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RBA Starblade posted:The XCOM project's going to be extra tenuous this time around https://mobile.twitter.com/hasanthehun/status/1624890816555814914
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Feb 13, 2023 02:34
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:28 |
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The Earth completely ruining first contact with alien life because North American politicians had to put on a big show after some bad press regarding the spy balloon seems about right.
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Feb 13, 2023 02:39
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Sharkie posted:You can't trust those yokels, they're probably claiming every cough or dead bird is related to this safely contained incident. Unfortunately they'll probably keep it up for years. You can look forward to years of lots of people claiming to have "cancer" or "lung damage" just because they happened to live near the area, even though they have no scientific proof it caused anything. The best part is that this is what will happen in both a situation where there are no actual lingering effects and a situation where there actually are lingering effects. It's true both sarcastically and conspiratorially!
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Feb 13, 2023 02:59
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The problem with money and environmental regulations is that one side isn’t on Team We All Live. One side is obeying an algorithm called capitalism, and if you made them the offer “what if no safety regulations, what if you do you, just vibes” they would accept that deal. That is not a “partner in safety” or whatever. If you are working with a “partner” who wishes, existentially and like a force of nature, that the project (in this case, environmental safety regulations) did not exist you are not in a negotiation; you are in an adversarial relationship. You have to believe that regulation should exist to participate in the creation of such in good faith, and under capitalism, companies will fight for them not to exist, have a duty to the shareholder to fight for them not to exist, not for those regulations to be reasonable. Companies are constantly caught violating regulations, and their representatives lie about their impact on ecosystems, because ultimately they oppose regulation and any kind of accountability, and only obey regulations on our sufferance, and have the gall to pretend their jargon and insider knowledge means we shouldn’t treat them like the villains in these stories. Long story short it should be illegal for them to have any say in how regulations work, and any time you see a corporate PR mouthpiece speaking on regulatory compliance assume they ideally wouldn’t have to function under those regimes at all, because the entity they represent sure wishes they didn’t.
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Feb 13, 2023 03:48
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selec posted:The problem with money and environmental regulations is that one side isn’t on Team We All Live. One side is obeying an algorithm called capitalism, and if you made them the offer “what if no safety regulations, what if you do you, just vibes” they would accept that deal. That is not a “partner in safety” or whatever. If you are working with a “partner” who wishes, existentially and like a force of nature, that the project (in this case, environmental safety regulations) did not exist you are not in a negotiation; you are in an adversarial relationship. You have to believe that regulation should exist to participate in the creation of such in good faith, and under capitalism, companies will fight for them not to exist, have a duty to the shareholder to fight for them not to exist, not for those regulations to be reasonable. https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1624910190847094784?s=20&t=ZFGqTnWXZXBCbiyPACH7TQ Selec what alternative action would you recommend that the folks on the scene had taken? Specifically instead of breaching the tank cars and burning off the UN1086 in a pit, what action do think they should have taken? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 13, 2023 04:47
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Bar Ran Dun posted:https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1624910190847094784?s=20&t=ZFGqTnWXZXBCbiyPACH7TQ Just goes to show this entire "incident" has been ginned up as chud bait to hurt the administration. Our response was beautiful and perfect. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 13, 2023 04:51
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Bar Ran Dun posted:https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1624910190847094784?s=20&t=ZFGqTnWXZXBCbiyPACH7TQ You are confusing systems (the way that we allow capitalist interests to pretend their desires are the same as our desires) with individual actors within the system, which is a nonsensical, unresponsive thing to do in response to what I posted. The people on the scene of the accident are just working within the failings of the system as I have described it. The incident shouldn’t have occurred in the first place because railroad executives should fear and loath regulators, and have absolutely no say in what the regulatory structures they operate under. You’re pointing at evidence for my position and saying “WELL?” and the only thing I can say is “yeah, exactly.”
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Feb 13, 2023 04:56
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Bar Ran Dun posted:https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1624910190847094784?s=20&t=ZFGqTnWXZXBCbiyPACH7TQ Quoting a MTG tweet followed by that question is quite a statement. I dont want to speak for Selec but that seems to miss the substance of their post. Seems the conditions being discussed pre-empt the immediate response altogether (not 5hst there isn't a discussion there too). Edit 1 second apparently
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Feb 13, 2023 04:57
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My personal opinion is that we should be threatening to nationalize the rail lines. No regulation is going to convince them to move away from the model of “precision scheduling” railroading.
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Feb 13, 2023 04:57
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Bar Ran Dun posted:My personal opinion is that we should be threatening to nationalize the rail lines. No regulation is going to convince them to move away from the model of “precision scheduling” railroading. Hard agree, with jail time for execs who argued against tighter regulations.
