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Mendrian posted:EDIT: Upon rethinking, I suppose it is possible for someone to have the correct gear that would make a big difference in combat, but I've never seen anyone able to hold onto gear long enough to put together a cohesive 'set' of gear built around a singular purpose (casting speed, or true damage, for instance) but if they did hypothetically exist that could make a significant difference. for the record rogues stacking +magic damage can like, 2 tap almost anyone with poison weapon lol
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Feb 13, 2023 18:39
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Valentin posted:curious what people make of interaction speed as a mechanic. I (mostly playing ranger/cleric) have found it lightly annoying but mostly balanced, my friend (who only plays wizard) complains it makes soloing as wizard basically impossible ranger +agility gear makes you literally several times faster at doing stuff than classes that don't get agi. barbs are fast with the 'smash everything' perk, too
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Feb 13, 2023 18:41
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Valentin posted:curious what people make of interaction speed as a mechanic. I (mostly playing ranger/cleric) have found it lightly annoying but mostly balanced, my friend (who only plays wizard) complains it makes soloing as wizard basically impossible It definitely makes certain classes better at doing certain types of things. I don't loot chests on my cleric, it takes too long, only bodies, and I let our ranger do the chest looting. E: I also don't open doors. My guess is that magic interaction is altar of sacrifice (other altars?), but it may be broken because ~playtest~.
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Feb 13, 2023 18:52
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i think magic interaction is shrines yeah a barb in our group had my soulheart and they rezzed me and it took forever
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Feb 13, 2023 18:56
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DisgracelandUSA posted:It definitely makes certain classes better at doing certain types of things. I don't loot chests on my cleric, it takes too long, only bodies, and I let our ranger do the chest looting. E: I also don't open doors. i think it must be because one of the core issues we encountered was the ranger seeming to have a much faster altar of sacrifice time than the wizard despite having a negative magic interaction stat
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Feb 13, 2023 19:06
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FungiCap posted:I saw a wizard coming my way who didn't see me. I put a trap down right next to a wall spike and turned out the lights. A minute later I saw the message of them dying to a wall spike in the kill feed. was duoing with a rogue goon yesterday and baited another wizard into a room as a fighter. the rogue was stealthed next to the door and popped out behind him to two shot him. those kills really make the game shine
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Feb 13, 2023 19:09
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magic interaction is not currently a working stat, according to knowledgeable friends who have played way, way too many hours
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Feb 13, 2023 19:12
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DisgracelandUSA posted:I think I've read about some people getting v. high %physical damage reduction (>80%? >90%). That will feel like shot for shot they're coming out far ahead, but that's probably a tell that you should use different tactics, like magic damage or oil lanterns or molotovs or not engaging. I'm all for changing up tactics and trying to roll with the punches. But with the way the game works right now I have no idea if someone has high damage reduction when I'm hitting them until after they've killed me and see how little damage I actually did. It's basically impossible for me to tell exactly how geared an enemy player is since the rarity of their gear isn't reflected visually. Is that felling axe a crappy grey one or a one-shotting orange one. I won't know until they hit me with it. If I could tell how good their stuff was then maybe I could plan to avoid them or change my tactics away from an upfront confrontation. But in general playing a barbarian usually just means to run in and hit them before they hit you since that's all you're built for. I'm not saying that's not fun, it just would also be nice if outcomes of fights could be decided a bit more mechanically rather than 2 sets of numbers smashing each other with the higher one coming out on top usually.
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Feb 13, 2023 21:57
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DarkAvenger211 posted:It's basically impossible for me to tell exactly how geared an enemy player is since the rarity of their gear isn't reflected visually. Is that felling axe a crappy grey one or a one-shotting orange one. The skins are actually visually distinct between quality for a lot of the weapons, with grey being lovely/rusty and the weapon getting progressively cleaner and more gilt as it gets better. Just, you know, good luck noticing how pimped the handle of that felling axe is right before it caves your face in. (also, all armor looks the same)
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Feb 13, 2023 22:06
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DarkAvenger211 posted:I'm all for changing up tactics and trying to roll with the punches. But with the way the game works right now I have no idea if someone has high damage reduction when I'm hitting them until after they've killed me and see how little damage I actually did. One little tip that might help is to try and inspect as many people in the lobby as you can. Sometimes you can't get to everyone, but if you have time, run up to them and inspect them. Doesn't help if they find stuff in raid too. But maybe it'll help a little. I'm with that some better visuals for gear would be nice though. Sometimes the game is just 2 numbers smashing, but maybe that'll change when more and more classes are added. Curious what the game will be like when the game has 10+ classes and not just the 6 basic ones now. I'm excited to see what Druid and Bard add to the game.
