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I also ordered one of the things in this video to get the last of the grounds out of the grinder (zero retention, sure): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_i43frlTFg
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Feb 15, 2023 09:53
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How did 9 bars come to be the industry standard for espresso? Is there a particular flavor profile that 9 bars provides that is just good with most beans?
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Feb 15, 2023 15:55
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AnimeIsTrash posted:How did 9 bars come to be the industry standard for espresso? Is there a particular flavor profile that 9 bars provides that is just good with most beans? I binged through a lot of Hoffmann videos recently and what I remember from it is that 9bar was usually what the old lever machines accomplished, by chance. And later, when people were able to use pumps to automatically build pressure, there were just diminishing returns (or even worsening taste) after 9 bar pretty quickly.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:59
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someone else is probably going to have a better informed take on the history, but espresso used to be judged at least as much on appearance as taste. 9 bar makes it easier to get those syrupy shots with thick crema which were considered the ideal espresso before the third wave came along and mucked everything up with light roasts and origin characteristics
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Feb 15, 2023 16:03
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Here is hoffman talking about the pressure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po3oGIicu-8&t=211s
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Feb 15, 2023 16:15
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:I also ordered one of the things in this video to get the last of the grounds out of the grinder (zero retention, sure): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_i43frlTFg Would this be worth getting for the Encore? Just got it a few days ago so I don't know if this bellows tool is more appropriate for finer espresso grinds as opposed to my aeropress/french press grinds.
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Feb 15, 2023 19:59
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Schrute Nation posted:Would this be worth getting for the Encore? Just got it a few days ago so I don't know if this bellows tool is more appropriate for finer espresso grinds as opposed to my aeropress/french press grinds. you gotta thump the hell out of the sides of encores/virtuosos to get excess grounds out of them, a bellows might help a little but those things retain a ton of grounds anyways
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Feb 15, 2023 20:06
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No grinder I am aware of is really 100% zero retention. When they say that, they usually mean you consistently get the same output weight as you put in. There's always going to be little nooks and crevices where some level of grounds get trapped. If you are using a "zero retention" grinder every day, I don't know if its worth using a bellows for that .2g of left behind coffee you might be swapping out every time. I certainly don't have the palate to notice a difference.
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Feb 15, 2023 21:11
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btw for american green coffee buyers, just learned about these folks recently and have nothing but positive things to say about them: https://www.catalyst-trade.com/collections/shop/products/peru-cajamarca-duo-faical-and-huellas-green-coffee-samples especially because they have a bunch of "two half pounds for about $8" options, which are great for trying lots of things if you happen to have a small sample roaster. haven't tried the kenyans on their site but the peruvian and ethiopian ones have been really high quality
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Feb 15, 2023 21:46
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I also tend to notice that what I'm violently bashing out of my Encore tends to be fines anyway, so I've just started upping what I put in by a quarter gram or so, using what comes out of the grinder naturally, and then thumping it out into the catch and trashing what comes out. I don't love it because I'm incredibly cheap but I'm wasting a little less than a gram per day this way so maybe one cup's worth by the end of a bag?
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Feb 15, 2023 21:54
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RichterIX posted:I also tend to notice that what I'm violently bashing out of my Encore tends to be fines anyway, so I've just started upping what I put in by a quarter gram or so, using what comes out of the grinder naturally, and then thumping it out into the catch and trashing what comes out. If you’re not adjusting your grind, and you’re brewing daily, the retention shouldn’t matter. Retention should be more or less flat. Using .5 grams from yesterdays grind (as long as the grind setting wasn’t touched) isn’t going to effect your cup enough to matter, especially on a $200 grinder. The banging actually would make it less consistent because there’s no way to consistently bang out the same amount of grinds every time. Retention is really only an issue when switching beans or switching grind settings.
