and a used gaggia or a Breville if you can find a good deal. Df64 or df83 are also excellent. Seconding this, especially the part about spending more on the grinder. If I had to start over with that budget, I would just buy the niche (around $650 shipped to the states, at current exchange rates) and stalk ebay for a deal on a used gaggia or silvia, which seem to go for under $300 pretty regularly. That leaves ~$50 for a tamper, knockbox, and a few other accessories. Side note: I have a feeling someone is going to get a great deal on this little guy. I haven't used one but the CC1 has a solid, but low-key, reputation, with some nicer features than the gaggia/silvia at a similar price point. The description says they're having problems with steam after 3 years which 9 times out of 10 means they haven't been descaling it enough (or at all) and there's buildup in the boiler or wand, a very easy problem to fix.
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Feb 13, 2023 00:24
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Finally took the plunge and ordered a Lagom P64. Not sure what to do with my Niche once it arrives (mid-May apparently). Never thought I'd spend so much money on something like this, but I guess I already own a Bianca!
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Feb 13, 2023 01:31
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Nice! I've been very happy with mine. What burrs did you go with?
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Feb 13, 2023 01:39
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Gunder posted:Finally took the plunge and ordered a Lagom P64. Not sure what to do with my Niche once it arrives (mid-May apparently). Never thought I'd spend so much money on something like this, but I guess I already own a Bianca! Where did you order it from? I had put my email in for the restock notification at Prima Coffee but haven't seen an email. What burrs did you choose?
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Feb 13, 2023 01:49
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