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K8.0 posted:China isn't going to attack Taiwan anytime soon. Y'all been listening to way too many right-wing pundits. The Chinese military is a complete loving joke that has no way to invade Taiwan, never mind cope with the goatse-dwarfing rear end stretching that would promptly commence courtesy of the US Navy. EDIT: And do note, this is different from the time in 2015, or 2021, when the same thing happened. BlankSystemDaemon fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Feb 16, 2023 |
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Feb 16, 2023 22:22
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Sure, except when they send people to work at ASML, a Dutch company which is the only company in the world that produces the machines capable of making chips with a process node under 20nm, and who then subsequently flee to China with intellectual property and set up a company there. Haha, again? Fake edit: Yup yesterday’s news
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Feb 16, 2023 22:32
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I don’t know why anyone is surprised by China doing that, they’ve been doing IP theft for literally decades. Huawei is built on the bones of Nortel and other telecom companies that china spied on back in the 90s.
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Feb 16, 2023 22:40
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Before the Russian invasion of Ukraine lots of people were saying something along the lines of "that would be an incredibly stupid idea", and it was and it is, but that doesn't stop authoritarian governments (or corporate execs, or investors for that matter) from huffing their own farts.
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Feb 16, 2023 22:49
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Cygni posted:china is not going to destroy taiwan, yall read too much dogshit yeah obviously, who said anything about destruction
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Feb 16, 2023 23:07
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TheFluff posted:Before the Russian invasion of Ukraine lots of people were saying something along the lines of "that would be an incredibly stupid idea", and it was and it is, but that doesn't stop authoritarian governments (or corporate execs, or investors for that matter) from huffing their own farts. One would hope the math has changed a bit after the failed Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russia's military went from being internationally perceived as a credible threat in conventional war to being clowned on by a motivated defender using donated prior-generation NATO surplus weapons and hobbyist drones dropping Soviet mortar rounds. They grossly underestimated the effect of international support and also had every deficiency in training, equipment, leadership and logistics exposed. Both of those would make the prospect less appealing, but yeah, can't count on maniacs and governments to not sometimes do the obviously dumbest thing.
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Feb 16, 2023 23:15
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Methanar posted:I just don't know how we got to the point that the overwhelming majority of the global semiconductor manufacturing base was built within artillery range of NK and China. This problem should have been obvious 20 years ago to the military. You need a somewhat corrupt but stable, easily influenced by the US, center-right government in place to push trough environmental concerns. Plus an endless army of highly educated workers & engineers willing to work grueling shifts in bunnysuits. If that doesn't sound like Taiwan/S. Korea/Philippines, and to a lesser degree Japan and Germany (remember that huge AMD plant in Saxony?) I don't know.
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Feb 16, 2023 23:17
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Counterfeit Intels are here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUi37kKdQIU 
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Feb 16, 2023 23:25
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Assepoester posted:Counterfeit Intels are here yup this has unfortunately been a thing for a while, either swapping off an IHS from a dead/damaged chip or polishing+re-lasering the IHS. Happens with AMD chips too. not even necessarily a working chip, or a chip of the proper socket type - you'll get an old AM3 chip or a haswell chip, not like the amazon warehouse guy can tell, every LGA115x since Sandy Bridge looks pretty much identical apart from the IHS label. amazon is a loving shitshow because they throw all the items with a shared UPC into a single bin (including Sold+Shipped by Amazon I think). actually I've had items with different UPCs too (ordered Arctic Freezer II 280 ARGB, got the older non-ARGB model). CPUs aren't quite the risk that say flash memory or designer handbags are, but, it's been a steady trickle of fraud over the last 5 years or so, I've seen numerous posts along these lines on r/intel and