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knuthgrush posted:As I understand it, I can't buy the bike without a license but I can't practice for the test without the bike. You can absolutely buy the bike without a license; you just can't legally ride it. That has never stopped anyone. Plenty of people get an experienced friend to ride the bike home for them and then they practice illegally around their neighborhood (or legally on their own property). Many others buy the bike and ride it home without a license. YOLO You can also do the motorcycle safety course, as suggested, which I also highly recommend. You will ride a proper motorcycle in that course, but all the concepts apply equally to scooters or any other powered two-wheel vehicle.
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Feb 13, 2023 16:38
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Sagebrush posted:If you're only going a mile back and forth, get an electric bike or the Ruckus because a larger combustion engine won't even have time to warm up in that distance. What would go wrong with the engine not warming up? Just heavier wear or something more sinister? I can limit highway sections to like a half mile max so that might be OK. The more I look at the dual sports, they do look fun but it's definitely more than I want to get into at the moment. If I manage to pick up the trail 125 and like it, I might go bigger later but that'd be a long while later.
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Feb 13, 2023 16:40
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Sagebrush posted:You can absolutely buy the bike without a license; you just can't legally ride it. That has never stopped anyone. Plenty of people get an experienced friend to ride the bike home for them and then they practice illegally around their neighborhood (or legally on their own property). Many others buy the bike and ride it home without a license. YOLO That's really good to know. I have enough private space to practice with something like the 125 but it's mostly not paved.
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Feb 13, 2023 16:41
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Yeah it's just not good for the engine if it spends most of its time running cold. The oil is thicker and doesn't flow as well, and the parts haven't expanded to the proper tolerances. Small motorcycle engines have to be revved high to make power, and running at high speed when the engine is cold will increase wear. It won't blow up on you or anything, and you're looking at Hondas which are the most reliable vehicles on the planet, so it's probably nothing you have to actually worry about. And in the worst case if the engine does wear out after 20,000 miles, it's a small Honda and parts are about as cheap as they get. I'm just being nitpicky
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Feb 13, 2023 16:46
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knuthgrush posted:Said tests/class solutions sound like good 'ol American lobbying hard at work! I'll definitely look into it. I hope they take dumbasses because I haven't driven a bike in like 25 years or so. Thanks a ton!
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Feb 13, 2023 16:47
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Thanks for all the info, folks. Looks like the MSF has some classes at a Harley dealership about an hour away from here so I'll look into that and hope they don't try to sell me a hawg.
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Feb 13, 2023 16:56
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2 time TW200 owner here, I love them but there are a couple negatives that may or may not matter to you: 1. They just don't do freeway speeds. You can do backroads/county roads/highways but are limited to around 55mph and even at that the bike is struggling. 2. They are extremely popular on the used market and it's getting worse. I used to see nice used ones for $1500-$2500 now they're approaching on the price of a new one. If you are shopping for one and see one at a good price do not wait. If you have any desire to ride longer distances (and you might find yourself wanting this after you start riding) go with something like a KLX250/230, Yamaha XT225/250, or WR250R if you're willing to spend the money. Older Suzuki DR250/350s (but not the DR200) are also OK if cheap and in good condition (they're usually beat to piss). The DRZ400 is probably more bike than you want or need at this point (also always overpriced and typically beat to piss). The Super Sherpa is another great bike if you can find one, but it has near-cult status.
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Feb 13, 2023 17:30
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knuthgrush posted:What would go wrong with the engine not warming up? Just heavier wear or something more sinister? It's also going to be hard on your battery, I'd try to keep it on a tender because rides that short may not recharge it enough to make up for what you used starting it.
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Feb 13, 2023 18:17
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Sagebrush posted:It won't blow up on you or anything, and you're looking at Hondas which are the most reliable vehicles on the planet, so it's probably nothing you have to actually worry about. And in the worst case if the engine does wear out after 20,000 miles, it's a small Honda and parts are about as cheap as they get. I'm just being nitpicky Not to butt in here, but my 125 is a Suzuki ~of all things~ and it currently has 30,000 miles on the engine without a thought given to warming it up, even on recent 10-20 degree nights (which was dumb, because the clutch barely worked at those temps). Still going.
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Feb 13, 2023 19:19
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opengl posted:It's also going to be hard on your battery, I'd try to keep it on a tender because rides that short may not recharge it enough to make up for what you used starting it. I'll add here that a 50cc has a kickstart and an ignition system+ headlight that are independent of the battery electrical system so this would not be a concern if you went that way Slide Hammer posted:Not to butt in here, but my 125 is a Suzuki ~of all things~ and it currently has 30,000 miles on the engine without a thought given to warming it up, even on recent 10-20 degree nights (which was dumb, because the clutch barely worked at those temps). Still going. I mean a GN is designed to survive the apocalypse and comes from the factory pre-worn out so there's not much to lose 
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Feb 13, 2023 19:58
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The trail 125 rules but at least in my neck of the woods it’s impossible to find a new one or a used one for much under msrp. The flip side is that if you do find one and end up not liking it, you probably aren’t gonna take too much of a hit as far as depreciation goes (this advice relies on my forecasting of the used bike market and as such is not real advice and for novelty purposes only).