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Feb 15, 2023 23:12
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i’ve noticed even a hand grinder has some retention, just way way less than electric ones, and it’s usually just silverskin and maybe a tiny bit of fines stuck to the wall in the chamber after grinding, something like 0,1 of a gram at most
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Feb 15, 2023 23:34
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:If you’re not adjusting your grind, and you’re brewing daily, the retention shouldn’t matter. Cool, this is interesting! I had apparently incorrectly thought that retention was somewhat cumulative, so that I'd continue to lose a quarter gram or whatever from every grind to some mystery place inside the grinder, it didn't really occur to me that new beans would push the old beans out or that it wouldn't adversely affect the taste of my cup to have yesterday's grinds in there.
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Feb 16, 2023 00:18
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RichterIX posted:Cool, this is interesting! I had apparently incorrectly thought that retention was somewhat cumulative, so that I'd continue to lose a quarter gram or whatever from every grind to some mystery place inside the grinder, it didn't really occur to me that new beans would push the old beans out or that it wouldn't adversely affect the taste of my cup to have yesterday's grinds in there. Yeah retention is an issue due to the grinds from the previous batch ending up in the new batch. This is why every time you change the grind size or bag of beans you’re supposed to run some beans through at the new size: so the retained grinds are the same size as the new setting.
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Feb 16, 2023 02:38
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The reason I got that weird silicone plunger thing for my Niche is not because the retention matters from a drink perspective, but because it comes out when the grinder is knocked. I grind my beans, I give it a couple of taps until no more comes out, I do my stuff then put the cup back. Then an hour later if the machine is disturbed, a bit more grounds come out, and again, and it just ends up messy. Edit: I measured beans vs. grounds, 0.2g retained, which I suppose isn't much. Sir Sidney Poitier fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Feb 16, 2023 |
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Feb 16, 2023 08:17
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re espresso pressure, you'll find an enormous amount of the information you come across on coffee brewing is a mix of hearsay, junk science, and tradition (we've always done it that way!). i highly recommend playing around with the variables of roast, grind, temperature, pressure, and flow yourself to see how things work out if you have the time and inclination (and money) i lowered my pull pressure to 7bar back when i was playing around with lighter roasts (slower flow, longer extraction for a given grind) and got some of the most delicious shots i've ever had in my life
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Feb 16, 2023 09:26
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I wouldn't doubt that a lot of the OCD poo poo internet coffee nerds say to do has some impact on the coffee if you had a precise enough way to measure it. Most of it feels like chasing diminishing returns off a cliff though, and I wouldn't be able to taste the difference anyway.
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Feb 16, 2023 16:11
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Bandire posted:I wouldn't doubt that a lot of the OCD poo poo internet coffee nerds say to do has some impact on the coffee if you had a precise enough way to measure it. Most of it feels like chasing diminishing returns off a cliff though, and I wouldn't be able to taste the difference anyway. If there's one thing my coffee hobby has taught me is to just appreciate when I make a good cup of coffee and stop fiddling for an improvement I potentially can't perceive.
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Feb 16, 2023 18:43
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I've been making espresso when I feel like pursing the "hobby" and any other method when I just want a good cup of coffee. I don't care enough to fiddle with and refine pourover. The main difference for me is slight changes really do make a noticeable impact on the end result for espresso so trial and error is a lot of fun. I hate changing making a refinement for pourover and being unable to tell if I can even tell a difference.
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Feb 16, 2023 20:44
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Pilfered Pallbearers posted:This person should probably not be buying a Vario at their budget point, and frankly the vario isn’t typically recommended as an espresso only grinder at those price points either. I've had fantastic success with my Vario in tweaking between levels for different beans/roasts. I guess it comes down to the "do you want to sacrifice stepperlessness for versatility across coffee types" and for me it was a no-brainer that's paid off. The printed tamper I've got was printed tamper side facing the build plate, which was smooth, and it seems like it's flat and smooth. For me it was about width - the tamper that came with the Gaggia Classic was at least 2mm narrower than the baskets, so I had to kinda tamp around the edges. I'm also noticing that the tamper doesn't play well with the 21g basket I just got, so I'm definitely thinking at some point I'll need a tamper/basket combo that's calibrated for each other. For now it's done fine for me as a starter.