r/amd on reddit. Amazon really really doesn't give a poo poo and they don't even seem to bother tracking specific items by source so once it's in the bin there's no way to know which supplier/seller did it. also also, recently this has been happening on ebay with gpus too, they will re-mark the GPU die to make it look newer, or re-mark the memory ICs to cover up known-bad/recalled batches or the discoloration that comes from the heat of prolonged mining usage. So even if you open up a GPU and it looks spotless, it may have been powerwashed and the ICs repainted to cover up signs of use etc. I never thought the 2018 mining dump was all that great, considering the prices were already way below MSRP even before mining started. Prices really only dumped about 30% below the pre-mining prices, I bought a 480 4GB used for $125 before mining and a 8GB very lightly used for $150, prices were already in the toilet before mining and it didn't really push them all that much lower. And people pushed the "mining cards are basically good as new! miners all take super good care of their cards, maybe needs a new fan at most!" angle super hard too, like, maybe that's true and maybe it's not, miners are scumbags and don't have any problem leaving someone else holding the bag if it means not taking a loss on that card. It just is not a good deal overall and we'd have been better off with strict mining limiters to keep miners from inflating prices in the first place. But the miners tooted the "don't step on muh freedomz" and "just mine to make up the difference!" and "but the cards are gonna be super cheap and basically as good as new!" horns real hard, those LTT videos sponsored by nicehash were loving embarrassing even at the time and he should feel bad (but he sleeps on a mattress made of money, he don't care). sounds like a crazy amount of effort just to knock off one CPU or one GPU but the counterfeit chip business is big business and they'll do it for a 10c IC let alone a high-end CPU. Sometimes they'll be whole separate ICs (same functionality but different implementation), sometimes they'll be lower-end parts relabeled as higher-end ones (label a commercial-tier part as automotive or aerospace tier), sometimes they'll be salvaged ones (similar to the desoldered/resoldered chipsets on those cheap chinese X79/X99 motherboards) which of course runs a risk of damage or exceeding lifespan, etc. it is turning into a massive problem and honestly it's been something that's been bumping along for as long as I've been paying attention, I know I was hearing about this at least in 2007 so 15+ years. And these counterfeit parts already did easily make their way into the supply chain from reputable suppliers, once they end up at Mouser or Digikey or whatever, a capacitor is a capacitor, they have no idea which one came from where, and the supplier who sent it to them might well have thought it was legit too and it was slipped in somewhere else. Could be a factory running ghost shifts even, like it might have come from the actual factory and the real parts got stolen and sold. It's an absolute plague on the industry and I'd assume it only got worse during COVID. everyone was screaming for any supply they could get, and if somebody says they can get you 10k ICs, probably nobody involved was too inclined to ask too many questions about where they were coming from. Yeah, could be recycled from scrapped electronics, you want 'em or not? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7epnv43jGV8 Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 00:02
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priznat posted:I don’t know why anyone is surprised by China doing that, they’ve been doing IP theft for literally decades. Huawei is built on the bones of Nortel and other telecom companies that china spied on back in the 90s.
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Feb 17, 2023 01:16
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I wouldn't say I'm surprised, because as you point out they've been doing it for decades - but they're usually not that repeatedly successful against the same target, least of all one that's an actual monopoly. Yeah it’s baffling that ASML keeps getting got, true charlie brown kicking the football poo poo. Almost to the point that they have some secret back channel agreement..
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Feb 17, 2023 01:54
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Cygni posted:china is not going to destroy taiwan, yall read too much dogshit Heard plenty of people say the same about Russia/Ukraine too. China is absolutely intent on taking Taiwan, they have been banging on about it for years. It's not just something that's for domestic consumption, it is an actual CCP ambition and part of their core identity just like Putin's revanchism has been. People were convinced China would leave Hong Kong alone to its autonomy which was agreed with the British, and that's all up in smoke now. May not be tomorrow, may not even be this decade. But a military attempt will happen someday it is just a matter of when not if.