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Feb 13, 2023 04:58
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So personal history on this issue. I worked for a not for profit for about 15 years that “assist(s) the Coast Guard in administering” the vessel sub section. I also have some knowledge about the origins of the hazardous materials regulations and grain regulations that is not public. I know with certainty I’ve prevented things worse than this from happening by using 49CFR. The Haz regs aren’t perfect. But they ain’t captured. There is fuckery around the edges. But there is no systemic problem with 49CFR. What there is, is a rail business model that is working folks and equipment to the bone. They aren’t going to give that model up. Regulation as a tool doesn’t really address that model. We should be threatening to nationalize the rail lines until they gently caress off with precision railroading. It’s a failure of a model. It’s been failing with cargo losses and derailments y’all don’t even know happened for several years now. The liability for its failures are externalized and limited, so the lines don’t give a gently caress.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:11
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BRJurgis posted:Quoting a MTG tweet followed by that question is quite a statement. I dont want to speak for Selec but that seems to miss the substance of their post. What happened is very very very bad. But I’ve yet to see real fundamental errors in the response. It looks to me like they couldn’t control the fire so they breached the tanks and burned it off in a trench to prevent an explosion. There is a coordinated exaggeration occurring to blame this on the government (see the MTG tweet) and nebulous “regulation”. Instead we should be blaming the rail, the business, that’s been loving up for decades, by cutting staffing and investment in their equipment to the bone.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:19
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selec posted:You are confusing systems (the way that we allow capitalist interests to pretend their desires are the same as our desires) with individual actors within the system, which is a nonsensical, unresponsive thing to do in response to what I posted. You are assuming that the capital that matters for this issue is the rail lines. The underwriters are the part of capital that has a strong vested interest in the long tail risk associated with hazardous materials regulations. The rail lines who want weaker regulation are the weaker party. The underwriters are going to pay for the cargo losses, the equipment losses, the mitigation and clean up, the immediate health care costs, and for the insured folks the long term health care costs. Your facile analysis ignores the actual interests of the capital C Capital in this.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:31
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Bar Ran Dun posted:What happened is very very very bad. Eh, I think your fellow posters are just not aware of the bigger picture like you are and are nebulously blaming regulation or the lack there of because the thing they're most aware of in this is that part of the rail business is that they have been lobbying so that the government doesn't step in and do things to stop them from cutting staff and investments to the bone. Honestly it seems like you both agree here.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:33
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Bar Ran Dun posted:My personal opinion is that we should be threatening to nationalize the rail lines. No regulation is going to convince them to move away from the model of “precision scheduling” railroading. Threatening is what we should have done instead of preemptively settling the union contract. Now we should be in the process of nationalization, while ensuring all records are maintained for future criminal charges on the executives who hosed things up for last quarter's profits. We'll of course do none of that. Opting instead to sigh while asking the railroad barons to pretty please play nice
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Feb 13, 2023 05:35
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Gumball Gumption posted:Honestly it seems like you both agree here. I would like folks I basically agree with to not play into right wing propaganda narratives especially when it is utterly unnecessary to do so. I had been suspicious there was propaganda happening around this event, the MTG tweet is enough to confirm it for me.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:39
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Gyges posted:Threatening is what we should have done instead of preemptively settling the union contract. Hard agree, and I said so at the time. Even if it’s only a bargaining position we should have started there.
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Feb 13, 2023 05:40
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I would like folks I basically agree with to not play into right wing propaganda narratives especially when it is utterly unnecessary to do so. What the hell is this 'narrative' even supposed to be?
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Feb 13, 2023 07:16
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What the hell is this 'narrative' even supposed to be? The narrative is that the media is controlled by the democrats who are using UFOs to distract people from Joe Biden poisoning America
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Feb 13, 2023 07:37
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What the hell is this 'narrative' even supposed to be? The most basic version of it is not complicated: You can’t trust anything they tell you. It’s dangerous because a very incredibly bad thing has happen. It’s undeniably awful. There are going to be long lasting effects. And all the focus is on one UN number, there’s like at-least five different hazardous materials involved here. But if you look at tweets and even posts on these forms you’d think there were clouds of phosgene drifting around.
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Feb 13, 2023 07:42
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What the hell is this 'narrative' even supposed to be? The narrative is that all regulation is captured and therefore bad. It doesn't really matter if the leftist believes it's captured by capital and the conservative believes it's captured by their boogeyman of the day, if the end result is both want to tear down the regulatory state. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 13, 2023 07:46
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tinhat idea, MTG has a heads up on a hit piece this week and needs something to distract/shield from it. maybe the rep from GA should keep in her lane and let PA and OH reps/sneators do the bashing atleast.