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Feb 16, 2023 21:16
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Bandire posted:Most of it feels like chasing diminishing returns off a cliff though, and I wouldn't be able to taste the difference anyway. my favourite example of this dumb poo poo was that one video where someone suggested faffing around with one of those needle tools in a pour over. because nothing very bad could ever come from mixing pointed metal with wet paper
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Feb 16, 2023 23:49
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ulvir posted:my favourite example of this dumb poo poo was that one video where someone suggested faffing around with one of those needle tools in a pour over. because nothing very bad could ever come from mixing pointed metal with wet paper I attempted this once during the bloom. Hard to avoid ripping the paper, made a mess, and no change to the end result. Welp
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Feb 17, 2023 02:50
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Would a Rancilio Silvia + DF64 w/ SSP burrs be a terrible choice for an espresso-at-home newbie? I do not want to spend a single cent more.
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Feb 17, 2023 03:10
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theHUNGERian posted:Would a Rancilio Silvia + DF64 w/ SSP burrs be a terrible choice for an espresso-at-home newbie? I do not want to spend a single cent more. That should be a good starting combo. Just keep in mind you will probably spend a few hundred more on accessories regardless of what you buy. In no particular order: a scale, quality tamper, tamp mat, WDT tool, dosing funnel, bottomless portafilter, knock box, precision basket. None of that stuff is required, but it can make your work flow easier and/or more consistent.
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Feb 17, 2023 05:33
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I wouldn’t bother with ssp burrs with that setup, and on that budget, but it’s fine otherwise
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Feb 17, 2023 05:41
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theHUNGERian posted:Would a Rancilio Silvia + DF64 w/ SSP burrs be a terrible choice for an espresso-at-home newbie? I do not want to spend a single cent more. I still enjoy the espresso my Silvia makes. It does not handle light roast beans super easily or well, but for standard medium to medium-dark espresso roasts it does really well. Pretty sure the DF64 is a decent grinder that should do what you need well. The standard tamper that comes with the Silvia is not good as it’s plastic, but that a gram scale and a knock box are really the only must haves to get started. All the other stuff suggested can be useful tools, but if you’re on a specific budget you don’t need it to get started.
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Feb 17, 2023 06:11
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Jhet posted:but that a gram scale and a knock box are really the only must haves to get started. How is a knock box a must?
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Feb 17, 2023 08:20
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Sir Sidney Poitier posted:How is a knock box a must? How else are you getting grounds out of your basket...?
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Feb 17, 2023 08:31
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I always just used a spoon over the bin, a knock box is just another awkward thing to clean. Managed quite happily for years without. If I was making a dozen a day I'd feel differently about it perhaps. Edit: Given how coffee innovations end up with a name, I call this "the SSP technique". Sir Sidney Poitier fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 08:42
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i just tap the portafilter with a wooden muddler over the trash can  ain't got the countertop space for a knock box lol
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Feb 17, 2023 08:52
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I got the IMS basket for my Breville/Sage portafilter - I did have to remove the plastic insert and loving hell it was disgusting behind there.
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Feb 17, 2023 14:54
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I'm thinking about upgrading soon from my Astra Pro to something with a rotary pump. After looking around, it seems like the options worth considering are the Bianca, Synchronika, Profitec 700, or Londinum R24. Anyone have or have input on any of these? I know the R24 is a lever vs the rest being pump machines, but I'm not sure that I appreciate the pros/cons there.
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Feb 17, 2023 15:04
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Jhet posted:... Silvia ... does not handle light roast beans super easily or well ... I actually prefer light/medium roasts. Is there a better machine? And can I use distilled water in the machine?
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Feb 17, 2023 15:07
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theHUNGERian posted:And can I use distilled water in the machine? No. Minerals are important, both because the water makes up an important component of the flavor and because they aid extraction. If you want to use distilled water, you have to add minerals back in using Third Wave Water packets or a diy solution.