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Feb 17, 2023 06:00
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Methanar posted:I just don't know how we got to the point that the overwhelming majority of the global semiconductor manufacturing base was built within artillery range of NK and China. This problem should have been obvious 20 years ago to the military. Globalization of trade and the end of the Bretton-Woods system meant that a lot of things are only ever built in specific concentrated regions and then shipped-out to the rest of the world. sauer kraut posted:You need a somewhat corrupt but stable, easily influenced by the US, center-right government in place to push trough environmental concerns. yeah, this is also true - Japan (and Germany) were selected by the US setting-up the post-war economic order to be middle-tier manufactories for their respective regions of the world - they sell to the rest of Southeast Asia / Southern Europe, and America recycles and absorbs the surpluses while they shift to financialization. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 06:32
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Twerk from Home posted:It sounded like OP was talking about servers and workstations, which I interpreted as using Xeon E5 platform chips. Compared to desktop stuff, these will absolutely use more power at idle, to the point where I'm not even sure if Sandy Bridge Xeons are worth the power to have turned on. A higher-end Sandy Bridge Xeon was going on Ebay for under $100 7 years ago. That's how old these are: https://www.servethehome.com/intel-xeon-e5-2670-v1-prices-dropping-now-around-100/ There's a new N95 based NUC thingie. Not many reviews (outside of amazon) but should be similar to the N100 maybe with slightly better multi core and GPU due to higher TDP and more EUs. https://www.amazon.com/KAMRUI-GK3-E...ps%2C169&sr=8-3
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Feb 17, 2023 10:05
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I recently got a new 13700K build and it's a little annoying that the CPU fan (Noctua NH-D15) gets loud very quickly even when the CPU is under load for even a little bit, like loading an application for 5 seconds, when the temperature goes up to 60C (140F) or something. Knowing nothing about these things, I found out that there's a tool that came with my Asus mobo that lets me set the fan curve manually, which helps a lot. With that in mind: would it be harmful for the CPU to run at, say, 75C (167F) for long periods when it's T_Junction is 100C (212F)?
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Feb 17, 2023 18:21
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75 is fine. I'd be aggressive to keep it under 80C, but even then I wouldn't sweat it a ton if it hangs out up there for a while. I am assuming this is mostly home use so "Long Periods" mean a couple hours playing games? Its a bit different if you're talking about long periods being 100s of hours in a rack.
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Feb 17, 2023 18:38
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Lockback posted:75 is fine. I'd be aggressive to keep it under 80C, but even then I wouldn't sweat it a ton if it hangs out up there for a while. I am assuming this is mostly home use so "Long Periods" mean a couple hours playing games? Its a bit different if you're talking about long periods being 100s of hours in a rack. Yes, exactly, a couple hours of gaming per stretch at the very most. So it seems my gut feeling was right. Thanks a bunch!
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Feb 17, 2023 19:10
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You will not be harming the chip up until the max temperature. You could lose some performance if it's hot, though.
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Feb 17, 2023 19:18
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LRADIKAL posted:You will not be harming the chip up until the max temperature. You could lose some performance if it's hot, though. I thought that a hot CPU wouldn't lose any performance until you hit the point where thermal throttling happens, right? The real problem is that the hotter a processor is, the leakier it gets, which makes it use even more power at a given clock and get even hotter, so you run get pushed towards that throttling temperature. I wouldn't expect a processor that's at 60C to be any faster than one that's 80C, what mechanism would there be for that?
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Feb 17, 2023 19:20
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Twerk from Home posted:I thought that a hot CPU wouldn't lose any performance until you hit the point where thermal throttling happens, right? The real problem is that the hotter a processor is, the leakier it gets, which makes it use even more power at a given clock and get even hotter, so you run get pushed towards that throttling temperature. On a processor from 1993 without any kind of P-states or power monitoring, that would be true. It runs at a fixed speed until it catches fire. On a modern processor with per core opportunistic clock boosts, keeping the silicon super cool can allow it to boost higher, with some rapidly diminishing returns as you go from a good air cooler to a 360mm CLC setup. Like an extra 50 Mhz tier diminished returns. The exact mechanism is the processor going 'I can use up to 1.4v, as long as I don't go over 20w per core AND I don't go over 65C tDie. I can use 1.35 volts between 65 and 72C, 1.3 volts between 72 and 75C and 1.22 volts above that.' The extra voltage lets you bump the clockspeed up higher, but past a certain point, every 25Mhz costs more and more exorbitant amounts of power.