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Feb 13, 2023 22:10
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Demon Of The Fall posted:was duoing with a rogue goon yesterday and baited another wizard into a room as a fighter. the rogue was stealthed next to the door and popped out behind him to two shot him. those kills really make the game shine I was this rogue and it was the most satisfying kill I've had to date. 10/10 would do again.
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Feb 14, 2023 00:50
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I dropped a pile of crap in the middle of a room and chugged an invisible pot once I heard someone. Stuck a felling axe into the poor cleric's head who came to investigate. This worked 3 more times because the growing pile of bodies somehow wasn't causing anyone to get suspicious
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Feb 14, 2023 02:02
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im not sure how much long term longevity this game is gonna have once its actually out for a bit and the high-roller 3 mans start getting seriously geared up. already starting to see what a huge difference geared players have only 1 week into the playtest and the imbalance is only going to get worse and that much harder for people starting out to get a foothold.
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Feb 14, 2023 02:20
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They really need to add a mass calculation to monster models. You should be able to walk your way past spiders, slowly displace goblins, and get pushed around by elits mobs and mummies.
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Feb 14, 2023 03:43
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Herstory Begins Now posted:
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Feb 14, 2023 04:37
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dsf posted:im not sure how much long term longevity this game is gonna have once its actually out for a bit and the high-roller 3 mans start getting seriously geared up. already starting to see what a huge difference geared players have only 1 week into the playtest and the imbalance is only going to get worse and that much harder for people starting out to get a foothold. Hard agree
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Feb 14, 2023 04:38
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Valentin posted:curious what people make of interaction speed as a mechanic. I (mostly playing ranger/cleric) have found it lightly annoying but mostly balanced, my friend (who only plays wizard) complains it makes soloing as wizard basically impossible I think it's sort of fine? Interaction mostly comes with opening doors and looting chests, both of which can potentially matter in combat, though doors obviously far more so. Wizards can blast open doors and Barbs can charge though them, and honestly most fights require you to interact with a door at some point in my experience, so it existing as a mechanics that favors rogues for instance is an interaction that makes sense and gives those classes a small but competitive edge. I assume but have absolutely no proof that Magical Interaction is for prayer and resurrections. EDIT: I think the 'two numbers smashing together' comment is a big reductive, from upthread; I agree that those numbers could use tweaking and more fair is better than less fair, but I also think there's more to the game than standing directly in front of each other and swinging until one of you dies. You dodge out, get behind a corner, chug a potion, try to bait out your enemy's attack, dodge, go for the swing - it's not just each person swinging until they're out of hitpoints, you're doing other things. An unfair advantage means the worse geared player has to play better than the well geared player, though, which is hard when you probably also have less experience (little 'e') than the geared out person. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Feb 14, 2023 |
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Feb 14, 2023 05:31
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Just so you guys know +additional magic damage works on melee/ranged attacks, no idea if it even works on magic, pretty sure it's just a flat damage modifier. I have no idea if it works on the dummy cause I've heard conflicting things about that but it for sure is changing the thresholds of hits required to kill mobs, when the only thing I change is gear that has that on it, they die in less hits. There is also one unique called like Kuma's Claw that has +15 "additional dark magical damage" or something, and it's locked to ranger/fighter, which would make no sense if it didn't work.
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Feb 14, 2023 05:36
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dsf posted:im not sure how much long term longevity this game is gonna have once its actually out for a bit and the high-roller 3 mans start getting seriously geared up. already starting to see what a huge difference geared players have only 1 week into the playtest and the imbalance is only going to get worse and that much harder for people starting out to get a foothold. These playtests are definitely the most fun the game will ever be, but that's the case for lots of games.
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Feb 14, 2023 07:14
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Was rolling with two of the homies in the room with jail cells, spike traps and wood bridges. A rogue saw me in a cell while bandaging. I cancelled my bandage and ducked a few times and he ducked and dropped his clothes. He then rolled with us as we destroyed the rest of the squads in the dungeon. We even dropped clothes for him from the players we killed once we were comfortable with him. We looped back around, and he actually noticed that there was a cleric casting spells in a room with only one entrance and started beating on the door, so we stacked up and killed the two guys inside. We saw his name briefly in the killfeed, but we kept moving on to fight more squads so we didn't catch his full name. We all found portals and extracted at the end. Game owns. dsf posted:im not sure how much long term longevity this game is gonna have once its actually out for a bit and the high-roller 3 mans start getting seriously geared up. already starting to see what a huge difference geared players have only 1 week into the playtest and the imbalance is only going to get worse and that much harder for people starting out to get a foothold. Well, it is a free game with a projected EA release in April which is traditionally a dead time of the year for game releases. I think it will be fine for quite a while, despite what the "OMG I DIED IN 3 SECONDS" newbies keep crying about.