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Feb 13, 2023 08:07
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Papercut posted:The narrative is that all regulation is captured and therefore bad. It doesn't really matter if the leftist believes it's captured by capital and the conservative believes it's captured by their boogeyman of the day, if the end result is both want to tear down the regulatory state. This is the opposite of what I want so it feels like you’re making up a guy up to get mad at. What I’d like would be stronger regulations, with stronger enforcement, outlaw lobbying, nationalize the whole loving thing and remove the profit motive, which constantly applies a pressure to defund regulators, skirt compliance and work to erode regulatory mandates. What part of that is right wing propaganda?I
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Feb 13, 2023 08:09
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selec posted:This is the opposite of what I want so it feels like you’re making up a guy up to get mad at. Literally not making it up BRJurgis posted:A broad wet brush, but could one just say that regulations and oversight always cater to money over other matters, relatively? Regulatory capture isn't a new topic here, nor is the importance of commerce to every level of power including
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Feb 13, 2023 08:17
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James Garfield posted:That cult is like 20-30% of the country, which is substantial in terms of the absolute number of people but if Republicans were limited to the cult members they would lose almost everything. Even that article starts with "rising". Republicans are successfully radicalizing their electorate. That's not disarray but the opposite. Also a third of the country being in a cult is already insane numbers, absolutely or not.
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Feb 13, 2023 09:57
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Neo Rasa posted:Just have a bunch of bombers drop massive loads of needles from high altitude problem solved. I think the correct tactic was revealed already in the NES game Balloon Fight.
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Feb 13, 2023 10:26
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I don't see how he can say anything that will satisfy anyone. https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/1625102754480889860
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Feb 13, 2023 13:04
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I have heard literally no one in real life talk about this
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Feb 13, 2023 14:08
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People losing their poo poo over balloons (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 13, 2023 14:11
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Papercut posted:The narrative is that all regulation is captured and therefore bad. It doesn't really matter if the leftist believes it's captured by capital and the conservative believes it's captured by their boogeyman of the day, if the end result is both want to tear down the regulatory state. Nice phrasing. So you're saying I'm mad that regulations exist, instead of what incentives influence them? Well I'll give you half credit, the regulatory state will be the last to go when we rise up! ... Which one is it? I bet it's California.
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Feb 13, 2023 14:28
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If we nationalize the industry are the standards applied internally still considered "regulations" or are they considered something else? I might technically be in favor of tearing out the regulatory state but only in the sense of replacing it to something more strict. False comparisons to Republicans don't help anyone.
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Feb 13, 2023 14:34
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Piell posted:People losing their poo poo over balloons Military specifically said these last three objects were not balloons.
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Feb 13, 2023 14:46
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Feb 13, 2023 14:47
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Charlz Guybon posted:Military specifically said these last three objects were not balloons.
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Feb 13, 2023 14:56
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cat botherer posted:I'm a bigtime UAP guy. I want them to be the real deal, but at this point it looks more like China is trying to gently caress with us and make us look stupid, and it's working.
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Feb 13, 2023 14:57
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it would be pretty cost effective to start endlessly loving with us with balloons.
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Feb 13, 2023 14:58
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FlamingLiberal posted:It would be an amazing coincidence that days after we shot down a Chinese balloon that this was the time that aliens decided to make themselves known The odds are like a billion to one. That's exactly why the aliens are doing it - to catch us off guard.
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Feb 13, 2023 14:59
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FlamingLiberal posted:It would be an amazing coincidence that days after we shot down a Chinese balloon that this was the time that aliens decided to make themselves known The aliens, having just spent fifty years retooling their landing craft after early tests showed that humans find flying saucers kind of eerie, finally got ready to roll out their new balloon shaped craft. After all, the human juveniles enjoy balloons at cyclical commemoration rites, so it should be perfect! 
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Feb 13, 2023 15:01
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FlamingLiberal posted:It would be an amazing coincidence that days after we shot down a Chinese balloon that this was the time that aliens decided to make themselves known I, for one, am in line with the idea that we shot a giant alien stop sign out of the sky. They see that we have some level of reverence for the octagonal image in our vehicles and thought to communicate to us using that symbol. Instead, we shot it out of the sky.
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Feb 13, 2023 15:07
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 18:28 |
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The whole Ohio derailment story has two sides to it. The railroad allowing the train to derail, which is bad, and the HAZWOPER response which was the best that it could be under the circumstances. Conflating the two really isn't helpful, and it has me absolutely ripping my hair out at people saying "they set it on fire because they're evil, it's Cherenobyl 2.0!!! Everyone within a 1000 mile radius is going to die!!!" Or worse, people going "this is exactly the same thing as Bhopal" which gently caress off. And this is something that's going on over all sides of the political spectrum because most people just fundamentally don't understand what goes into making the materials that they take for granted. Anyways, it's going to be interesting to see what comes of this. My fear is that they're going to focus more on making "derail-proof tanks" due to the hysteria, which is absolutely the wrong direction. No functional tank is going to stand up to a derailment, the best you can do is put 20 more layers of metal on thr outside and hope for the best. Which would just reduce total volume, which means more tanks, more trains, more chance for derailment. Instead they need to figure out how it went off the rails and work from there. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Feb 13, 2023 |
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