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Feb 17, 2023 20:07
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:On a modern processor with per core opportunistic clock boosts, keeping the silicon super cool can allow it to boost higher, As a really good (if very atypical) example of this, I have a machine in my garage which runs 24/7. The CPU is a Ryzen 5950X running in Eco Mode (65W), with a Noctua C14S, in a Fractal Pop Air case. Last night it was down around 19degF and my garage was right at freezing. This morning that CPU was running just shy of 4GHz all-core with a Tctl of 53C. In the moment it had effectively infinite thermal overhead and was going as balls-out fast as the wattage limits would allow. Edit: currently, the ambient temp has warmed up a bit and the workload has shifted to 16 threads loaded instead of 32, and it is now running at 3GHz with Tctl of 67C.
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Feb 17, 2023 20:32
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all this talk reminds me of the good old days of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf0VuRG7MN4&t=57s
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Feb 17, 2023 21:02
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Twerk from Home posted:I thought that a hot CPU wouldn't lose any performance until you hit the point where thermal throttling happens, right? The real problem is that the hotter a processor is, the leakier it gets, which makes it use even more power at a given clock and get even hotter, so you run get pushed towards that throttling temperature. Actually, I misspoke. These chips are designed to run at max 24/7. You will certainly lose performance, and may decrease the lifespan of the chip. Something on the made up order of 5 years from 10 years.
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Feb 17, 2023 21:05
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LRADIKAL posted:Actually, I misspoke. These chips are designed to run at max 24/7. You will certainly lose performance, and may decrease the lifespan of the chip. Something on the made up order of 5 years from 10 years. The difference between 80C tDie and 40C tDie is something like a 20x improvement in life for IGBTs used in power switchgear. So it goes from 'will probably never break while still useful' to 'will probably never break in your grandchild's lifetime'. Which is kinda useless?
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Feb 17, 2023 21:10
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Methylethylaldehyde posted:The exact mechanism is the processor going 'I can use up to 1.4v, as long as I don't go over 20w per core AND I don't go over 65C tDie. I can use 1.35 volts between 65 and 72C, 1.3 volts between 72 and 75C and 1.22 volts above that.' The extra voltage lets you bump the clockspeed up higher, but past a certain point, every 25Mhz costs more and more exorbitant amounts of power. I thought 85C was a magic number for the 13 series at which it'll really start jumping through hoops to clock itself down, though I may be mistaken. Thats why I suggested using that as a "tell the fans go nuts if it means keeping it under this". The 13 series runs hot though, I think it can get above 100C if you let it. Intel suggest keeping it under 80C but honestly without tampering with the thing you won't meaningfully reduce its life. Its honestly probably a bigger question about your thermal paste and when you may need to repaste vs hurting the CPU.
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Feb 17, 2023 21:22
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Lockback posted:I thought 85C was a magic number for the 13 series at which it'll really start jumping through hoops to clock itself down, though I may be mistaken. Thats why I suggested using that as a "tell the fans go nuts if it means keeping it under this". The 13 series runs hot though, I think it can get above 100C if you let it. I made the entire volts/temp curve up, but the basics of how modern boost algos work is there. More volts == more speed == more heat, so the colder the silicon, the harder it'll push itself.
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Feb 17, 2023 21:24
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WhyteRyce posted:all this talk reminds me of the good old days of this video This is your brain.. ON DRUGS
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Feb 17, 2023 22:17
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Everyone knows that silicon based lifeforms are smarter in a cold environment. Never lock a troll in an ice cellar is what my gran always said.