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Feb 14, 2023 07:18
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They could always do what Tarkov does and just wipe everything for new seasons or whatever. Making everyone start from scratch again. Although it would be nice to eventually start blocking high geared/leveled teams from entering the normal castle to give those of us that don't have four hours a day to level grind a chance to grab and keep gear. Or at the very least giving level tiers to dungeon maps to group people as close as possible relative to their respective levels/gear.
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Feb 14, 2023 08:13
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Jiro posted:They could always do what Tarkov does and just wipe everything for new seasons or whatever. Making everyone start from scratch again. Although it would be nice to eventually start blocking high geared/leveled teams from entering the normal castle to give those of us that don't have four hours a day to level grind a chance to grab and keep gear. They could probably make it not worthwhile to roll through the regular dungeon by adding expensive repairs to their equipment.
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Feb 14, 2023 08:29
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VulgarandStupid posted:They could probably make it not worthwhile to roll through the regular dungeon by adding expensive repairs to their equipment.
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Feb 14, 2023 09:58
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yo the discord server invite has expired, can a new one that doesn't expire get posted? or it can expire idc, I just want an invite please
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Feb 14, 2023 10:13
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dsf posted:im not sure how much long term longevity this game is gonna have once its actually out for a bit and the high-roller 3 mans start getting seriously geared up. already starting to see what a huge difference geared players have only 1 week into the playtest and the imbalance is only going to get worse and that much harder for people starting out to get a foothold. Dystopia Barbarian posted:Hard agree I got into the game last playtest and what I was looking forward to was someone else who has a budget to do it "properly" would start work on a clone after it blew up. My ideal would be something like a mix between this and DMZ. Like an "overworld" with towns and dungeons scattered about.
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Feb 14, 2023 14:23
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One thing I think they ought to do is either more strongly incentivize heavily geared players to stick to high roller mode or even make it so there are gear scores and once you're psst a certain threshold equipped you CAN'T queue for casual mode. This would discourage some of that snowball effect. There's already a Grey market developing too. Yes, people are spending actual real money for gold to buy gear in a demo two days before everything gets wiped, and it's becoming pay4advantage.
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Feb 14, 2023 14:30
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Not sure about trio/duo play but solo I feel there’s always a risk to dying and losing your stuff. It could be something as simple as not having time to heal after a fight. If they expand the modes for more solo options and rogues still exist you’re taking a risk.
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Feb 14, 2023 14:49
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in groups the biggest vulnerability is getting third partied basically right as you're full committing. If you're running a meta comp and know what you are doing you probably aren't spending much time down on hp. Post fight campfire is probably the biggest moment of vulnerability. With how potion heals work (and notably that you can stack different tiers of potions, so carry both grey and white) getting health back isn't that hard actually. tbh I feel like third partying is surprisingly rare in this relative to basically every other comparable game I've played, albeit that probably will change as people get better. that said, yeah there's always the possibility of dying as a trio. If your gear is really good it's a pretty low possibility, but idk you're never more than a well-executed third party or a single party member making a significant misplay away from being in real danger of dying. does need more balancing on the top end and I'm curious what they'll end up doing to sort it out.
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Feb 14, 2023 15:04
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Mendrian posted:I think the 'two numbers smashing together' comment is a big reductive, from upthread; I agree that those numbers could use tweaking and more fair is better than less fair, but I also think there's more to the game than standing directly in front of each other and swinging until one of you dies. You dodge out, get behind a corner, chug a potion, try to bait out your enemy's attack, dodge, go for the swing - it's not just each person swinging until they're out of hitpoints, you're doing other things. An unfair advantage means the worse geared player has to play better than the well geared player, though, which is hard when you probably also have less experience (little 'e') than the geared out person. My comment kind of fixates on barbarian gameplay, it just feels like 2 numbers smashing together when it's barbarian vs barbarian or shieldless fighter. I know there's a possibility of people missing their swings or connecting with terrain instead but 90% of my encounters like this just end up being 2 dudes smashing each other until one falls over. There's not a lot of dodging possibilities especially with barb since you're already one of the slower classes and if you start a swing and they start a swing you move even slower there's a low chance of either of you missing. Even adding something as simple as feinting (cancelling my swings during the windup) so I can move at normal speed again would probably go a while in feeling like you have more control in a melee. And maybe that's not what they're going for? Maybe they just want barbarians to be the guys that can only run up and smash against the other guys numbers and I should be playing another class if I want to try and play smart. I just really love smashing doors and chests it's half the reason I stuck with them
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Feb 14, 2023 15:41
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There's aim involved too - if you can consistently hit headshots and they can't you're going to come out on top. I'd say I come out on top more often than not against other barbs and fighters because I'm hitting my headshots more consistently than they are. I just wish I'd discovered how good dual wielding is sooner because you can dice their heads up right quick and not be punished as severely as with the two handers when you do gently caress up. I wouldn't mind a game with a more complex combat system but I'm fine with this game being what it is. It's why I don't understand calls for a PvE only mode - it'd get dreadfully boring pretty quickly with the game as it currently plays.