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Feb 17, 2023 15:45
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Isn’t it also possible that prolonged use of distilled water can damage the internals of a machine? Either way, even if just for the sake of taste. Don’t use distilled water.
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Feb 17, 2023 16:00
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rath posted:I'm thinking about upgrading soon from my Astra Pro to something with a rotary pump. After looking around, it seems like the options worth considering are the Bianca, Synchronika, Profitec 700, or Londinum R24. Anyone have or have input on any of these? I know the R24 is a lever vs the rest being pump machines, but I'm not sure that I appreciate the pros/cons there. What’s the reason for the upgrade? Noise, or you’re planning to plumb it in? The lever machine means you are providing the pressure for primary extraction. You will be pulling on the lever at a controlled rate and force to create pressure and push water through the puck. I’m not familiar with the r24 but it looks like the pump is just there to fill the boiler and maybe preinfuse; it doesn’t participate in actually pulling the shot. The other machines are all dual boiler e61 machines. The bianca has flow control, which does a similar thing to the lever machine but using a valve instead of the force applied on the lever. The ECM and Profitek will be functionally identical to each other. I’ve posted before about why I think there are better options than e61 machines nowadays; you have experience with one so you can decide for yourself if those reasons matter to you. At your price point I would buy a linea micra instead of any of the machines you’ve listed, unless you really want to experiment with a lever in which case the r24 is probably a great choice. But maybe there’s something else about your use case i’m not appreciating.
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Feb 17, 2023 16:03
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theHUNGERian posted:I actually prefer light/medium roasts. Is there a better machine? You can install a PID and it can do them fine, but that’s going to break your budget by a more significant margin. I’m not sure there’s a machine in that price range that will handle light roast espresso well without modding. Maybe if you go manual? And everyone is right. You might not need a knock box, but I did if I wanted my countertop to stay in one piece as I’m not the only one using it.
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Feb 17, 2023 16:03
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rath posted:I'm thinking about upgrading soon from my Astra Pro to something with a rotary pump. After looking around, it seems like the options worth considering are the Bianca, Synchronika, Profitec 700, or Londinum R24. Anyone have or have input on any of these? I know the R24 is a lever vs the rest being pump machines, but I'm not sure that I appreciate the pros/cons there. I own a Bianca, and it’s a delight. Extremely capable machine, although it does cost a lot in the US. I bought mine in the UK for just £1800 brand new. I think it’s about ~$3500 in the US, which is a lot. Unless you specifically are looking for a lever experience, I think I’d probably get a Bianca.
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Feb 17, 2023 16:04
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the goon roasted coffee guy actually has some great stuff. i wish he didn't take away the vice jawn blue but i ordered four different kinds last time and got some bangers. it could just be a matter of taste, but he's got more consistently good varieties of beans than any other roaster i've purchased from. imo it's worth taking a chance on any light roasts he has. even when i get one i don't like i can still tell what people would like about it. cannot speak highly enough of the guy
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Feb 17, 2023 16:09
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hypnophant posted:What’s the reason for the upgrade? Noise, or you’re planning to plumb it in? Noise is the primary concern, but I may also plumb in if the next machine does it well (Bianca seems very good for this in particular). I am also interested in messing with pulling shots that aren't flat 9 bar since most of the coffees I get are on the lighter side of medium roast. I'll dig up your posts about e61s also, thanks! Gunder posted:I own a Bianca, and it’s a delight. Extremely capable machine, although it does cost a lot in the US. I bought mine in the UK for just £1800 brand new. I think it’s about ~$3500 in the US, which is a lot. I didn't include it in the original post, but I'm heavily leaning Bianca at the moment. It just feels kinda bad since one of it's upsides is that it *should* be cheaper than the other options I listed but in the US they're all roughly the same price.
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Feb 17, 2023 16:11
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