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Feb 17, 2023 22:42
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Sorry to ask sort of the same question again, but are the safe temperatures the same for Nvidia GPUs? Because mine completely flips out once it hits 50C. Is 70/75C a safe gaming temperature here as well?
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Feb 17, 2023 23:51
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busfahrer posted:Sorry to ask sort of the same question again, but are the safe temperatures the same for Nvidia GPUs? Because mine completely flips out once it hits 50C. Is 70/75C a safe gaming temperature here as well? This varies heavily by generation. Most GPUs increase core clocks until a certain temperature is hit. That’s often in in the 80s.
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Feb 17, 2023 23:53
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WhyteRyce posted:all this talk reminds me of the good old days of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssL1DA_K0sI
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Feb 18, 2023 00:31
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busfahrer posted:Sorry to ask sort of the same question again, but are the safe temperatures the same for Nvidia GPUs? Because mine completely flips out once it hits 50C. Is 70/75C a safe gaming temperature here as well? What do you mean flips out? You mean the fans? And yes, Typically for Nvidia the are fine between 75-85, past 85 they start to throttle (and GPU throttling tends to be more aggressive, so I'd try to keep it under 80C if you can). Again, this depends on the generation and which specific card.
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Feb 18, 2023 02:45
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canyoneer posted:10 years here too. It's the only place I've worked since graduation. Self posting, I found my next thing. Going into the thrilling world of self-employment, made possible by a pile of severance cash and health insurance continuity. I'm losing a lot of unvested RSU grants, but at current share prices they're literally worth less than half of what they were at grant date  I really feel for all my friends left behind. SO many of them have said they would have volunteered to leave if they knew the pay cut stuff was coming. Everyone in my group (non-technical roles with generic corporate biz analyst drone skills) has been there for 10 to 25 years and have had rewarding careers, and it's a shame that they're stuck in a dying company. We made career investments in the wrong company. Now the next question is if I use the employee discount in the last days of my employment to order a new CPU, GPU, or both. 🤔
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Feb 18, 2023 17:52
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busfahrer posted:I recently got a new 13700K build and it's a little annoying that the CPU fan (Noctua NH-D15) gets loud very quickly even when the CPU is under load for even a little bit, like loading an application for 5 seconds, when the temperature goes up to 60C (140F) or something. Tbh I’m waiting for both cpus and gpus to come with aios water coolers as the standard, it’s a way for manufacturers to justify higher prices and masks their cooling problems
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Feb 18, 2023 19:38
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canyoneer posted:Self posting, I found my next thing. Going into the thrilling world of self-employment, made possible by a pile of severance cash and health insurance continuity. I'm losing a lot of unvested RSU grants, but at current share prices they're literally worth less than half of what they were at grant date Don’t buy an Intel GPU.
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Feb 18, 2023 20:19
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Disagree, I'm happy with my Arc750. It's punching above its weight and gently caress the current NV pricing.
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Feb 18, 2023 21:14
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Beef posted:Disagree, I'm happy with my Arc750. It's punching above its weight and gently caress the current NV pricing. Isn't this going to depend on the games you play and features you're using? And isn't a GPU only going to be as good as the drivers when new games come out and is Intel really going to stay committed to GPUs after all those cuts?
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Feb 18, 2023 21:17
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I've tried some older and newer games and have only encountered one graphical glitch to date (bannerlord, so not sure it's related to the drivers). Nothing worth paying the 200bux premium over for the 3060. For now at least they are still steaming ahead with driver and arc control updates. I see regular somewhat weekly game-ready driver releases a week for upcoming games.
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Feb 18, 2023 22:20
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https://www.12news.com/article/news...39-aa2df7f6177f
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Feb 18, 2023 22:28
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Beef posted:Disagree, I'm happy with my Arc750. It's punching above its weight and gently caress the current NV pricing. I mean nothing wrong with an arc for budget building. But considering the guy worked at Intel, I’m sure he’s targeting a little higher. Easy to take some of the discounted money from the CPU and apply it to something top notch from last gen/this gen depending on what the end goal is
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