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Feb 14, 2023 15:55
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barb is more engaging the less you are stacking -move speed. That kind of applies to everything, but it's most extreme with barb. Also misses absolutely do happen and absolutely are team fight defining.
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Feb 14, 2023 15:59
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My crew rolled bar/cle/cle and bar/cle/wiz last night and it was hilarious and fun and cool. Posters who said horseman's axe was ridiculous, thank you. We've been playing pretty exclusively as a 3 man, and we mostly die when going up against more geared / more meta 3-man comps, pro wizards, when folks get the drop on us and when we get third partied. We are geared, but certainly not purples or oranges, and not even a ton of blues. It also looks like repair is planned, but not yet implemented. E: Herstory Begins Now posted:With how potion heals work (and notably that you can stack different tiers of potions, so carry both grey and white) getting health back isn't that hard actually. Do you know if protection potions stack? What about protection potions with cleric shield?
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Feb 14, 2023 16:24
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This is one of those games that is a lot of fun to just gently caress around in for a while, and gets drastically painfully less fun if you take it seriously and start caring about compositions and finnicky gearing bullshit because there's a gallon of tedium and an ounce of depth in those systems. It really captures everything that was good and bad about Tarkov
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Feb 14, 2023 16:25
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Someone collected and posted a bunch of unique items. Some of these are nutty and what end-game is likely gonna look like. https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkAndDarker/comments/111zn2x/i_heard_we_were_sharing_named_uniques_we_have/ Some of the bows are nutty. One that pushes back and one that turns your bow into a laser. A sword, I think a rapier, that does additional damage and slows for 10 secs.
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Feb 14, 2023 17:15
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By reading the last few pages sounds like the class I chose, barbarian, really has a tougher time of it in the beginning because that default weapon sounds like it's right trash compared to the most basic white quality axe you can buy from the shop. I probably wouldn't have bitched and complained as much if the two-handed axe felt like a two-handed axe and not a really slow, stubby one-handed axe that did slightly more damage.
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Feb 14, 2023 17:33
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Jimbot posted:By reading the last few pages sounds like the class I chose, barbarian, really has a tougher time of it in the beginning because that default weapon sounds like it's right trash compared to the most basic white quality axe you can buy from the shop. I probably wouldn't have bitched and complained as much if the two-handed axe felt like a two-handed axe and not a really slow, stubby one-handed axe that did slightly more damage. It's not the quality of the starter axe that makes it bad - it's the animation/speed. I'd take a felling axe with nerfed damage as a replacement starter weapon just because it feels so much better to swing.
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Feb 14, 2023 17:54
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Groovelord Neato posted:It's not the quality of the starter axe that makes it bad - it's the animation/speed. I'd take a felling axe with nerfed damage as a replacement starter weapon just because it feels so much better to swing. Yeah, that's basically what it boiled down to for me. The thing just felt like poo poo and watching barbarian videos on youtube I was like "what game is this person playing, this wasn't my experience with two-handed weapons at all". I'm not saying they should make the free weapon the best weapon but it should at least showcase what the class is about a little bit (without making the people who grinded to get powerful feel like they did it for nothing). A hard balancing act for sure but boy does that axe feel like poop.
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Feb 14, 2023 17:59
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Barbarian seems like it has very few functional weapon options, felling axe is the one 2handed weapon that swings fast enough that you can actually hit people who have any idea how to dodge, horseman's axe/hatchet are solid 1handers that get the axe mastery boost, quarterstaff's damage kind of sucks but it's hard to dodge with low movement penalty and the bardiche has absurd range/damage but it's absurdly slow as well. Everything else is some sort of 2hander feels like it swings as slow as the bardiche without the damage/range to make up for it.
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Feb 14, 2023 18:01
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Man I suck at this game. Level 15 fighter running mostly solo in Goblin caves and still getting my rear end poisoned and beaten by angry Goblins, mummies, flying skulls and every so often another Player who's way more decked out than me because I haven't escaped a dungeon more than once. Then when I did manage an escape it was because a kind player helped me and then I didn't stash any of my loot so I lost it all immediately in the next game. lol Maybe this kind of game isn't for me.
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Feb 14, 2023 18:05
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AndyElusive posted:Man I suck at this game. Level 15 fighter running mostly solo in Goblin caves and still getting my rear end poisoned and beaten by angry Goblins, mummies, flying skulls and every so often another Player who's way more decked out than me because I haven't escaped a dungeon more than once. In your defense friend, goblins caves is rightfully harder than it should be. There's often not a lot of room to work, a lot of starts hit you with two mobs immediately, and goblin poison is really brutal for anyone with a default kit (except cleric).
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Feb 14, 2023 18:35
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