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Feb 13, 2023 20:03
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There's a local Honda shop that has the 125 new for about $4200. They also have the ruckus. It's how I found the 125.
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Feb 13, 2023 20:51
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Given you have an MSF available, I’d double check that they supply the beater beater bikes, do the class ASAP because it’s fun as hell, and you’ll get a tiny bit of experience before any big spending. Has anyone here known someone to regret the beginner ridercourse?
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Feb 13, 2023 21:33
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If I could have gotten a trail 125 for msrp after doing my msf last October, I totally would have gotten one. Instead I got a used Royal Enfield Continental for $4250, which is going to feel like a great deal until it breaks, but that's a problem for future me.
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Feb 13, 2023 22:26
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I really wanted to buy a Trail 125 but it wasn't going to happen in spring 2021. None available, used ones selling for 5k+. I found a Monkey instead and bought it. I haven't regretted it and my desire for the Trail has somewhat faded, but it's still there. I still want one.
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Feb 13, 2023 22:39
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knuthgrush posted:Thanks for all the info, folks. Looks like the MSF has some classes at a Harley dealership about an hour away from here so I'll look into that and hope they don't try to sell me a hawg. pro tip: pick the dirtbike for the riding portion of the class
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Feb 14, 2023 00:32
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What bikes do HD dealers normally use for their MSF courses? I know they’re ordering rebranded Chinese bikes for this purpose, but if I did an MSF on a sportster I don’t know if I’d have had nearly as much fun as I did on a rebel 300.
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Feb 14, 2023 00:38
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For a while it was Buell Blasts but these days I'm not sure.
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Feb 14, 2023 03:48
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When I took the MSF class at a Harley dealer 15 years ago all the bikes were GN250s. Probably just depends on what the dealer can get cheap.
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Feb 14, 2023 04:16
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RadioPassive posted:For a while it was Buell Blasts but these days I'm not sure. Instead of crushing all the blasts they should have sent them to MSF courses
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Feb 14, 2023 04:36
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Quick update without blogging/chatting too much: I did find a 2009 ruckus with 8900 miles on it and a new transmission for $1500 locally. I'm gonna go look at it this weekend if it doesn't get sold. I might also just check with the dealer here on a new one. I'm still looking into the motorcycle endorsement on my driver's license. I talked to my motorcycle crazy in-laws and they said the general process in our state is take a written test, get a permit, then within so many weeks take the skills test (or do the MSF class). The issue is getting a bike registered without a license. Not sure if I can do that with a permit or if I can take the skill test if it's not registered+insured. The MSF class looks cool but it's at a Harley dealership and that's super intimidating. I don't care much for that culture. It'll be double intimidating if the bikes are larger. I might just call them and see what they're using for the class. The skill test seems much more comfortable than a Harley place for several hours to me. Thanks again for all the responses. You've all been super helpful.
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Feb 14, 2023 06:31
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knuthgrush posted:The issue is getting a bike registered without a license. Not sure if I can do that with a permit or if I can take the skill test if it's not registered+insured. I was able to buy, register, and insure a motorcycle in WA with just a permit.
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Feb 14, 2023 06:52
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See if your Honda dealer has any of the new Navis there as well.
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Feb 14, 2023 08:32
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Russian Bear posted:See if your Honda dealer has any of the new Navis there as well. I'm sure they do but I'm hung up on the ruckus and trail 125. The latter especially because of the local dirt roads.
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Feb 14, 2023 16:04
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CongoJack posted:I was able to buy, register, and insure a motorcycle in WA with just a permit. I'll check into that. It seems reasonable. I just wish even the dmv or the cops who so the testing could give me a straight answer but nobody seems to know. I get the idea that most folks just do it illegally, ha.
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Feb 14, 2023 16:05
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CongoJack posted:I was able to buy, register, and insure a motorcycle in WA with just a permit. You don't even need the permit. I bought and registered my Monkey without a permit/endorsement in WA
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Feb 14, 2023 16:12
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2015 Honda CBR300R Rode it to work today (very nice after a month long weather hiatus) and noticed there's condensation on the inside of the instrument cluster glass. It doesn't prevent me from reading the display or tach. The bike has been sitting in cold storage all winter so things have been pretty damp. After any riding this winter I've washed it because road salt and put it in the ambient temp shed with a cold fan on it to help drying out before putting the cover back on. This seems to have kept any rust at bay but I think this condensation is how I'm paying the price for not heating the (insulated) shed since electricity in Europe has been hella expensive this winter. Is this something I should do anything about right now or can I just leave the bike as is and assume the water will eventually evaporate with spring, warmth and sunlight? I plan on putting this bike up for sale around April-May when it's had its periodic mandatory inspection and people are in a motorcycle buying mood and I want it to look as good as possible before then for financial reasons if nothing else.
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Feb 14, 2023 17:37
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Both of my bikes with TFT clusters do that. I understand it's pretty common and not an issue unless its seriously building up in there and doesn't clear up once you get some sun on it.
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Feb 14, 2023 17:53
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Another brief update: I got ahold of the state police (the ones that do all the testing). They said they no longer issue permits but they have no idea on purchasing/registering without a license. They essentially hinted that most people just drive illegally until they can test.. Looks like going to the Harley place for the class is the safest option. I'll look into that even though it makes me pretty drat uncomfortable. I got the generic study guide for the written test so I'll probably knock that out first. Thanks again for the help, folks.
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Feb 14, 2023 18:21
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knuthgrush posted:Another brief update: I got ahold of the state police (the ones that do all the testing). They said they no longer issue permits but they have no idea on purchasing/registering without a license. They essentially hinted that most people just drive illegally until they can test.. Looks like going to the Harley place for the class is the safest option. I'll look into that even though it makes me pretty drat uncomfortable. I got the generic study guide for the written test so I'll probably knock that out first. Thanks again for the help, folks. If you don't ride like a moron, no cop will pull you over to check your license. Obviously you will have trouble with obtaining insurance so it's not a good idea to do this.
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Feb 14, 2023 18:28
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This isn’t to trash talk Harley, but I promise that you will very soon not find Harley riders (at least ones unaffiliated with a gang) or dealers intimidating in the slightest. Also, MSF courses are all about making you feel comfortable. The only people I know who had a bad time at mine were the ones who came in cocky.
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Feb 14, 2023 20:17
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Llewellyn posted:This isn’t to trash talk Harley, but I promise that you will very soon not find Harley riders (at least ones unaffiliated with a gang) or dealers intimidating in the slightest. Also, MSF courses are all about making you feel comfortable. The only people I know who had a bad time at mine were the ones who came in cocky. it's just my area, i think. most of the people here on those kinds of bikes (i'm not sure what they're called, just generally standard harley type bikes) are usually a mid life crisis race war hobbyist fed by fox news. if they're not one of those, they tend to be in one of the handful of gangs that have a presence here. i really don't want to interact with either bunch. i'm not afraid of them, i just find them insufferable. i'm sure the class will mostly just be crawling with harley salesbros though because it provides a discount at the dealer that hosts it so that kinda slimeball is tolerable. the other half of the anxiety for me is whatever kinda bikes they're using for the class. as i previously mentioned, i don't want anything to do with a "real" bike. i'll call the dealership this week and try to get some more info. it's probably not that bad. i'm just a nervous person by default.
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Feb 14, 2023 20:35
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They’ll often have scooters available, but I’d still suggest doing it with a motorcycle so you get some practice with the clutch and shifting. You can always ride something that doesn’t have a clutch and have an easy time, but if you ever want to ride something with one you’ll be better prepared. My partner did the MSF twice because she never got around to the written portion and her first one expired. The second time she was going to do it on her Himalayan, but they wouldn’t allow anything over I think 300 cc. Maybe 250. It’ll definitely be a small bike unless you’re in a very specific kind of class.
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Feb 14, 2023 21:04
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Harley doesn’t make anything close to a beginner bike because they’ve been trying to go bankrupt for decades, but yeah it sounds like dealers just get standard smaller bikes from other brands. Picking a manual bike with gears is a good idea, and you’ll never have to leave first gear in an msf course anyway so it’s a very unintimidating environment to get familiar with them. I know msf courses can be intimidating (I stress-pooped before each permit and endorsement test) but they’re honestly fun!
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Feb 14, 2023 21:26
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Harley make learner bikes and have done for a long time, they just don't sell them in America, god it's exhausting having to explain this every loving time
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Feb 14, 2023 21:27
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I’m really sorry you have to explain this every time. Now that I know a Harley beginner bike exists on another corner of the planet I forgive them.
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Feb 14, 2023 21:35
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I might add that it isn't Harley's fault that the US license system is completely insane, they are doing what's in their interest - selling high margin bikes people actually buy. In other markets it is in their interest to sell learner bikes because those bikes have to exist by law and you need to get new buyers at the earliest opportunity if at all possible. In America this consists of putting them on a sportster 1200 with a complementary brain bucket because there is no incentive to make less money by doing otherwise. The American people on this forum who actually like and buy small bikes are a miniscule minority compared to the American market as a whole.
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Feb 14, 2023 21:54
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A licensed motorcycle rider in the US? Never heard of it.
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Feb 14, 2023 23:23
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Slavvy posted:In America this consists of putting them on a sportster 1200 with a complementary brain bucket I’ll have you know I did not get a free helmet. 
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Feb 15, 2023 00:02
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What kind of janky-rear end state can't unequivocally define and communicate a legal path to training and motorcycle ownership? FFS that makes me genuinely mad.
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Feb 15, 2023 04:41
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